Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I hope you guys enjoy the blog, and are inclined to raise Valkorion because of it.

http://chroniclesofpower.freeforums.net/thread/3/chronicles-power-1-valkorion

Sheev one-shots

It's refreshing to see a new-ComicVine blog. I can't wait to give it a full read.

If anyone has any edits they'd be interested in making, that'd be cool.

https://literaryfictions.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/nosferatu-gif-rising-from-coffin.gif

i haff been summoned

I shall "live Tweet" my readthru.

Appreciate it.

OK. As I said in chat, you need to clarify why the quote from Luke's perspective about Sidious isn't binding while also holding character opinions about Abeloth as gospel. As of now, it just reads like a double standard.
The Killik panels about Abeloth don't exactly constitute reliable evidence about Abeloth: that's a major plot point in Apocalypse.
That Abeloth uses the Force with greater strength than Luke ever did doesn't necessarily put her above Luke or Sheev given that Luke actively tries not to abuse his Force powers.

But Temp, Luke has unleashed his full power before even if he generally refrains from doing so, and when Luke was wielding the light side with Leia amping him he disrupted Sidious's force storm and caused Sidious to an hero.

1. I noted that Luke not knowing about The Ones plays into his perspective being questionable.

2. I agree with that.

3. Except that Luke had already gone into Oneness twice by the time he'd made that statement, along with other situations in which he'd gone "all-out."

Srsly WTF do Tenebrae's black eyes have to do with anything? Waste of space, I'd cut it out.
That Vitiate is monstrously evil is not germane to the conversation. I'd trim it too. What's important here is the monstrous scope of his power.
Tenebrae breaking Dramath's mind is indeed impressive given his age, but we don't know the circumstances. Dramath pursued him according to the Encyclopedia, so it's possible (perhaps even likely?) that it was a trap. The fact that he didn't pull this stunt on any other Sith Lord of reasonable renown (like Ragnos, Sadow, etc.) suggests that this isn't something 10 y/o Tenebrae could expect to pull off on the fly against anyone decent.

It's a blog about Valkorion, so **** you.

I never stated or implied he could pull such a technique on Ragnos or Sadow.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. I noted that Luke not knowing about The Ones plays into his perspective being questionable.

Luke did know about the Mortis Anchorites. Yoda regaled him of the tale while on Dagobah, remember? He mentions it in Apocalypse.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
2. I agree with that.



Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
3. Except that Luke had already gone into Oneness twice by the time he'd made that statement, along with other situations in which he'd gone "all-out."

Which times were those?



Excellent point.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I never stated or implied he could pull such a technique on Ragnos or Sadow.

No, I'm not claiming either of you did, I'm just pointing out that I don't think it adds any credence to the idea he's better than Palps.

Skillz, I knew you were a trash debater but this is sad :>

The blog doesn't say anything about being better than Palps.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Luke did know about the Mortis Anchorites. Yoda regaled him of the tale while on Dagobah, remember? He mentions it in Apocalypse.

This may be true; however, Yoda nor Luke possessed any substantial about the power of the Ones. Luke's memory of the story was hazy as well, so I doubt he would remember it in a passing comment.

Luke also thought Yoda had made up the story...

I forgot how complex the Holocron creation is.
I don't think the comparison is quite as decisive as you portray it to be: the Codex entry on Dramath's Holocron says young Tenebrae "discovered a way" to pervert a Holocron's lattice to trap souls. It doesn't actually say he literally created one from scratch as Bane attempted to do. He might well have altered a pre-existing one. Still impressive, of course, but Bane wasn't attempting such an experiment.

Is this composite?

Good shit, skillz

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Luke did know about the Mortis Anchorites. Yoda regaled him of the tale while on Dagobah, remember? He mentions it in Apocalypse.
Apocalypse also confirms that up until the point where Abeloth's history was revealed, Luke never brought up that tale because he thought it was a parable rather than an actual literal happening.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
This may be true; however, Yoda nor Luke possessed any substantial about the power of the Ones. Luke's memory of the story was hazy as well, so I doubt he would remember it in a passing comment.

It wasn't a passing comment. Per the text, it was an account of the mission Skywalker, Kenobi, and Tano took. We don't know how much Luke did or did not know of their power - but the fact is that he did know about them.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Apocalypse also confirms that up until the point where Abeloth's history was revealed, Luke never brought up that tale because he thought it was a parable rather than an actual literal happening.

That's because the event itself does sound more like a parable than an action report, not because the information Yoda provided lacked any degree of specificity.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Luke did know about the Mortis Anchorites. Yoda regaled him of the tale while on Dagobah, remember? He mentions it in Apocalypse.

Which times were those?


1. I mean sure, he knew they existed, but it's not like they were still alive so that he could feel the scope of their power relative to Sheev's. Nor does Yoda know how powerful the Ones are, and Luke even thought that Yoda was just making up a story, (i.e. he didn't think they actually existed, and wouldn't be comparing them to DE Sidious). Hell, "The dark side's most powerful expression" doesn't even seem to be referring to the context of history, anyways.

2. Against UnuThul, against Caedus, oneness against Abeloth, against DE Palpatine, and IIRC he goes oneness during the NJO as well.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Is this composite?

No, it's not.

Misread.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

I forgot how complex the Holocron creation is.
I don't think the comparison is quite as decisive as you portray it to be: the Codex entry on Dramath's Holocron says young Tenebrae "discovered a way" to pervert a Holocron's lattice to trap souls. It doesn't actually say he literally created one from scratch as Bane attempted to do. He might well have altered a pre-existing one. Still impressive, of course, but Bane wasn't attempting such an experiment.


1. Indeed.

2. Even if we assume that Tenebrae didn't outright create a holocron, he still literally perverted the holocron so that it could capture powerful force users and erase or imprison "immortal spirits" from existence. At age 10.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It wasn't a passing comment. Per the text, it was an account of the mission Skywalker, Kenobi, and Tano took. We don't know how much Luke did or did not know of their power - but the fact is that he did know about them.

He might have known of them, but he thought the story was conjured up.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. I mean sure, he knew they existed, but it's not like they were still alive so that he could feel the scope of their power relative to Sheev's. Nor does Yoda know how powerful the Ones are, and Luke even thought that Yoda was just making up a story.

If the quote said that Sheev was the most powerful Force user Luke had ever felt or witnessed, then I'd agree with you - since he personally did not confront the Mortis Anchorites.

But the quote says the Emperor had become the most powerful expression of the Dark Side. And Luke was indeed made aware of the Ones and their eldritch natures. That knowledge may or may not provide ample basis on which to compare the Anchorites with Sheev, but I'm simply saying that for precision's sake, it's not true to declare that the quote is invalid because of Luke's lack of knowledge.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Hell, "The dark side's most powerful expression" doesn't even seem to be referring to the context of history, anyways

That's fair. You don't see me using the quote.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
2. Against UnuThul, against Caedus, oneness against Abeloth, against DE Palpatine, and IIRC he goes oneness during the NJO as well.

Some of these I'll need to revisit to make sure it was actual "Oneness," but back to Live Tweeting.

-> Sheds his limitations
-> Gets killed by one-shottable fodder 2 chapters in
-> GOAT of Starwars

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's fair. You don't see me using the quote.


Which is what I was ultimately getting at.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
No, it's not.
And yet I see a TCW video.

Regarding the contents of the Emperor's Vault, the Codex says that Valkorion used it to store artifacts he feared were too powerful and dangerous to use - not that he stored all of those sorts of artifacts there. I'm not sure it provides an ample basis by which to compare them to the Phobis Devices, unless you have more evidence.
On that point, the SWTOR Encyclopedia says that's part of the reason the Dark Temple itself was created by Vitiate - to store dangerous artifacts
The codex on Ragnos says "legend" tells that he beat his pet nightly and warped it with the Force.
Your position on the multiple accounts of the Nathema ritual seems shaky at best. Setting aside the fact that the only evidence that Vitiate mindhaxxed his Sith guests is from Nyriss herself, she might very well indeed have been disingenuous - exaggerating the scope of Vitiate's power to emphasize the need to neutralize him. Nor does Vitiate need to be capable of mindhaxxing 8k Sith Lords against their well in order for Nyriss to betray him.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Regarding the contents of the Emperor's Vault, the Codex says that Valkorion used it to store artifacts he feared were too powerful and dangerous to use - not that he stored all of those sorts of artifacts there. I'm not sure it provides an ample basis by which to compare them to the Phobis Devices, unless you have more evidence.
Well tbf, given that the holocron was ultimately a tool instrumental in his destruction, and given that his power is stated to dwarf that of the Dread Masters who wielded the Phobis devices, there is ample evidence in the lore and narrative to suggest that Vitiate would consider the holocron more dangerous than the phobis devices and would be more concerned with safeguarding it.

Assuming you're taking the quotes about Jerec's omniscience from the Valley of the Jedi at face value, then I'd argue it's conclusive proof that the Valley of the Jedi/Thought Bomb is "infinitely" more impressive than what happened on Nathema, since it only "vastly" increased Vitiate's abilities as a dark side practitioner and afforded him neither immortality or omniscience.
Your assessment of Vitiate slaying the Dark Council members in a flash is disingenuous. This may very well have been a trap - not a demonstration of casual, unprepped power. We don't know how the confrontation would have gone had Vitiate not known about it ahead of time.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well tbf, given that the holocron was ultimately a tool instrumental in his destruction, and given that his power is stated to dwarf that of the Dread Masters who wielded the Phobis devices, there is ample evidence in the lore and narrative to suggest that Vitiate would consider the holocron more dangerous than the phobis devices and would be more concerned with safeguarding it.

Stated by whom?

Originally posted by The_Tempest

Assuming you're taking the quotes about Jerec's omniscience from the Valley of the Jedi at face value, then I'd argue it's conclusive proof that the Valley of the Jedi/Thought Bomb is "infinitely" more impressive than what happened on Nathema, since it only "vastly" increased Vitiate's abilities as a dark side practitioner and afforded him neither immortality or omniscience.

Bane>>>Valkorian confirmed

The Revan fight analysis section begins on shaky ground.
You claim that "Revan knew he wouldn't ever be able to defeat the Emperor all by himself," but the excerpt you cite as proof from the novel only states that Revan thinks he "probably" wasn't a match for the Emperor alone.
(That same excerpt says Revan thinks a pair that are compositely sub-Nyriss and T-friggin'-3 would give him "a real chance of victory."
That the guard is able to resist Revan's Force push so well might indicate that they're able to draw on more than just a "fraction" of Vitiate's power, given how well Revan does against the real deal a few minutes later. The novel itself never actually says "fraction," for what it's worth.
The Force wave Vitiate hurls at Revan was a product of him gathering his energies and only throwing them at the last possible instant. That Revan essentially is only knocked off his feet and not damaged to any particular extent says a lot - similar to the point you make about Revan just knocking Vitiate off his feet and not actually damaging him.
So far, this is not a lopsided battle between opponents who are actively charging their attacks.

Alright, I read through the entire thing. I'll briefly offer my thoughts.

My main issue here is that this blog offered nothing new in terms of feats, accolades, scaling etc. Everyone knew these things already. So I ask, what was the point? This didn't give me any new insight, widen my perceptions or alter my stances at all - I still think he's sub-Plagueis and gets one-shot by RotS Sidious solely on the basis of feats. It's just the same shit I've heard over and over again from those arguing for Valkorion's supremacy. Honestly, this thing was needlessly hyped to end: DarthSkywalker0 even bragged that it would "convince everybody" of Valkorion being the GOAT, "fundamentally change Star Wars debating forever", and even "kill off Sheev wank".

Just to state it, I have nothing personal against either of the creators and consider both Skillz and DarthSkywalker0 my good friends, but honestly, given the way this thing was hyped and the rather arrogant comments made by the latter, this whole movement has just felt like a pretentious pile of dogshit. I was planning to write a counter, but after reading through this thing, it honestly isn't worth my goddamn time. I'll just counter with my own blog.

Originally posted by Azronger
Alright, I read through the entire thing. I'll briefly offer my thoughts.

My main issue here is that this blog offered nothing new in terms of feats, accolades, scaling etc. Everyone knew these things already. So I ask, what was the point? This didn't give me any new insight, widen my perceptions or alter my stances at all - I still think he's sub-Plagueis and gets one-shot by RotS Sidious solely on the basis of feats. It's just the same shit I've heard over and over again from those arguing for Valkorion's supremacy. Honestly, this thing was needlessly hyped to end: DarthSkywalker0 even bragged that it would "convince everybody" of Valkorion being the GOAT, "fundamebtally change Star Wars debating forever", and even "kill off Sheev wank".

Az half of those are misquoted... and the rest were stated in jest.

Azronger, I would gladly discuss with you which feats of Sidious's or Plagueis' outstrip those of Valkorion.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


Some of these I'll need to revisit to make sure it was actual "Oneness," but back to Live Tweeting.
Not all of them were but..
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ


3. Except that Luke had already gone into Oneness twice by the time he'd made that statement, along with other situations in which he'd gone "all-out."

And now the visions...
We don't know the exact ratio of Vitiate-defeated/Vitiate-victorious visions, but this part is telling: Scourge muses "He had to choose, but there was no way to know which was the most likely outcome," suggesting that the split was damn close at least.
Scourge musing that his betrayal would not have altered the inevitable outcome is most likely self-rationalization. For if the outcome were "inevitable" and Vitiate would have won "regardless," then Scourge would never have seen potential futures wherein they beat him.
(Then there's the fact that Vitiate's own behavior indicates that they might well have beaten him.)

Is there proof that when Vitiate imbues characters with his power that it requires some sort of incessant concentration on his part or that his own inherent power is diminished as a result?
Lots and lots of character opinions up in hurr


Got lazy there at the end. But good show, boys, I read through 3/4 of it.

Well, I enjoyed reading it but most of these are arguments people have pressed before and failed to make any headway with.

GG Az.
You are a monster.

Thank you, Urs.

So which part of this exactly was the "groundbreaking revelation" you mentioned the other day, Skillz?

The part where he conceded Sheev > Valk, I guess.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Tha part where he conceded Sheev > Valk, I guess.
Yoda>Valk too

Az won here.

Skillz told me he conceded and then claimed there's no way Valkorion is ever going to win a feat war against Sidious, but now he appears to have reservations.

Not quite.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Not quite.

PTSD from Temp

The comparison between Vitiate's holocron and the Phobis device is danke ngl. Still only a quarter of the way through.

You should all know how bipolar I am by now. All hail the Immortal Emperor.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
The part where he conceded Sheev > Valk, I guess.


Silly Crazzy

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Silly Crazzy
Stating something is within the realm of possibility sorta reads like a half-assed concession that such a possibility isn't a likely hood tbh.

We are making an addendum to the blog which will counter Azronger's essay. Hopefully, we can finish it this week.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Stating something is within the realm of possibility sorta reads like a half-assed concession that such a possibility isn't a likely hood tbh.

But Skillz denounced his statements shortly after their inception.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
So which part of this exactly was the "groundbreaking revelation" you mentioned the other day, Skillz?

Just finished it, well done. Definitely raised my already rather high opinion of Vitiate.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Originally posted by NewGuy01
So which part of this exactly was the "groundbreaking revelation" you mentioned the other day, Skillz?

That was in reference to something else that I decided not to add after a couple of lengthy discussions with Gideon.

I didn't read it all, but from what I have read... eesh.

kek

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
kek

What's so funny?

Awesome!

Gonna give this a read.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
What's so funny?

Even sub-PTforthewin tiers have their value.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You amuse me.

OK... I guess.

In the part where you talk about Vitiate havingnpower dispersed among his children and then his main body, you should add that he also had a small amount distributed among the Hand and Guard, on top of that a lot of it stored in the Valkorion body. In fact, given Zakuul was his focus, he probably had most of his power residing in his Valkorion body rather than his Voice.

Otherwise excellent read. Even raised my placement a bit (I already had him higher than anyone I know sans Legend)

Read it all, it was an excellent read, it even inspired me to get back to a project like this I started 2 years ago.

It convinced me to raise him above Luke as a Force user, but I' d still wouldn't per se place him above Sheev. Him being > Plagueis is no longer a question for any non-biased eye.

Appreciate it.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
In the part where you talk about Vitiate havingnpower dispersed among his children and then his main body, you should add that he also had a small amount distributed among the Hand and Guard, on top of that a lot of it stored in the Valkorion body. In fact, given Zakuul was his focus, he probably had most of his power residing in his Valkorion body rather than his Voice.
Most of his power had to be in the Voice, as this is why it was sealed in the Temple on Yavin. Vaylin couldn't be controlled anymore after the HoT struck Vitiate down, because this is where his power was. Not that hard to understand.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Appreciate it.

Ur welcome.

Keep up the good work.

Great blog, excellent points, a better argument than I ever made for Valk in any case.

My only gripe is your description of the Nyriss duel, but that isn't all that relevant to the topic on hand.

Nice blog, a few issues though.
Nice information on the holocron though, and comparing it to bane.

Good effort.

a good respect thread

Very nice.

You searched your feelings at last and found them to be true.

You now qualify for the position of the Emperor's Wrath.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Very nice.

You searched your feelings at last and found them to be true.

You now qualify for the position of the Emperor's Wrath. u never responded to Azrongers ultimate Palpatine essay

Is that a concession?

Originally posted by ILS
u never responded to Azrongers ultimate Palpatine essay

Is that a concession?
By Legend's standards, it most certainly is