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Who wins

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Who wins

I think Adam.

team could def take him if he didn't use his speed really well. they could still take him. i'd give them a majority i think.

Originally posted by leonidas
team could def take him if he didn't use his speed really well. they could still take him. i'd give them a majority i think.

How can they take him if he uses his speed well?

Originally posted by Surtur
How can they take him if he uses his speed well?

Shame there's no water in a featureless environment. If they got him under the surface, his speed would be drastically reduced as an advantage.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Shame there's no water in a featureless environment. If they got him under the surface, his speed would be drastically reduced as an advantage.

Unless the environment was 100% water couldn't he just use his speed to prevent himself from being put underwater?

Originally posted by Surtur
Unless the environment was 100% water couldn't he just use his speed to prevent himself from being put underwater?

If he used it smartly, sure.

arthur and namor are not slow, by any stretch of the imagination. he is faster, but he'd still make it a slugfest in character. even if he uses his speed smartly, i'm not sure it's enough to overwhelm them completely. bigger issue is that arthur can't fly. that would make it easy to separate them. arthur does have the trident though i guess, so that could def be a difference maker.

i dunno, this is a tough call.

In character Adam doesnt really use his speed very often in battle.
His arrogance makes him want to demonstrate his sheer dominance and superiority, which usually relates to him tanking everything thrown at him to show that their attacks are meaningless. For example in WWIII he stands there and tanks the blows off Hourman (who's nowhere near as fast as Arthur or Namor) that he should have been able to casually dodge.

Arthur and Namor both have the durability to take what BA van dish out and make a fight of it. Together they should take a slight majority
.

Originally posted by leonidas
arthur and namor are not slow, by any stretch of the imagination. he is faster, but he'd still make it a slugfest in character. even if he uses his speed smartly, i'm not sure it's enough to overwhelm them completely. bigger issue is that arthur can't fly. that would make it easy to separate them. arthur does have the trident though i guess, so that could def be a difference maker.

i dunno, this is a tough call.

I'm of the notion that BA is significantly above the two. He can literally kill each in little time if he was bloodlusted. Namor, is still on average, around Things level, perhaps a little higher.

But speed makes this a stomp.

Originally posted by beatboks
In character Adam doesnt really use his speed very often in battle.
His arrogance makes him want to demonstrate his sheer dominance and superiority, which usually relates to him tanking everything thrown at him to show that their attacks are meaningless. For example in WWIII he stands there and tanks the blows off Hourman (who's nowhere near as fast as Arthur or Namor) that he should have been able to casually dodge.

Arthur and Namor both have the durability to take what BA van dish out and make a fight of it. Together they should take a slight majority
. Many confuse the term, "in character ". It's not based off what a character doesn't do but why they don't do it. This is because many times a character doesn't do something because of plot (not character).
BA is never against using his speed. His character isn't to purposely choose to not use speed when he know he can. He's not an idiot or prideful to make a fair fight.
Writer's don't write a character using speed at times because of the plot in the story. There is no plot here.

Originally posted by h1a8
Many confuse the term, "in character ". It's not based off what a character doesn't do but why they don't do it. This is because many times a character doesn't do something because of plot (not character).
BA is never against using his speed. His character isn't to purposely choose to not use speed when he know he can. He's not an idiot or prideful to make a fair fight.
Writer's don't write a character using speed at times because of the plot in the story. There is no plot here.

Sorry but you are completely and utterly wrong.
BA almost never uses his speed and it isnt for plot. It started from his very first appearance post COIE. When he first faced the marvel family. He was easily faster than all of then (as they are weakened from shared power and he isnt) and yet heballowed them yo blitz him. He still tanked all attacks and powered thru them to show his superiority. He showed throughoutnthe story his utterni difference to the Marvel family as though they wete insignificant. That is a characyer trait not a llot device. It has character driven reasons furtjlher established in his time in ancient Egypt and the death of his family and during Bkack reign. It's literally part of the whole reason he is the hard line anti hero character he is.

Originally posted by beatboks
Sorry but you are completely and utterly wrong.
BA almost never uses his speed and it isnt for plot. It started from his very first appearance post COIE. When he first faced the marvel family. He was easily faster than all of then (as they are weakened from shared power and he isnt) and yet heballowed them yo blitz him. He still tanked all attacks and powered thru them to show his superiority. He showed throughoutnthe story his utterni difference to the Marvel family as though they wete insignificant. That is a characyer trait not a llot device. It has character driven reasons furtjlher established in his time in ancient Egypt and the death of his family and during Bkack reign. It's literally part of the whole reason he is the hard line anti hero character he is. You must ask yourself why doesn't he use speed. If it is because he CHOSE NOT TO then, you are right, it's "in character ".
If it is because of the plot then you have no basis.

Him purposely getting hit to show his superiority is valid reasoning. But the flaw is that if he finds out (or already believes) that being attacked would cause him to be greatly affected and possibly lose then he's going to use speed.
BA would use speed if he feels it is necessary. You are right, he has no reason to use speed on inferior opponents. But he has before though.

Namor and Arthur are prime beasts ...many ways of attack ranging from flight for one, strength and speed for both, and telepathy for the other.

Thing is that Black Adam is simply at another level. He is someone who can step up to the likes of Superman and Ultraman, and while he'd lose he'd still make a good showing of it (even if he ends up with a broken jaw).

BA vs N/AM would be similar to a male lion versus two hyena. It would be an interesting fight to watch, but the end would be pre-written.

Originally posted by beatboks
Sorry but you are completely and utterly wrong.
BA almost never uses his speed and it isnt for plot. It started from his very first appearance post COIE. When he first faced the marvel family. He was easily faster than all of then (as they are weakened from shared power and he isnt) and yet heballowed them yo blitz him. He still tanked all attacks and powered thru them to show his superiority. He showed throughoutnthe story his utterni difference to the Marvel family as though they wete insignificant. That is a characyer trait not a llot device. It has character driven reasons furtjlher established in his time in ancient Egypt and the death of his family and during Bkack reign. It's literally part of the whole reason he is the hard line anti hero character he is.

This

Under water I would side with the team, above not so much.

Well, Namor is almost a non-factor Thor and Wonderman have knocked him out. Adam will do the same but faster, AM has the Trident and will put up a fight but... I can't see them winning at all.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Well, Namor is almost a non-factor Thor and Wonderman have knocked him out. Adam will do the same but faster, AM has the Trident and will put up a fight but... I can't see them winning at all. *cough*lowballing*cough*

Originally posted by deathslash
*cough*lowballing*cough*

So, they haven't knocked him out? Apart from regularly beating up Iron Man and Ben Grimm, and hanging in there with his "friend" old jade jaws, show me Namor hanging with a low herald.

Originally posted by beatboks
Sorry but you are completely and utterly wrong.
BA almost never uses his speed and it isnt for plot. It started from his very first appearance post COIE. When he first faced the marvel family. He was easily faster than all of then (as they are weakened from shared power and he isnt) and yet heballowed them yo blitz him. He still tanked all attacks and powered thru them to show his superiority. He showed throughoutnthe story his utterni difference to the Marvel family as though they wete insignificant. That is a characyer trait not a llot device. It has character driven reasons furtjlher established in his time in ancient Egypt and the death of his family and during Bkack reign. It's literally part of the whole reason he is the hard line anti hero character he is.

So just to be clear: if Black Adam realizes he will lose unless he uses his speed here...what do you feel he then does?

For such a realization to never occur would mean that one second BA will be all "pshh, speed is for lesser men" and then the next second he'll be KO'ed or dead.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
So, they haven't knocked him out? Apart from regularly beating up Iron Man and Ben Grimm, and hanging in there with his "friend" old jade jaws, show me Namor hanging with a low herald.

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149643/5560744-1.jpg

https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149643/5560745-2.jpg

and, despite the rain that had only just started, namor was dehydrated when he fought thor. the next page says it clear as day. you're also missing context for the wm fight.

namor's also one of the very few heroes in marvel who has actually scored a clean, ko win vs the hulk. not sure why you wouldn't think IM is a great win. IM has beaten nearly everyone in marvel at one time or another. he's done very well against hercules in the past on a couple occasions, beaten up the super skrull, absolutely dominated rulk and had good showings against several others including a lengthy draw against black bolt.

namor is among the top bricks in marvel, when he isn't in need of water.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Well, Namor is almost a non-factor Thor and Wonderman have knocked him out.
There's actually context behind both those loses. Against Simon, he actually had Simon dead to rights till Whizzer stepped in. Simon was out of the fight long enough for Whizzer and Namor to have an entire conversation! Also keep in mind Namor was DYING and Simon attacked him when he wasn't paying attention. Sucker punching a dying man is crap way to win a fight. Here it is in context :
Originally posted by zopzop
He kind of did though, this is what happened prior to the end :
https://s1.postimg.org/79wcje4sb/image.jpg https://s1.postimg.org/4h34zd4fv/image.jpg https://s1.postimg.org/8rhsuy9iz/image.jpg https://s1.postimg.org/6bfzh3rgb/image.jpg
Notice, Namor knocked Simon out the fight long enough to be distracted and have an entire conversation with Whizzer before Simon sucker attacked him with his back turned.

People are also forgetting, Namor was dying and needed Serum from Dr Doom to keep him alive (the suit Reed designed was wrecked by Doom) :
https://s17.postimg.org/4gsoq7b8r/image.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/j19rl167f/image.jpg https://s12.postimg.org/wc380dufd/image.jpg

So Simon sucker attacked a dying Namor.

Against Thor, there's context there too. Namor was away from the ocean for so long he was so weak even the rain couldn't replenish him :
https://s2.postimg.org/sdnp7jk51/image.jpg

yep.

I have both those comics and is anything I said untrue? In Invaders Thor knocked him out swiftly, and the power of Wonderman was enough to do the job handily. Adam will be hitting harder and faster... I understand Namor is a fan fave for many, tbh I've never got why people like him, ultimate Namor, on the other hand, was excellent. I think you guys are giving him undue credit, as for the Hulk most characters have outliers, e.g. Spiderman and Firelord, Black Panther and the Surfer. The Hulk is simply Namor's.

not sure how you can suggest that when he's fought thor very well since that encounter. compare like opponents between him and namor. hulk has decimated simon, hercules almost killed him. it took all he had to beat abomination in a brutal fight while namor handled him easily. the difference between simon and namor is minute, to say the least. current arthur is as strong as he is and has his trident. arthur alone would give current adam a hell of a fight, like he did wonder woman. the 2 combined, can certainly take him down.

Originally posted by leonidas
not sure how you can suggest that when he's fought thor very well since that encounter. compare like opponents between him and namor. hulk has decimated simon, hercules almost killed him. it took all he had to beat abomination in a brutal fight while namor handled him easily. the difference between simon and namor is minute, to say the least. current arthur is as strong as he is and has his trident. arthur alone would give current adam a hell of a fight, like he did wonder woman. the 2 combined, can certainly take him down.

Speed kills.
And BA could murder each if he was bloodlusted.

Originally posted by leonidas
not sure how you can suggest that when he's fought thor very well since that encounter. compare like opponents between him and namor. hulk has decimated simon, hercules almost killed him. it took all he had to beat abomination in a brutal fight while namor handled him easily. the difference between simon and namor is minute, to say the least. current arthur is as strong as he is and has his trident. arthur alone would give current adam a hell of a fight, like he did wonder woman. the 2 combined, can certainly take him down. Suggest what? We are talking about a guy who struggled with Luke Cage in water aren't we? Namor is a jobber, Adam isn't.

and so long as we're looking at all showings, ben wrecked simon, easily. is he a jobber too? and for a while there, everyone struggled with cage.

how about you list some of current adam's impressive feats....? or better, show some scans. i'd love to see them.

Ben wrecked Simon? When?

Originally posted by h1a8
Ben wrecked Simon? When?
He did.

Now for the context behind the ownage : Xemu had mindcontrolled Simon and told him to beat Thing. Simon couldn't do it and Thing was getting the upper hand so Xemu had to jump in and help.

They fought a second time, once again Simon was mindcontrolled BUT Thing was holding back and didn't want to hurt Simon too badly :

Full fight here

This like asking

Thor vs Namor and Aquaman, or Silver Surfer vs Namor and Aquaman

Originally posted by Board Walker
This like asking

Thor vs Namor and Aquaman, or Silver Surfer vs Namor and Aquaman

Pretty much

Originally posted by leonidas
and so long as we're looking at all showings, ben wrecked simon, easily. is he a jobber too? and for a while there, everyone struggled with cage.

how about you list some of current adam's impressive feats....? or better, show some scans. i'd love to see them.

I again have the comics, comics and not scans.

Suggest what? We are talking about a guy who struggled with Luke Cage in water aren't we? Namor is a jobber, Adam isn't.

Adam is a peer of Superman... everything else is filler, except Namor being a jobber. Which he is.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Fight Two. Hulk is under the control of the Puppet Master. Namor KO's him eventually via whirlpool. TTA #100
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100b.jpg
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http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100o.jpg

Round 3. For this fight Hulk has been given a drug that allows him to function underwater like an Atlantean. Namor wins by decisive KO. IH #118
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118b.jpg
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http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118j.jpg
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http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118l.jpg

Round 4. This time it's on land. This one doesn't go to a conclusion, but the two look pretty even. Defenders #52
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Defenders052a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Defenders052b.jpg
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Namor makes up for it here though, as he utterly and completely wrecks Iron Man. Illuminati One-Shot
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/IlluminatiOne-Shota.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/IlluminatiOne-Shotb.jpg
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http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/IlluminatiOne-Shote.jpg

For this fight, Namor is in possession of the Cosmic Cube so he can control the battle-field. However, he is explicitly not amping his physical stats until the end when he wishes to find out who is stronger when both are at full strength. This issue suggests that Namor is stronger underwater, Herc is stronger on land, and when both are at full capacity they are dead even. Avengers #40
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/avengers040c.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/avengers040d.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/avengers040e.jpg

Another stalemate with neither displaying a strength edge. Avengers #262
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Avengers262a.jpg
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Namor takes some big shots from the assembled Avengers before he moves on to a one-on-one with Hercules. The two combatant's dialogue seems to suggest that Namor is the stronger of the two underwater. He then goes on to punk Crystal. Namor #58
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/NamorTheSub-Mariner58a.jpg
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Their most recent fight. Not much to go on, Hercules seems to have a bit of an edge on land but Namor seems confident he will be the stronger of the two when in the water. Incredible Hercules #122
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/IncredibleHercules122a.jpg
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Anybody who has been said to be an equal of Immortal Hercules is ****ing stronger than Thing. Its not even questionable. Originally posted by abhilegend
Namor has to fight a blood-lusted Thor here and manages a stalemate before the fight is interrupted. Namor seems dominant when the fight briefly goes underwater. Atlantis Rising #1
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/AtlantisRising01a.jpg
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We've seen a bloodlusted Thor KILL Thing with one hammer shot. Here he suckers Namor and Namor still gains upper hand underwater.

Black Bolt

Namor fights Black Bolt to a stand-still on land. FF #402
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/FantasticFour402a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/FantasticFour402b.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/FantasticFour402c.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/FantasticFour402d.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/FantasticFour402e.jpg


The Sentry

This is the only true one-on-one fight they have had, though they mixed it up a bit in Avengers/Invaders (check "The Avengers" section below). The Avenging Son doesn't make much offensive head-way but Sentry is in a pretty nutty mood and the writer seemed to really respect him so Namor taking this brutal pounding and being more or less completely unharmed is a good showing. X-Men Exodus
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/X-MenExodusa.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/X-MenExodusb.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/X-MenExodusc.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/X-MenExodusd.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/X-MenExoduse.jpg


The Avengers

Here are Namor's contributions to the group fight in Avengers/Invaders. He exchanges blows pretty evenly with Sentry (who mysteriously disappears half way through the fight) and then man-handles Wonder Man and Ares completely. Avengers/Invaders #2
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/AvengersInvaders02a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/AvengersInvaders02b.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/AvengersInvaders02c.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/AvengersInvaders02d.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/AvengersInvaders02e.jpg


The Thunderbolts

Another group fight here. Namor's contributions include punching out Radioactive Man and utterly destroying Penance. Avengers/Invaders #1
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/AvengersInvaders01a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/AvengersInvaders01b.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/AvengersInvaders01c.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/AvengersInvaders01d.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/AvengersInvaders01e.jpg



He manhandled Simon and Ares like they were his bitches. Thing wishes he was as strong as Namor.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, if you really want to compare fight between Simon and Namor, compare these two scenes.

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18728836_NamorTheSub-Mariner59a.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18728837_NamorTheSub-Mariner59b.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18728838_NamorTheSub-Mariner59c.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18728839_NamorTheSub-Mariner59d.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18728840_NamorTheSub-Mariner59e.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18728841_NamorTheSub-Mariner59f.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18728842_NamorTheSub-Mariner59g.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18728843_NamorTheSub-Mariner59h.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18728844_NamorTheSub-Mariner59i.jpg


Mind you, this is just seconds after he fought a whole team of avengers including Hercules.

Simon vs Tyrannus controlled Abomination. This is the strongest version of Simon who overpowered Thor in a grappling contest.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35915/787596-vs_abom1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35915/787597-vs_abom2.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35915/787598-vs_abom3.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35915/787599-vs_abom4.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35915/787600-vs_abom5.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35915/787601-vs_abom6.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35915/787603-vs_abom7.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35915/787604-vs_abom8.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35915/787605-vs_abom9.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35915/787606-vs_abom10.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35915/787607-vs_abom11.jpg

Well just say that Abomination was merciful and didn't gave Simon a wedgie.

Originally posted by Surtur
So just to be clear: if Black Adam realizes he will lose unless he uses his speed here...what do you feel he then does?

For such a realization to never occur would mean that one second BA will be all "pshh, speed is for lesser men" and then the next second he'll be KO'ed or dead.

I'll demonstrate what I mean

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4738779-nuke+belts+ba+1.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4738780-nuke+belts+ba+2.jpg

Here we see BA see Atom Smashers fist coming at him and he makes no attempt to dodge despite his vastly greater speed. He would know that AS is about an 80 tonner and think he could take it. He was surprised just how powerful AS's strike was because AS has the power to alter his mass. He has the power to make his fist have less mass to wind up, use his 80 tonne strength to throw it and then change it back to a vastly greater mass when striking. BA was not worried about Atom Smasher at all so did'nt dodge.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4738788-still+alters+mass.+in+jsa+.jpg

Here on the other hand he clearly monitors how AS uses his mass because he knows what Al Can do with it. because he knows how devastating Atom Smashers punches can be despite have strength vastly below him he monitors his mass changes. I'd wager if AS tried to strike him having once been knocked though the JSA brownstones roof and across a city block by one he would not just let that punch hit him.

obviously if it got to a point where BA knew he would loose without the use of speed he would use it. But is it going to be that cut and dried. Namor has had good fights with Hulk and Thor before. I doubt in any of those fights those two thought Namor was going to be as much a problem as he was. Arthur has had decent fights with Dianna and others not far behind also. I just think they could make it close enough to take a slight majority because their fight would be such that I don't think Adam would ever see himself in danger.

Namor has been defeated both on land and underwater by porpoises and dolphins, though. He's even been defeated by the Thing underwater quite recently.

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/bbsimg/Subby/Submariner01_zps6e291c00.jpg
http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae129/bbsimg/Subby/Submariner02_zps7ca9a1f6.jpg

http://l7world.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Fixed-Fights-Thing-VS-Namor.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/square_small/0/4/57326-10725-90321-1-flipper.jpg

In all seriousness though, even with the team I still think BA can take this on land if he goes all out, especially using his full speed - and I think he will if he realizes he's going to get a tough fight out of these two. Though BA doesn't quite seem what he used to be since the reboot.

There was a time when I would have said he beats them underwater too, though with more difficulty. But again, these days the difference between Superman tier characters and those underneath them seems less than what it was. I guess they might have a chance underwater.

Originally posted by beatboks
He was surprised just how powerful AS's strike was because AS has the power to alter his mass. He has the power to make his fist have less mass to wind up, use his 80 tonne strength to throw it and then change it back to a vastly greater mass when striking.Off topic, that technique doesn't make a great deal of sense.

preboot, i'd say adam would beat them as well--land or sea most likely. post reboot? he isn't even CLOSE to a peer of superman, not if supes is trying at all. i still think the team takes it more often than not, unless namor is dehydrated. /shrg

Originally posted by basilisk


Off topic, that technique doesn't make a great deal of sense.

It does if you understand basic physics

Force = mass x acceleration

Since AS can lift 80 tonnes he can move his arm if he makes it weigh 100 grams can get to a velocity of 8000m/s

In an impact the change in force x change time = mass x change in velocity

So if he makes that arm weigh say 500 kg on impact while he strikes at 8000m/s that makes it the equivilwnt od the blow a 400 tonner can produce since a fist strikes and changes velocity ina second.

There's nothing to say he couldnt make his arm weigh 10 grams not 100 and make it 4000 tonner blow or heavier than 500kg on impact. He can after all reduce his density to become completely intangible or increase it to become impervious

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
I again have the comics, comics and not scans.

Suggest what? We are talking about a guy who struggled with Luke Cage in water aren't we? Namor is a jobber, Adam isn't.

Adam is a peer of Superman... everything else is filler, except Namor being a jobber. Which he is.

namor's a jobber? adam is a peer of superman? and the actual proof that you are wrong is....filler?



ok, took me a couple posts to realize you're not actually debating this, but rather spouting off random nonsense and trolling. not surprising i guess since you have already said you can't stand namor. my bad for assuming you might be someone with a lack of bias and an open mind. but carry on. i just have a strict "do not entertain idocy" policy in place for myself, so shall politely excuse myself from replying to you anymore.

Originally posted by Board Walker
This like asking

Thor vs Namor and Aquaman, or Silver Surfer vs Namor and Aquaman Originally posted by leonidas
he isn't even CLOSE to a peer of superman
And there we have it. Black Adam (or anyone in the Marvel family) is NOT a peer to Superman (or Surfer or Thor). At their best, BA and CM are in Wonder Woman's tier and even there she's at the upper end of it, they are somehwere in the middle.

Of course, he is a peer to Superman, Kingdom Come, Justice and a million other stories show writer and creator intent. Hey, how many times has Billy been the guy to knock Supes out?

Adam is not Superman's equal but he is nearer Superman than he is Namor or Aquaman.

Originally posted by beatboks
It does if you understand basic physics

Force = mass x acceleration

Since AS can lift 80 tonnes he can move his arm if he makes it weigh 100 grams can get to a velocity of 8000m/s

In an impact the change in force x change time = mass x change in velocity

So if he makes that arm weigh say 500 kg on impact while he strikes at 8000m/s that makes it the equivilwnt od the blow a 400 tonner can produce since a fist strikes and changes velocity ina second.

There's nothing to say he couldnt make his arm weigh 10 grams not 100 and make it 4000 tonner blow or heavier than 500kg on impact. He can after all reduce his density to become completely intangible or increase it to become impervious But you would have downward force of the increased mass of the fist and more energy required to keep the punch level. If someone ties a heavy dumbbell to your wrist by a short cord but holds it while you wind up and throw a punch then lets go, I don't think it will help your punch much. OK, you can't quite magically add mass to an object in real life in quite the same way as a magic fist in a comic, but still. You would have to assume the magically added mass was already accelerated to the same speed as the fist was already traveling when it was added in order for M x A to work - AS might be cheating his way out of doing it but that means something else has to - ah, it's all just comic book physics/magic anyway.

Never forget Adam hits harder than extinction level events http://i.imgur.com/3jVv0Zx.jpg

and can solo a large group of the JSA

http://imgur.com/a/FCtNI

He is a team wrecker!

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Of course, he is a peer to Superman, Kingdom Come, Justice and a million other stories show writer and creator intent. Hey, how many times has Billy been the guy to knock Supes out?

Adam is not Superman's equal but he is nearer Superman than he is Namor or Aquaman. It's interesting. CM was portrayed as almost an equal to Supes by many writers, with BA around the same level as CM. I remember back at the time of Morrison's big 7/expanded JLA era, Morrison said that CM was the only JLA member who could contest an arm wrestle with Superman.

These days though, I don't think DC want to portray CM and BA as being at that level, and there is more emphasis on the lightning powers (also they've long made Billy something of a dimwit but more so lately).

Originally posted by basilisk
It's interesting. CM was portrayed as almost an equal to Supes by many writers, with BA around the same level as CM. I remember back at the time of Morrison's big 7/expanded JLA era, Morrison said that CM was the only JLA member who could contest an arm wrestle with Superman.

These days though, I don't think DC want to portray CM and BA as being at that level, and there is more emphasis on the lightning powers (also they've long made Billy something of a dimwit but more so lately).

I agree if this is new 52 era BA the team has a chance.

facepalm

that's basically what i said.

Originally posted by leonidas
facepalm

that's basically what i said.

Really?

Moving on, the thing about the Hulk and Namor is Adam's thunderclap is a bit more potent. Here it one shots Powergirl. New 52 didn't really work out for DC though so... Oh, and what tier would you put the other guy his Clap deals with? You saw who it was, right? Adam also no sold Kryptonian heat vision there btw.

http://i.imgur.com/TC86IUl.jpg

Someone mentioned Namor and the sub lifting feet...

This puts it in perspective http://i.imgur.com/WP4NBvC.jpg

Originally posted by basilisk
But you would have downward force of the increased mass of the fist and more energy required to keep the punch level. If someone ties a heavy dumbbell to your wrist by a short cord but holds it while you wind up and throw a punch then lets go, I don't think it will help your punch much. OK, you can't quite magically add mass to an object in real life in quite the same way as a magic fist in a comic, but still. You would have to assume the magically added mass was already accelerated to the same speed as the fist was already traveling when it was added in order for M x A to work - AS might be cheating his way out of doing it but that means something else has to - ah, it's all just comic book physics/magic anyway.

The "downward force" etc you mention would only be the case if he changed his mass/density dirimg swing (affecting the velocity) NOT if he changes it at the instance of impact. Its been stayed and shown on panel tjat he can strike like powergirl by mass manip despite being a fraction of her strength.

Of course if he changed the mass during punch he would reduce his velocity. Its the exact same principle as a Flash IMP only Nuklons limits dont get near the "infinite" part of IMP.

Also Nuklons powers arent "magical" he's the grandson of a matter manipulator who split the atom in 1942 a couple years b4 the manhattan project

Bottom line thats hiwnits stated to work in the comics that he increases hisnstriking power via altering mass. Simce he was shown to strike as hard as PG when he is no where that strong

Originally posted by basilisk
But you would have downward force of the increased mass of the fist and more energy required to keep the punch level. If someone ties a heavy dumbbell to your wrist by a short cord but holds it while you wind up and throw a punch then lets go, I don't think it will help your punch much. OK, you can't quite magically add mass to an object in real life in quite the same way as a magic fist in a comic, but still. You would have to assume the magically added mass was already accelerated to the same speed as the fist was already traveling when it was added in order for M x A to work - AS might be cheating his way out of doing it but that means something else has to - ah, it's all just comic book physics/magic anyway. Interesting but why do halter weights help static long jumpers ala the ancient Greeks? Because they do.

Originally posted by beatboks
Also Nuklons powers arent "magical" he's the grandson of a matter manipulator who split the atom in 1942 a couple years b4 the manhattan project Just meant "magic" in terms of it can't be done like that in the real world.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Interesting but why do halter weights help static long jumpers ala the ancient Greeks? Because they do. You still have to swing the weights, or your arms, though. Some sort of force is being applied to the extra mass by the jumper. Again, what would happen if somehow someone suddenly just attached the halter weights to your body mid jump, as dead weights not objects in motion. I really don't think it would help.

Originally posted by basilisk
Just meant "magic" in terms of it can't be done like that in the real world.

You still have to swing the weights, or your arms, though. Some sort of force is being applied to the extra mass by the jumper. Again, what would happen if somehow someone suddenly just attached the halter weights to your body mid jump, as dead weights not objects in motion. I really don't think it would help. Ahh but in that case they would pull it straight down and stop the intended vector of motion if you added them to the vector the force was already travelling in the force at impact would increase surely.

Originally posted by Surtur
So just to be clear: if Black Adam realizes he will lose unless he uses his speed here...what do you feel he then does?

For such a realization to never occur would mean that one second BA will be all "pshh, speed is for lesser men" and then the next second he'll be KO'ed or dead.
this.

He powered through the Marvel's attacks..... because he wasn't going to lose.

Sure, fine, he's not going to speed blitzing at Mach 10,000 at the Ring of the bell or whatever.

But people are acting as if he's going to be beaten to death (or KO) and at no point would he think , hmmm I AM much faster, I should try using my speed.

I love Aquaman and Namor as much as the next guy (Well, Aquaman.. Not so sure many love Namor..), but this should be a pretty clearcut stomp for Adam.

He should be stronger/tougher then a WET Namor, and he certainly should he much faster.. (NOT THAT IT MATTERS.. He can bulldozer this one.)

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Ahh but in that case they would pull it straight down and stop the intended vector of motion if you added them to the vector the force was already travelling in the force at impact would increase surely. Yeah but that's really what I'm saying. It would take energy to do that - something would already have to have applied force to the extra mass when he added it, otherwise it would be just the dead weight. So while he is winding up his fist something would have to be doing the same to that nebulous extra mass somewhere else, equivalent to the jumper applying energy to swing the weights vs just jumping with the weights in his hand - then I guess yes, it would increase the force of the punch. Weird, but in comic books I guess it works that way.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
this.

He powered through the Marvel's attacks..... because he wasn't going to lose.

Sure, fine, he's not going to speed blitzing at Mach 10,000 at the Ring of the bell or whatever.

But people are acting as if he's going to be beaten to death (or KO) and at no point would he think , hmmm I AM much faster, I should try using my speed.

But thats justvit, based on feats hes NOT "much" faster. Hebhas the speed of heru not mercury or hermes. Hermes is the fastest of the gods and he was onky faster than Wally when Wally was a sonic speedster.

BA murders them.

Originally posted by basilisk
Yeah but that's really what I'm saying. It would take energy to do that - something would already have to have applied force to the extra mass when he added it, otherwise it would be just the dead weight. So while he is winding up his fist something would have to be doing the same to that nebulous extra mass somewhere else, equivalent to the jumper applying energy to swing the weights vs just jumping with the weights in his hand - then I guess yes, it would increase the force of the punch. Weird, but in comic books I guess it works that way. Fair enough, we are in agreement then

Originally posted by krisblaze
BA murders them. Agreed Kris.

This is a close fight, Aquaman will probably be More of q disadvantage than help imo