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Even by a little

Pre DCnu All


Omac
Ultraman
Despero
Wm thor
Kurse
Eradicator
Doomsday
Superboy prime
WWH
King Hyperion (Original)
Etrigan
Destroyer (Animated)

Current Superman who is an amalgam of the PreDCNu (OWAW +FC) AND DCnU (Benchpressing Earth for 5 days without sunylight)

Omac, no
Ultraman, no
Despero, no
Wm thor, no
Kurse, no
Eradicator, no
Doomsday, HP maybe
Superboy prime, maybe
WWH, no
King Hyperion (Original), no
Etrigan, no
Destroyer (Animated), no

No pre current

Omac, no
Ultraman, no
Despero, no
Wm thor, no
Kurse, no
Eradicator, no
Doomsday, HP maybe
Superboy prime, yes
WWH, yes
King Hyperion (Original), no
Etrigan, no
Destroyer (Animated), no

Omac. No
Ultraman no
Despero yes
Wm thor yes
Kurse yes
Eradicator no
Doomsday. Yes
Superboy prime yes
WWH yes
King Hyperion (Original) no
Etrigan no
Destroyer (Animated) yes

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Omac. No
Ultraman no
Despero yes
Wm thor yes
Kurse yes
Eradicator no
Doomsday. Yes
Superboy prime yes
WWH yes
King Hyperion (Original) no
Etrigan no
Destroyer (Animated) yes

This.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
This.

They are going to come at us with fire & fury. Be ready brother !!

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Omac. No
Ultraman no
Despero yes
Wm thor yes
Kurse yes
Eradicator no
Doomsday. Yes
Superboy prime yes
WWH yes
King Hyperion (Original) no
Etrigan no
Destroyer (Animated) yes
I like this list. Solid.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Omac. No
Ultraman no
Despero yes
Wm thor yes
Kurse yes
Eradicator no
Doomsday. Yes
Superboy prime yes
WWH yes
King Hyperion (Original) no
Etrigan no
Destroyer (Animated) yes

Ill grant SBP. DD is arguable. Other than that, Cite the showings demonstrating Despero, WM Thor, Kurse, WWH, and Destroyer as superior.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Omac. No
Ultraman no
Despero yes
Wm thor yes
Kurse yes
Eradicator no
Doomsday. Yes
Superboy prime yes
WWH yes
King Hyperion (Original) no
Etrigan no
Destroyer (Animated) yes

I'm on board with this.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
They are going to come at us with fire & fury. Be ready brother !! Well you already know who will come crying and claiming superman is stronger than all characters, even WBH is not safe from their wishes.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
They are going to come at us with fire & fury. Be ready brother !!


I fear no biased poster. This is a solid list. And there is others backing it as well. The same people that are going to get upset will say Superman is a multiversal level entity so...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
They are going to come at us with fire & fury. Be ready brother !!
Sister
United we stand!

Originally posted by panthergod
Ill grant SBP. DD is arguable. Other than that, Cite the showings demonstrating Despero, WM Thor, Kurse, WWH, and Destroyer as superior.

I go by averages. So an average run-of-the-mill Superman is below a shitload of these arc specific or high end characters. Despero is a trans character (pre- DCU) he already beat Clark iirc straight up and wrecked versions of the league. People are gonna bitcch about CoC or bring up Supergirl but whateves...the we all have low showings.

WM Thor/WWH are in the same catergory. Im not so much basing it off feats as i am mindset.

Kurse/Destroyer speak for themselves


Now dont get me wrong. I realize current Superman is this new amalgamated DBZ fusion character who is a multiversal wrecking ball so no dont think im arguing against him

There is no such thing as Warrior Madness Thor. It's just berserker rage and he has never gained strength from it despite a throwaway line once in a comic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
There is no such thing as Warrior Madness Thor. It's just berserker rage and he has never gained strength from it despite a throwaway line once in a comic.

Which "throwaway" line? Odins or Thors?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Which "throwaway" line? Odins or Thors?
Thor's.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor's.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d0/2f/d4/d02fd43b94acc1b4f4f1ae630d5d0f72.jpg

^^This? Just so we are clear?

Yep.

So, NOT a throwaway line then. Gotcha.

Originally posted by riv6672
So, NOT a throwaway line then. Gotcha.

Abhi is more or less probably referring to the fluent nature of the term warrior madness and its depiction from different writers.

Or, just ignoring what he doesnt like.

But, any more from me on the subject is just trolling. Done here.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Abhi is more or less probably referring to the fluent nature of the term warrior madness and its depiction from different writers.
Exactly. It has never provided Thor with a strength increase and he has fallen in warrior madness several times.

Even Zeus has fallen in warrior madness and he was restrained by Thor and She-hulk.

Originally posted by riv6672
Or, just ignoring what he doesnt like.

But, any more from me on the subject is just trolling. Done here.

Its debateable. Thor has multiple showing of entering Warrior Madness that contradict that statement. Even some recently in Unworthy Thor.. so his argument is valid

Pre DCnu?

Omac-no
Ultraman-no
Despero-maybe
Wm thor- maybe
Kurse- yes
Eradicator-no
Doomsday-yes
Superboy prime- definitely
WWH-slightly leaning to yes
King Hyperion (Original)-no
Etrigan- nope
Destroyer (Animated)- yes lol

Only Prime.

He's also the only character in DC and Marvel that might be Stronger than Superman.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Omac. No
Ultraman yes
Despero yes
Wm thor yes
Kurse yes
Eradicator no
Doomsday. Yes
Superboy prime yes
WWH yes
King Hyperion (Original) no
Etrigan no
Destroyer (Animated) yes

This, with slight mod.

Yes, I'm using the book of infinity.

All out Superman?

Omac. No
Ultraman No
Despero No
Wm Thor No
Kurse No
Eradicator No
Doomsday Maybe
Superboy Prime Maybe
WWH No
King Hyperion (Original) No
Etrigan No
Destroyer (Animated) No

^What does it matter if Superman is going all out? We are talking about whose stronger

Originally posted by Bentley
Only Prime.

He's also the only character in DC and Marvel that might be Stronger than Superman.

Might? Are u basing this solely off Teen Titans showings or what?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This, with slight mod.

Yes, I'm using the book of infinity.

👍

going by general portrayals and ignoring any real highs or lows:

Pre DCnu All


Omac--no
Ultraman--no
Despero--no
Wm thor--no
Kurse--really version dependent. beyonder amp? yes
Eradicator--no
Doomsday--version dependent. hp? yes others? arguably
Superboy prime--yes
WWH--no
King Hyperion (Original)--no
Etrigan--no
Destroyer (Animated)--yes

I'm curious to what makes Destroyer stronger than Superman?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Might? Are u basing this solely off Teen Titans showings or what?


In my defense Superman did duke it out with Prime (with help) and ended up winning. But I see why people would consider Prime stronger overall.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Omac. No
Ultraman no
Despero yes
Wm thor yes
Kurse yes
Eradicator no
Doomsday. Yes
Superboy prime yes
WWH yes
King Hyperion (Original) no
Etrigan no
Destroyer (Animated) yes

DRUNKEN LIES!!!!

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm curious to what makes Destroyer stronger than Superman?

more of a gut feeling in my case. difference is marginal in any event. gauging the physical strength of some of these guys is tough. /shrug

Omac no
Ultraman no
Despero no
Wm thor no
Kurse no
Eradicator no
Doomsday probably
Superboy prime yes
WWH no
King Hyperion (Original) no
Etrigan no
Destroyer (Animated) no

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm curious to what makes Destroyer stronger than Superman?

Meastro comes to mind as does casual Jane (with help) ownage, mjolnir palming and constant Odinson curbing. I can see an argument for the former since Cul is like Skyfather lite but not the latter. Come to think of it cant recall if it was Garm or Hela who delivered his beatdown....hmmm i will get back to you with scans momentarily.

Originally posted by Bentley
In my defense Superman did duke it out with Prime (with help) and ended up winning. But I see why people would consider Prime stronger overall.


https://68.media.tumblr.com/3ba35b2b0df85c331c05508addf4cf2b/tumblr_msgubmXZAJ1qbn6jwo1_400.jpg

This?^


He dukes it out with everyone tho...thats kinda his thing.

Originally posted by panthergod
Ill grant SBP. DD is arguable. Other than that, Cite the showings demonstrating Despero, WM Thor, Kurse, WWH, and Destroyer as superior.

I think during "Virtue and Vice" he manhandled several Class 100s at once. It could have been a different story though.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Its debateable. Thor has multiple showing of entering Warrior Madness that contradict that statement. Even some recently in Unworthy Thor.. so his argument is valid
Not counting B&T, he's exhibited WM like 4 times. Only one WM showing was impressive. The rest were meh due to circumstances.

Originally posted by TheHulk
^What does it matter if Superman is going all out? We are talking about whose stronger

An all out superman is the one who went from barely scratching doomsday to well..killing him.

A really good example is Nu 52 AC #1 and forward. His powers were progressing simply by willing it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not counting B&T, he's exhibited WM like 4 times. Only one WM showing was impressive. The rest were meh due to circumstances.

Im not arguing that. My vote for WM Thor being stronger than standard Supes is more along the lines of him not holding back as opposed to any particular feat.

What are your thoughts on U Thors, albeit brief. WM showings?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Im not arguing that. My vote for WM Thor being stronger than standard Supes is more along the lines of him not holding back as opposed to any particular feat.

What are your thoughts on U Thors, albeit brief. WM showings?
Not sure wut u mean. "U Thor"? Unworthy Thor?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not sure wut u mean. "U Thor"? Unworthy Thor?

Unworthy

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Unworthy
It was meh. He was manhandling Bill, but BRB wasn't exactly fighting back. Plus it was very brief. Now if he did that against a higher level character......

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not counting B&T, he's exhibited WM like 4 times. Only one WM showing was impressive. The rest were meh due to circumstances.
He has shown it some more than that. But what four times do you have in mind?

And where did he kill a clone meant to kill Odin?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It was meh. He was manhandling Bill, but BRB wasn't exactly fighting back. Plus it was very brief. Now if he did that against a higher level character......
Yea pissed me off. I stopped reading Mighty Thor and Unworthy after he didnt get that hammer. I love Vokstagg but come tf on

Wow Abhi took me off ignore.

Hey buddy.

ermm

Hey.

See?

I knew my cunning plan would work. Now we're all friends.

Truly, a saint indeed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He has shown it some more than that. But what four times do you have in mind?

And where did he kill a clone meant to kill Odin?
Vs Adam Warlock
Vs Hulk (Thor was artificially powered by Leader)
Vs BRB (BRB wasn't fighting back)

Vs Ymir and his army of frost giants plus the Dwarven army which included a Thor clone complete with his own Mjolnir. Warriors Three were there, but let's face it they wouldn't be much help against a skyfather.

http://imgur.com/NLXlebb.jpg
http://imgur.com/JNJauIR.jpg
http://imgur.com/XNhXDba.jpg
http://imgur.com/3yGMC1f.jpg
http://imgur.com/qrMEorW.jpg
http://imgur.com/U2Iloix.jpg

He wrecked a skyfather, two armies, a clone created to kill Odin, and he was shaking Asgard all the way from another realm(Nidavellir).

That's impressive but where did he beat any skyfather?

He recently went in warrior madness against a dragon in Avengers endless wartime too.

Shut up the both of you and admit you got Parent Trapped.

Originally posted by abhilegend


He recently went in warrior madness against a dragon in Avengers endless wartime too.

Really?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Really?
Yes. Couldn't kill him but defeated him IIRC. Hulk later killed him after he evolved and became more powerful.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Current Superman who is an amalgam of the PreDCNu (OWAW +FC) AND DCnU (Benchpressing Earth for 5 days without sunylight)

Omac, no
Ultraman, no
Despero, no
Wm thor, no
Kurse, no
Eradicator, no
Doomsday, HP maybe
Superboy prime, maybe
WWH, no
King Hyperion (Original), no
Etrigan, no
Destroyer (Animated), no WOW! Just WOW! I'm going to frame this post and show it to my friends. They could use a good laugh.😂

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. Couldn't kill him but defeated him IIRC. Hulk later killed him after he evolved and became more powerful.

When Hulk killed it, it was just a non-moving blob power source thing that wanted to die. Definitely wasn't more powerful.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
When Hulk killed it, it was just a non-moving blob power source thing that wanted to die. Definitely wasn't more powerful.
It had evolved and was creating beings who threatened entire avengers team. So yes, it was more powerful.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's impressive but where did he beat any skyfather?

He recently went in warrior madness against a dragon in Avengers endless wartime too.
Ymir was leading the frost giant contingent.
http://imgur.com/NLXlebb.jpg

Ah, but he is not shown beaten.

I am

Originally posted by JBL
WOW! Just WOW! I'm going to frame this post and show it to my friends. They could use a good laugh.😂

Pre DCnu All

Omac - no
Ultraman - no
Despero - yes under normal portrayal, no under all out
Wm thor - no
Kurse - no
Eradicator - no
Doomsday - yes under normal portrayal, no under all out
Superboy prime - yes under normal portrayal, maybe under all out
WWH - no
King Hyperion (Original) - no
Etrigan - no
Destroyer (Animated) - yes under normal portrayal, no under all out

There's no difference in normal superman or an all out superman. It's sad that people think that superman is the only character that starts to lose in the beginning and then win in the end. Superman is a high Herald whether he's sleeping or going all out. Every writer agrees with this. Superman can only get stronger with a sun amp. That's why he sundipps. If going all out gave him even a half strength boost, then it would be noted in writing. As in, the madder hulk gets, the stronger hulk gets or the more confident gladiator is the stronger and more powerful he becomes. Supermans strength had Been measured plenty of times by scientists. No where in any superman bios will you see dynamic strength. Hulk, yes... Gladiator, yes. Superman.. no.

Originally posted by JBL
There's no difference in normal superman or an all out superman. It's sad that people think that superman is the only character that starts to lose in the beginning and then win in the end. Superman is a high Herald whether he's sleeping or going all out. Every writer agrees with this. Superman can only get stronger with a sun amp. That's why he sundipps. If going all out gave him even a half strength boost, then it would be noted in writing. As in, the madder hulk gets, the stronger hulk gets or the more confident gladiator is the stronger and more powerful he becomes. Supermans strength had Been measured plenty of times by scientists. No where in any superman bios will you see dynamic strength. Hulk, yes... Gladiator, yes. Superman.. no.

No.


Look, his power is a dynamic as it gets. Its just not as visual as say Hulk. His cap is fluent and there is a definitive difference between a holding back (any) hero and one going for broke

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No.


Look, his power is a dynamic as it gets. Its just not as visual as say Hulk. His cap is fluent and there is a definitive difference between a holding back (any) hero and one going for broke If superman had dynamic strength, it would be as clear as day. That OWAW crap is what started this mess. An all out superman does not get any stronger. He has went all out against BA, CM an plenty others. When a character is said to be too even in strength with CM in narration, by the character himself, by writers and in writing, it proof positive. Dynamic strength is not all of a sudden going from losing to beating someone or something. If that was the case, then Spiderman dropped his mental blocks and went from meta to trans when he beat firelord. But you don't see his fans making such an absurd claim.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Its debateable. Thor has multiple showing of entering Warrior Madness that contradict that statement. Even some recently in Unworthy Thor.. so his argument is valid his argument would hold more validity if he hadnt made such a practice of wiping away any statement, narration, comment or panel, involving Thor, Asgard, Odin, etc, any time there are descriptions supporting the pinacle levels of power they reach.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It had evolved and was creating beings who threatened entire avengers team. So yes, it was more powerful.

.. It couldn't move, and wanted to die.

Doomsday - Possibly Stronger
Superboy Prime - Far Stronger

Others not on his level .

Originally posted by JBL
If superman had dynamic strength, it would be as clear as day. That OWAW crap is what started this mess. An all out superman does not get any stronger. He has went all out against BA, CM an plenty others. When a character is said to be too even in strength with CM in narration, by the character himself, by writers and in writing, it proof positive. Dynamic strength is not all of a sudden going from losing to beating someone or something. If that was the case, then Spiderman dropped his mental blocks and went from meta to trans when he beat firelord. But you don't see his fans making such an absurd claim.
You are lying.

No one who is literate has this problem with basic reading comprehension.

Yes his strength has increased in power levels and its not up for honest debate.

Originally posted by JBL
If superman had dynamic strength, it would be as clear as day. That OWAW crap is what started this mess. An all out superman does not get any stronger. He has went all out against BA, CM an plenty others. When a character is said to be too even in strength with CM in narration, by the character himself, by writers and in writing, it proof positive. Dynamic strength is not all of a sudden going from losing to beating someone or something. If that was the case, then Spiderman dropped his mental blocks and went from meta to trans when he beat firelord. But you don't see his fans making such an absurd claim.

Firelord is pis tho. People need to negate is all together

Ok take Nu 52 supes for example. He went from only being able exceed previous limits by "willing" it.

https://m0vie.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/grantmorrison-actioncomics20.jpg?w=468&h=471

There are other examples but u get the point. He doesnt have a no limits fallacy. But he does possess the ability to ramp up as needed

Originally posted by Horrificus
his argument would hold more validity if he hadnt made such a practice of wiping away any statement, narration, comment or panel, involving Thor, Asgard, Odin, etc, any time there are descriptions supporting the pinacle levels of power they reach.

Some statements he makes a skewed but when he calls a spade a spade and thats what it is then i dont see a problem

More lies from JBL. Classic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah, but he is not shown beaten.
Heavily implied since he led the army of frost giants and we know Thor tore through both armies.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. Couldn't kill him but defeated him IIRC. Hulk later killed him after he evolved and became more powerful.
Dragon wasn't random btw it was Niddhog.

Had nothing to do with not being able to kill it. He thought it had perished under the rubble he left it in.

Hulk killed it in the present, but we don't actually know if it was more powerful.

Also...
Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
.. It couldn't move, and wanted to die.


I left out this wm because the canonicity is suspect. There was a foreword by Clark Gregg stating that the core group of Avengers in the book were based off of the guys from the Marvel cinematic universe. Was kinda confusing.


Anyways if u disagree, I'll agree because u are my buddy.

Originally posted by JBL
If superman had dynamic strength, it would be as clear as day. That OWAW crap is what started this mess. An all out superman does not get any stronger. He has went all out against BA, CM an plenty others. When a character is said to be too even in strength with CM in narration, by the character himself, by writers and in writing, it proof positive. Dynamic strength is not all of a sudden going from losing to beating someone or something. If that was the case, then Spiderman dropped his mental blocks and went from meta to trans when he beat firelord. But you don't see his fans making such an absurd claim.

Have you actually READ a Superman comic in the past 20 yrs?

It has been DEFINITIVELY shown that his powers are connected to his mindset. Superman has nearly DIED because he THOUGHT he was human and had no powers.

Originally posted by panthergod
You are lying.

No one who is literate has this problem with basic reading comprehension.

Yes his strength has increased in power levels and its not up for honest debate. If superman had dynamic strength, then why have writers increased and decreased his strength over a period of 50 some years? If a character has dynamic strength, then it would be pointless to even suggest it. Hulk strength comes from his mindset, can his strength be decreased??????? NO, he has dynamic strength. But drop the subject for now. Agree to disagree.

Of course Superman has dynamic strength.

Originally posted by JBL
If superman had dynamic strength, then why have writers increased and decreased his strength over a period of 50 some years? If a character has dynamic strength, then it would be pointless to even suggest it. Hulk strength comes from his mindset, can his strength be decreased??????? NO, he has dynamic strength. But drop the subject for now. Agree to disagree.

I'm going to sound mean here, and I recognise that, but I feel like what I say, needs to be said...

Ask your writer friends about the basic structure of storytelling, and how the example you just used has absolutely no relevance to whether Superman has dynamic strength or not.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm going to sound mean here, and I recognise that, but I feel like what I say, needs to be said...

Ask your writer friends about the basic structure of storytelling, and how the example you just used has absolutely no relevance to whether Superman has dynamic strength or not. They have been ask several times and ALL said that superman does not have dynamic strength where he can increase his strength by will ot dropping mental blocks. But don't worrying about it. That day will come when I convince one or more of them to let me post their names and statement. Be here with the same attitude when it comes. Have a nice day.

Originally posted by JBL
They have been ask several times and ALL said that superman does not have dynamic strength where he can increase his strength by will ot dropping mental blocks. But don't worrying about it. That day will come when I convince one or more of them to let me post their names and statement. Be here with the same attitude when it comes. Have a nice day.

lol, Okay. I like how a couple of random writers can override editorial mandate and actual published, past comics. Seriously, I do.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Abhi is more or less probably referring to the fluent nature of the term warrior madness and its depiction from different writers.

Abhi is right on this but all terms and definition have some fluidity to them.

I believe Warrior Madness was supposed to be a state where he actually does become ten times as strong, but it's meaning has since been diluted to the point where it simply means "lost in the heat of battle" or some shit.

Like in his fight with maestro-huk, where he's spposedly in WM but completely level-headed 2 seconds after being BFR'd.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Heavily implied since he led the army of frost giants and we know Thor tore through both armies.


Dragon wasn't random btw it was Niddhog.

Had nothing to do with not being able to kill it. He thought it had perished under the rubble he left it in.

Hulk killed it in the present, but we don't actually know if it was more powerful.

Also...



I left out this wm because the canonicity is suspect. There was a foreword by Clark Gregg stating that the core group of Avengers in the book were based off of the guys from the Marvel cinematic universe. Was kinda confusing.


Anyways if u disagree, I'll agree because u are my buddy.
It was stated that he was more powerful as he evolved.

Him wanting to die doesn't has anything to do with how powerful it was.

Also it had Carol as captain marvel and referenced 616 characters.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Abhi is right on this but all terms and definition have some fluidity to them.

I believe Warrior Madness was supposed to be a state where he actually does become ten times as strong, but it's meaning has since been diluted to the point where it simply means "lost in the heat of battle" or some shit.

Like in his fight with maestro-huk, where he's spposedly in WM but completely level-headed 2 seconds after being BFR'd. this 100x

Originally posted by krisblaze
Abhi is right on this but all terms and definition have some fluidity to them.

I believe Warrior Madness was supposed to be a state where he actually does become ten times as strong, but it's meaning has since been diluted to the point where it simply means "lost in the heat of battle" or some shit.

Like in his fight with maestro-huk, where he's spposedly in WM but completely level-headed 2 seconds after being BFR'd.
The statement actually came AFTER that Maestro fight. It was always "losing yourself in heat of battle" before and after.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The statement actually came AFTER that Maestro fight. It was always "losing yourself in heat of battle" before and after.

iirc one of the onlookers described it as WM?

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol, Okay. I like how a couple of random writers can override editorial mandate and actual published, past comics. Seriously, I do.
I doubt they exist in the very first place tbh.

As for writer opinions, they mean literally nothing if not published in a comic story. I can imagine a lot of fanboys, haters and others who work for the "enemy" because DC or Marvel pays better than their fave company. Some writers are legitimate idiots who know nothing about the chars they write, one just has to look what Thanos has to endure. I can't see them as special people or gods at what they do, except if they create a greaat and memorable story, like Morrison.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Abhi is right on this but all terms and definition have some fluidity to them.

I believe Warrior Madness was supposed to be a state where he actually does become ten times as strong, but it's meaning has since been diluted to the point where it simply means "lost in the heat of battle" or some shit.

Like in his fight with maestro-huk, where he's spposedly in WM but completely level-headed 2 seconds after being BFR'd.

The strength increase if any is inconsequential anyway. My only concern is him not holding back

Originally posted by Sin I AM
The strength increase if any is inconsequential anyway. My only concern is him not holding back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zFsxSH8fUA

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zFsxSH8fUA

Preaching to the choir

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-590939-dynamic-strength.html

Originally posted by krisblaze
iirc one of the onlookers described it as WM?
Which instance?

Is mr pickles having his usual meltdown?

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol, Okay. I like how a couple of random writers can override editorial mandate and actual published, past comics. Seriously, I do. There has never been a comic book ever published that has superman above CM or BA. They have always Been shown as equals with BA and CM having the advantage due to magic. If superman can increase his strength by dropping mental blocks or willing it, then arm wrestling CM to see who is stronger would be pointless for any writer. Every close loss for Superman would be due to mental blocks??? He couldn't get BA out of the city, why didn't he will himself stronger???? When flash was fighting Zoom, why didn't superman drop his mental blocks and help???? Why didn't he drop his mental blocks against that shadow moon??? Why didn't he drop them against prime????? Against HP doomsday, why didn't he drop his mental blocks instead of getting outside amps???? There are many characters as strong as or stronger than superman... But you will NEVER see in any comic book, narration, quotes, interviews, blogs, or anything saying that CM or BA is equal to superman UNTIL he wills or drop mental blocks to get stronger. Besides, superman himself said that he and CM are too close in strength to call. Now if you do the opposite and look for quotes, interviews, blogs and narrations that states that CM and BA is equal to superman or stronger characters... Guess what?? They are all over the place and in plenty of comics.

What a bunch of hogwash from a superman neophyte.

It is sad and funny as hell to see Mr. Pickles break down like this in every Superman thread

Originally posted by JBL
There has never been a comic book ever published that has superman above CM or BA. They have always Been shown as equals with BA and CM having the advantage due to magic. If superman can increase his strength by dropping mental blocks or willing it, then arm wrestling CM to see who is stronger would be pointless for any writer. Every close loss for Superman would be due to mental blocks??? He couldn't get BA out of the city, why didn't he will himself stronger???? When flash was fighting Zoom, why didn't superman drop his mental blocks and help???? Why didn't he drop his mental blocks against that shadow moon??? Why didn't he drop them against prime????? Against HP doomsday, why didn't he drop his mental blocks instead of getting outside amps???? There are many characters as strong as or stronger than superman... But you will NEVER see in any comic book, narration, quotes, interviews, blogs, or anything saying that CM or BA is equal to superman UNTIL he wills or drop mental blocks to get stronger. Besides, superman himself said that he and CM are too close in strength to call. Now if you do the opposite and look for quotes, interviews, blogs and narrations that states that CM and BA is equal to superman or stronger characters... Guess what?? They are all over the place and in plenty of comics.

You're not just lying, you're continuing to use examples that are not. Relevant. At all.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You're not just lying, you're continuing to use examples that are not. Relevant. At all. Lying? That's your opinion. Very well answer these two questions.... 1. When superman and CM were arm wrestling an was trying to win, why didn't he will himself stronger or drop mental blocks to win? 2. Why would superman state on panel that he and marvel were too close in strength to call as they stalemated ? ( CM does not have dynamic strength) heck, let's go for three.. 3. Why does every character with dynamic strength gets it mentioned in their bios except superman? Know what? One more.. 4. Why does superman only have dynamic strength on KMC and it the same fans claiming it?

Originally posted by JBL
Lying? That's your opinion. Very well answer these two questions.... 1. When superman and CM were arm wrestling an was trying to win, why didn't he will himself stronger or drop mental blocks to win? 2. Why would superman state on panel that he and marvel were too close in strength to call as they stalemated ? ( CM does not have dynamic strength) heck, let's go for three.. 3. Why does every character with dynamic strength gets it mentioned in their bios except superman? Know what? One more.. 4. Why does superman only have dynamic strength on KMC and it the same fans claiming it?

You're still lying, and asking questions that AREN'T RELEVANT TO THE POINT.

Jesus Christ, it's like you want me to keep repeating myself over and ****ing over.

Prime
Savage Hulk
Kurse

All of these peeps are stronger, the rest is debatable.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You're still lying, and asking questions that AREN'T RELEVANT TO THE POINT.

Jesus Christ, it's like you want me to keep repeating myself over and ****ing over. Well, one writer actually came up with these questions to show that superman does not have dynamic strength. He also pointed out that you all are using isolated instances vs 60+ years of the character. But to end this.. he said that the DD, HP DD fight would prove my point. Tell you later when he fax me. Have a good day.

Originally posted by JBL
Lying? That's your opinion. Very well answer these two questions.... 1. When superman and CM were arm wrestling an was trying to win, why didn't he will himself stronger or drop mental blocks to win? 2. Why would superman state on panel that he and marvel were too close in strength to call as they stalemated ? ( CM does not have dynamic strength) heck, let's go for three.. 3. Why does every character with dynamic strength gets it mentioned in their bios except superman? Know what? One more.. 4. Why does superman only have dynamic strength on KMC and it the same fans claiming it?

I will feed it to you slowly, so that you understand it.
If you follow Supermans history like for example me, from PC days till more or less 2000+ it's obvious that he can drop his mental blocks.

Dynamic strength is what might cause you troubles. Or your interpretation of it. With Hulk it's easy, he starts at let's say 100 strength and with rage it increases till 1000 or so. With Superman it's different, his limits are unknown but from his history (if all out and if the threat was big enough) his strength is as big as the story requires, even limitless if necessary.
But let's roll with the 1000. Using always 1000 strength would most likely kill most people, so he learned to control it or better subconsciously block it. He doesn't even know his limits, as seen in DCnU. So he is using 200 out of those 1000. The threat becomes bigger, the mental pressure higher, the stakes greater and he "cuts loose" maybe to 400 maybe to 500 but it's enough or not to overcome an enemy, he might not even be fully aware how much there is left in him. In OWAW and FC he accessed more then ever before, as much as he did regularly in the PC days, which was enough to one shot trans to skyfather level Probes. The sundip is another boost he can use, he can access more strength faster, it's also a nice psychological thing if you read OWAW and against an Universal threat it's also better to not take any risks.

So dynamic might be the wrong word for it but that he cuts loose and that his limits are not known is a simple fact.

Against CM in armwrestling he will use the 200, his regular self, and be impressed doing his best. There is no danger.

Funny thing is Jurgens did say that Doomsday in HP was only as powerful as Superman but won due to Superman holding back.


DAN JURGENS: Yes. Right.
RC: Now, regarding Superman in Hunter/Prey , how do you account for Superman�s abysmal performance against Doomsday?
DAN JURGENS: I always said that when it came down to a knock-down, drag-out, kick-ass fight, that Superman was always limited by his
upbringing . In other words, if you take Superman and his upbringing, his moral code-the "governors" that put him in place to make him the decent human being that he is-and you take someone else who is raised, let�s say on Apokolips, and they are one nasty, mean-ass sonuva . . . even if they only have 95 percent of Superman�s power, they have the advantage in a drag-out fight to the death.
How many Superman stories did we read where he would be in a battle and it was presumed that he was going to die or lose or whatever, but somehow he outwits the opponent? It was never necessarily that he went absolutely nuts and beat him; and I think that�s what Superman needs in those moments.
RC: With that in mind, the question is begged . . . if Superman didn�t have to worry about other people and if he had cut loose in his first fight against Doomsday, would Superman have done better?
DAN JURGENS: Yeah.
RC: Which raises another question . . . were Superman and Doomsday roughly equivalent in terms of power in Hunter/Prey ?
DAN JURGENS: Yeah. Yeah.

http://comicboards.com/jurgens-rc.php

There you go JBL. No imaginary writer necessary.

Originally posted by JBL
Well, one writer actually came up with these questions to show that superman does not have dynamic strength. He also pointed out that you all are using isolated instances vs 60+ years of the character. But to end this.. he said that the DD, HP DD fight would prove my point. Tell you later when he fax me. Have a good day.

What writer? I'll be waiting.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Funny thing is Jurgens did say that Doomsday in HP was only as powerful as Superman but won due to Superman holding back.


DAN JURGENS: Yes. Right.
RC: Now, regarding Superman in Hunter/Prey , how do you account for Superman�s abysmal performance against Doomsday?
DAN JURGENS: I always said that when it came down to a knock-down, drag-out, kick-ass fight, that Superman was always limited by his
upbringing . In other words, if you take Superman and his upbringing, his moral code-the "governors" that put him in place to make him the decent human being that he is-and you take someone else who is raised, let�s say on Apokolips, and they are one nasty, mean-ass sonuva . . . even if they only have 95 percent of Superman�s power, they have the advantage in a drag-out fight to the death.
How many Superman stories did we read where he would be in a battle and it was presumed that he was going to die or lose or whatever, but somehow he outwits the opponent? It was never necessarily that he went absolutely nuts and beat him; and I think that�s what Superman needs in those moments.
RC: With that in mind, the question is begged . . . if Superman didn�t have to worry about other people and if he had cut loose in his first fight against Doomsday, would Superman have done better?
DAN JURGENS: Yeah.
RC: Which raises another question . . . were Superman and Doomsday roughly equivalent in terms of power in Hunter/Prey ?
DAN JURGENS: Yeah. Yeah.

http://comicboards.com/jurgens-rc.php

There you go JBL. No imaginary writer necessary. Where in there did he say superman had dynamic strength???? The subject was supermans moral, nothing about strength increase. Come to one of my classes and I will teach you how to follow the subject. Try again.

Originally posted by JBL
Where in there did he say superman had dynamic strength???? The subject was supermans moral, nothing about strength increase. Come to one of my classes and I will teach you how to follow the subject. Try again.

That answer right there shows that you're either ignorant of the whole concept of dynamic strength, or you just don't understand it.

It's not that hard if you get over your own bias.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That answer right there shows that you're either ignorant of the whole concept of dynamic strength, or you just don't understand it.

It's not that hard if you get over your own bias. That writer was talking about fighting style. Abhil actually hurt his argument by posting that. Superman fights like a human, not like a being on darkseid planet. That's the Subject. Same as mongul Jr told superman.. Distractions Rob you of victory. Those were the subjects. In other words, if superman fought like he was raised in the hood instead of a mansion, he would do better or possibly win.He didn't get any stronger, he just had to change his fighting style.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Omac. No
Ultraman no
Despero yes
Wm thor yes
Kurse yes
Eradicator no
Doomsday. Yes
Superboy prime yes
WWH yes
King Hyperion (Original) no
Etrigan no
Destroyer (Animated) yes pretty much this.

Originally posted by JBL
That writer was talking about fighting style. Abhil actually hurt his argument by posting that. Superman fights like a human, not like a being on darkseid planet. That's the Subject. Same as mongul Jr told superman.. Distractions Rob you of victory. Those were the subjects. In other words, if superman fought like he was raised in the hood instead of a mansion, he would do better or possibly win.He didn't get any stronger, he just had to change his fighting style.

He would win because he would hold back less, and be more willing to access the higher levels of his powers. That's literally the point you're trying to twist to suit your argument.

John Byrne AND Dan Jurgens, for almost a decade, wrote Superman as being only really limited by himself and the needs of the storyline. And it's not some deep interpretation or subtle messaging; it's blatantly shown throughout the comics...

And then Grant ****ing Morrison came along.

Writers have consistently shown Superman as having dynamic strength. None of these "isolated incidents" you say they are.

Originally posted by JBL
Where in there did he say superman had dynamic strength???? The subject was supermans moral, nothing about strength increase. Come to one of my classes and I will teach you how to follow the subject. Try again.
ermm

Jurgens flat out says that Superman is equal to Doomsday in power but his "governors" hinder him.

Arguing with you is pointless anyway. You're just a spambot at this point.

Originally posted by Sin I AM

Some statements he makes a skewed but when he calls a spade a spade and thats what it is then i dont see a problem

Don't ruin this for me!
Abhi is one of the few members around here that, at times, has annoyed me enough to actually feel... what's that word? Oh yeah, "motivated". Feel motivated to argue and actually... how do u say it?
Oh yeah, "do things".
Feel motivated to argue with him and do things that make my... sh*t! What's that thing, u know, the thing in the head, it'mushy, some people THINK with it... oh yeah, "brain".
Feel motivated to argue with him and do things that make my brain work. It's ALMOST like being ALIVE.

So, as I was saying, "abhi is usually wrong and uninformed and has been very unfair to Thor!"

Originally posted by Horrificus
Don't ruin this for me!
Abhi is one of the few members around here that, at times, has annoyed me enough to actually feel... what's that word?

You ruined your post by wasting a perfect chance to use the most popular KMC word.

"Butthurt".

Hahahaha can't believe the moron cannot understand it. Even I whose 1st language is not english understand what Jurgens is saying!!!

What a moron, as dumb as a pickle

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You ruined your post by wasting a perfect chance to use the most popular KMC word.

"Butthurt". my god! U r right!
And here is a weird bit of trivia:

If u were to search every thread i have EVER created and every post i have EVER made in this forum, going back to the date i joined, you would see that I have NEVER used the term "Butthurt".

And, I have to admit that there have been many times that other users have utilized the term "Butthurt" and i have found it to b freaking hilarious!

And, I do realize the fact that, VERY OFTEN, abhi seems to experience the phenomenon known as "Butthurt", and it seems to bring me great pleasure every time I witness abhi in a state of "Butthurt".

So, u make a good point. I probably would have greatly benefited from a strong, fitting use of the term "Butthurt".

I know, for a fact, that I am enjoying it right now.

Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt Butthurt

Lets face it... it's good stuff!

Thank you.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Hahahaha can't believe the moron cannot understand it. Even I whose 1st language is not english understand what Jurgens is saying!!!

What a moron, as dumb as a pickle

facepalm

You just HAD to go there, didn't you.

Originally posted by -Pr-
facepalm

You just HAD to go there, didn't you.

Yes. I will not say anything else on the subject though. It is clear who is lacking brain cells and have poor reading skills, or maybe he is just filled with bias and hate.

But I said my piece.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Yes. I will not say anything else on the subject though. It is clear who is lacking brain cells and have poor reading skills, or maybe he is just filled with bias and hate.

But I said my piece. in abhi's defense, he does put together w helluva respect thread.
Just sayin.

Originally posted by Horrificus
in abhi's defense, he does put together w helluva respect thread.
Just sayin.

Um... You got it all wrong buddy

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Omac. No
Ultraman no
Despero yes
Wm thor yes
Kurse yes
Eradicator no
Doomsday. Yes
Superboy prime yes
WWH yes
King Hyperion (Original) no
Etrigan no
Destroyer (Animated) yes

I guess you don't know Superman's feats. Hint: They are greater than anything WWH or Planet Hulk has done and astronomically more than Thor has done. So WM Thor (no feats for him) is still weaker.
Destroyer and Kurse has no strength feats beyond Superman's either.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Even by a little

Pre DCnu All


Omac no
Ultraman no
Despero slightly
Wm thor no
Kurse ?
Eradicator no
Doomsday yes
Superboy prime too strong
WWH even
King Hyperion (Original) no
Etrigan stop it
Destroyer (Animated) by who odin yes anybody else no

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe

WWH, no
I will fight you.

Originally posted by Badabing
I will fight you.
http://cdn.chud.com/6/69/350x700px-LL-69a9ce18_ywHG266.gif

Lol people never learn, there is only one correct answer to"Who is stronger than Superman?". The answer is always only "alternate versions of Superman". The end. Only Superman is stronger than Superman. Just accept it, let it take over you.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol people never learn, there is only one correct answer to"Who is stronger than Superman?". The answer is always only "alternate versions of Superman". The end. Only Superman is stronger than Superman. Just accept it, let it take over you. the truth will set them free brother.

Originally posted by h1a8
I guess you don't know Superman's feats. Hint: They are greater than anything WWH or Planet Hulk has done and astronomically more than Thor has done. So WM Thor (no feats for him) is still weaker.
Destroyer and Kurse has no strength feats beyond Superman's either.

Planet Hulk while weakened shifted the tectonics plates of a planet that was splitting in half. The crazy part about it is, Planet Skaar was 10 times bigger than earth.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol people never learn, there is only one correct answer to"Who is stronger than Superman?". The answer is always only "alternate versions of Superman". The end. Only Superman is stronger than Superman. Just accept it, let it take over you. superman is the perfect physical hero. He is the benchmark and pinnacle strength, speed, durability. Plus a bunch of other powers. No physical hero is better only alternate supermen. The truth hurts but the truth will set u free

Superman has infinite strength, on every plane of existance and non existance across all fictions and realities. Even relative to infinite power, he surpasses all.

This is why he was able to rip a five dimensional being in half and kept resisting Emperor Joker after Spectre, Darkseid, and the Quintessence folded instantly, and it's why his essence was chosen to power the Thought Robot.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
http://cdn.chud.com/6/69/350x700px-LL-69a9ce18_ywHG266.gif

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Um... You got it all wrong buddy ok.
No defense.