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Sabers, Force, and all-out -- who wins and why?

Plagueis and Nihilus.

Team 1

Vader holds off Plagueis while Ulic and Dooku stomp Nihilus

team 1 takes it

Team 1

Team 1, yeah.

Originally posted by carthage


Vader holds off Plagueis

Team one, with medium difficulty.

Team one.

I'd say this depends on how well Nihilus performs. If his drain can perform, or if you can substantiate his TK as being godly, his team could win.

Vader would contend with Plagueis for a time, but he has no chance of victory, and it wouldn't be a terribly long fight. Along with the sizeable power difference, Plagueis is way too fast and agile for Vader to contend with in a duel seriously. Things only get worse for Ulic and Dooku. Plagueis versus all 3 would be a pretty good fight, but I'm not convinced he'd win...

Originally posted by ILS


Vader would contend with Plagueis for a time, but he has no chance of victory, and it wouldn't be a terribly long fight.

I think Vader vs Plagueis could be arguable.

Vader scaling over Mace per his scaling over Kar Vastor (both were pre-prime when they were compared to him) gives him an avenue of scaling that gives him some favorable comparison to Sidious, While context makes clear that Mace beating/stalemating Sidious is solely down to circumstances, there's nothing that stops sidious from being able to compete with Sidious by virtue of his own merit.

In fact, factually, per word of god, Mace can compete in general. The context of the quote does not limit this to be exclusively saber combat(and mace can compete in a duel by virtue of being an eight bordering nine). Thus we can conclude Sidious can't one-shot him with the force, which would render him being able to compete with Sidious bunk, which would allow us to dismiss Sidious being able to outright dominate him.

Additionally, Mace, much like Jedi Anakin, has hype that puts him in Yoda's general range with there even being quotes suggesting Mace's superiority/parity(though that's obviously not the case via thevast amount of quotes that say otherwise).

This means Vader gets some sort of favorable comparison to Sidious which is more than I ca say for Plagueis. All we know about Plagueis regarding Sidious is that he was substantially below a pre-prime Sids.

That being said, Plagueis has a key advantage in terms of hax and variety. Especially regarding mediclhorian manipulation which was able to counter tpm sid's lightning. Such a tool could likely negate any tk edge Vader may or may not have.

What's unclear to me is how the two compare as duelists which could decide this match.

****ing scaling is such a boring argument. Vader has no decent showings apart from beating fodder tier Jedi and getting outperformed by a sub Ventress duelist in Marek. Only a couple of impressive force feats, none of which put him on Plagueis' level

Originally posted by ThirdReich
****ing scaling is such a boring argument. Vader has no decent showings apart from beating fodder tier Jedi and getting outperformed by a sub Ventress duelist in Marek. Only a couple of impressive force feats, none of which put him on Plagueis' level

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
All we know about Plagueis regarding Sidious is that he was substantially below a pre-prime Sids.

We don't know that though. All we know is he somewhere below RotS Sidious by an unknown amount.

Originally posted by Azronger

Not an argument.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
We don't know that though. All we know is he somewhere below RotS Sidious by an unknown amount.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
We don't know that though. All we know is he somewhere below RotS Sidious by an unknown amount.
No, we know he's substantially below TPM Sidious because TPM Sidious grew substantially more powerful after already being on Plagueis' level.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
>we know he's substantially below TPM Sidious

>because TPM Sidious grew substantially more powerful after already being on Plagueis' level.

???

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
???
He grew substantially after killing Plageuis and hence is substantially more powerful.

Quotes?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Quotes?

Cool quote. Now where's the statement saying he grew substantially in power?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Cool quote. Now where's the statement saying he grew substantially in power?
The "gravatic shift" part tells me it's substantial. The description as a whole seems to be driving at the growth not being minor.

Nowhere in your quote doesn't it mention a permanent growth. :/

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Nowhere in your quote doesn't it mention a permanent growth. :/
So you're saying Sidious got the power, and it suddenly left him?

Wanna quote that part for me?

Sidious feeling like he was bursting with power during his triumphant ascendancy as the Dark Lord of the Sith doesn't equate to a significant permanent power growth...

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Sidious feeling like he was bursting with power during his triumphant ascendancy as the Dark Lord of the Sith doesn't equate to a significant permanent power growth...
I've just shown Sidious gained power.

If you want to assert that he lost the power immediately after that, you're going to have to substantiate your assertion.

I guess what I'm saying is that, in my opinion, the text doesn't support your interpretation of events. I can't prove you wrong though so while I may not agree, I still respect your position.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I guess what I'm saying is that, in my opinion, the text doesn't support your interpretation of events. I can't prove you wrong though so while I may not agree, I still respect your position.
Fine whatever, we can agree to disagree. Maybe AZ will pick it up for me.

You mean like he does in all of your debates?

Nihilus' drain can't be blocked by any of these guys, fact.

Nihilus' telekinesis is outrageously more impressive than any of these guys too.

He's also got Plagueis, who is also more powerful than anyone on team 1.