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Red god Goku

Vs

Base Goku (Current)

Apparently in episode 104, Goku's going to power up from SSJ2 to SSJG, so I'd wager it's above base.

Base < SSJ1-3 < SSG < Blue
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Apparently in episode 104, Goku's going to power up from SSJ2 to SSJG, so I'd wager it's above base. I am hype for this!

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Apparently in episode 104, Goku's going to power up from SSJ2 to SSJG, so I'd wager it's above base.

Really? He's going to go to SSRGG?

It would appear so. Curious as to how they'll make SSG Red useful again here, after how the manga later made some creative use of it.

Considering how much they amped him from the movie to DBS, it should be easy to make him relevant.

My current theory: Super Saiyan Blue is something of a half-baked "cheat" god form in the anime. In other words, it uses the multiplier of the Super Saiyan transformation to boost an otherwise incomplete god power (Saiyan Beyond God) into a form that surpasses Super Saiyan God. That is to say, SSB uses godly power, but doesn't transform the user into a legitimate deity like SSG does. That's why it doesn't have the restored youth, the thinner frame, the constantly rising power, the regeneration, etc. But if Goku has now reached the point where he's able to fully transform into a SSG (red) by himself, then turns into a Super Saiyan using that as a base, then he would become a true Super Saiyan God, i.e the new form.

Manga already established ssjgod < ssjgodssj.

Originally posted by cdtm
Manga already established ssjgod < ssjgodssj.

Cliff notes please

Originally posted by cdtm
Manga already established ssjgod < ssjgodssj.

The manga and the anime aren't the same. Besides, I didn't say SSG>SSB.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
My current theory: Super Saiyan Blue is something of a half-baked "cheat" god form in the anime. In other words, it uses the multiplier of the Super Saiyan transformation to boost an otherwise incomplete god power (Saiyan Beyond God) into a form that surpasses Super Saiyan God. That is to say, SSB uses godly power, but doesn't transform the user into a legitimate deity like SSG does. That's why it doesn't have the restored youth, the thinner frame, the constantly rising power, the regeneration, etc. But if Goku has now reached the point where he's able to fully transform into a SSG (red) by himself, then turns into a Super Saiyan using that as a base, then he would become a true Super Saiyan God, i.e the new form.
I like this idea. Would love if it turned out to be the case actually.

SSG seemed to have unlimted ki, regeneration from wounds and near limitless power.

Originally posted by Sable
Cliff notes please

Goku used SSJ God as an intermediary form to conserve stamina against Hit before going blue.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The manga and the anime aren't the same. Besides, I didn't say SSG>SSB.

The manga and anime are based off the same script. Any differences would be from different interpretations, without contradicting each other (So master SSJ Blue and Super Kaioken basically do the same thing, and you won't see differences that completely break one over the other..)

Originally posted by cdtm
Goku used SSJ God as an intermediary form to conserve stamina against Hit before going blue.

Which form is SSG now? I thought Red was SSG.

It is. In the manga, Goku used the red form against Hit in the U6 tournament.

Originally posted by cdtm
The manga and anime are based off the same script. Any differences would be from different interpretations, without contradicting each other (So master SSJ Blue and Super Kaioken basically do the same thing, and you won't see differences that completely break one over the other..)

They conflict with each other all the time. And no, mastered SSJB and Kaio-Ken are not the same thing; one contains energy to prevent power drain, and the other provides a brief power burst at the cost of stamina. They're functionally opposite of each other.

Ah

Certainly would've helped if the manga stayed ahead of the anime, where the anime was going off the manga like before with DBZ and DB, but now it's basically the DBS anime doing its own thing while the manga catches up at its own pace. I don't mind this in hindsight since it's sometimes interesting to see the creative differences, but the anime & manga being more similar like DBZ was (for the most part) would've made things less confusing and much easier to follow.

Here's a few things that might help a bit with understanding SSG compared to SSGSS from the manga btw other than the bit with Hit for anyone who hasn't read it yet.

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y508/YamchaKMC/IMG_2645_zpswlhsxt36.jpeg

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y508/YamchaKMC/IMG_2646_zpswrcgogvr.jpeg

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y508/YamchaKMC/IMG_2647_zps7xvby7ph.jpeg

These are all from parts in Chapter 22 for anyone curious.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
My current theory: Super Saiyan Blue is something of a half-baked "cheat" god form in the anime. In other words, it uses the multiplier of the Super Saiyan transformation to boost an otherwise incomplete god power (Saiyan Beyond God) into a form that surpasses Super Saiyan God. That is to say, SSB uses godly power, but doesn't transform the user into a legitimate deity like SSG does. That's why it doesn't have the restored youth, the thinner frame, the constantly rising power, the regeneration, etc. But if Goku has now reached the point where he's able to fully transform into a SSG (red) by himself, then turns into a Super Saiyan using that as a base, then he would become a true Super Saiyan God, i.e the new form.


Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I like this idea. Would love if it turned out to be the case actually.

Let's hope so.

I will never stop rubbing the thread below in Carver's face:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f74/t635816.html

Originally posted by Placidity
Let's hope so.

I will never stop rubbing the thread below in Carver's face:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f74/t635816.html
Oh yeah, there's getting to do that too I guess if such comes to pass. lol I just never liked how Super Saiyan Blue (or SSGSSJ) came along as quickly as it did to begin with, so we never got to further explore the Red SSG as a result until recently.

And I guess this is mostly the anime's fault with how power scaling's handled now, but SSB commonly comes off as so weak compared to other opponents now that it's actually an underwhelming form to look at anymore unless maybe Vegeta's being serious with it, but otherwise I feel SSJ Blue has kinda long overstayed its welcome, and that's pretty bad considering how I was never burned out from seeing the previous SSJ forms in action (rookie SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3, and so on). The Limit Breaker form and return of the Red SSG can't come soon enough...

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It is. In the manga, Goku used the red form against Hit in the U6 tournament.



They conflict with each other all the time. And no, mastered SSJB and Kaio-Ken are not the same thing; one contains energy to prevent power drain, and the other provides a brief power burst at the cost of stamina. They're functionally opposite of each other.

They both amp Goku and they both break down the body. They're both just a powerup to beat Hit and put Goku over Vegeta.

Toriyama obviously left a lot of lattitude in his scripts, but any differences between them are superficial and won't deviate much from the big events.

Nope, perfected Blue wasn't needed to beat Hit in the manga. Goku beat him with normal Blue.

Point is they're both SSJ Blue Plus.

If anything Goku beating Hit without Super Kaio-Ken proves it's a complete bullshit form that was just for show though.

Exactly. There are things introduced that are only for the show.

I cant wait till he goes red again. By far the coolest form.

Looks like they retconned Saiyan Beyond god form.