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(sabers only)

Who wins

Team 1.

Composite Ahsoka or Canon only? Same for Ben.

I'm assuming legends physicals are retained in canon. Team 2.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Team 1.

Arcann/Ulic are among the top of their era, Ahsoka and Ben get to scale multiple levels over the best in history. I think this one is obvious.

^lol

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Arcann/Ulic are among the top of their era, Ahsoka and Ben get to scale multiple levels over the best in history. I think this one is obvious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIhbtOJz3vM&t=2m52s

Ben is superior to his ROTS self. Ahsoka has contended with Vader, Ben's equal, on a ds nexus and hence can be assumed to be close with him.

Being generous, as TCW Kenobi has fought evenly with TCW Maul, it's fair to assume ROTS Kenobi and SOD Maul are on the same level as duelists.

TCW Maul's inferior version has decisively handled Qui-Gon Jinn, who has multiple staements placing him as one of the most skilled jedi in history.

Even with this incredibly nerfed scaing I've scaling the two so that I don't have to get into another repetitive argument about Rebels Maul or Maul's performances vs Kenobi we still get the following line of scaling:

Ben>ROTS Kenobi~SOD Maul>TPM Maul>One of the best swordsmen in history

and:

Ben >~ Ahsoka> ROTS Kenobi ~ SOD Maul >TPM Maul >One of the best duelists in history

Even setting aside the aforementioned points of contention, that's still multiple levels of scaling above the best duelists in history. That's not something either Arcann or Ulic have anything as impressive as.

And what does that have to do with Arcann and Ulic?

lmao @ kbro

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And what does that have to do with Arcann and Ulic?
Arcann and Ulic's multiple levels of in-era scaling isn't more impressive than multiple levels of scaling above force user who have sh!t that can be applied across eras.

That's about as relevant a comparison you can draw between two characters in separate eras regarding a saber only confrontation.

dat logik tho

I'm not sure Kbro understands how scaling works / why it is used.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
dat logik tho

I'm not sure Kbro understands how scaling works / why it is used.
Feel free to educate me sir.

Ulic is MVP. Team 1 wins

lmao, team 1.

^Roflmao. The wanking in here is starting to reek.

Team 2.

Originally posted by BlueTiger1144
^Roflmao. The wanking in here is starting to reek.

Microbe.

Originally posted by BlueTiger1144
^Roflmao. The wanking in here is starting to reek.

It's canon vs legend characters,
Ashoka/Ben can't scale to superior feats lmao.

Team 1, whether physicals are equalized (relatively) or not

Anyone want to make a case for team 1?

Frankly, your "scaling" post was the best case for team one that anyone could write.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Frankly, your "scaling" post was the best case for team one that anyone could write.
So, you don't have an argument here?

What's the case for team 2?

Originally posted by nfactor1995
What's the case for team 2?
Check the first page

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Ben is superior to his ROTS self. Ahsoka has contended with Vader, Ben's equal, on a ds nexus and hence can be assumed to be close with him.

Being generous, as TCW Kenobi has fought evenly with TCW Maul, it's fair to assume ROTS Kenobi and SOD Maul are on the same level as duelists.

TCW Maul's inferior version has decisively handled Qui-Gon Jinn, who has multiple staements placing him as one of the most skilled jedi in history.

Even with this incredibly nerfed scaing I've scaling the two so that I don't have to get into another repetitive argument about Rebels Maul or Maul's performances vs Kenobi we still get the following line of scaling:

Ben>ROTS Kenobi~SOD Maul>TPM Maul>One of the best swordsmen in history

and:

Ben >~ Ahsoka> ROTS Kenobi ~ SOD Maul >TPM Maul >One of the best duelists in history

Even setting aside the aforementioned points of contention, that's still multiple levels of scaling above the best duelists in history. That's not something either Arcann or Ulic have anything as impressive as.

This is the argument? I assume we're using only canon (with physicals roughly equalized), given these are Rebels characters. The only argument here I see is somewhat arbitrary scaling. But what do these individual characters have in terms of canon feats that makes this line of scaling impressive enough to compete with or defeat Arcann and Uliq?

Originally posted by nfactor1995
This is the argument? I assume we're using only canon (with physicals roughly equalized), given these are Rebels characters. The only argument here I see is somewhat arbitrary scaling.

And what other argument do you suppose I should make? The point of the arbitrary scaling is that it marks the opponents Ahsoka and Ben have faced as more impressive than the ones Arcann and Ulic have faced. Peforming well agains tbetter opponents makes you more impressive. It's as solid as a case you can make for a cross-era dueling comparison. It's a much better than choosing team 1 because they scale of folks who managed to go through armies of featless fodder.
Originally posted by nfactor1995
But what do these individual characters have in terms of canon feats that makes this line of scaling impressive enough to compete with or defeat Arcann and Uliq?
Matching/contending with Vade ris more impressive than contening with matching Vaylin. Being better than Maul is better than being better than Malgus. The scaling I cited makes the opponents team 2 has facedmore impressive than the ones team 1 has faced. Being above the best swordsmen in history is more impressive than being among the best in your era.

Ulic faced Exar Kun in an absolute stalemate which would've lasted hours. That's hours of absolutely immaculate swordsmanship, zero mistakes or slips. That's an insane feat, against one of the greatest swordsman in all of history, revered for all-time. This is all before Ulic's powers grow massively, and his skills get even sharper.

Please tell me how anybody short of Vader, is holding a candle to that.

Arcann? He scales off of Revan, who whilst massively pre-prime and hindered by the Star Forge, was capable of defeating SF! Malak through his Force powers. A SF! Malak who must scale so far above the likes of Karness Muur that he's right up with prime Vader and Krayt. Given that, Arcann kicks their shit in.

Either member of team one beats either member of team two, though I have Vader above either member of team one, so this fight won't be a stomp but the winning team is pretty obvious to me.

I can grasp Vader > Ulic, but given the new Malak scaling? Not seeing Vader > Arcann anymore.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Either member of team one beats either member of team two, though I have Vader above either member of team one, so this fight won't be a stomp but the winning team is pretty obvious to me.
Ben stalemated Vader and Ahsoka contended with him on a nexus .

If Vader's superior to either, then team 1 has very little room for error here. At the very best Team 1 could be inferior to Ben and superior to Ahsoka, though there's a far larger range of possible placements for the team that place them below either as duelists.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Ulic faced Exar Kun in an absolute stalemate which would've lasted hours. That's hours of absolutely immaculate swordsmanship, zero mistakes or slips. That's an insane feat, against one of the greatest swordsman in all of history, revered for all-time. This is all before Ulic's powers grow massively, and his skills get even sharper.

Please tell me how anybody short of Vader, is holding a candle to that.

Arcann? He scales off of Revan, who whilst massively pre-prime and hindered by the Star Forge, was capable of defeating SF! Malak through his Force powers. A SF! Malak who must scale so far above the likes of Karness Muur that he's right up with prime Vader and Krayt. Given that, Arcann kicks their shit in.

Arcann doesn't take shit from Revan.

Originally posted by AncientPower
]Ulic faced Exar Kun in an absolute stalemate which would've lasted hours. That's hours of absolutely immaculate swordsmanship, zero mistakes or slips. That's an insane feat, against one of the greatest swordsman in all of history, revered for all-time. This is all before Ulic's powers grow massively, and his skills get even sharper.

Ahsoka stalemated Maul on a ds nexus, someone who's been stated to have grown as a swordsman when he was already of one of the best duelists of all time, and who pre-prime has beat one of the best duelists of all time while fending off one of the best jedi of the era.

Ben stalemated Vader and is superior to his ROTS self who has, as off TCW, outperformed Maul who, as mentioned above, as of TPM was in a tier above the best swordsmen in history and beat another one of the best swordsmen in historu while dealing with his apprentince who happened to be one of the best jedi in his day.

Simply stalemating one of the best swordsmen of all time is not enough to place you above someone who can beat superior versions of the best duelists of all time.
Originally posted by AncientPower Arcann? He scales off of Revan, who whilst massively pre-prime and hindered by the Star Forge, was capable of defeating SF! Malak through his Force powers. A SF! Malak who must scale so far above the likes of Karness Muur that he's right up with prime Vader and Krayt. Given that, Arcann kicks their shit in.
Arcann does not scale off of Revan .

And you haven't provided anything for the two you've just mentioned in terms of dueling feats.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I can grasp Vader > Ulic, but given the new Malak scaling? Not seeing Vader > Arcann anymore.
Yeah, I'm a lot more skeptical of the Malak scaling, and the notion that Arcann actually gets scaling off of Revan.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Ben stalemated Vader and Ahsoka contended with him on a nexus .

If Vader's superior to either, then team 1 has very little room for error here. At the very best Team 1 could be inferior to Ben and superior to Ahsoka, though there's a far larger range of possible placements for the team that place them below either as duelists.
Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of the Vader Ben fight firstly, and secondly I don't give two shits about the nexus. If it's not actually noted to be a factor, I doubt it has serious narrative weight in shifting a fight, and it was a fight that I disagree on being as close as you seem to think it was. She contended yes. She was not Vader's equal though. Much like Dooku, these characters can be put between Ahsoka and Vader.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of the Vader Ben fight firstly

Then how are you coming to a conclusion here regarding this battle? All the evidence we have so far indicates the two to be equals, with it being specifically noted that Ben only ceded the fight to let the heroes escape.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
, and secondly I don't give two shits about the nexus. If it's not actually noted to be a factor, I doubt it has serious narrative weight in shifting a fight

It doesn't need to be explicitly stated to be a factor. It's indicated to let darksiders do sh!t they usally can't. There's no reason for us to ignore circumstances that exist due to a second guessing of undeclared authorial intent. Not to mention that all the other fights, Ahsoka vs Maul, Inqusitors vs Jedi, had the darksiders performing better than they should regarding all the other evidence we have present.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
, and it was a fight that I disagree on being as close as you seem to think it was. She contended yes. She was not Vader's equal though. I don't think she was Vader's equal at all. And there's no need to nitpick here, we both agree the gap between the two is a small one. The point still stands. Team 1 has a small amount of leeway here if they're inferior to someone who both members of team 2 are close to.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Much like Dooku, these characters can be put between Ahsoka and Vader.
Sure, they can be. But why should we? What have either done as duelists that place them above Ahsoka or near Vader?

Also, LMAO at Team 1 Obviously winning here

Force feats for canon Vader to put him on Arcann and Uliq's level?

Originally posted by nfactor1995
Force feats for canon Vader to put him on Arcann and Uliq's level? This is sabers only

Arcann looses it for team one.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
This is sabers only

Oh interesting, didn't notice that in the OP

Yeah shit didn't notice that lol.

Then I'm gonna give MVP to Ulic, in a very close analysis.

Either solo

Absolutely not.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Either solo still DtF tond? im turning 18 soon