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*Only Malak is amped by the SF

malak absorbs 99.7 % of his lightning

Vitiate dies

I doubt it.

Originally posted by Azronger
Vitiate dies legit kys

Originally posted by Sinious
legit kys

I will but not yet.

Vitiate wins, but Malak can win if Vitiate walks into his lightsaber, which is definitely a possibility.

Malak stomps.

Given that a more powerful version of Revan didn't stand much of a chance of beating Vitiate by himself, and the fact that KOTOR Revan would be hindered on the Star Forge...Vitiate destroys him.

I don't think anyone should take this thread seriously.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Given that a more powerful version of Revan didn't stand much of a chance of beating Vitiate by himself, and the fact that KOTOR Revan would be hindered on the Star Forge...Vitiate destroys him.

That was on a nexus. This is unamped Vitiate, who dies.

:/

Your attempts at getting the forum to lowball characters are even worse then your attempts to get them to wank.

Feel free to make a case for non-amped Vitiate if you wish

I'm just trying to give you advice. Personally, I don't care at all about Vitiate's standing. I'm just telling these tactics aren't going to convince anybody. If you want to accomplish your goals you're going to have to learn how to manipulate people like Ant and others. You're never going to accomplish anything on this forum with the way you're doing things now.

Why do you still assume my goals are to convince people when I've told you otherwise in-person?

Reasons guys

@Syn GH

Originally posted by Azronger
Why do you still assume my goals are to convince people when I've told you otherwise in-person?

What are your goals again? Enjoyment? Guess I just don't see how this could be enjoyable for you.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Reasons guys

Ulic and Exar have been repeatedly touted as the most powerful beings in the galaxy/history, putting them above unamped Novel Vitiate. Malak with the Star Forge amp is stated to be more powerful than Exar. Therefore Malak >> NoVitiate in power, and as that is that is the only combative area in which Vitiate has anything going for him, he loses pretty hard.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
What are your goals again? Enjoyment? Guess I just don't see how this could be enjoyable for you.

Having fun and honing my skills.

skillz*

Originally posted by Azronger
Feel free to make a case for non-amped Vitiate if you wish

Novel Vitiate > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > SF Malak > Kun > TOTJ Vitiate.

Holy moley. I'm convinced.

Doesn't mean sh*t to Azronger, though.

And don't bring Kun or TotJ Vitiate into it.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Novel Vitiate > Novel Revan > KOTOR Revan > SF Malak > Kun > TOTJ Vitiate.

Evidence for extensive growth between TotJ and TOR:R iterations of Vitiate?

Vitiate oneshots

Well it's difficult to say. Darth Revan>SWTOR Vitiate>Novel Vitiate by virtue of Darth Revan being one of the three most powerful Sith ever (along with Sheev and Caedus), and Malak>>Kun>TOTJ Vitiate by virtue of the quotes.

it all depends on the gap between TOTJ Vitiate and Novel Vitiate, and the gap between Malak and Darth Revan.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Vitiate oneshots

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well it's difficult to say. Darth Revan>SWTOR Vitiate>Novel Vitiate by virtue of Darth Revan being one of the three most powerful Sith ever (along with Sheev and Caedus), and Malak>>Kun>TOTJ Vitiate by virtue of the quotes.

it all depends on the gap between TOTJ Vitiate and Novel Vitiate, and the gap between Malak and Darth Revan.

The Darth Revan quote was debunked.

By what?

Originally posted by Azronger
Evidence for extensive growth between TotJ and TOR:R iterations of Vitiate?

The Revan Novel, which shows Vitiate being above somenone who's far stronger than SF Malak.

Where is the evidence that "Revan Reborn" was "far stronger" than Darth Malak?
To the dogs with that, where is the evidence that Reborn Revan was far stronger than the Revan earlier in the novel?
Where is the evidence that Early Novel Revan wouldn't do much better than what Reborn Revan did, especially since Reborn Revan was immensely hindered by not using the force for 3 solid years( and having remnants of force hindering drugs in his system), and in the presence of one of the strongest dark side nexuses in the galaxy.
And it did hinder him, because he was predominantly a light side user and he even said that the dark side clouded his sight on Dromund Kaas. If he was using both sides together, the presence of the Nexus wouldn't have an effect on him.

Originally posted by BlueTiger1144
Where is the evidence that "Revan Reborn" was "far stronger" than Darth Malak?

The fact that KOTOR Revan who, as you would put it, was "immensely hindered" by the nexus of the Star Forge, having fought through hordes of sith, advanced droids, and Bastila, still defeated an SF Malak who had 8 jedi bodies to replenish his force energies. KOTOR Revan is inferior to Revan Reborn, due to the fact that Revan Reborn has full mastery of the dark side due to recovering all his memories (i.e. the memories of when he was Darth Revan, the libraries of Malachor V, "all the knowledge he could have learned" from the Jedi Order prior to the Mando Wars, etc).



Originally posted by BlueTiger1144
To the dogs with that, where is the evidence that Reborn Revan was far stronger than the Revan earlier in the novel?

Answered above.

Originally posted by BlueTiger1144
Where is the evidence that Early Novel Revan wouldn't do much better than what Reborn Revan did, especially since Reborn Revan was immensely hindered by not using the force for 3 solid years( and having remnants of force hindering drugs in his system), and in the presence of one of the strongest dark side nexuses in the galaxy.
And it did hinder him, because he was predominantly a light side user and he even said that the dark side clouded his sight on Dromund Kaas. If he was using both sides together, the presence of the Nexus wouldn't have an effect on him.

First of all, Scourge gives Revan medication to flush the drugs out of his system. Also considering that Revan has the ability to flush out toxins himself, and having a day to recover, I see no evidence anywhere pointing towards the idea Revan was hindered from the drugs while fighting Vitiate.

Revan not having used the force for 3 solid years sure didn't seem to affect him after having the drugs purged from his system, recovering all his force knowledge, and casually catching and deflecting Nyriss's charged FLS. It's pretty clear that Revan after getting his mask/memories back isn't incredibly hindered, and certainly not to the point that he's weaker than an "immensely hindered" KOTOR Revan.

And it's explicitly stated in the Revan Novel that Revan draws on both the light and dark sides on the force for strength. Just because the dark side "clouds his vision", doesn't mean the nexus is severely hindering him.

You're going to have to really reach to argue SF Malak > Revan Reborn > Vitiate.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Revan Novel, which shows Vitiate being above somenone who's far stronger than SF Malak.

Only with the aid of Dromund Kaas' nexus. He doesn't have that here.

Vitiate wins easily.

Originally posted by Azronger
Only with the aid of Dromund Kaas' nexus. He doesn't have that here.
vitiate vs revan was like yoda vs sidious, no nexus would obvs make revan>vitiate

Originally posted by Azronger
Only with the aid of Dromund Kaas' nexus. He doesn't have that here.

And Malak had the benefit of 8 Jedi bodies to replenish, and the ability to fight against a weaker version of Revan who would be even more weakened (since he doesn't draw on the DS in KOTOR) who had just fought through the SF.

Malak gets curbed.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And Malak had the benefit of 8 Jedi bodies to replenish, and the ability to fight against a weaker version of Revan who would be even more weakened (since he doesn't draw on the DS in KOTOR) who had just fought through the SF.

Malak gets curbed.

I fail to see the connection to non-amped novel Vitiate. Your claims of him being curbed are baseless.

Az is a pretty strong troll at this point not gonna lie. Take your L's, everybody.

Originally posted by ChocolateMuesli
Az is a pretty strong troll at this point not gonna lie. Take your L's, everybody.

Az trolls in the same way I hit on girls. Being completely oblivious to the fact that I even did anything.

cringe

Originally posted by TheMuser
Az trolls in the same way I hit on girls. Being completely oblivious to the fact that I even did anything.

10/10 comment Muser

If Malak is legit far more powerful than Kun then he wins here.

Crazy how much that single quote has raised Malak's stock.

It does not raise him above the Revan that NoVitiate shat on, though. It overall just lowers Kun.

SWTOR Vitiate > Novel Vitiate >=< Revan Reborn > Revan Redeemed > Malak > Kun > Post Nathema Vitiate.

Depending on the gap between Revan and novel Vitiate if Revan is his superior, Malak could very well be above novel Vitiate.

How is Revan superior to Novel Vitiate when he lost as emphatically as it gets?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
How is Revan superior to Novel Vitiate when he lost as emphatically as it gets?
I'm sure that's why Vitiate needed to either charge up his energy or use a distraction to his advantage to beat Revan.

Oh, wait, what?



Not that Revan is superior to Vitiate, though.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
How is Revan superior to Novel Vitiate when he lost as emphatically as it gets?

Vitiate was on a dark side nexus. His feat against Revan does not reflect his natural power level. On the other hand we have multiple quotes putting both Ulic Qel-Droma and Exar Kun above unamped novel Vitiate, and there's a quote putting SF Malak far above Kun. Revan defeated SF Malak nine times in a row while the latter constantly replenished himself, and then grew even more powerful from there. You do the math on how these characters stack up against Vitiate. I wouldn't favor the Shit Emperor's chances.

Suplly the quote where the nexus amped Vitiate vastly above normal levels and significantly lowered Revan.

And now, clouding his vision of the future doesn't prove anything.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Suplly the quote where the nexus amped Vitiate vastly above normal levels and significantly lowered Revan.

And now, clouding his vision of the future doesn't prove anything.

No quote is needed. One can deduce the nexus' impact based on what I just described above.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm sure that's why Vitiate needed to either charge up his energy
Vitiate charged up his energy? Cheater

So no actual proof?

Gotcha.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm sure that's why Vitiate needed to either charge up his energy or use a distraction to his advantage to beat Revan.

Oh, wait, what?



Not that Revan is superior to Vitiate, though.


You mean all the while Revan failed to hurt Vitiate even once with his own power, and his best attack only threw him back some meters, even when the Vitiate was practically unprotected?

Yeah.

Vitiate wins, too powerful, and the Novel Vitiate>Revan Reborn>KotOR Revan>SF Malak chain is hard to deny. Wanted to point one thing out about the Revan vs SF Malak duel that I think might have been missed, though.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The fact that KOTOR Revan who, as you would put it, was "immensely hindered" by the nexus of the Star Forge, By the time he reached Malak, Revan would have been wearing robes forged purely from the energy of the Star Forge that were said to 'focus the inherent force abilities of the wearer, fuelling their power' (not sure if there is any explicit evidence that Revan acquired them, but he logically would not have passed up the opportunity) . Those robes would cancel out the nexus, since they were imbued with Star Forge energies, making the net negative effect small or near-negligible. Malak still would have been amped by a large amount, admittedly, and Revan wouldn't have acquired those robes until the very later stages of his SF run, but he wouldn't have been 'immensely' hindered by the time he got to Malak.

Nah. Revan wore the Qel-Droma robes against Malak, not the Star Forge robes.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah. Revan wore the Qel-Droma robes against Malak, not the Star Forge robes. Why would he though? The Star Forge Robes would have been far more potent and would have allowed him to circumvent the hindrances from the Star Forge, allowing him to use force powers more freely (his strong suit). I'm also not sure what artwork is canon and which is not, but some seem to depict Revan wearing SF/Revan-style robes.

Well, Qel-Droma had a vision of Revan defeating Malak in his robes.

http://i.imgur.com/oSgm4J7.png

I see no reason why that vision would be wrong. It seems like a moment of enlightenment before death. He even knows the name Revan, somehow.

So, that's really the only official image of Revan vs Malak we have. The other is from an historian and historically incorrect since it has Bastila there too.

In regards to why Revan didn't wear the Star Forge robes, I'm not sure. Perhaps he wanted to avoid all influences of the Star Forge, light-side included.

Yeah, it seems that the Droma Robes have more going for it, then. A vision is a much better account than a historian who only has 2nd hand evidence to go by. Don't suppose there will be any further KotOR related sources to officially clarify it, but the vision seems pretty solid evidence on its own (especially since Droma knew Revan's name, which would be more difficult to piece together than what he is wearing, imo).

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It does not raise him above the Revan that NoVitiate shat on, though. It overall just lowers Kun.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
How is Revan superior to Novel Vitiate when he lost as emphatically as it gets?

The nexus might be more relevant then we previously thought due to this new information.

No, it isn't. It just means Kun isn't as powerful as once thought. Outdated quotes that state Kun > Vitiate when the latter wasn't even a concept, let alone a character, mean nothing.

I don't know what is wrong with you people, kek.

Kun > post Nathema Vitiate. Unless we're assuming Vitiate grew a vast amount between Nathema and the novel then the gap between Revan and Vitiate can't be all that large.

The author who wrote Kun > any Sith before him stated that quote didn't apply to Vitiate.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Outdated quotes that state Kun > Vitiate when the latter wasn't even a concept, let alone a character, mean nothing.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The author who wrote Kun > any Sith before him stated that quote didn't apply to Vitiate.

Author statements that weren't approved by lucasfilms are meaningless and C canon statements don't get redacted after a new character is created.

The fact Vitiate soundly defeated Revan, invalidates Kun > Vitiate. Not some kind of way makes a nexus double someone's power despite that being stated absolutely nowhere.

The novel made it clear Vitiate is a beast above Revan. No amount of mental gymnastics will change that.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Author statements that weren't approved by lucasfilms are meaningless

The author is clarifying something he wrote, not inventing new content. LFL's input is not needed,

@DC

But it doesn't. Gaps between characters don't invalidate canonical quotes.

There's only two options to go with here.

Either the majority of the reason Revan performed as he did was Vitiate's amp or it was Vitiate's growth in power between Nathema and the novel.

I don't like it either but if we're going to be consistent with how we view quotes that's how it is. The former feels more reasonable to me given precedents like Luke being too weakened on a DS nexus to take on a group of Sith.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The author is clarifying something he wrote, not inventing new content. LFL's input is not needed,

@Ant

An author has no authority regarding the work once they submit it for review. It's true death of the author since it's lucasfilms property after that point.

So LFL and the author can both say the quote doesn't apply to Vitiate, since they have, yet it still applies?

That sounds like nonsense to me.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
@DC

But it doesn't because there were external circumstances to that fight.

There's only two options to go with here.

Either the majority of the reason Revan performed as he did was Vitiate's amp or it was Vitiate's growth in power between Nathema and the novel.

Or, you know, Vitiate's existence invalidates a quote that was made before he was even an idea? His showings prove why the quote don't actualky apply to him by besting Revan?

Like I said, PROVE, not speculate that Vitiate wss amped to his eye-balls. And please, explain to me, how an attack that even staggered Revan, the person launching, that called on BOTH sided of the Force, did nothing but push Vitiate back some meters, despite being comletely unprotected and all of his attention was on dominating Revan's mind.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Like I said, PROVE, not speculate that Vitiate wss amped to his eye-balls. And please, explain to me, how an attack that even staggered Revan, the person launching, that called on BOTH sided of the Force, did nothing but push Vitiate back some meters, despite being comletely unprotected and all of his attention was on dominating Revan.
The attack seemed to be telekinetic based. I'm not sure what else you were expecting, considering the existence of passive Force barriers.

If it was a lightning attack or something, I'd agree, but let's be honest, high-tier telekinesis vs telekinesis rarely does significant damage.

Yoda vs Sidious, for example.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The attack seemed to be telekinetic based. I'm not sure what else you were expecting, considering the existence of passive Force barriers.
Given that Revan was basically unleashing all of his power here(hence why he staggers backwards as he's dishing out the attack) on someone who's defenses are down, I'd expect him to be blasting Vitiate away tbh, if he was remotely comparable.

@DC

Canonical quotes don't get retconned with the creation of new characters.

I don't know whether he was "amped to his eyeballs" as you put it or not. We know he WAS amped and we know it's logical he DID grow in power between the Nathema ritual and the novel. How much in either regard is debatable though we know combined they were enough to place him extremely far above his post Nathema ritual self given his performance against Revan. As I said, I find the most likely option to be that DK amped him greatly given precedents like Luke being weakened enough for him to be wary of facing a group of Sith.

Personally, I think it's most likely the impact the nexus had, as mentioned. How about you? No opinion is wrong here since it's all speculation approaching a pre-determined outcome.

It wss said to be pure Force energy and radiated a flash of light, two characteristics that aren't usually associated with telekenetic power.

It didn't seem like TK to me.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I'd expect him to be blasting Vitiate away tbh, if he was remotely comparable.
He did?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So LFL and the author can both say the quote doesn't apply to Vitiate, since they have, yet it still applies?

That sounds like nonsense to me.

That's just how it is. I don't make the rules, I just abide by them.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
That's just how it is. I don't make the rules, I just abide by them.
LFL makes the rules. If they say it's not legit, then it's not legit.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
LFL makes the rules. If they say it's not legit, then it's not legit.

Very true. But if no comment is made regarding the matter, we can't assume what the author is saying is legitimate. That'd be like some random fan saying their first person fanfiction of a canonical third person work is a valid interpretation that adds extra depth to the scene and then us all believing it.

LFL has stated more powerful quotes only apply to the time of the publication.

Thus, LFL doesn't recognize Kun > Vitiate.

It's like maybe we shouldn't take quotes from sh!t sources as hard irrefutable fact. Kun has vastly superior scaling/feats and hence I'm inclined to dismiss a source that also seems to consider bastila~dooku.

Regardless it's pure idiocy to try and use this to twist this into Revan>Vitiate when he gets outright demolished in a direct confrontation and the entire plot of SOR revolves on Revan being sh!t to Vitiate.

And yes, if you want to take an az-style, quotes are canon no matter what approach, I'm not really seeing how you can avoid sf malak being>>Kun.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
LFL has stated more powerful quotes only apply to the time of the publication.

Have they? Fair enough. Can I get the quote?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Have they? Fair enough. Can I get the quote?
Do you mind asking Harrison? He has it.

Who's Kbro talking to again, BTW?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
from sh!t sources

What makes a source shit though? That's the point. Once you start saying "I don't have to take quotes from shit sources."

You can claim any source that says something you don't like is a "shit source."

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Do you mind asking Harrison? He has it.

Who's Kbro talking to again, BTW?

Sure.

Me I think. Probably the thread in general. The air maybe?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
What makes a source shit though? That's the point. Once you start saying "I don't have to take quotes from shit sources."

You can claim any source that says something you don't like is a "shit source."
Because it has repeatedly suggested stuff that doesn't make much sense holistically or in terms of feats.

And yes, you can claim the stupidity of or dispute any quote you find to be nonsensical, assuming you've got good reason to do so.

I dispute the quote on the basis of Kun having much greater feats and scaling than Malak does.

Quotes aren't indisputable, they can be argued against, assuming you have an argument against them.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova


Me I think. Probably the thread in general. The air maybe?
You realize this is a public forum, not a hangout or pm? You can state a general stance here if you want. It doesn't have to be addressed to one person specifically, though this is mostly aimed at you.

tl;dr: I don't like it, so I'm going to ignore it!

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
tl;dr: I don't like it, so I'm going to ignore it!
that's an oversimplification, but given that you've been using that approach much longer than I have, I'm not sure what your complaint is.

Your current stance, if taken at face value, and my current stance are not remotely similiar.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Your current stance, if taken at face value, and my current stance are not remotely similiar.
That quotes aren't hard canon and can be disputed?
That's literally the only viable basis for most tor vs pt arguments you engage in.

You're not being honest what your stance is: a quote is objective unless subjectively disputable, therefore making it non-canonical.

So, in other words, if a quote says something you like, it's absolute. Otherwise, if you don't like it, then it's non-canon rubbish.

"What you don't like" meaning if you personally don't think the quote is supported by your own interpretation of events.

That is distinctively different than all quotes are subjective evidence and, depending on the situation, hold varying levels of authority.

The latter viewpoint, of course, is mine. I'm not saying you have to have that, but let's be honest here on what you believe versus what I believe.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You're not being honest what your stance is: a quote is objective unless subjectively disputable, therefore making it non-canonical.

It's amusing to see you try and tell me what my own stance is, but that isn't my stance.

All quotes are disputable and can be disputed. However some quotes can be defended aside from the quote itself better than other quotes can be. Determining which quotes are more solid than others comes down to debating. If a quote can be well supported via holistics, feats, and/or scaling, or if it's oe of many that contributes to a common theme across the mythos(sids>valk for example), I'm going to be more likely to accept thana quote which makes little sense in regard to feats, scaling, or holistic sense(malak>kun or bastilla~dooku for example). The source also matters. I'm going to give a novel blurb, codex entry, or WOTC quote less weight than say a statement from Lucas himself. But like I said, that's subjective, and it comes down to debating to determine which evidence we consider stronger.

What you just said was what I said, but with a lot of fluff around it to make your stance seem more acceptable than my direct version.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What you just said was what I said, but with a lot of fluff around it to make your stance seem more acceptable than my direct version.
Yea this:

is basically the same as this:


We have the same approach, you're just sour I'm willing to apply your approach on a quote you like.

You can stop crying wolf now.

You're not being honest with yourself.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Because it has repeatedly suggested stuff that doesn't make much sense holistically or in terms of feats.

And yes, you can claim the stupidity of or dispute any quote you find to be nonsensical, assuming you've got good reason to do so.

I dispute the quote on the basis of Kun having much greater feats and scaling than Malak does.

Quotes aren't indisputable, they can be argued against, assuming you have an argument against them.

I understand your line of thinking but I can't agree with it since there's no objective place where we draw the line. It makes debating impossible or rather TOO possible. No one would ever reach a consensus due to inherent biases.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I understand your line of thinking but I can't agree with it since there's no objective place where we draw the line. It makes debating impossible or rather TOO possible. No one would ever reach a consensus due to inherent biases.
A fair qualm. Though you have to draw the line somewhere, or you are going to start getting sh!t like
Kenobi~Dooku in force power, TPM Maul>>Dooku, Fisto>TPM Maul ect which, technically speaking, can all be defended depending on how far you're willing to stretch to defend quotes regarding them

Well, where there's conflict you go with the side that is most logical or has the most sources supporting it imo.

This supports the stance, that Revan was the strongest force user to come out of the enclave, including exar Kun. It makes more sense as to why Meetra said Revan was the strongest she had felt, since the Mando wars. Would explain why Kreia directly Comments on Revans pure power, when she knows the likes of Nihilus is walking around. The context, of ajunta pall possibly describing Revan's power as blinding would make perfect sense. Duron qel droma was shitting himself at Malak's power.

Meetra was too young to have ever met Exar Kun, Kreia thought Nihilus to be at best equal to the Ancient Sith that Exar was better than, and Duron was cannon fodder, bro.

Revan was born the same year Exar Kun died, and Meetra was 10 years younger than him.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
So no actual proof?

Gotcha.

Let me lay it out here one more time: Vitiate, in his fight with Revan, was amped by a dark side nexus. You are correct in that there is no quote confirming that the nexus amped Vitiate to a great degree, but then you go ahead and use that as evidence. What did I tell you in our last debate, again? Ah yes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If you want to start winning these debates for a change, you'd better get rid of the habit of ignoring every single thing the opponent says and countering only with a logical fallacy and nothing else. I might as well twist your own logic upon you, and claim that because there is nothing saying Vitiate was amped to a small degree, he must have been amped to a great degree! You wouldn't want to start employing double standards against me too, now would you?

But the point I'm getting at here is that because there is nothing telling us the potency of the amp, whether it was great or small, we cannot assume either. The degree to which Vitiate was amped, just based on the Revan novel, is unknown, and thus, his feats with said amp cannot be used as a demonstration of his natural power level without making baseless guesses or utilizing faulty logic.

This is where the quotes of other characters come in to fill the gaps. Exar Kun has been labelled as "the darkest power in the galaxy" before growing even more powerful, and also "the most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords" twice. His apprentice Ulic Qel-Droma in turn has been stated to be "the only other Sith practitioner who could challenge " and "a formidable Dark Lord of the Sith, second only to his partner Exar Kun." That is a total of five quotes for these two characters putting them above all other Sith in the galaxy, Vitiate included. Then comes in Darth Malak with "powers far greater than even Exar Kun" and we have a pretty clear, canonical power hierarchy here. And the best part is that there is absolutely nothing (that I have seen) contradicting this, as Vitiate's feat against Revan isn't valid.

Malak curbstomps

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Meetra was too young to have ever met Exar Kun, Kreia thought Nihilus to be at best equal to the Ancient Sith that Exar was better than, and Duron was cannon fodder, bro.

That wasn't the point. Nihilus has factually shown to be above the ancient sith. Scaling from Him, backs the notion of Revan in return malak's power.

I know he was fodder.

Doesn't matter. Right or wrong, it's all Kreia's opinion; if it doesn't apply to the old masters, it doesn't apply to Revan either. Nice cherry picking, though.

Originally posted by Azronger
Let me lay it out here one more time: Vitiate, in his fight with Revan, was amped by a dark side nexus. You are correct in that there is no quote confirming that the nexus amped Vitiate to a great degree, but then you go ahead and use that as evidence. What did I tell you in our last debate, again? Ah yes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If you want to start winning these debates for a change, you'd better get rid of the habit of ignoring every single thing the opponent says and countering only with a logical fallacy and nothing else. I might as well twist your own logic upon you, and claim that because there is nothing saying Vitiate was amped to a small degree, he must have been amped to a great degree! You wouldn't want to start employing double standards against me too, now would you?

But the point I'm getting at here is that because there is nothing telling us the potency of the amp, whether it was great or small, we cannot assume either. The degree to which Vitiate was amped, just based on the Revan novel, is unknown, and thus, his feats with said amp cannot be used as a demonstration of his natural power level without making baseless guesses or utilizing faulty logic.

This is where the quotes of other characters come in to fill the gaps. Exar Kun has been labelled as "the darkest power in the galaxy" before growing even more powerful, and also "the most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords" twice. His apprentice Ulic Qel-Droma in turn has been stated to be "the only other Sith practitioner who could challenge " and "a formidable Dark Lord of the Sith, second only to his partner Exar Kun." That is a total of five quotes for these two characters putting them above all other Sith in the galaxy, Vitiate included. Then comes in Darth Malak with "powers far greater than even Exar Kun" and we have a pretty clear, canonical power hierarchy here. And the best part is that there is absolutely nothing (that I have seen) contradicting this, as Vitiate's feat against Revan isn't valid.

Malak curbstomps
Hey Mr. Azronger, I don't want to disrupt the party, but Exar Kun was called the darkest power in the galaxy, and this power includes Vitiate when he was nexus amped. When Darth Vitiate would be amped by the nexus of Dromund Kaas, he would have immense power in the dark side, and the power of Kun is even greater than that.
So, no, the quotes are in a contradictory place.

Not going to entertain the rest of your nonsense because it honestly isn't worth my time, but I'll just reply to the select few quotes that caught my eye:



Not shit, Sherlock. But given even when Revan tapped into the dark side and released a blast of pure Force energy that called on both sides of the Force that he could only push Revan back some meters and not even hurt him to any real degree, the point is moot.

Again, even when Revan was calling on the nexus and opening himself up to both sides of the Force, the dude couldn't even hurt an unprotected and distracted Vitiate.




Evidence for what? You're the one making the claim he was amped to a degree it redoubled his strength, lmao. As the one making the claim, the onus is on you to back it up. I can't prove a negative, you must back it up - which you've failed to do horribly.

No nexus in the history of Star Wars has ever amped a character to the degree you're claiming here, unless they have some sort of otherworldly collection to said location, which was never stated anyway.





You mean the debate, where virtually no one of note, thinks you're actually winning? lmao, don't kid yourself Assronger.





Coming from the person who was universally ranked below me, lel. Dude, you're basically a punchline here, even your sweet Lord Tempest stated you were a photo negative of LeG with your SARS-tier claims.

I'd imagine this happens:

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
LFL has stated more powerful quotes only apply to the time of the publication.

Thus, LFL doesn't recognize Kun > Vitiate.
Can you Link it?, thanks.