Interesting Documentary - "Rescuing Ex-Muslims: Leaving Islam"

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YousufKhan1212
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1lnxUXWGgE

This is an interesting report of the experiences of Muslims who leave Islam to become ex-Muslims.

Surtur
Even the first 10 seconds is utterly chilling. "If a person changes his religion from Islam to any other religion the punishment should be death". This isn't said with the religious zeal of some over the top Christian preacher talking about fire and brimstone, it is said very matter o factly.

What other religions will currently murder you for trying to leave? I hear it's really hard to quit Buddhism. That shit's 4 life and you need a stitch for those who dare ditch.

YousufKhan1212
Originally posted by Surtur
Even the first 10 seconds is utterly chilling. "If a person changes his religion from Islam to any other religion the punishment should be death". This isn't said with the religious zeal of some over the top Christian preacher talking about fire and brimstone, it is said very matter o factly.

What other religions will currently murder you for trying to leave? I hear it's really hard to quit Buddhism. That shit's 4 life and you need a stitch for those who dare ditch.

So is there even a punishment for leaving Christianity?

Patient_Leech
I haven't had a chance to watch the video yet, but...

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
So is there even a punishment for leaving Christianity?

There isn't any strict punishment for leaving the religion, no. Aside from some wacky shit in the Old Testament, there is no direct order to kill anyone who leaves the religion. And Jesus came around in the New Testament and is said to have brought some new light and perspective upon the Old Testament law.

But there is some doctrine of the "unpardonable sin"...



But I think ultimately the punishment is eternal hell fire (not death by believers). Chalk it up to more ambiguous religious nonsense. But it is one of the things that drove my brother crazy and probably ultimately caused him to kill himself. He thought he had turned against God and committed this supposed "unpardonable sin" and was thus without hope. Charming doctrines for a schizophrenic to hold on to, right? This is why it gets on my nerves when people seem to imply that religious lunacy had nothing to do with my brother's mental illness.

YousufKhan1212
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I haven't had a chance to watch the video yet, but...



There isn't any strict punishment for leaving the religion, no. Aside from some wacky shit in the Old Testament, there is no direct order to kill anyone who leaves the religion. And Jesus came around in the New Testament and is said to have brought some new light and perspective upon the Old Testament law.

But there is some doctrine of the "unpardonable sin"...



But I think ultimately the punishment is eternal hell fire (not death by believers). Chalk it up to more ambiguous religious nonsense. But it is one of the things that drove my brother crazy and probably ultimately caused him to kill himself. He thought he had turned against God and committed this supposed "unpardonable sin" and was thus without hope. Charming doctrines for a schizophrenic to hold on to, right? This is why it gets on my nerves when people seem to imply that religious lunacy had nothing to do with my brother's mental illness.

Huh, sounds like leaving Christianity makes you... Crazy.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Huh, sounds like leaving Christianity makes you... Crazy.

Staying in it is crazier.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
But I think ultimately the punishment is eternal hell fire (not death by believers). Chalk it up to more ambiguous religious nonsense. But it is one of the things that drove my brother crazy and probably ultimately caused him to kill himself. He thought he had turned against God and committed this supposed "unpardonable sin" and was thus without hope. Charming doctrines for a schizophrenic to hold on to, right? This is why it gets on my nerves when people seem to imply that religious lunacy had nothing to do with my brother's mental illness.

Religious belief does not lead to Schizophrenia, which appears to be a largely heritable condition.

Religious delusions are common among people with Schizophrenia, because all of the previous beliefs, experiences, and ideas of a person form the framework of his psychotic thinking.

So if religion played an important part in his life, it is not surprising that there would be a religious component within his Schizophrenic beliefs.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Religious belief does not lead to Schizophrenia, which appears to be a largely heritable condition.

I didn't say it did lead to it. It's got a genetic component, sure. Diseases have multiple factors. But it also has an upbringing component and religious delusion can only enhance anyone already prone to the anxiety, fear, and obsessive compulsions associated with schizophrenia.

SamZED
Being religious does not mix well with any disorder. Most of my OCD attacks used to revolve around it and it got pretty bad at times. In case of Schizophrenia it must be even worse than that.

Patient_Leech
^ Yup, anyone with any experience in the matter knows that religiosity does not mix well with mental illness. I hope you're overcoming both, my friend.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
O1lnxUXWGgE

This is an interesting report of the experiences of Muslims who leave Islam to become ex-Muslims.

I finally watched the documentary. It's heart-breaking, especially to think that this is not a rare instance.

YousufKhan1212
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I finally watched the documentary. It's heart-breaking, especially to think that this is not a rare instance.

That's why I'm secretly an ex-Muslim.

SamZED
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
^ Yup, anyone with any experience in the matter knows that religiosity does not mix well with mental illness. I hope you're overcoming both, my friend. I am. And thank you. smile

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
That's why I'm secretly an ex-Muslim.
What country are you from? Is it punishable by low to "come out" or you're keeping it a secret for the sake of your family?

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
That's why I'm secretly an ex-Muslim. Originally posted by SamZED
What country are you from? Is it punishable by low to "come out" or you're keeping it a secret for the sake of your family?

Yeah, I second this question. Where are you from, Yousuf?

YousufKhan1212
Originally posted by SamZED
What country are you from? Is it punishable by low to "come out" or you're keeping it a secret for the sake of your family?

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Yeah, I second this question. Where are you from, Yousuf?

I'm from England which is fortunately not a Muslim country. I'm keeping it a secret for the sake of my own safety, dignity and my relationships with my family and friends. From where I live, all of the Muslims seem to be moderates because they've spoken against extremism such as the likes of Anjem Choudary and other radical Muslims, but it would still be a bad idea if I openly declared my change of Religious faith because word can go around and might spread to other neighborhoods... Which could result in me becoming a target of oppression. But even if that doesn't happen, I would still have to be concerned about the reaction of the Muslim community. They would probably think I'm mentally ill or have been brainwashed by right wing propoganda which isn't the case. And I would get questioned a lot by Muslims about why I changed my Religion from Islam to Christianity, but that's beyond their ability to understand. Some Muslims will probably just be assholes about it. In addition to that, my parents might also have a problem with it. They're not extremely Religious, my mum thinks the Sharia is a twisted abomination of Islam, my dad thinks Muslims who commit forms of Islamic extremism are stupid, so it's good that they don't support Islamic extremism, but they would likely question why I left Islam because they think it's a Religion of peace and have got no idea how evil it is, my dad would especially think I'm being brainwashed because he has no tolerance for "superstition" or stuff like that.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
...my dad would especially think I'm being brainwashed because he has no tolerance for "superstition" or stuff like that.

Isn't that a little ironic? Fear of the afterlife and belief in God is the epitome of superstition.

That's f#cked up that you have to even consider being so careful about expressing what you think in a country that's not even a Muslim majority. This is what people are rightly afraid of happening here in the USA. But those of us who are awake to realize it are considered bigots or racists (even though Islam isn't a race). Not to mention violent bombings and shootings that could spread over here at some point in the future.

YousufKhan1212
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Isn't that a little ironic? Fear of the afterlife and belief in God is the epitome of superstition.

That's f#cked up that you have to even consider being so careful about expressing what you think in a country that's not even a Muslim majority. This is what people are rightly afraid of happening here in the USA. But those of us who are awake to realize it are considered bigots or racists (even though Islam isn't a race). Not to mention violent bombings and shootings that could spread over here at some point in the future.

I'm saying he would think it's superstition that I left Islam because of the amount violence associated with it, he thinks Islamic violence is only found in terrorist organisations that twist Islam, but it goes beyond terrorist organisations.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
I'm saying he would think it's superstition that I left Islam because of the amount violence associated with it, he thinks Islamic violence is only found in terrorist organisations that twist Islam, but it goes beyond terrorist organisations.

Yes, of course. It's at the foundations of Islam.

https://pics.me.me/www-betteraeldamned-com-the-problem-isnt-fundamentalism-the-problem-with-tslamic-14561768.png

YousufKhan1212
Well, looks like things are going to be a lot worse for me than I first thought... I am going to be so ****ed.

Tempests dad
Late medieval Christianity is NOTHING compared to this...

YousufKhan1212
Originally posted by Tempests dad
Late medieval Christianity is NOTHING compared to this...

I've read a lot of things about Christianity's violent history, but at least Christianity's phase of violence is pretty much over. Islam will always be violent though, and I live in a country that is slowly getting ****ed up by Islam, and me and my family are going to be moving to Birmingham later this year, a place that is notorious for having Islamic violence and far populated with Muslims than my home town. Out of my family, I have an older sister who's also an ex-Muslim, but she's 21 years and she's an Atheist. She told me that I should "NEVER" tell my parents I became a Christian or they will "kill me" which has made me even more doubtful about coming out to my parents. If my parents found out my sister was an Atheist, they'll be pretty pissed off but if they found out I'm a Christian, all hell would break loose. And to fair I definitely think they'll be even more pissed off at me, especially my dad. I already have an abusive dad who's been a dickhead and giving me shit for years, but I've been tolerating his bullshit. If he found out that I left Islam and converted to Christianity, that's going to trigger him to a much higher level of abusiveness, and I have no doubt he'll resort to domestic violence. But I won't be scared of him if that happens because I already hate him with a burning passion and I will have an excuse to have a fight with him (I'm pretty sure it isn't illegal for me to fight someone who's committing hate crime), I will beat the shit out of him if he dares persecuting me. I've already got too much anger towards him and at the moment I can barely able to put up with his abusive habits, if so he commits hate crime that will be the last straw. The only thing I might have to worry about is if my anger blinds me and I beat him up too much.

SamZED
Afaik beating someone up for a hate crime is still illegal in most places. Self defence isn't though. Would be better if you could afford to move out from your dad instead of beating him up though.
You'd think your dad would be more pissed at your sister since an atheist is a lot worse from muslim perspective than a Christian.

Emperordmb
My guess would be him. I feel like not believing in any God is less a slap in the face than actively worshipping a different God.

SamZED
Not really, not in Islam. Rejecting God all together is a lot worse. Christians and Jews are considered to be "people of the book". Atheists might as well be devil worshippers.

YousufKhan1212
@SamZED: I'm going to beat my dad up out of self defense because he's definitely going to start a fight with me, but I will limit the beatings I will give because I don't want to seriously injure him. I could try to move out of my parent's house, but that will depend on when I'm independent and can live on my own, and I think that's not going to happen until I'm much older. Plus, even if I move out, I still have to worry about the threat of Muslim gangs because I will be living in Birmingham, a highly populated Muslim city. Nissar Hussain, an ex-Muslim who lived in Bradford (another highly populated Muslim city like Birmingham), suffered persecution for at least 16 years at the hands of Muslim gangs and nearly beaten to death by a group of Muslim thugs in front of his own house.

I'm pretty confident that the fact that I converted to Christianity will definitely infuriate him, as well as my mum and local Muslim community, more than being an Atheist being a Christian convert means I have committed a blatant and deliberate act of shirk, the highest form of blasphemy in Islam. Plus, Muslims these days seem to like bashing on Christians and Jews a lot more than any other non-Muslims.

Surtur
Hate crimes are stupid things to charge people with.

I murdered this homeless guy...for his jacket!

I murdered this black guy...cuz he is black!

*Cue a lunatic walking in and acting like the latter is somehow worse*

YousufKhan1212
Hate crimes are indeed stupid things to be charged with, but I have a feeling that having a fight with my dad, even out of self defense, will create a shit show. Knowing how manipulative and cunning my dad is, if the fight happens and he gets battered, he'd probably try misrepresenting the fight to the police by painting himself as the victim and bullshit them by saying I assaulted him and started shit with him rather than admitting that he committed hate crime and provoked me into fighting back. But I'm not sure how likely that is to happen. Even if it doesn't, the police are going to be forced to seperate us because at that point we'd probably hate each other (I already hate him for being an abusive tyrant) and have bad blood. Then it would probably become a matter in the court. Sounds like too much bullshit, but if it comes to the court, I will expose him for all of his crimes.

Surtur
Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Hate crimes are indeed stupid things to be charged with, but I have a feeling that having a fight with my dad, even out of self defense, will create a shit show. Knowing how manipulative and cunning my dad is, if the fight happens and he gets battered, he'd probably try misrepresenting the fight to the police by painting himself as the victim and bullshit them by saying I assaulted him and started shit with him rather than admitting that he committed hate crime and provoked me into fighting back. But I'm not sure how likely that is to happen. Even if it doesn't, the police are going to be forced to seperate us because at that point we'd probably hate each other (I already hate him for being an abusive tyrant) and have bad blood. Then it would probably become a matter in the court. Sounds like too much bullshit, but if it comes to the court, I will expose him for all of his crimes.

I just want to see a liberal state the following:

A white man who murders a black man for being black deserves more jail time than a black man who murders a white guy for his wallet.

I wanna see them say it so I can point and laugh(and throw things).

YousufKhan1212

SamZED
That's rough, man. Hope it gets better eventually. Usually this type of family stuff doesn't get resolved until you manage to move out and build your own life outside the family and neighbourhood circles.

Try not to put all these horrific scenarios in your head. About having to fight your dead and the neighbourhood and suicide. It seems you have only one advantage here, but it's a huge one. You live under the laws of your country. Even though some might not share that opinion eventually you should be able to give a crap about that circles inner-rules and opinions once you're on your own and supporting yourself.

This type of situations can be even worse for minorities when such abuse is state regulated like in some ME countries and even here in Russia.

YousufKhan1212
Originally posted by SamZED
That's rough, man. Hope it gets better eventually. Usually this type of family stuff doesn't get resolved until you manage to move out and build your own life outside the family and neighbourhood circles.

Try not to put all these horrific scenarios in your head. About having to fight your dead and the neighbourhood and suicide. It seems you have only one advantage here, but it's a huge one. You live under the laws of your country. Even though some might not share that opinion eventually you should be able to give a crap about that circles inner-rules and opinions once you're on your own and supporting yourself.

This type of situations can be even worse for minorities when such abuse is state regulated like in some ME countries and even here in Russia.

Thanks, but the law that I live under has some bias for Islam and silences criticisms of Islam, but it should be able to acknowledge my situation and do something about it, unlike Islamic countries. I can't get my dad out of my head though because I know that ****er is not going to take it very well. He's threatened me with violence quite a few times over stupid things that are nothing compared to how triggered he'll get if/when he finds out about my secret. What's inevitable is that he'll try forcing me to revert back to Islam, which obviously isn't going to work and will piss him off even more, and he's eventually going to resort to domestic violence, and that's going to result in a fight because there's no way in hell that I'm going to let him beat me up without fighting back. And since I already have so much anger towards my dad, I'm going to let it all out and trash him until he can't fight back.

Emperordmb
Yeah if you speak out against Islam, law enforcement gets used as a political weapon against you.

YousufKhan1212
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah if you speak out against Islam, law enforcement gets used as a political weapon against you.

Which means I'm going to avoid bringing Islam into it and just present it as a family problem.

MuslimForLife

MuslimForLife
Why is this thread dead?

YousufKhan1212

YousufKhan1212

YousufKhan1212

YousufKhan1212

YousufKhan1212
And that's it. I've gotten a lot of my chest again.

CroftAlice
Ever predictable

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