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Who wins this, for me, it seems mighty close and subjective. Has anyone got a strong argument for either?

Adam.

Why? Unworthy Thor had huge issues with him and only won by trickery.

Adam.
No strong argument, just an opinion that Apoc cant beat a Superman level character, especially not one as BA.

Black Adam like King Hyperion level and both can stomp Apocalypse hard.

Originally posted by riv6672
Adam.
No strong argument, just an opinion that Apoc cant beat a Superman level character, especially not one as BA. You consider Black Adam a peer of Superman, Interesting.
Originally posted by vansonbee
Black Adam like King Hyperion level and both can stomp Apocalypse hard. Interesting, you consider Black Adam a peer of King Hyperion who beat every Superhero on his Earth...

Leonidas, Zop Zop, what do you think?

Adam has been hit by Onimar Synn and Apocalypse has nothing on him.

I was going to say BA, but then I realized my mind still goes to the post crisis versions of characters.

I guess it depends on how close BA currently is to his post crisis version in power. That version could survive tesseracts the size of football fields being opened inside his head and had enough speed to fight Jay Garrick at super speed and they end up running at near light speeds.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
You consider Black Adam a peer of Superman, Interesting.

I try to be.

When their post crisis incarnations fought they seemed kinda even.

I'd actually roll with Apocalypse. Physical attacks aren't really going to do anything to Apocalypse and Black Adam doesn't have a plot device axe which is enchanted specifically to slice through Celestial Armor like butter. Not to mention that Apocalypse also has a bunch of other powers besides just his physicality and can create forcefields, teleport, use telekinesis, lifeforce drain, etc. If we're not limiting this solely to a fist fight (and even if we were Black Adam isn't going to punch Apocalypse out) Apocalypse has the tools to win.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
You consider Black Adam a peer of Superman, Interesting.
Leonidas, Zop Zop, what do you think?
He's nowhere near Superman in terms of power. He's a full tier below him. At his best, he and CM, are Wonder Woman level PHYSICALLY. WW with her standard gear : tiara, sword, lasso, bracers kills BA or CM.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I'd actually roll with Apocalypse. Physical attacks aren't really going to do anything to Apocalypse and Black Adam doesn't have a plot device axe which is enchanted specifically to slice through Celestial Armor like butter. Not to mention that Apocalypse also has a bunch of other powers besides just his physicality and can create forcefields, teleport, use telekinesis, lifeforce drain, etc. If we're not limiting this solely to a fist fight (and even if we were Black Adam isn't going to punch Apocalypse out) Apocalypse has the tools to win.

BA also has his magical transmutation if that helps him.

Adam transmutes Apocalypse into a ping pong table.

Originally posted by Zack M
Adam. What

Originally posted by zopzop
He's nowhere near Superman in terms of power. He's a full tier below him. At his best, he and CM, are Wonder Woman level PHYSICALLY. WW with her standard gear : tiara, sword, lasso, bracers kills BA or CM.


As in, Superman is HH and CM/BA mid herald?

Im surprised BA is so under utilized given his popularity. I guess DC doesnt know what to do with him.

I have a high opinion on Apoc, I rate him against all on panel showings and common sense as trans. BA however can compete, so 5/10.

Originally posted by zopzop
At his best, he and CM, are Wonder Woman level PHYSICALLY.
haha
That Kool Aid must be wonderful.

Anyhow, agree to disagree.

Originally posted by zopzop
He's nowhere near Superman in terms of power. He's a full tier below him. At his best, he and CM, are Wonder Woman level PHYSICALLY. WW with her standard gear : tiara, sword, lasso, bracers kills BA or CM.




Gotta agree with you.

My instinct was to go with Adam, but the more I thought about it, the more I found myself wondering HOW Adam would beat him, and I'm not so sure now.

Adam is a high herald though, imo. At least, he was post-crisis.

You cant see how a high herald can beat Apoc?
To quote the thread starter, interesting.

Originally posted by -Pr-
My instinct was to go with Adam, but the more I thought about it, the more I found myself wondering HOW Adam would beat him, and I'm not so sure now.

Adam is a high herald though, imo. At least, he was post-crisis.

Doesnt he job like a lot? I cant really remember any long fights with Nur

Apocalypse's plans get thwarted, he doesn't take many head up L's sans a plot device like coming out of hibernation too early (a la Stryfe in X-Cutioner Song, Dracula in Apocalypse vs Dracula, or Stryfe + Bishop in Messiah War) or magic spells a writer pulls out of their ass in order to create an arc where Celestials are getting cut down like jabronis (Jarnbjorn). At full power he's batting around .900 against most opponents/teams when he actually fights for himself. He's just the subject of memes around here because people don't like the character.

Originally posted by riv6672
You cant see how a high herald can beat Apoc?
To quote the thread starter, interesting.

Please don't twist my words.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Doesnt he job like a lot? I cant really remember any long fights with Nur

Jobbing is kind of covered in the vs rules unless the character is monumentally stupid, which Nur is not.

I don't really see Apocalypse taking down Adam. If Adam can withstand hits from trans level beings like Onimar Synn, what the hell is Apocalypse going to do? Telepathy? Martian Manhunter is a superior telepath and look where that got him.

Life force drain should work.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Please don't twist my words.
I'm not gonna get into a pissing match with a mod.
But thats what you implied/i inferred.

And in the spirit of not pissing, done here.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Apocalypse's plans get thwarted, he doesn't take many head up L's sans a plot device like coming out of hibernation too early (a la Stryfe in X-Cutioner Song, Dracula in Apocalypse vs Dracula, or Stryfe + Bishop in Messiah War) or magic spells a writer pulls out of their ass in order to create an arc where Celestials are getting cut down like jabronis (Jarnbjorn). At full power he's batting around .900 against most opponents/teams when he actually fights for himself. He's just the subject of memes around here because people don't like the character.

Yea but we dont really have anything to base his abilities on...i know his losses are plot driven but he hasnt had any straight up 1 v 1 battles to gauge from.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Life force drain should work.

That's been tried, too. Didn't work

BA pre new 52 could beat superman. New 52 BA is ww tier. Apoc at at his best can beat new 52 BA 6/10 pre new 52 BA at his best beats apoc 8/10 even 9/10

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I'd actually roll with Apocalypse. Physical attacks aren't really going to do anything to Apocalypse and Black Adam doesn't have a plot device axe which is enchanted specifically to slice through Celestial Armor like butter. Not to mention that Apocalypse also has a bunch of other powers besides just his physicality and can create forcefields, teleport, use telekinesis, lifeforce drain, etc. If we're not limiting this solely to a fist fight (and even if we were Black Adam isn't going to punch Apocalypse out) Apocalypse has the tools to win.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Apocalypse's plans get thwarted, he doesn't take many head up L's sans a plot device like coming out of hibernation too early (a la Stryfe in X-Cutioner Song, Dracula in Apocalypse vs Dracula, or Stryfe + Bishop in Messiah War) or magic spells a writer pulls out of their ass in order to create an arc where Celestials are getting cut down like jabronis (Jarnbjorn). At full power he's batting around .900 against most opponents/teams when he actually fights for himself. He's just the subject of memes around here because people don't like the character.
Probably lean Bladam , but Apoc ain't going down easy.

pre boot prolly adam. new adam, i'll take apoc.

Black Adam wins both

Originally posted by leonidas
pre boot prolly adam. new adam, i'll take apoc. New adam went up against ultraman and held his own

New Adam killed the Circle of Trinity and The Pale Bishop. Probably more impressive than his pre-flashpoint self. They're all the same being anyway.

Who is the strongest being Apocalypse has hurt physically?