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I'm curious where everyone holds him as the general consensus. Fight takes place in the Utapau hangar bay where Grievous fight Kenobi. Kylo is fully refreshed after every round.

1. TPM Obi
2. TPM Jinn
3. AOTC Obi
4. AOTC Anakin
5. Grievous
6. TPM Maul
7. ROTS Obi
8. ROTS "light side" Anakin
9. Dooku
10. "Zonakin"

TPM Obi, thrashes him.

Stops at Jinn

1. Kylo isn't as good as one of the best PT fighters.

whos kylo ren

Stops at 1, LOL.

Probably stops at 1, Kylo's still kind of vague.

In sabers at least he stops at 1.

All-Out he might take it to 2.

Force only he might be able to ragdoll up to 4

TPM Obi.

Originally posted by Kurk
In sabers at least he stops at 1.

All-Out he might take it to 2.

Force only he might be able to ragdoll up to 4

I don't want to laugh at your opinion, but did he do anything impressive to any trained force users?

Originally posted by deathslash


I don't want to laugh at your opinion, but did he do anything impressive to any trained force users? No it's complete speculation based on his blaster-bolt feat and freezing Rey

Kylo's too vaguely defined. He could be above Ventress or Grievous level combatants, or he could be a sub-TPM Kenobi level *****. I'm inclined to say somewhere between 2 and 6

You know it occurs to me, even with the new movie, how is gauging Kylo or Rey gonna be a thing? Yeah Rey is gonna train with Luke, but then where is she gonna be relative to other Force Users?

The same with Kylo, yeah he'll probably fight a trained Rey but then...he's only going to go off of her as far as where his fighting abilities go. But then how would you figure out, if either combatant are on such and such level compared to others?

We can't gauge them based off their relation to other characters. Only off their own feats.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
We can't gauge them based off their relation to other characters. Only off their own feats.

Right, but as far as fighting goes, they will only be fighting eachother. But how would it then be determined, that they fall under whichever bracket where other fighters are?

TBH, holistically, I'd confidently assert Kylo should be>TPM Kenobi

I assume we're scaling augmentation to Force power. We gauge other people's augmentation level ( Vader dodging/blocking fire from an army over a long period of time ) and their Force feats ( being more powerful then a version of himself which destroyed a superstructure designed to handle long term oceanic pressure at the bottom of the ocean ) and the scale that way. That's what we did in Legends.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Kylo's too vaguely defined. He could be above Ventress or Grievous level combatants

But how? Ventress+Grievous feats, even in Canon, are astronomically above Kylo.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I assume we're scaling augmentation to Force power. We gauge other people's augmentation level ( Vader dodging/blocking fire from an army over a long period of time ) and their Force feats ( being more powerful then a version of himself which destroyed a superstructure designed to handle long term oceanic pressure at the bottom of the ocean ) and the scale that way. That's what we did in Legends.

Well going by there, wouldn't Kylo be then above TPM Obi? Yet everyone says he loses to him? Cause I don't think TPM Obi showed much with Force powers in a combat scenario, whereas you have Kylo able to probe minds and KOing via TP, freeze blaster bolts and I think a few more things according to the TFA novel.

Well, that depends on which is better. Freezing a blaster in place or Obi Wan being able to last against TPM Maul on the basis of his augmentation. Maul seemed to possess the same power he had around TPM once Talzin restored him so that means it was probably within TPM Maul's capabilities to drag that ship off of a cliff ( especially considering the version of Maul which did that was only recently restored and had been injured ). I'd say they're around even given the blaster bolt had enough energy to cause an explosive blast but TPM Kenobi edges it out due to his superiority in regards to technical skill.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
But how? Ventress+Grievous feats, even in Canon, are astronomically above Kylo.

DMB's a bit of a Kylo wanker.

He's not wrong. We really have no clue how powerful Kylo is.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
You know it occurs to me, even with the new movie, how is gauging Kylo or Rey gonna be a thing? Yeah Rey is gonna train with Luke, but then where is she gonna be relative to other Force Users?

The same with Kylo, yeah he'll probably fight a trained Rey but then...he's only going to go off of her as far as where his fighting abilities go. But then how would you figure out, if either combatant are on such and such level compared to others?

The same way we've always compared characters from different eras. By using feats and statements.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
DMB's a bit of a Kylo wanker.
I'm not though. I've never debated in favor of him or argued a solid ranking for him because he's too uncertain.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
But how? Ventress+Grievous feats, even in Canon, are astronomically above Kylo.
Well I'm referring to canon only here so no legends shit, but looking at how Ventress could barely stand after a blaster shot to the shoulder, I don't see her taking a bowcaster shot to the gut and performing remotely as well as Kylo did against Rey and Finn.

It's sketchy to try and place Kylo on that basis alone, but it's certainly possible that he is above Ventress. The comparison could be accurate to powerlevels and he could be Ventress+, or he could just be a total *****, but it's important to note that the fight people use as Kylo's upper limit to say he's shit isn't one I see Ventress replicating in the same circumstances.

It's obvious Kylo's power is vastly beyond Ventress, but it doesn't seem he has the PT-style lightsaber fighting down, which Pablo recently described as the hallmark of a true Jedi.

Perhaps in The Last Jedi we'll see more of Kylo's abilities. I know Disney is cautious to bring back that style of fighting, but the reality is that, at the moment, he just looks so unrefined.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well I'm referring to canon only here so no legends shit, but looking at how Ventress could barely stand after a blaster shot to the shoulder, I don't see her taking a bowcaster shot to the gut and performing remotely as well as Kylo did against Rey and Finn.

It's sketchy to try and place Kylo on that basis alone, but it's certainly possible that he is above Ventress. The comparison could be accurate to powerlevels and he could be Ventress+, or he could just be a total *****, but it's important to note that the fight people use as Kylo's upper limit to say he's shit isn't one I see Ventress replicating in the same circumstances.

Okay. Kylo is more durable than Ventress. But what saber feats, or even Force feats does he have to compare? In Canon, Ventress matched S3 Anakin in a duel (Anakin's inferior AOTC version made Dooku work for it, and again in the TCW movie) stalemated Luminara+Ahsoka while playing around with them, fought evenly with Season 4 Savage Opress, a threat to Dooku (dueling-wise) with only one blade, and held her own against Anakin+Kenobi.

And Ventress, even when wounded AF and barely able to stand, should be able to wreck Rey and Finn. They're good, but come on...

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Okay. Kylo is more durable than Ventress. But what saber feats, or even Force feats does he have to compare? In Canon, Ventress matched S3 Anakin in a duel (Anakin's inferior AOTC version made Dooku work for it, and again in the TCW movie) stalemated Luminara+Ahsoka while playing around with them, fought evenly with Season 4 Savage Opress, a threat to Dooku (dueling-wise) with only one blade, and held her own against Anakin+Kenobi.

And Ventress, even when wounded AF and barely able to stand, should be able to wreck Rey and Finn. They're good, but come on...
I'd question if Ventress could stand with that wound.

Well here's the thing though, I'm not definitively saying Kylo's better, I'm just saying the possibility for Kylo>Ventress exists, but that Kylo's placement is obfuscated by his lack of exposure and circumstance. There isn't definitive evidence that Kylo is better than canon Ventress, but there also isn't definitive evidence that canon Ventress is above Kylo. I'm not pushing Kylo>Ventress, I'm saying it's a possibility.

You're trying to debate me on something I'm not taking a stance on.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
DMB's a bit of a Kylo wanker. Then you've never met Quanchi112

Probably 2, but who knows. Very confident he would take TPM Obi-Wan, lol..

Originally posted by toplel
whos kylo ren

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'd question if Ventress could stand with that wound.

Well here's the thing though, I'm not definitively saying Kylo's better, I'm just saying the possibility for Kylo>Ventress exists, but that Kylo's placement is obfuscated by his lack of exposure and circumstance. There isn't definitive evidence that Kylo is better than canon Ventress, but there also isn't definitive evidence that canon Ventress is above Kylo. I'm not pushing Kylo>Ventress, I'm saying it's a possibility.

You're trying to debate me on something I'm not taking a stance on. durability isn't the same as skill though. For example, Savage Opress took somewhere around two dozen blaster bolts to the back and chest and was still standing (this as after he took half a dozen lightning blasts to the face btw). Not only that, but in Dark Disciple, Ventress got her skull cracked and still did well against Grievous IIRC.