First Form Frieza vs Krillin

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carver9
This is Frieza after his resurrection when he first showed up on Earth to face the Z fighters is resurrection of F. He can not transform into his final form or Golden form. He remains in his first form. Who's taking this?

cdtm
laughing So salty.

carver9
So salty is a good character with lots of abilities...extremely versatile but I didn't put him in this thread so can you please not mentioning him since he will get stomped as well.

NewGuy01
It's not very clear how strong Frieza was in his first form in RoF.

carver9
It was entirely clear. Gohan and I think Goku said that they NEVER felt a power like Frieza and this was him during his first form. Now remember who Gohan faced and felt during Z... including his Ultimate form.

cdtm
Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's not very clear how strong Frieza was in his first form in RoF.

We know he was weaker then base Goku at the time. And Goku's gotten stronger since.

Krillin gave base Goku a hard time and stood up to improved SSJ Blue Goku, so..

Inedian
Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's not very clear how strong Frieza was in his first form in RoF.

Immensely stronger than Krillin.

Sable
At no point will Krillen ever be stronger then any for of Krillin.

cdtm
Krillin stomps, easily.

Sable
Nah first form freeza casually killed all the saijens and blew the planet Vegeta up.

cdtm
Much weaker versions. Current Krillin dominated base form Goku, proven as equal to form four Freeza, and held off a SSJ Blue Kamehameha.

Sable
Post the clip of him dominating Goku. What planet has Krillen blown up or what race did he wipe out with one finger?

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Sable
What planet has Krillen blown up or what race did he wipe out with one finger?

laughing out loud Sorry, what planet did Goku blow up again? Which species did he wipe out?

Sable
Pretty sure people have said his kamehameha would blow up the planet, and he almost destroyed the entire universe with his fight w/ Beerus.

I have always maintained that Goku didn't gather energy fast enough like Freeza for his big attacks.

carver9
Originally posted by Sable
Post the clip of him dominating Goku. What planet has Krillen blown up or what race did he wipe out with one finger?

He's counting the episode where Goku was sparring with his best friends. You should probably ignore his comments in this thread. Can't take him serious. The other people that's debating is legit.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
This is Frieza after his resurrection when he first showed up on Earth to face the Z fighters is resurrection of F. He can not transform into his final form or Golden form. He remains in his first form. Who's taking this? Solar Flare x 100 + Kiezan = gg. Krillin 10/10.

cdtm
Yes, listen to the guy who denies Supermans obvious superiority over Goku. thumb down

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Solar Flare x 100 + Kiezan = gg. Krillin 10/10.

Against friends? Yep, it would work.

thumb up

carver9
By the way, Krillin even mentions Gohan isn't going all out against him.

https://youtu.be/oqVTzcNXQ1A

Frieza is a totally different beast.

cdtm
He went SSJ Blue. That's still > form four Freeza.

carver9
Lolol laughing out loud

So I decided to relook at the Goku vs Krillin fight again and the reaching that was done over this fight is outright HILARIOUS. Goku and Krillin is fighting and Krillin tries to out of bounds him. Goku goes Super Saiyan and asks Krillin what's next. Goku doesn't even attack...he just stands there. He then powers down, smiles and goes Blue and asks Krillin again, what's next. WTF... it's obvious Goku is trying to see what Krillin is capable of. I would not even call that a spar. I don't know WTF to call it. I just know a lot of haters went on a rant for something that was obviously not a fight. Here's the scene...

https://youtu.be/7FrnSA8ZBfc

cdtm
Krillin wins.

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
He went SSJ Blue. That's still > form four Freeza.

He went Blue and stood in one spot asking Krillin "what's next". Lololololol...

Do I need to post a vid of Goku trying?

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Against friends? Yep, it would work.

thumb up Worked just fine against Frieda back in the Frieza saga. Don't really understand the lowballing here.

cdtm
Carver's own video shows Krillin holding back a SSJ Blue Kamehameha. Even at his most holding back, SSJ Blue is >>>>> Form One Freeza.

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
Carver's own video shows Krillin holding back a SSJ Blue Kamehameha. Even at his most holding back, SSJ Blue is >>>>> Form One Freeza.

They stood there talking the entire time when Goku went Blue. Krillin had enough time to think, slap himself on the cheek and mentally speak about the power of Blue while Goku stood there smiling asking Krillin what is he going to do now. He was testing Krillin. A child would know this.

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Worked just fine against Frieda back in the Frieza saga. Don't really understand the lowballing here.

Frieza back in the days. This is Frieza that is more powerful than anyone from Z.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
By the way, Krillin even mentions Gohan isn't going all out against him.

https://youtu.be/oqVTzcNXQ1A

Frieza is a totally different beast. Yeah, he mentions it and then Gohan proceeds to do just that. Killin then proceeds to win.

Frieza knows nothing about the solar flare X 100, so we don't even need to speculate how strong his first form is. He gets blinded (ki senses and everything) and then gets cut into little pieces after getting hit by multiple kiezans at once.

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
They stood there talking the entire time when Goku went Blue.

From your own link, clown.

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Yeah, he mentions it and then Gohan proceeds to do just that. Killin then proceeds to win.

Frieza knows nothing about the solar flare X 100, so we don't even need to speculate how strong his first form is. He gets blinded (ki senses and everything) and the gets cut into little pieces after getting hit by multiple kiezans at once.

Gohan held back. Mentioned twice in that fight. I don't think 3 times would've changed your mind either.

Frieza would kill Krillin during the onset of the fight. Krillin isn't fighting Goku or Gohan here.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Frieza back in the days. This is Frieza that is more powerful than anyone from Z. And this is a Krillim who has received a plot boost of massive proportions, so it doesn't matter. Frieza has no answer to the solar flare X 100, unlike the blind wolf dude from the tournament of power, so this fight ends before it starts.

Sable
Originally posted by carver9
He's counting the episode where Goku was sparring with his best friends. You should probably ignore his comments in this thread. Can't take him serious. The other people that's debating is legit.

thumb up Goku is clearly bullshitting around.

Sable
Originally posted by carver9
Lolol laughing out loud

So I decided to relook at the Goku vs Krillin fight again and the reaching that was done over this fight is outright HILARIOUS. Goku and Krillin is fighting and Krillin tries to out of bounds him. Goku goes Super Saiyan and asks Krillin what's next. Goku doesn't even attack...he just stands there. He then powers down, smiles and goes Blue and asks Krillin again, what's next. WTF... it's obvious Goku is trying to see what Krillin is capable of. I would not even call that a spar. I don't know WTF to call it. I just know a lot of haters went on a rant for something that was obviously not a fight. Here's the scene...

https://youtu.be/7FrnSA8ZBfc

thumb up

Sable
Originally posted by cdtm
Krillin wins.

What are you on these days old pal?

cdtm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FrnSA8ZBfc&t=3m0s

Considering Goku is blue, that's a pretty insane showing. Current base Goku is > current form four Freeza, so odds are Freeza wouldn't last even a second against that same Kamehameha without going golden.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Gohan held back. Mentioned twice in that fight. I don't think 3 times would've changed your mind either.

Frieza would kill Krillin during the onset of the fight. Krillin isn't fighting Goku or Gohan here. Exactly, so unlike Goku or Gohan, Krillin has zero reservations about using the tactic I mentioned.

And I'm going by the clip you posted. Killin taunts Gohan about holding back and Hogan proceeds to get serious by knocking him away. Don't know why you're ignoring this. Krillin then busts out the solar flare and nets a win. Against Frieza, he can whip out the solar flare from the get-go then assures his victory.

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
And this is a Krillim who has received a plot boost of massive proportions, so it doesn't matter. Frieza has no answer to the solar flare X 100, unlike the blind wolf dude from the tournament of power, so this fight ends before it starts.

What scene makes you think he received a plot boost?

cdtm
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Exactly, so unlike Goku or Gohan, Krillin has zero reservations about using the tactic I mentioned.

And I'm going by the clip you posted. Killin taunts Gohan about holding back and Hogan proceeds to get serious by knocking him away. Don't know why you're ignoring this. Krillin then busts out the solar flare and nets a win. Against Frieza, he can whip out the solar flare from the get-go then assures his victory.

Or he can just beat the crap out of Freeza.

Assuming this is current Krillin, he should solo Freeza saga (And Cell and Buu sagas.)

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Exactly, so unlike Goku or Gohan, Krillin has zero reservations about using the tactic I mentioned.

And I'm going by the clip you posted. Killin taunts Gohan about holding back and Hogan proceeds to get serious by knocking him away. Don't know why you're ignoring this. Krillin then busts out the solar flare and nets a win. Against Frieza, he can whip out the solar flare from the get-go then assures his victory.

The point is, he won't have time to use anything. Frieza would kill him as soon as the bell rings.

Krillin taunts Gohan about holding back and kicking Krillin doesn't mean he went all out, lol. Do I need to post a clip of Gohan going all out?

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
The point is, he won't have time to use anything. Frieza would kill him as soon as the bell rings.


You mean like he did against Krillin in the anime? Or Vegeta? Or Goku? Or Nail?

Freeza's arrogant, he always taunts presumed weaker opponents.

Sable
Freeza Kills Krills instantly even quicker then before.

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
You mean like he did against Krillin in the anime? Or Vegeta? Or Goku? Or Nail?

Freeza's arrogant, he always taunts presumed weaker opponents.

He killed Vegeta. He killed Krillin, twice. He tried to kill Goku and Piccolo. So I guess the answer to your question is yes.

cdtm
Freeza beats Krillin as fast as Goku beats Superman.

Which is never. wink

Sable
Originally posted by Sable
People that constantly need to justify Superman beats Goku. Or Goku beats Superman, are stupid.

carver9
Dude, he said Ironman and Wolverine could solo DBZ AND DBS verse. Getting through to him is next to impossible when it comes to Goku.

cdtm
No, he already said he agrees Goku doesn't beat Superman.

He does need to look up the definition of "justify" though. That was a simple statement of fact. You don't justify the sky is blue or the sun sets in the west.

Dramatic Gecko
What derp thread is this? Frieza levels.

cdtm
Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
What derp thread is this? Frieza levels.

Form one Freeza from the Freeza Saga.

At this point humans, androids, and Piccolo have done waaaay better then that.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
What scene makes you think he received a plot boost? Um . . . Goku thinking Krillin can do just fine against Basil, Krillin beating Gohan and Krillin hanging with base Goku. Buu arc Krillin would never be able to do any of that.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
Or he can just beat the crap out of Freeza.

Assuming this is current Krillin, he should solo Freeza saga (And Cell and Buu sagas.) Oh, I thought this was ROF First Form Frieza. If this is Frieza saga Frieza, one punch is sufficient and there is some SERIOUS lowballing in this thread. laughing

Given how well he does against Base Goku and that current Base Goku >>>>>>>> ROF First Form Frieza, I reckon he would win even without the tactics I mentioned. I don't know why people don't understand that this show doesn't give two sh-ts about their preconceptions regarding power levels. We're already seeing this in the tournament with the constant "Goku let his guard down" BS. laughing out loud

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
The point is, he won't have time to use anything. Frieza would kill him as soon as the bell rings.

Krillin taunts Gohan about holding back and kicking Krillin doesn't mean he went all out, lol. Do I need to post a clip of Gohan going all out? I see zero evidence that First Form ROF Frieza could blitz current plot-boosted Krillin and ample evidence that he can't. You are substituting speculation and head canon for actual facts.

And when we look at the scene you're talking about, the context makes it abundantly clear that Gohan stops holding back (in his base form albeit) given how much he improves the moment Krillin taunts him. Post whatever you clips you like. I've seen all of DBS. It won't make any difference.

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Um . . . Goku thinking Krillin can do just fine against Basil, Krillin beating Gohan and Krillin hanging with base Goku. Buu arc Krillin would never be able to do any of that.

He didn't think that in the beginning. They think Krillin can do good due to his tactic.

Gohan was holding back. You can't count fights against friends as a legit showing. Question, do you have a brother or sister? Asking this for a reason, not trying to be funny.

Goku was holding back. He stood in one spot the entire time and when he turned blue, they were having conversation and Krillin sat in one spot and thought for a bit. That is far and away from a serious fight. Please answer the question above.

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
I see zero evidence that First Form ROF Frieza could blitz current plot-boosted Krillin and ample evidence that he can't. You are substituting speculation and head canon for actual facts.

And when we look at the scene you're talking about, the context makes it abundantly clear that Gohan stops holding back (in his base form albeit) given how much he improves the moment Krillin taunts him. Post whatever you clips you like. I've seen all of DBS. It won't make any difference.

Krillin did nothing. Do you have a brother or sister? Do I need to post a scene of a serious Goku or are you going to think? THINK!!!

Gohan didn't stop holding back. Prove it.

StiltmanFTW
Even without the whole god upgrade thing, Krillin catching up to Buu Saga (base) Saiyan levels should've been impossible...

carver9
It is impossible. Got a question stilt. Do you have a brother or sister? If you don't want to answer, I understand.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
He didn't think that in the beginning. They think Krillin can do good due to his tactic.

Gohan was holding back. You can't count fights against friends as a legit showing. Question, do you have a brother or sister? Asking this for a reason, not trying to be funny.

Goku was holding back. He stood in one spot the entire time and when he turned blue, they were having conversation and Krillin sat in one spot and thought for a bit. That is far and away from a serious fight. Please answer the question above. Regardless, they think Krillin can do well against a Majin Buu level opponent, so I'd say it's pretty clear he's received a massive plot boost.

If you wanna go down this road of "You can't count fight against friends", then nothing from Goku vs Gohan counts as a legit showing on Gohan's part, which is silly. Nothing throughout Goku and Vegeta's time training counts, which is also silly. Nothing from GOhan vs Piccolo is of relevance, which is extremely silly, given the actual dialogue during that fight. This whole idea that "You can't count fights against friends" is headcanon on your part and contradicted by the actual show. These guys are master martial artists. Unless you're an assassin like Hit and have a fighting style that revolves around killing techniques, you're very capable of fighting at your best without intending to kill. The writers clearly intended to demonstrate Krillin got stronger with jobbing from Goku and Gohan, so I don't really see where all of the lowballing efforts are coming from.

In this case, we're talking about an opponent who current base Goku (and arguably the base Gohan Krillin fought) royally SH-TS on., so the winner seems clear to me. Especially if we're talking about an OP tactic like solar-flare/kiezan.
stick out tongue

As to Goku vs Krillin, I think you might wanna go back and watch the fight. Krillin was using skills and experience to keep Goku off-balance and away, which is explicitly acknowledged. It's only when he goes Super-Saiyan that he just up and stands in the middle without interruption.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
It is impossible. Got a question stilt. Do you have a brother or sister? If you don't want to answer, I understand.

One half-brother and two half-sisters.

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
One half-brother and two half-sisters.

Ok, when I ask you this, I need a serious answer stilt. Let's say if youre Goku and your half bro was Krillin and you two were sparring with you knowing in your mind that you have a huge power advantage over him. Would you try to incinerate your brother while testing to see where he is at power wise?

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Regardless, they think Krillin can do well against a Majin Buu level opponent, so I'd say it's pretty clear he's received a massive plot boost.

If you wanna go down this road of "You can't count fight against friends", then nothing from Goku vs Gohan counts as a legit showing on Gohan's part, which is silly. Nothing throughout Goku and Vegeta's time training counts, which is also silly. Nothing from GOhan vs Piccolo is of relevance, which is extremely silly, given the actual dialogue during that fight. This whole idea that "You can't count fights against friends" is headcanon on your part and contradicted by the actual show. These guys are master martial artists. Unless you're an assassin like Hit and have a fighting style that revolves around killing techniques, you're very capable of fighting at your best without intending to kill. The writers clearly intended to demonstrate Krillin got stronger with jobbing from Goku and Gohan, so I don't really see where all of the lowballing efforts are coming from.

In this case, we're talking about an opponent who current base Goku (and arguably the base Gohan Krillin fought) royally SH-TS on., so the winner seems clear to me. Especially if we're talking about an OP tactic like solar-flare/kiezan.
stick out tongue

As to Goku vs Krillin, I think you might wanna go back and watch the fight. Krillin was using skills and experience to keep Goku off-balance and away, which is explicitly acknowledged. It's only when he goes Super-Saiyan that he just up and stands in the middle without interruption.

Using trickery, yes.

Lol... look at Gohan and Goku fight and compare it to his battle against Krillin. Lol...in one fight we have him standing in one spot asking Krillin twice, what's next. In the other fight, lol, do I even need to explain? Also, Gohan asked Goku to go all out. Goku was still holding back. Again, do I need to post a showing of an all out Goku? Question, did Goku fight Krillin anywhere close to the way he fought Cell?

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
Ok, when I ask you this, I need a serious answer stilt. Let's say if youre Goku and your half bro was Krillin and you two were sparring with you knowing in your mind that you have a huge power advantage over him. Would you try to incinerate your brother while testing to see where he is at power wise?

And by that, I'm guessing you don't have brothers. Or you'd know they can damn near kill each other sometimes. laughing

What a bizarre argument.

carver9
Another question, during the kameha show down between Krillin and Goku, why did Goku increase his energy? If someone was going all out, wouldn't they start off all of their attack at max power? Why did he keep adding power to his blast when he could've started his initial attack off at full power. Common sense here. The common sense part is, Goku is fighting his best friend. Goku has achieved God mode. Goku went Blue but he is still fighting his best friend. Him fighting his best friend, why would he try to turn him to ashes when the overall battle was to see how powerful Krillin has become? If I was testing my grandmother strength in a fun arm wrestling contest, me knowing I would win, I wouldn't try to rip her arm off. I would probably let her win.

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
And by that, I'm guessing you don't have brothers. Or you'd know they can damn near kill each other sometimes. laughing

What a bizarre argument.

So I guess you'll incinerate your brother and other sibling in a spar. Makes sense when looking at the person that said this.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Krillin did nothing. Do you have a brother or sister? Do I need to post a scene of a serious Goku or are you going to think? THINK!!!

Gohan didn't stop holding back. Prove it. Have slapped the brother/sister argument down. Has never been a factor in this series. Take your headcanon some place else. laughing out loud

Do I need to walk you through the fight between Goku and Krillin? I guess I do.

7FrnSA8ZBfc

0:25-0:29: Krillin throws multiple destructo discs to keep Goku at bay. Is successful.

0:30-0:35: Krillin continues to keep Goku at bay by headfaking a solar flare. Keeps Goku from breaking past his projectile wall. Is successful.

0:36-0:41: Launches another wave of destructo discs at Goku. Draws first blood. Is successful.

0:42-0:45: Takes advantage of an off balance Goku to punch him away. Is successful.

0:46-0:52: Forces Goku to the edge of the ring so much that Goku is forced to go Super Saiyan.

At this point, the fight is pretty much over as Krillin can't engage SSJ Goku directly. But the fact that base Goku can't lay a finger on him is noteworthy. And we note that unlike with Gohan, Krillin wasn't using his signature attacks. Moreover, we see that this goes hand in hand with Goku thinking that Krillin would do just fine against Basil, a Fat Buu level opponent. All in all, an impressive feat and a noteworthy case of the writers saying "f-ck you" to the fandoms preconceptions about power levels. It's them saynig "We will do whatever the F-CK we want and we don't care who complains about it!" laughing out loud

I've already explained how Gohan stopped holding back against Krillin. Refute my explanation. And try to do so with something a little more compelling than "nuh-uh." Thanks. stick out tongue

cdtm
Yeah, you're basically arguing Goku was holding back his blue so much, he was weaker then base.

Which is asinine. If Goku wanted to be as weak as base, he wouldn't have transformed.. Toriyama, hack he may be, had Goku transform into SSJ Blue for a reason.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
Ok, when I ask you this, I need a serious answer stilt. Let's say if youre Goku and your half bro was Krillin and you two were sparring with you knowing in your mind that you have a huge power advantage over him. Would you try to incinerate your brother while testing to see where he is at power wise?

I'd beat the crap out of him smile Little shit's had it coming for years.

I'd probably hold back the killing blow, though stick out tongue

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Using trickery, yes.

Lol... look at Gohan and Goku fight and compare it to his battle against Krillin. Lol...in one fight we have him standing in one spot asking Krillin twice, what's next. In the other fight, lol, do I even need to explain? Also, Gohan asked Goku to go all out. Goku was still holding back. Again, do I need to post a showing of an all out Goku? Question, did Goku fight Krillin anywhere close to the way he fought Cell? Doesn't matter whether it's trickery or anything else (skill/experience). The bottom line he can fight and beat opponents on that level that now and that we have to accept that regardless of any preconceptions about power levels. confused

Lol . . . you're contradicting yourself. You said we should discount fights with family and friends, but now Gohan and Goku are okay because . . . you say so? laughing out loud Gohan and Goku IS okay and that's on account of the fact that this "you can't fight seriously against your family/friends" argument is BS and has never been a factor in this series. These guys are all master martial artists and masters of controlling their ki. That and they've got magic beans that can automatically heal all of your injuries (IIRC, Gohan received one after his fight with Goku) and magic wishes that can bring people back from the dead. So yeah . . . I don't buy this "Nobody can fight seriously against friends and family!" Not on this show. laughing

You can post whatever showings of Goku you like. I've seen every episode of DBS so you're not informing me of anything I don't know about. You just don't seem to like the fact that the writers couldn't care less about the fandom's idea of power levels. And none of that is my fault. Send Toei some hate mail maybe? confused

Did Goku fight Krillin anywhere close to where he fought Cell? lol, that's a stylistic argument. I'll tell you some other people he didn't fight like he fought Cell. Frieza, Beerus, Hit, Black and every opponent not named Cell. Art fallacy. Animation is not a valid argument.

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Have slapped the brother/sister argument down. Has never been a factor in this series. Take your headcanon some place else. laughing out loud

Do I need to walk you through the fight between Goku and Krillin? I guess I do.

7FrnSA8ZBfc

0:25-0:29: Krillin throws multiple destructo discs to keep Goku at bay. Is successful.

0:30-0:35: Krillin continues to keep Goku at bay by headfaking a solar flare. Keeps Goku from breaking past his projectile wall. Is successful.

0:36-0:41: Launches another wave of destructo discs at Goku. Draws first blood. Is successful.

0:42-0:45: Takes advantage of an off balance Goku to punch him away. Is successful.

0:46-0:52: Forces Goku to the edge of the ring so much that Goku is forced to go Super Saiyan.

At this point, the fight is pretty much over as Krillin can't engage SSJ Goku directly. But the fact that base Goku can't lay a finger on him is noteworthy. And we note that unlike with Gohan, Krillin wasn't using his signature attacks. Moreover, we see that this goes hand in hand with Goku thinking that Krillin would do just fine against Basil, a Fat Buu level opponent. All in all, an impressive feat and a noteworthy case of the writers saying "f-ck you" to the fandoms preconceptions about power levels. It's them saynig "We will do whatever the F-CK we want and we don't care who complains about it!" laughing out loud

I've already explained how Gohan stopped holding back against Krillin. Refute my explanation. And try to do so with something a little more compelling than "nuh-uh." Thanks. stick out tongue

I see some improvement here. At first you were saying Krillin matched Blue, now you're saying the fight was over when Goku went super Saiyan. With that said, Goku didn't go Super Saiyan against Buu. Is Krillin more powerful than Buu? He also didn't go Blue against slim Buu as well.

Here we have Black hair Goku matching Beerus... A Beerus that was beginning to take the fight serious. Let me guess, Krillin could've replicated this showing and could've held Beerus off?

https://youtu.be/ehiw15S6O9k

During the time both Goku and Vegeta was changing Beerus sheets, Beerus hit both Vegeta and Goku with an all out attack. Let me guess, Krillin would've been ok? Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks hit base Vegeta in the forehead and he stood in one spot as if it didn't happen. Let me guess, you think Krillin can do that as well? This is trolling to its finest and as shown in the scene you posted, Goku was holding back.

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I'd beat the crap out of him smile Little shit's had it coming for years.

I'd probably hold back the killing blow, though stick out tongue

Lol...

StiltmanFTW
Anyway, Goku almost ended up incinerating Krillin...

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Anyway, Goku almost ended up incinerating Krillin...

Don't think he would've done it though. He wasn't even trying to fight Krillin that entire match, don't think he would've killed him.

carver9
The last time Goku fought Krillin with out stipulations while being in his black form, he had to wear weighted clothing and weights and he still merked him...

https://youtu.be/5JriCtkcIZk

Krillin even admits Goku could kill him.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
I see some improvement here. At first you were saying Krillin matched Blue, now you're saying the fight was over when Goku went super Saiyan. With that said, Goku didn't go Super Saiyan against Buu. Is Krillin more powerful than Buu? He also didn't go Blue against slim Buu as well.

Here we have Black hair Goku matching Beerus... A Beerus that was beginning to take the fight serious. Let me guess, Krillin could've replicated this showing and could've held Beerus off?

https://youtu.be/ehiw15S6O9k

During the time both Goku and Vegeta was changing Beerus sheets, Beerus hit both Vegeta and Goku with an all out attack. Let me guess, Krillin would've been ok? Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks hit base Vegeta in the forehead and he stood in one spot as if it didn't happen. Let me guess, you think Krillin can do that as well? This is trolling to its finest and as shown in the scene you posted, Goku was holding back. I've never placed Krillin on par with SSB Goku. At the same time, I've never ignored the fact that Krillin pushed back a kamehameha from SSB Goku. Even if not at full power, still considerably impressive and proof of Krillin's plot provided growth.

Goku did not go Super Saiyan against Buu and lost their match as a result. Goku went Super Saiyan against Krillin and managed to avoid losing as a result. And if not for regeneration and other hax abilities, I'd give current Krillin the match against Buu.

Beerus, as a result of lazy writing and retcons, is canonically far above SSB Goku and Golden Frieza (see the part where he blows away Sidra's god of destruction sphere with just his breath, whereas base Goku cannot remotely break out of it), therefore not serious in your clip. He was just having a good time there.

SSJ3 Gotenks is considered weak now. Back when "Saiyan Beyond God" form was a thing, it made sense. Now that that's been subtly retconned out of existence just bad writing. IIRC, the narrator even subtly suggest that Roshi > Goten and Trunks based on his 10 strongest fighters comment. Regardless, take your complaints up with the writers. laughing

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
The last time Goku fought Krillin with out stipulations while being in his black form, he had to wear weighted clothing and weights and he still merked him...

https://youtu.be/5JriCtkcIZk

Krillin even admits Goku could kill him. That's pre-plot-boost Krillin. And if that and episode 84 is not proof that the writers make this sh-t up as they go, I don't know what is. laughing

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
I've never placed Krillin on par with SSB Goku. At the same time, I've never ignored the fact that Krillin pushed back a kamehameha from SSB Goku. Even if not at full power, still considerably impressive and proof of Krillin's plot provided growth.

Goku did not go Super Saiyan against Buu and lost their match as a result. Goku went Super Saiyan against Krillin and managed to avoid losing as a result. And if not for regeneration and other hax abilities, I'd give current Krillin the match against Buu.

Beerus, as a result of lazy writing and retcons, is canonically far above SSB Goku and Golden Frieza (see the part where he blows away Sidra's god of destruction sphere with just his breath, whereas base Goku cannot remotely break out of it), therefore not serious in your clip. He was just having a good time there.

SSJ3 Gotenks is considered weak now. Back when "Saiyan Beyond God" form was a thing, it made sense. Now that that's been subtly retconned out of existence just bad writing. IIRC, the narrator even subtly suggest that Roshi > Goten and Trunks based on his 10 strongest fighters comment. Regardless, take your complaints up with the writers. laughing

He was tanking Buu attacks though. I'm sure you think Krillin can replicate that showing.

So you admit Goku was holding back against Krillin?

Prove that Beerus was playing against Goku. You saying so doesn't change this. It was said he was getting angry. So again, can Krillin replicate the showing. Whis had to stop it because they were going to destroy everything. You can't say Beerus was playing but at the same time saying Goku was going all out against Krillin.

That's not the question I asked you. I asked you if Krillin can stand in one spot and allow Gotenks to pound on him with no damage? Please answer the question. I don't care what you think about the kids not joining the tournament. That's a new discussion entirely. We are discussing Krillin tanking blows that base Vegeta tanked.

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
That's pre-plot-boost Krillin. And if that and episode 84 is not proof that the writers make this sh-t up as they go, I don't know what is. laughing

Post the clip where Krillin got this boost. If you post the scene from the cave, you might want to look at the episode.

Sable
Lol Freeza uses Tk and makes him explode

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
He was tanking Buu attacks though. I'm sure you think Krillin can replicate that showing.

So you admit Goku was holding back against Krillin?

Prove that Beerus was playing against Goku. You saying so doesn't change this. It was said he was getting angry. So again, can Krillin replicate the showing. Whis had to stop it because they were going to destroy everything. You can't say Beerus was playing but at the same time saying Goku was going all out against Krillin.

That's not the question I asked you. I asked you if Krillin can stand in one spot and allow Gotenks to pound on him with no damage? Please answer the question. I don't care what you think about the kids not joining the tournament. That's a new discussion entirely. We are discussing Krillin tanking blows that base Vegeta tanked.

(1) Makes about as much sense as Krillin being able to overwhelm Goku in base, so maybe. stick out tongue

(2) I never said Goku wasn't holding back, which we plainly see he had been doing once he suddenly pushes back Krillin's kamehameha.

(3) Um . . . we KNOW Beerus was playing against Goku or are you actually trying to argue Base Goku is on Beerus level? Lol, no:

imtxvMR2bAk

Blue doesn't compare either:

7kFh8ca0te4

Goku is NOTHING to Beerus and that's a fact. Why are we arguing about blatant canon? confused

(4) You asked a question devoid of context (Saiyan Beyond God still being a thing) and I answered accordingly. And no, I don't think Krillin can sit there and tank Gotenks punches without flinching as he has no durability showings that indicate this. What we do know is that he has skills and experience enable him to get the better of Base Goku level opponents.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Post the clip where Krillin got this boost. If you post the scene from the cave, you might want to look at the episode. The minute we see Goku telling Gohan this wouldn't happen.

feTy-PMUx2Q

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
(1) Makes about as much sense as Krillin being able to overwhelm Goku in base, so maybe. stick out tongue

(2) I never said Goku wasn't holding back, which we plainly see he had been doing once he suddenly pushes back Krillin's kamehameha.

(3) Um . . . we KNOW Beerus was playing against Goku or are you actually trying to argue Base Goku is on Beerus level? Lol, no:

imtxvMR2bAk

Blue doesn't compare either:

7kFh8ca0te4

Goku is NOTHING to Beerus and that's a fact. Why are we arguing about blatant canon? confused

(4) You asked a question devoid of context (Saiyan Beyond God still being a thing) and I answered accordingly. And no, I don't think Krillin can sit there and tank Gotenks punches without flinching as he has no durability showings that indicate this. What we do know is that he has skills and experience enable him to get the better of Base Goku level opponents.

We are getting somewhere. I'm seeing that you are avoiding my questions. Buu didnt scratch Goku even though he was landing successsful hits. Can Krillin do the same?

Why would he hold back in Blue but go all out against Krillin in black?

The only reason you KNOW Beerus is holding back is due to the things he has achieved whereas we know Goku can't achieve the same. Same can be said here. Black hair Goku achieved things that we know Krillin can't achieve. I asked you a question earlier...Goku withstood an all out attack from Beerus while in black hair. Can Krillin survive the same thing?

Get the better of base Goku? Naah, Goku was holding back to test Krillin strength. Krillin hit him with the destructo disk and it didn't even scratch him. Goku went Super Saiyan and didn't even use it. Goku went Blue and just stood there. His intentions was obvious.

Krillin is NOTHING to base Goku and that's fact based on everything we've seen base Goku do.

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
The minute we see Goku telling Gohan this wouldn't happen.

feTy-PMUx2Q

Lol...he said he will be alright. That doesn't mean that he would beat him and as shown during the mind battle, Krillin attacks were getting tanked. He was nothing to him and got off a solar flare that did next to nothing for the outcome. Base first form Frieza>>>>>>>>Fat Buu>Wolf.

carver9
A non powered up Goku punch Krillin and almost kills him.

https://youtu.be/KrTls3ulGcY

I need to see where this huge increase in power came from.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
We are getting somewhere. I'm seeing that you are avoiding my questions. Buu dent scratch Goku even though he was landing successsful hits. Can Krillin do the same?Which questions am I avoiding? Pray tell. wink

Buu did not scratch Goku, but this is another art fallacy. Seldom do you ever see anybody on this show get "scratched" from punches unless it is a critical hit. Krillin did draw blood though, albeit with the kiezan.

Because he is much stronger in Blue, duh! :P

Okay, so you concede that Beerus was holding back against Goku and that his showing against Beerus is in no way relevant to our conversation here? Excellent. And nope, Goku never withstood an all out attack from Beerus while in black hair and that's on account of us retroactively and canonically knowing that Beerus is far and beyond Goku in every conceivable fashion.

And no, same can't be said here as we have no point of reference at which we can infer that Goku could have tried much harder but didn't. Beerus goes from trading blows with Goku to effortlessly blowing away something Goku couldn't began to dispel on his own Beerus goes from trading blows with Goku to effortlessly knokcing down someone who SSB Goku could only stalemate. That's proof positive that Beerus was retroactively holding back.

In order for your argument to work, we'd have to have a case of Krillin's plot powered tactics/experience failing against an opponent Base Goku utterly stomps on. You have presented no such evidence. Instead, you've spent four pages trying to pass off your head canon as fact. As such, we have a base Goku who not only couldn't penetrate Krillin's defenses but got overwhelmed to the point of being forced to go Super Saiyan. We then see that Goku, Gohan, and 18 are legitimately impressed with Krillin's efforts. What's more, Krillin never once chastizes Goku for "holding back" during the early segments of the fight as he did with Gohan.

According to your headcanon, sure. According to the facts though . . . deal with it? confused

cdtm
Carver's in denial. laughing out loud

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...he said he will be alright. That doesn't mean that he would beat him and as shown during the mind battle, Krillin attacks were getting tanked. He was nothing to him and got off a solar flare that did next to nothing for the outcome. Base first form Frieza>>>>>>>>Fat Buu>Wolf. You asked me where the plot provided boost could be found at. I showed you or are you suggesting that Buu saga (or hell, even episode 75 Krillin) Krillin could do fine against a Majin Buu level opponent?

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
A non powered up Goku punch Krillin and almost kills him.

https://youtu.be/KrTls3ulGcY

I need to see where this huge increase in power came from. Sure thing. Check this out: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrongAsTheyNeedToBe

laughing out loud

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by cdtm
Carver's in denial. laughing out loud He having trouble grasping the fact that these writers can do whatever the hell they want and whenever the hell they want it. Hell, if tomorrow, they wanted Chiaotzu to be strong enough to pimp slap Whis and Beerus at the same time, they could do and there wouldn't be a damn thing fans could do about it. stick out tongue

carver9
laughing out loud

There's no need for me to reply to any of your posts since its obvious you don't look at the show, you glance at the pretty clips. Dragonball Super #18... here you go.

https://www2.animetv.to/watch/dragon-ball-super-episode-18.html

Look at it for the first time. It states "when he is asleep, he doesn't bother holding back when he s asleep". Goku tanks an all out hit from Beerus and then withstands a blast from Beerus. Please look at all of the episodes before debating against me.

carver9
Lol...art fallacy. You seem to be discrediting a lot of Goku showings but creating imaginary Krillin showings.

I never said I, carver9 thought Beerus was holding back, I said YOU said he was holding back. Get it? Anyways, I provided all of the episodes for you to watch. We can discuss later.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
laughing out loud

There's no need for me to reply to any of your posts since its obvious you don't look at the show, you glance at the pretty clips. Dragonball Super #18... here you go.

https://www2.animetv.to/watch/dragon-ball-super-episode-18.html

Look at it for the first time. It states "when he is asleep, he doesn't bother holding back when he s asleep". Goku tanks an all out hit from Beerus and then withstands a blast from Beerus. Please look at all of the episodes before debating against me. I don't look at the show . . . because I don't agree with your head-canon and am willing to accept what we plainly see happen on screen? Okay. laughing

What are you even on about in regards to Goku and Beerus? Unless I'm mistaken, this is a weaker version of a Goku who can't break out of a god of destruction sphere that Beerus can easily dispel with his breath alone. Good on Goku for not dying from a random tail swipe and being saved by Vegeta I guess, but Beerus >>>>> Goku, contrary to what you tried to tell me in your other posts. That's canon. Deal with it. cool

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
Getting through to him is next to impossible when it comes to Goku.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...art fallacy. You seem to be discrediting a lot of Goku showings but creating imaginary Krillin showings.

I never said I, carver9 thought Beerus was holding back, I said YOU said he was holding back. Get it? Anyways, I provided all of the episodes for you to watch. We can discuss later. It's art fallacy or else we reach the conclusion that the machine gun bullets that scratched base Goku's arm > Fat Buu's punches or Beerus' tail swipes. Think about these various points before you make them. And I'll side with what actual happens in these episodes over fanboy head canon any day of the week. Otherwise, I'd end up trying to do stuff like disprove that the 84th episode of DBS ever happened or spouting stuff like base goku being on par with Beerus. Get a grip, man. laughing out loud

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
Don't think he would've done it though. He wasn't even trying to fight Krillin that entire match, don't think he would've killed him.

So you think Krillin would've been fine if 18 hadn't intervened...?

NewGuy01
Even though he doesn't actively hold back his strength when he sleeps, that doesn't mean he spends his nights powered up and striking things as hard as he can.

cdtm
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Even though he doesn't actively hold back his strength when he sleeps, that doesn't mean he spends his nights powered up and striking things as hard as he can.

Overprotective wife.

Out of the bedroom.. It's always the dominant personalities who bottom. thumb up

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
I don't look at the show . . . because I don't agree with your head-canon and am willing to accept what we plainly see happen on screen? Okay. laughing

What are you even on about in regards to Goku and Beerus? Unless I'm mistaken, this is a weaker version of a Goku who can't break out of a god of destruction sphere that Beerus can easily dispel with his breath alone. Good on Goku for not dying from a random tail swipe and being saved by Vegeta I guess, but Beerus >>>>> Goku, contrary to what you tried to tell me in your other posts. That's canon. Deal with it. cool

Let's correct this. An all out tail swipe and blast from Beerus. Something that we both know Krillin would've died from. You can mention whatever what you want to mention but it doesn't change anything. The sad thing is, you keep mentioning how far above Beerus is over Goku due to outside fts but you are ignoring Base Goku fts. Here's another one you are going to ignore. Goku takes on all of Universe 9 by himself and was winning.

https://youtu.be/NHHRwgV4txI

They resorted to an attack that they only use against stronger opponents (which means they conceded that Goku is stronger). Remember, 1 of them is Buu level. Goku in base took on all 3 of them by himself and was stomping them on his lonesome. Goku went against Beerus and stalemated him but you're ignoring this because of outside fts. Goku took on beings that's on Buu level and is above Krillin level and he was winning but guess what you're going to do? This is trolling to it finest.

carver9
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Even though he doesn't actively hold back his strength when he sleeps, that doesn't mean he spends his nights powered up and striking things as hard as he can.

Goku in base didn't power up against Krillin. Do you accept this?

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
It's art fallacy or else we reach the conclusion that the machine gun bullets that scratched base Goku's arm > Fat Buu's punches or Beerus' tail swipes. Think about these various points before you make them. And I'll side with what actual happens in these episodes over fanboy head canon any day of the week. Otherwise, I'd end up trying to do stuff like disprove that the 84th episode of DBS ever happened or spouting stuff like base goku being on par with Beerus. Get a grip, man. laughing out loud

Are you implying Goku was at full power in his base form when he fought against those thugs? You are getting funnier by the second.

Lol at you telling me to think but you sitting here saying Krillin is on base Goku level. You are hilarious. You need to think.

Lol...you need to get a grip. You are ignoring Goku fight against Beerus even though he held his own but accepting Krillin fight against base Goku. You are acting like a legit hypocrite.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Let's correct this. An all out tail swipe and blast from Beerus. Something that we both know Krillin would've died from. You can mention whatever what you want to mention but it doesn't change anything. The sad thing is, you keep mentioning how far above Beerus is over Goku due to outside fts but you are ignoring Base Goku fts. Here's another one you are going to ignore. Goku takes on all of Universe 9 by himself and was winning.

https://youtu.be/NHHRwgV4txI

They resorted to an attack that they only use against stronger opponents (which means they conceded that Goku is stronger). Remember, 1 of them is Buu level. Goku in base took on all 3 of them by himself and was stomping them on his lonesome. Goku went against Beerus and stalemated him but you're ignoring this because of outside fts. Goku took on beings that's on Buu level and is above Krillin level and he was winning but guess what you're going to do? This is trolling to it finest. So because I choose to accept what we plainly see on screen as opposed to some fanboy assumptions, I'm now trolling? Again, get a grip. laughing out loud This is why I don't usually waste time in versus threads, especially of the DBZ or SW variety. Lots of koolaid drinking and headcanon, but very little objective factual analysis.

I have no idea what post episode 84 Krillin would live and die from. All I know is that an editorial decision was made to make him relevant enough to be in the tournament of power. Same goes for the other 8 candidates not named Goku/Vegeta. This editorial decision was not premised on any of the assumptions you're making (Goku holding back in his base form or whatever). Instead, we're told that Krillin super special awesome due to his skills and experience. Goku assures us that Krillin can handle himself and we see him handle himself just fine. We even see Goku getting overhwhelmed and going Super Saiyan to avoid losing to Krillin.

In an effort to prove that Goku was playing around against Krillin in base, you brought up Goku's feats Beerus. The idea being that Base Goku = Beerus (because if not, I have no idea why you're mentioning it). Frankly, the writing regarding Beerus power level has always been pretty crappy (going all the way back to BoG where he says he's using 80% of his full power, to Toriyama saying Beerus is a 10 and SSG Goku is a 6, to Whis saying SSB Goku and Vegeta could beat Beerus in the ROF movie to Beerus saying he could beat SSB KKx10 Goku to Beerus now indefinitely being above Goku and Vegeta simply because we're told he is). Even so, regardless of how crappy the writing is, we know that as of now, Beerus is leagues above every version of Goku, so you citing him trading blows against Beerus on one occassion is about as relevant as SSJ2 Vegeta having gotten in some good shots against Beerus during the BoG arc; not relevant at all.

You speak a lot about feats such as Goku get tailswiped by Beerus or Copy Vegeta shrugging off punches from SSj3 Gotenks and whatnot, but if the writers have arbitrarily decided that Krillin needs to be on a level where he can compete with Base Goku, then it doesn't matter. Like I said, if tomorrow, the writers wanted Chaotzu to to make Beerus look a baby, they could so and fan would have zero say in the matter.

You bring up Goku fighting U9. And although what you've said doesn't line up with what happened in your own clip (drop the fanboy act of interpreting each and every fact in a way that is most beneficial to your agenda and it'll go a long ways towards improving your debate skills) (Goku didn't beat the whole team by himself, Vegeta ended up having to step in to help him, both Goku and Vegeta ended up having to go SSJ and later SSB), Krillin's fighting style doesn't seem like it'd work in a non 1 v. 1 situation. When we look at the fight with Goku, he's engaging in a bunch of tricks and tactics that that probably leave himself wide open in a group battle. If he got the drop on U9, he might be able to bank it on a solar flare x 100/multiple-kiezan combo, but that's a lot of ifs, so it's apples and oranges. So no, I don't see him being able to replicate Goku's feat.

The hilarious thing about this thread is that the discussion isn't even about base goku, but an opponent who base Goku (and arguably even Base gohan now) could royally sh-t on with both hands tied. Yet the Krillin hate boner is so strong than for reasons unknown, is omnipotent in comparison. Give me a break. laughing out loud

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Are you implying Goku was at full power in his base form when he fought against those thugs? You are getting funnier by the second. And are you implying that Goku needs to be at full power to avoid getting scratched by bullets? Dude . . . seriously. Just stop. laughing out loud

carver9
Do you not see the picking and choosing in your posts? Lol... I'm lost on why you don't see this. You keep discrediting Goku showings but clinging to Krillins. If you're going to accept his showings then you need to accept Gokus as well. Stop being a hypocrite. Now you're bringing up bad writing for Beerus vs base Goku. Lol, at least be consistent. Is Krillin showing against Goku good writing while Goku showing against Beerus bad writing? Who are you to decide something like that?

Goku fts while in base is higher than what Krillin can dream about accomplishing. Also, lol, just because Krillin isn't in the tournament doesn't mean he is on base Goku level. Your arguments are all over the place. Tien is in the tournament as well and he almost got dropped from a single hit from the same Gohan who base Goku matched. It's like I'm arguing with a wall. Either accept Goku being Beerus equal in his base form or deny both Krillin and Goku showing.

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
And are you implying that Goku needs to be at full power to avoid getting scratched by bullets? Dude . . . seriously. Just stop. laughing out loud

If he wasn't at full power in his base or powered up, lol, what was the point of you even mentioning this showing. Your arguments are all over the place. I don't even know what you are arguing anymore. Not so long ago you were saying Krillin was on Blue Goku level...now you're saying he isn't but he is above base Goku. Am I debating against two people here? Split personality?

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
Either accept Goku being Beerus equal in his base form.


WUT? laughing out loud

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
WUT? laughing out loud

laughing out loud laughing out loud

Read the entire post. laughing out loud

Dark-Kenshin
LMAO! Do you even read my posts or just any part that remotely concerns Goku? Of course Krillin suddenly keeping up with Goku (even in base form ) is bad writing. Like seriously, where have you been? Stop drinking the Goku koolaid and start accepting that there's more to watching DBS than obsessing over who-will-win threads. The rest of your post is basically repeating yourself, making no attempt to refute anything I said and making random as hell accusations about me being stupid for not thinking Goku = Beerus. Um . . . try some breathing exercises maybe? I give up. laughing

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
LMAO! Do you even read my posts or just any part that remotely concerns Goku? Of course Krillin suddenly keeping up with Goku (even in base form ) is bad writing. Like seriously, where have you been? Stop drinking the Goku koolaid and start accepting that there's more to watching DBS than obsessing over who-will-win threads. The rest of your post is basically repeating yourself, making no attempt to refute anything I said and making random as hell accusations about me being stupid for not thinking Goku = Beerus. Um . . . try some breathing exercises maybe? I give up. laughing

Glad we agreed that Krillin isn't = to or on base Goku level and that for both Goku vs Beerus and Goku vs Krillin, it isn't acceptable and isn't a demonstration of where Krillin or Goku power levels are at. You Should've said this in the beginning.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
If he wasn't at full power in his base or powered upSaying Goku needs to be at full power to tank bullets is undermining his durability (grossly at that). That you're willing to do this just to defend some nonexistent durability showing in his fight with Fat Buu, I really have no clue.confused Quote precisely where I said that. laughing out loud

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Saying Goku needs to be at full power to tank bullets is undermining his durability (grossly at that). That you're willing to do this just to defend some nonexistent durability showing in his fight with Fat Buu, I really have no clue.confused Quote precisely where I said that. laughing out loud

If hes walking around with his power level at 0, I wouldn't call it such a terrible showing tbh. He's done it before.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Glad we agreed that Krillin isn't = to or on base Goku level and that for both Goku vs Beerus and Goku vs Krillin, it isn't acceptable and isn't a demonstration of where Krillin or Goku power levels are at. You Should've said this in the beginning. Nope, Krillin keeping up with Base Goku stands as a feat on Krillin's part. If I were to dismiss something just because it was bad writing, I'd have to dismiss 95% of this show and at least 40% of DBZ. And I've been calling it bad writing since that episode came out. laughing out loud

cdtm
You got Carver to bury Dragon Ball Super better then I ever could.

Guess you could say he got "Trumped". Because Trump does this to the media all the time. stick out tongue

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Nope, Krillin keeping up with Base Goku stands as a feat on Krillin's part. If I were to dismiss something just because it was bad writing, I'd have to dismiss 95% of this show and at least 40% of DBZ. And I've been calling it bad writing since that episode came out. laughing out loud

Gotcha. Base Goku=Beerus. We keep coming to agreements.

Nevan
Krillin isn't above Base Goku, but he can beat opponents of that level through technique and tactics

Sable
Freeza kills him

carver9
Originally posted by Nevan
Krillin isn't above Base Goku, but he can beat opponents of that level through technique and tactics

Anyone knows this. I think we have a lot of people that is sour about something DBS. This is obviously common sense.

Nevan
Originally posted by carver9
Anyone knows this. I think we have a lot of people that is sour about something DBS. This is obviously common sense.
Then why are you trying to argue he loses against Freeza?

carver9
Never said such things. I think Namek saga Frieza would kill him.

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
Anyone knows this. I think we have a lot of people that is sour about something DBS. This is obviously common sense.

Good, so you agree skill can beat power levels.

That's all we needed to know. thumb up

carver9
In a tournament like THIS, yes, trickery works.

cdtm
As opposed to a tournament where he can cut them in two?

Sable
Freeza kills him instantly

cdtm
Krillin wins, despite what that troll Carver says.

Inedian
Krillin has no chance, 0% chance.

StiltmanFTW
This has gotten to 7 pages, lol.

cdtm
rolling on floor laughing

StiltmanFTW
Yes, your fault stick out tongue

Sable
Freeza makes Krillen explode instantly

Dark-Kenshin
Then Frieza wakes up, realizing he's just been pwned by Krillin and commits seppaku out of shame and embarrassment. wink

Sable
Goku said he had never felt power like that before.

Freeza>Krillin

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by Sable
Goku said he had never felt power like that before.

Freeza>Krillin Base Goku then proceeded to fight evenly with a version of Frieza at least 100x more powerful going by power levels. Then, in three story arcs later, an even stronger Base Goku was forced to go Super Saiyan while engaging Krillin. Long story short, current Krillin sh-ts on ROF first form Frieza.

And FYI, the "I've never felt power like that before" line gets recycled by somebody in EVERY story arc. Piccolo has practically made it a meme. laughing

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Then Frieza wakes up, realizing he's just been pwned by Krillin and commits seppaku out of shame and embarrassment. wink

Don't argue with this sable. He doesn't even believe it.

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
Don't argue with this sable. He doesn't even believe it.

And why shouldn't Kenshin "argue with this Sable?" Are you implying Sable is trolling?

Don't insult people, Carver! thumb down

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by carver9
Don't argue with this sable. He doesn't even believe it. Says the guy who thinks Base Goku = Beerus. Yeah okay. laughing out loud

carver9
My argument about base Goku being equal to Beerus is just as valid as Krillin being anywhere close to black hair Goku.

smile

cdtm
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Says the guy who thinks Base Goku = Beerus. Yeah okay. laughing out loud

thumb up I HOPE he's trolling and doesn't actually believe what he spews.

Dramatic Gecko
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
forced to go Super Saiyan while engaging Krillin.
3ZbOPWjcbHM

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
3ZbOPWjcbHM BsMSiVn6vpQ stick out tongue

Sable
Freeza fcking stomps krillin easier then the first time.

cdtm
That and narrative logic.

People arguing "Goku was holding back", and equally arguing "Krillin is < base Goku" are going out of their way to rationalize the fact Goku turned blue, instead of simply remaining at base level or lower.

Say what you will, Goku switched to blue mode for a reason. He didn't have to, and claiming he lowered his powers to Krillin's level, when base level alone is equal/above Revival of F form four Freeza, is a leap of logic that's not supported by the anime....

carver9
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
BsMSiVn6vpQ stick out tongue

You're funny. I know you're better than this so I'm no longer arguing the point. You're mad about something concerning DBS. If you ever need to talk, I'm here.

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
That and narrative logic.

People arguing "Goku was holding back", and equally arguing "Krillin is < base Goku" are going out of their way to rationalize the fact Goku turned blue, instead of simply remaining at base level or lower.

Say what you will, Goku switched to blue mode for a reason. He didn't have to, and claiming he lowered his powers to Krillin's level, when base level alone is equal/above Revival of F form four Freeza, is a leap of logic that's not supported by the anime....

He switched to Super Saiyan and stood there. He switched to Blue and stood there. I guess he switched to those form to pose.

cdtm
Krillin slowed down a SSJ Blue Kamehameha.

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
Krillin slowed down a SSJ Blue Kamehameha.

Full powered?

cdtm
Stronger then base.

Dramatic Gecko
Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
3ZbOPWjcbHM

Dark-Kenshin
This is the same show that had Gohan get to SSB level after fooling around with Piccolo for a couple of hours. I honestly don't see the big deal here. laughing

cdtm
Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko


It's called occam's razor.

If you believe Goku went blue yet maintained a power level at base or below, then there's no argument that his power level EVER goes above base.

Transformations have always meant a step up in power. Why would this time be any different? Why would Goku turn blue, yet be at base level this time, and not every other time?

I think it's you who are making the assumptions.

Sable
Krillin stomps

Sable
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Base Goku then proceeded to fight evenly with a version of Frieza at least 100x more powerful going by power levels. Then, in three story arcs later, an even stronger Base Goku was forced to go Super Saiyan while engaging Krillin. Long story short, current Krillin sh-ts on ROF first form Frieza.

And FYI, the "I've never felt power like that before" line gets recycled by somebody in EVERY story arc. Piccolo has practically made it a meme. laughing

Piccolo says that all the time not Goku. IIRC piccolo didn't say that this time

carver9
Lol...its showing every day that Dark is upset about something. He needs a DBS hug.

Dark-Kenshin
https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/health-beauty-psychiatrist-project-projecting-projections-psychiatrists-rman15474_low.jpg

What troubles you, friend? thumbsup

Sable
Freeza kills him

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