Darth Wyyrlok III (ILS) versus Emperor Arcann (XSUPREMEXSKILLZ)

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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
This isn't a formal WOT debate or some shit, though it could become something like that, who knows. Judges aren't necessary. Fight takes place in the Eternal Throne Room.

ILS
awshit you put my name in the title, now I need to win

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I wasn't gonna let other chiggers defile this thread

RHaggis
Interesting...

ILS
Why doesn't Wyyrlok mindrape, given his credentials in that field?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
As per ILS's request, here's my quick post on the matter:

Much of the hype regarding Arcann's standing in the mythos is his relation to the Hero of Tython. To preface, Arcann's main feat is his absolute dominance over the Hero of Tython in Chapter 8 of KOTFE:

https://youtu.be/9VHrjv0MSy8?t=1345

Even with HK-55's help, the Outlander stood absolutely no chance against Arcann whatsoever. Arcann has him backpeddling throughout the fight, knocks him on his ass with a force push, knocks him back again with a force push, and then force pull stabs him ala Dooku vs. Master Tiplee.

It's important to note just how powerful the Hero of Tython is. In Act 3 he literally fights through Kaas City, the Imperial Guard (i.e. the most elite non-force sensitive warriors in the Empire, who can draw on Vitiate's power when in close proximity to him,) various sith, and then the Emperor himself. Keep in mind that the Emperor, even at this point, was so powerful that Lord Scourge would have been incapable of resisting the Emperor's "direct influence" (much less be capable of taking him on in a fight). Keep in mind that Lord Scourge stalemated Act 2 Hero of Tython:



Keep in mind that the Hero of Tython as of the end of Act 1 is noted to be the most powerful jedi in the order various times by various different jedi (which would include the likes of Satele Shan and the Barsen'thor):













etc. The point being, even in the vanilla game, the Hero of Tython is probably the most powerful jedi in the order, and certainly by the end of Act 3 he's far and away the strongest (excluding the Barsen'thor).

Keep in mind that the Kaas nexus in and of itself is so powerful that it straight up turned Katarn to the dark side, and severely clogged Luke and Jaina's senses. The Dark Temple, however, is even more powerful. It literally drove thousands of slaves and even sith lords mad:



Case in point, this is an absurdly impressive feat for the Hero of Tython, and he only grows stronger throughout the Dread War and SOR. Now, some have said that the imperfect carbonite freezing may have been hindering the Outlander in his fight with Arcann, but this has literally no basis in evidence whatsoever, and is irrelevant anyways. Why? Because in KOTFE Chapter 12, even after Valkorion gives the Outlander a boon of power, it's heavily implied that the Outlander would not stand a chance against Arcann:





So essentially, in order to defeat Arcann, the Outlander needed:

1. A boon of power from Valkorion.

2. A lightsaber meant to "guide the will of the force" that specifically increased the Outlander's power when fighting Arcann.

3. Embracing a new perspective/philosophy to increase his connection to the force.

And even then, the Outlander gets brought to his knees right quick at the start of the fight with Arcann, requiring Valkorion to defend him from Arcann's blade:

https://youtu.be/058EeTq8uYk?t=5

Essentially, Arcann's power was completely beyond the domain even of the absolute most powerful jedi and sith of his era. It required a bevy of amps and boosts on the part of the Outlander to defeat Arcann in a relatively close fight. I'm not seeing how Wyyrlok defeats him.

twotter
ILS has made a return. Good. Doth thou feel the dust settling after various Maul humiliations?

MythLord
YAAAAAS! T4V?

Azronger
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
As per ILS's request, here's my quick post on the matter:

Much of the hype regarding Arcann's standing in the mythos is his relation to the Hero of Tython. To preface, Arcann's main feat is his absolute dominance over the Hero of Tython in Chapter 8 of KOTFE:

https://youtu.be/9VHrjv0MSy8?t=1345

Even with HK-55's help, the Outlander stood absolutely no chance against Arcann whatsoever. Arcann has him backpeddling throughout the fight, knocks him on his ass with a force push, knocks him back again with a force push, and then force pull stabs him ala Dooku vs. Master Tiplee.

It's important to note just how powerful the Hero of Tython is. In Act 3 he literally fights through Kaas City, the Imperial Guard (i.e. the most elite non-force sensitive warriors in the Empire, who can draw on Vitiate's power when in close proximity to him,) various sith, and then the Emperor himself. Keep in mind that the Emperor, even at this point, was so powerful that Lord Scourge would have been incapable of resisting the Emperor's "direct influence" (much less be capable of taking him on in a fight). Keep in mind that Lord Scourge stalemated Act 2 Hero of Tython:



Keep in mind that the Hero of Tython as of the end of Act 1 is noted to be the most powerful jedi in the order various times by various different jedi (which would include the likes of Satele Shan and the Barsen'thor):













etc. The point being, even in the vanilla game, the Hero of Tython is probably the most powerful jedi in the order, and certainly by the end of Act 3 he's far and away the strongest (excluding the Barsen'thor).

Keep in mind that the Kaas nexus in and of itself is so powerful that it straight up turned Katarn to the dark side, and severely clogged Luke and Jaina's senses. The Dark Temple, however, is even more powerful. It literally drove thousands of slaves and even sith lords mad:



Case in point, this is an absurdly impressive feat for the Hero of Tython, and he only grows stronger throughout the Dread War and SOR. Now, some have said that the imperfect carbonite freezing may have been hindering the Outlander in his fight with Arcann, but this has literally no basis in evidence whatsoever, and is irrelevant anyways. Why? Because in KOTFE Chapter 12, even after Valkorion gives the Outlander a boon of power, it's heavily implied that the Outlander would not stand a chance against Arcann:





So essentially, in order to defeat Arcann, the Outlander needed:

1. A boon of power from Valkorion.

2. A lightsaber meant to "guide the will of the force" that specifically increased the Outlander's power when fighting Arcann.

3. Embracing a new perspective/philosophy to increase his connection to the force.

And even then, the Outlander gets brought to his knees right quick at the start of the fight with Arcann, requiring Valkorion to defend him from Arcann's blade:

https://youtu.be/058EeTq8uYk?t=5

Essentially, Arcann's power was completely beyond the domain even of the absolute most powerful jedi and sith of his era. It required a bevy of amps and boosts on the part of the Outlander to defeat Arcann in a relatively close fight. I'm not seeing how Wyyrlok defeats him.

Shit post smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Why so mean? sad

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Why so mean? sad
AZ's triggered I dared to post on his thread sad

FreshestSlice
LS1tNy9zAKE

Selenial
This should be a good scrap, looking forward to it.

Do not disappoint, sword swallower smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You're worried about him disappointing moreso than myself?

Deronn_solo
A battle between equals, this should be good.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Thanks.

TheMuser
ILS came out of retirement for this?

carthage
It's either he debates or kills poor Mexicans working at factory farms, take your pick the man is a vile racist

Selenial
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You're worried about him disappointing moreso than myself?

He's out of practice, and repping mah boi Wyyrlok. You disappointed me as soon as you picked Arcann yes

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Arcann bodies Traya. smilesmilesmile

Selenial
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Arcann bodies Traya. smilesmilesmile

CaV after this one's done? smile smile smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
On KMC? Absolutely. smilesmilesmile

Can I use Act 3 HoT instead, though?

Selenial
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
On KMC? Absolutely. smilesmilesmile

Can I use Act 3 HoT instead, though?

Formatting tho sad sad sad

I don't give a ****, but sure. Worried about telepathy? smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I find KMC much simpler than CV tbh.

Nah, not worried about TP, though in the past 20 seconds I did think about it. smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
ILS? sad

Deronn_solo
Damn, 10 days and my nigga ILS didn't reply.

Will this be a one-shot for Skillz? :>

ILS
Wyyrlok mind rapes

Lets take it to the votes guys

UCanShootMyNova
Damn. ILS stomped.

1-0

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by ILS
Wyyrlok mind rapes

Lets take it to the votes guys

Why'd you have me make this thread if you ain't finna respond?

UCanShootMyNova
He did respond. Didn't you read his post?

DarthAnt66
Good debate. I thought the points articulated by Skillz was strong, but I thought he addressed the Force lightning issue poorly. ILS' comparison between Wyyrlok and Krayt was great and ultimately supreme. I'm going to have to give him the vote, but overall it was an impressive debate for all parties.

ChocolateMuesli
the vegan is taking lots of Ls atm

UCanShootMyNova
What you talking about Jack? It's 2-0 in his favor so far.

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Arcann bodies Traya. smilesmilesmile

Act III HoT is enough to godcurb her.

ILS
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
What you talking about Jack? It's 2-0 in his favor so far. thumb up

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by ILS
thumb up
You forgot one:
Originally posted by ChocolateMuesli
the vegan is taking lots of Ls atm
I'm also voting for Skillz, so that leaves things knotted at 2 I'm afraid smile

Ursumeles
Skillz couldn't counter that Wyr would play with Arcann's mind, and wasn't able to prove Arcann would be able to compete with Antares Draco, let alone Wyyrlok.
ILS stomped.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Ursumeles

ILS stomped.
And yet each side has 3 votes confused

Azronger
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Skillz couldn't counter that Wyr would play with Arcann's mind, and wasn't able to prove Arcann would be able to compete with Antares Draco, let alone Wyyrlok.

In a nutshell, yes.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
And yet each side has 3 votes confused 3 votes for Skillz? You, Jack and...?

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Ursumeles
3 votes for Skillz? You, Jack and...?
dc

Selenial
no counter to the Wyyrlok mind raping on page 1, gonna have to give this to ILS.

MythLord
Yeah, ILS murked. No respectable counter was offered to Wyyrlok's TP and sorcery.

5:3 in favour of ILS.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
dc
U mean this? Dc posted it before ILS even posted his counter lol

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, ILS murked. No respectable counter was offered to Wyyrlok's TP and sorcery.

5:3 in favour of ILS.
Did you miss Skill's brilliant outline of how OKC Durant's rating as a 97 proves Wyyrlok's telepathy is irrelevant?

MythLord
It was countered sufficiently.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Ursumeles
U mean this? Dc posted it before ILS even posted his counter lol
D.C. knew how ILS would respond when faced with a daunting opener... from personal experience.

Selenial
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Act III HoT is enough to godcurb her.

CaV? smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I already asked you for that.

ILS
skillz, it looks like I've successfully oneshotted you in one sentence

I have now reached the level of the legendary caseiden

UCanShootMyNova
thumb up

Haschwalth
I'd have to give it to ILS, that sentence, extremely complex, and I gained a whole lot of knowledge from it.

slayne
Wasn't even fair to call it a debate, tbh. ILS raped.

Selenial
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I already asked you for that.

We're doing a more fun one than that. I'd only do something that dull with him because the arguments made on his end would be outrageously entertaining.

Besides, I don't think you'd say Act III HoT would 'godcurb' Traya, would you?

Selenial
Originally posted by ILS
skillz, it looks like I've successfully oneshotted you in one sentence

I have now reached the level of the legendary caseiden

Is he still presumed to have fully an'd or is he back?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Selenial
We're doing a more fun one than that. I'd only do something that dull with him because the arguments made on his end would be outrageously entertaining.

Besides, I don't think you'd say Act III HoT would 'godcurb' Traya, would you?

I've kind of lowered KOTOR 2 a bit recently, need to be re-conditioned by you and Nova regarding its strength. I've lowered Nihilus below Vader, ffs. sad

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I've lowered Nihilus below Vader, ffs. sad

Bro. I wank someone who would directly benefit from that kind of placement and even I don't go that far...

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by Selenial
Besides, I don't think you'd say Act III HoT would 'godcurb' Traya, would you?

I retract my previous statement. On a second note, Act II HoT would be a better match to Traya.

Selenial
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I've kind of lowered KOTOR 2 a bit recently, need to be re-conditioned by you and Nova regarding its strength. I've lowered Nihilus below Vader, ffs. sad

Hmm, perhaps the HoT vs Traya debate would be necessary then. You read my post to Wollf or nah? mmm

TBH I don't even 'rank' Nihilus anymore, I have no idea what to think of him. He's inherently self contradicting.

Selenial
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
I retract my previous statement. On a second note, Act II HoT would be a better match to Traya.
CaV. I'll even give you Act III Hero, just for the banter.

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by Selenial
CaV. I'll even give you Act III Hero, just for the banter.

Only if you make the opener. smile Are you really sure you want me to use Act III HoT?

Just to satisfy my curiosity: where do you rank Traya in relation to TOR characters?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Selenial
Hmm, perhaps the HoT vs Traya debate would be necessary then. You read my post to Wollf or nah? mmm

TBH I don't even 'rank' Nihilus anymore, I have no idea what to think of him. He's inherently self contradicting.

1. Yeah, and I'm not sure I'm convinced on the validity or usefulness of the game engine descriptions or whatever they're called. Do you have conclusive evidence on their validity?

2. Well, Nihilus shits on Traya, and I have him below Vader, was my point.

The Lost
WHOA. You have Nihilus below Vader? I'm interested to hear this. Why?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Dunno. KOTOR 2 in general is just weird for me atm. Nihilus absolutely has far better feats than Vader, don't get me wrong. KOTOR 2 is just a very upscaled medium in general (I.e. In the context of KOTOR 2, Darth Revan is a literal God, yet even far more powerful incarnations of Revan aren't packing the level of feats that Nihilus has).

slayne
So what's your reasoning, then? Why Vader, specifically?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Mostly gut-feeling, especially in relation to combat. Dude literally can't even control his own power. He killed himself in the 2nd half of his fight against Meetra by constantly trying to drain her/them. laughing out loud

Then there's Traya's comparison between Nihilus and Revan, (in the sense that Revan was the heart of the force, the absolute pinnacle of her students, way beyond the paygrade of Meetra, etc).

As we see with TFU and TFU 2, Vader is also capable of absolutely ridiculous/absurd feats a ways before his prime, and unlike Nihilus, he has full control/mastery of his power. And also isn't too shabby a swordsman, either. Also happens to be an absolute tank.

If you want to argue Nihilus just loldrains Vader, that's fine. I just find the former to be rather pathetic, honestly.

UCanShootMyNova
That's not an example of Nihilus not being able to control his power... That's an example of him being an retard.

AncientPower
Spirit!Traya being far above most Dark Council members probably puts her a lot higher in her prime than most people care to believe.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by AncientPower
Spirit!Traya being far above most Dark Council members probably puts her a lot higher in her prime than most people care to believe.

Spirit!Traya is above Vitiate and Sel-Makor, by the logic of that quote. Hard to take seriously.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
That's not an example of Nihilus not being able to control his power... That's an example of him being an retard.

No, that's him literally not being able to control his hunger. Dude tries to drain Meetra in the opening cutscene, knows it fails, and does it repeatedly in the 2nd half of the fight anyways.

slayne
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Mostly gut-feeling, especially in relation to combat. Dude literally can't even control his own power. He killed himself in the 2nd half of his fight against Meetra by constantly trying to drain her/them. laughing out loud
That wasn't Drain. It was a completely different Force power known as Dark Healing - hence, there isn't any indication that he was getting weaker, but there was plenty of indication that he was getting (somewhat) stronger, as evidenced by how he self-heals every time he does it.

For reference: http://i.imgur.com/gnmKlnm.png (first three)


She makes no direct comparison between the two other than that Revan was the best of her students, which is inherently flawed, especially coming from one such as her.

In any case, though, she definitely portrays Nihilus as far, far out of anyone's league bar the Ancient Sith; even going so far as to imply that Surik's basically the only one in the galaxy capable of beating him. Surik says as much when talking to him aboard the Ravager, anyway.

The same is true for Nihilus, and the caliber of what he does a ways before his prime outclasses whatever Vader could ever hope to do - even at his prime - by a mile.

Same can be said for Nihilus, as well. His contention with Surik and co. aboard the Ravager while mere inches away from death gives us a pretty good indication of where he stands as a combatant.

He has a few other ways to oneshot, as well.

Dunno why, tbh.

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Spirit!Traya is above Vitiate and Sel-Makor, by the logic of that quote. Hard to take seriously.

Not to say that she was disrespectfully bent over by the will of newbie Baras - and actually feared punishment coming from him.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by slayne
That wasn't Drain. It was a completely different Force power known as Dark Healing - hence, there isn't any indication that he was getting weaker, but there was plenty of indication that he was getting (somewhat) stronger, as evidenced by how he self-heals every time he does it.

For reference: http://i.imgur.com/gnmKlnm.png (first three)

Fair enough, but that doesn't really change Traya's statement that Nihilus has no control over his power. Dude's a mindless slave, whose servants can eventually reach his level of power.

Originally posted by slayne
She makes no direct comparison between the two other than that Revan was the best of her students, which is inherently flawed, especially coming from one such as her.

In any case, though, she definitely portrays Nihilus as far, far out of anyone's league bar the Ancient Sith; even going so far as to imply that Surik's basically the only one in the galaxy capable of beating him. Surik says as much when talking to him aboard the Ravager, anyway.

I mean sure, but she literally claims Revan to be the personification of power, like staring into the heart of the force, (not to be taken literally, obviously, but the point is there). There's numerous other examples throughout the game of Revan's deification, (then there's the Revan Novel, kek).

Yep, Traya holds Nihilus as Ancient Sith level at best, and given how SF Malak compares to the Ancient Sith, things aren't going so well for the Lord of Hunger on that front. sad

Originally posted by slayne
The same is true for Nihilus, and the caliber of what he does a ways before his prime outclasses whatever Vader could ever hope to do - even at his prime - by a mile.

...



The point is that based on the nature of KOTOR 2 and how Nihilus is implied to stack up with other powerhouses, his feats can't really be the only way we measure his strength.

Originally posted by slayne
Same can be said for Nihilus, as well. His contention with Surik and co. aboard the Ravager while mere inches away from death gives us a pretty good indication of where he stands as a combatant.

Lol. Competing with Surik and co. in a contest where we have absolutely no indication to what extent he used sabers or force abilities, (and, knowing Nihilus, he presumably used more of the latter,) isn't something outside the realm of RODV Vader.

Originally posted by slayne
He has a few other ways to oneshot, as well.

No, he doesn't. Dude literally has 2 force abilities.

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
No, that's him literally not being able to control his hunger. Dude tries to drain Meetra in the opening cutscene, knows it fails, and does it repeatedly in the 2nd half of the fight anyways.

That doesn't preclude retardation. smile

Selenial

Sinious
Honestly, Nihilus' power in battles should literally always change depending on his starvation. To say, just Nihilus vs X character has always seemed flawed to me. Nihilus right after Katar and Nihi who couldnt manage to find decent food for a while should be performing quite differently in combat. However, I think there is a limit to the power he can hold at a time, which imo shoudln't be higher than SWTOR Vitiate's power, or maybe even Novel Vitty.

NewGuy01
The issue here is that outside of the game, that distinction doesn't actually mean anything. These powers are targeted at a traditional "HP and MP" system, whereas in the lore, life energy and the force are the same thing. That's why Bane's force reserves were replenished by the victims of his Death Field.



From a story standpoint, the idea of Nihilus even being as powerful as Vitiate is pretty ridiculous. The triamuvate as a collective were portrayed as an insignificant threat compared to the true sith empire, who in turn were completely overshadowed by their emperor. Nihilus is even recognized in SWTOR, but not in such a light that would imply he was ever the kind of threat to the galaxy that Vitiate was.

Sinious
Well, I meant strictly in power. No matter how strong though, Nihilus is massively limited by his semi-agency, inability to maintain power over time, and lack of high tier knowledge/mastery. I am aware that you can shit on Nihilus and KOTOR really easily via SWTOR, but I don't think Nihilus becoming novel Vitty level in power for a short while after eating planets necessarily means that he is Novel Vititae's near equal, just like it doesn't mean that he is as dangerous to the galaxy as Vitiate is.

Selenial
Originally posted by NewGuy01
From a story standpoint, the idea of Nihilus even being as powerful as Vitiate is pretty ridiculous. The triamuvate as a collective were portrayed as an insignificant threat compared to the true sith empire, who in turn were completely overshadowed by their emperor. Nihilus is even recognized in SWTOR, but not in such a light that would imply he was ever the kind of threat to the galaxy that Vitiate was.

That doesn't stand true at all though, seeing as Nihilus was the exception to the rule when you consider his hype as a threat matched that of the Sith Empire. One could (and should) argue that the reason he wasn't as much of a threat (if that's even correct) was because he had an antithesis, someone essentially destined to destroy him. Traya herself states he's already dead, it's merely a question of how many he kills before he falls.

The Emperor wouldn't have such a weak spot, so would be a greater threat even with the same level of power.

PS: He's recognised in SWTOR as a 'being of pure dark side power', who 'devoured worlds' and anyone in his presence. Given Vitiate's greatest threat was devouring worlds, I'd love to see how on earth you came to that conclusion.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Selenial
PS: He's recognised in SWTOR as a 'being of pure dark side power', who 'devoured worlds' and anyone in his presence. Given Vitiate's greatest threat was devouring worlds, I'd love to see how on earth you came to that conclusion.

Interdasking. Link?

DarthAnt66

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up

slayne
@Sel: thumb up

@Skillz:

'His power' is basically Traya's way of describing his hunger, since the former grows alongside the latter. Same goes for Visas, IIRC.

Not a 'mindless' slave by any means, but he is a slave nonetheless to his hunger. Though I don't see how that could in any way be a detriment to his combative performance when facing literally anyone other than Surik, lol.

She describes Nihilus in much the same way, and I daresay speaks more highly of his power than she does Revan's (growing so powerful he only sees planets/stars, being capable of ending the galaxy given time, etc.) Also, the 'heart of the Force' comparison doesn't really work because, as Sel said, the two are portrayed in very different lights: one, Nihilus is seen as the death of the Force; while Revan, the other, is seen as the heart.

And we're still ignoring the fact that this is all her opinion on the hierarchy of characters light-years out of her league in terms of power, so I don't know why you're using this to justify Nihilus being below Vader.

Again, never once is there any implication in KotOR II of Nihilus being below Revan, other then Kreia saying that Revan was the best of her students - an inherently flawed comparison in and of itself.

Yes we do. It's heavily implied by Surik and confirmed by other sources that Nihilus' Force abilities were exhausted by the time he fought Surik (due to the failed Drain and him holding the Ravager together.) Hell, if you look at the actual fight itself, the only Force powers he actually used in the fight with Surik were Dark Heal and Force Push - one being used repeatedly to keep himself alive in the second half of the fight (when Visas was ****ing with his mind) and the other only being used once, in the middle of the fight.

For the entirety of the first half and most of the second half, he was purely relying on his lightsaber to defend himself.

You'd have a point here if he was at full strength when he was doing it. The guy was literally being 'consumed' by his own hunger, was holding together his ship and being mind****ed by Visas, yet all the while managed to give the trio an excellent fight in a (mostly) lightsaber contest. If this is what he was doing while in a state similar to the one Plagueis was in when fighting the Maladians, he's logically going to be able to perform a lot better at full strength.

Anyway, point is, he isn't nearly as weak a duelist as most make him out to be on these boards.

Which he can easily oneshot Vader with yeah. Though, as we saw in his fight with Sion, if he's going for the oneshot then it's going to display his entire arsenal of Force powers, the main three being Drain, TK and Lightning, of course.

I highly doubt Vader'd survive such an attack.

Azronger

AncientPower
I actually agree with Sel. laughing out loud

But no, SWTOR doesn't undermine Nihilus whatsoever. It is in fact stated that the Sith Empire has been searching for his techniques with significant effort. Voidhound circumventing this is also likewise stated to have essentially saved the Jedi Order. In the dark side alternative to this, the Sith you aid in the retrieval of Nihilus' holocron goes from a lackey Lord to a Darth on the Dark Council with barely any time at all.

Furthermore, the descriptions given to his cartel market gear are all flush with hype regarding his power too.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by AncientPower
I actually agree with Sel. laughing out loud

But no, SWTOR doesn't undermine Nihilus whatsoever. It is in fact stated that the Sith Empire has been searching for his techniques with significant effort. Voidhound circumventing this is also likewise stated to have essentially saved the Jedi Order. In the dark side alternative to this, the Sith you aid in the retrieval of Nihilus' holocron goes from a lackey Lord to a Darth on the Dark Council with barely any time at all.

Furthermore, the descriptions given to his cartel market gear are all flush with hype regarding his power too.

It actually took the SE time to get Force Drain. Didn't they already have it before? Or are you talking about some other power?

AncientPower
The techniques of Malachor V/Nihilus aren't the same as traditional drain techniques.

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