Rune King Thor vs Monarch

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Damborgson
Fight is on Earth Prime. Who wins?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/40/140977-5402-monarch.jpg

Vs

http://i.imgur.com/DgmOL2A.jpg

quanchi112
Thor with a gesture.

Badabing
Monarch, decisively.

RealityWarper
Monarch wins IMO.

vansonbee
Rune King Thor

Board Walker
Monarch is abstract as Rune King Thor is street leveler.

That is how grand the difference in power is between the two of them

Damborgson
Explain? I'm interested how you'd justify that exaggeration

Galan007
I think this could be a good fight.

RKT's implied power puts him around Odin-level(perhaps slightly higher if you give him the benefit of the doubt), and Monarch has some absolutely absurd battle feats -- the best of which are killing/absorbing every version of Captain Atom across the multiverse, and stalemating GA Prime for an extended period of time.)

Imo, RKT's best option in a forum setting would likely be to try and critically rupture Monarch's armor right at the onset. Granted, the subsequent detonation would undoubtedly kill him, but it still counts as a forum victory on KMC... However, rupturing Monarch's armor to the point of complete failure is easier said then done, as it is insanely durable.

Case in point: a casual blast of HV from a tremendously weakened SBP went through Superman himself like a hot knife through butter:
https://i.imgur.com/m6BU4nP.jpg


Flip side, Monarch's armor outright TANKED a blast of HV from an enraged GA Prime, without enduring so much as a scratch:
https://i.imgur.com/u29Qivb.jpg


For a point of reference: casual HV from GA Prime was capable of slagging the phucking Source Wall:
https://i.imgur.com/nersq7v.jpg



That said, for RKT to even think about rupturing Monarch's armor to the point of *critical failure*(key words, as minor damage to the armor doesn't mean a damn thing) means he either has to generate an energy attack >>>> an enraged GA Prime's HV, OR produce physical strength no less than equal to an enraged Prime's final "I'M SUPERMAN!!!!" haymaker... Not saying it's impossible; just that it certainly wouldn't be easy considering the armor's durability(most people just don't realize how strong it actually was.) smile

Damborgson
Originally posted by Galan007
I think this could be a good fight.

RKT's implied power puts him around Odin-level(perhaps slightly higher if you give him the benefit of the doubt), and Monarch has some absolutely absurd battle feats -- the best of which are killing/absorbing every version of Captain Atom across the multiverse, and stalemating GA Prime for an extended period of time.)


RKT'S actual power puts him well above Odin honestly.

http://i.imgur.com/YBfnnjQ.png

He had all those who sit in shadow and the fates opposing his action to end Ragnarok, absolutely incapable of stopping him. He had the entirety of the Odin Force as well as mastery of the runes on top of it. If Odin had been able to stop them, he would have. But he was only able to see the solution, if I'm remembering correctly.

Not to mention he has some neat tricks like pulling out your soul.
http://i.imgur.com/OKk9oyL.png

And Loki at the time where he had his head pulled off had stolen the power of Asgard as well as siphoned some from Mangog, so at the very least Thor can casually decapitate trans level characters with a simple yank.

Board Walker
RKT was a high end skyfather, but he was still a skyfather in scope and depth.

Monarch was a universal power, the difference is immense.

Just as RKT as a skyfather was able to casually dominate an arguably Trans level Loki, so too could Monarch effortlessly dominate RKT who is several tiers beneath him, unlike Loki who was arguably one tier below RKT.

Galan007
Originally posted by Damborgson
RKT'S actual power puts him well above Odin honestly. Heh, I figured that myth might pop-up again... No, RKT was definitely not "well above" Odin. Tbh, I'm being extremely generous in putting him "slightly" above Odin.


RKT explicitly stated that he could NOT defeat the Fates outright -- he lacked the power to "change what has been written"(which is the Fates' conceptual purpose):
http://i.imgur.com/QiuIiQo.jpg

He beat The Fates, along with TWSAIS, by exploiting a cosmic 'flaw' in one of the strands on the Loom of Fate:
http://i.imgur.com/SipIP02.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dsqqC8C.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gkj9gyL.jpg
That's it. He certainly did not straight-up overpower either party.


It was also explicitly stated that Thor's humanity/mortality is what gave him the advantage over the aforementioned beings, and allowed him to beat them -- NOT his raw power:
http://i.imgur.com/KVEgebH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vx9e5Ek.jpg

I want to emphasize this portion of the above text:
http://i.imgur.com/TVPrvXM.jpg

*THAT is why he was able to do what Odin could not.


As for RKT's knowledge/wisdom: it was directly compared to that of Odin:
http://i.imgur.com/b59DTCM.jpg
"You DO have the wisdom of Odin..."



And on that note, it was ODIN himself who masterminded/planned all of the events that led to Thor gaining the Rune-power and overcoming the Fates/TWSAIS. Odin KNEW his son's mortal traits would ultimately allow him to overcome the cycle of Ragnarok -- that's WHY he sent Thor to Earth as a mortal in the first place:
http://i.imgur.com/Skm1TvK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uX6jHv1.jpg

________________________________


As for TWSAIS: they are some of the most vague characters I have ever seen, with ridiculously overinflated/hyperbolic power... Case in point:
http://i.imgur.com/NgDlM9s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u4VCg9P.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bapLsML.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Kf7kJzg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/a9Bsnj1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9ET1VZl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qX86VSH.jpg
*Not only were they unable to defeat Loki, but he basically made them look like a gaggle of doltish buffoons.


Mind you, TWSAIS had hyperbole'd the shit out of their own powers in the issue prior -- they basically acted like they WERE the phucking Beyonders, lol:
http://i.imgur.com/U9dkm0N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BldHWjr.jpg

Suffice to say: their word is far from irrefutable. wink

________________________________


Anywho, I personally think RKT's best display of raw power is when he casually beat an amped Loki. Granted, the exact depth/scale of Loki's amp is ambiguous at best, but we still know that he was amped to *some* noteworthy degree... But even that showing doesn't skyrocket RKT to these Skyfather+++ levels that some seem to think, imo -- I could see a decently-written Odin doing the exact same thing, for example... /shrug

celeyhyga17
https://imgur.com/hGqt7VN.jpg

Damborgson
Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, I figured that myth might pop-up again here... No, RKT was definitely not "well above" Odin. Tbh, I'm being extremely generous putting him "slightly" above Odin.


RKT explicitly stated that he could NOT defeat the Fates outright -- he lacked the power to "change what has been written"(which is the Fates' conceptual purpose):
http://i.imgur.com/QiuIiQo.jpg

He beat The Fates, along with TWSAIS, by exploiting a cosmic 'flaw' in one of the strands on the Loom of Fate:
http://i.imgur.com/SipIP02.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dsqqC8C.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gkj9gyL.jpg
That's it. He certainly did not straight-up overpower either party.


It was also explicitly stated that Thor's humanity/mortality is what gave him the advantage over the aforementioned beings, and allowed him to beat them -- NOT his raw power:
http://i.imgur.com/KVEgebH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vx9e5Ek.jpg

I want to emphasize this portion of the above text:
http://i.imgur.com/TVPrvXM.jpg

*THAT is why he was able to do what Odin could not.


As for RKT's knowledge/wisdom: it was directly compared to that of Odin:
http://i.imgur.com/b59DTCM.jpg
"You DO have the wisdom of Odin..."



And on that note, it was ODIN himself who masterminded/planned all of the events that led to Thor gaining the Rune-power and overcoming the Fates/TWSAIS. Odin KNEW his son's mortal traits would ultimately allow him to overcome the cycle of Ragnarok -- that's WHY he sent Thor to Earth as a mortal in the first place:
http://i.imgur.com/Skm1TvK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uX6jHv1.jpg

________________________________


As for TWSAIS: they are some of the most vague characters I have ever seen, with ridiculously overinflated/hyperbolic power... Case in point:
http://i.imgur.com/NgDlM9s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u4VCg9P.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bapLsML.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Kf7kJzg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/a9Bsnj1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9ET1VZl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qX86VSH.jpg
*Not only were they unable to defeat Loki, but he basically made them look like a gaggle of doltish buffoons.


Mind you, TWSAIS had hyperbole'd the shit out of their powers in the issue prior -- they basically acted like they were the phucking Beyonders, lol:
http://i.imgur.com/U9dkm0N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BldHWjr.jpg

Suffice to say: their word is far from irrefutable. wink

Well I never thought of it as a myth as much as it just being a logical conclusion, but alright.

You can see TWSAIS getting outshone by him as he raises his hammer. They actually interfere for a moment and put him in their presence again, to which he simply refuses.
http://i.imgur.com/dsqqC8C.jpg

And this action was going to end their existence, they clearly had access to him, both parties did, but didn't do anything, and it's only logical to believe that because...they couldn't. Unless you can think of another reason why they wouldn't have stopped him? True, he wasn't able to alter the will of fates, but then...he did. Regardless of how he did it, the fates have already prestablished what was going to happen, and because of that, they didn't fear him when he arrived. It was all according to plan, until it wasn't and if that isn't defiance I don't know what else would be. -shrug-

Well that's a good point, I think it's fair to say then that that's a plausible explanation for why Odin didn't do it. But because he didn't do it, it's hard to gauge how he would have done in that situation. And since the only other interaction I can think of with TWSAIS and Odin is the one you posted, where they put the fear of death into him, as opposed to Thor simply brushing them off, that still plays well into RKT being above him, wouldn't you agree?

There's also this:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111200398/4874937-3897303259-bYKdS.jpg

The whole point of the arc was Thor walking the path his father hadn't. Going above and beyond what he did, and while it's true, he said that he had the wisdom of Odin, that doesn't mean by itself that it's a cap, just an affirmation, since it's clear he was beyond Odin even in that category from the very scans you posted.

Damborgson
Originally posted by Galan007

Anywho, I personally think RKT's best display of raw power is when he casually beat an amped Loki. Granted, the exact depth/scale of Loki's amp is ambiguous at best, but we still know that he was amped to *some* noteworthy degree... But even that showing doesn't skyrocket RKT to these Skyfather+++ levels that some seem to think, imo -- I could see a decently-written Odin doing the exact same thing, for example... /shrug

Of course it's very impressive. But

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35816/772505-thor_vol__2_85_2.jpg

Still takes the cake, imo smile

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
https://imgur.com/hGqt7VN.jpg

Pfft, well that was easier.

quanchi112
Thor was far greater than Odin IMO. Scans prove it.

Galan007
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
https://imgur.com/hGqt7VN.jpg ...And this bio contradicts anything I said... HOW, exactly? Regardless, Odin ALSO possessed the Rune-power(that's what led RKT to hang himself in the first place), so... confused

Again: I'm fine with RKT being above Odin... But "well above" is simply a massive overstatement if we're actually using on panel feats/showings, and not just fanmade power-scaling. There are undeniable stipulations behind him defeating the Fates/TWSAIS. You guys can't just ignore them.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Well I never thought of it as a myth as much as it just being a logical conclusion, but alright.

You can see TWSAIS getting outshone by him as he raises his hammer. They actually interfere for a moment and put him in their presence again, to which he simply refuses.
http://i.imgur.com/dsqqC8C.jpg

And this action was going to end their existence, they clearly had access to him, both parties did, but didn't do anything, and it's only logical to believe that because...they couldn't. Unless you can think of another reason why they wouldn't have stopped him? True, he wasn't able to alter the will of fates, but then...he did. Regardless of how he did it, the fates have already prestablished what was going to happen, and because of that, they didn't fear him when he arrived. It was all according to plan, until it wasn't and if that isn't defiance I don't know what else would be. -shrug-

Well that's a good point, I think it's fair to say then that that's a plausible explanation for why Odin didn't do it. But because he didn't do it, it's hard to gauge how he would have done in that situation. And since the only other interaction I can think of with TWSAIS and Odin is the one you posted, where they put the fear of death into him, as opposed to Thor simply brushing them off, that still plays well into RKT being above him, wouldn't you agree?

There's also this:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111200398/4874937-3897303259-bYKdS.jpg

The whole point of the arc was Thor walking the path his father hadn't. Going above and beyond what he did, and while it's true, he said that he had the wisdom of Odin, that doesn't mean by itself that it's a cap, just an affirmation, since it's clear he was beyond Odin even in that category from the very scans you posted. ...So you're opting to ignore the fact that RKT's raw power is NOT what allowed him to defeat TWSAIS, but rather, his humanity/mortality? That was, after all, credited as the sole reason why RKT was able to do what Odin could not, and overcome the cycle of Ragnarok. blink

abhilegend
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
https://imgur.com/hGqt7VN.jpg Originally posted by Damborgson
Of course it's very impressive. But

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35816/772505-thor_vol__2_85_2.jpg

Still takes the cake, imo smile



Pfft, well that was easier.
Odin also had the power of runes.

https://s26.postimg.org/pzx4p119x/RCO003.jpg

("this is where your father hung himself for nine days and nights...and he gathered the knowledge of the runes!"wink.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Galan007
...And this bio contradicts anything I said... HOW, exactly? confused


Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, I figured that myth might pop-up again... No, RKT was definitely not "well above" Odin. Tbh, I'm being extremely generous in putting him "slightly" above Odin.


I wouldn't say he's "well above". And I don't feel he's "slightly above" either even with u being generous. Somewhere in between maybe?

Anyways as for the scene, he may have found "a way", but in the end they seemed absolutely powerless to prevent him from doing something they did not want to happen.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by abhilegend
Odin also had the power of runes.

https://s26.postimg.org/pzx4p119x/RCO003.jpg

("this is where your father hung himself for nine days and nights...and he gathered the knowledge of the runes!"wink.
I think it's implied that he went "beyond". He made a greater sacrifice than his papi. He went to a level that even the TWSAIS were compelled to make a bargain wit him..

Galan007
I would honestly be fine with RKT being 'well above' Odin if anything on panel actually put him on that level. But again: when you actually consider the *full* context of the story itself, and remove any preconceived notions you may have as a fan regarding his 'implied' power, there really isn't any definitive evidence that places him above Odin by a significant amount.

RKT appeared in exactly 2 issues... Here are his feats:
*Killing a weakened Mangog- remember, Loki had siphoned away most of his power by the time RKT killed him.
*Owning an amped Loki- while Loki *was* amped, we really have NO clue what the extent of his amp was. As I mentioned earlier, though: I still consider this to be RKT's best display of raw power, because there are no stips surrounding it. /shrug
*Overcoming the cycle of Ragnarok/TWSAIS/Fates- but again: there were some glaring stipulations behind that feat... Namely Thor's humanity/mortality being credited as the primary reason he was able to accomplish it. We cannot ignore this.


All personal bias aside, I honestly do not see why he should be ranked any higher than 'slightly' above Odin... And it's hard for me to even justify that ranking, tbh.

srug

Damborgson
Originally posted by Galan007


...So you're opting to ignore the fact that RKT's raw power is NOT what allowed him to defeat TWSAIS, but rather, his humanity/mortality? That was, after all, credited as the sole reason why RKT was able to do what Odin could not, and overcome the cycle of Ragnarok. blink

Well no I didnt ignore that, I'm pretty sure I adressed it at least in my post. That is something you seem to have just brushed aside though. 🤔

But I also dont agree with your interpretation. Because it wasn't his morality swinging the hammer. It was his experience as a human that let him get to that situation at all, is what im getting out of it. As opposed to Odin...

Now I think the point you want to hanmer is, you're not comfortable admitting Thor would be "well" above Odin, and I can see why you'd say that given our varying interpretations, but it hardly seems outlandish to me.

You said earlier you could see Odin pulling Loki's head off. Having RKT overshadow him you wouldn't though?3

celeyhyga17
Loki seemed pretty powerful. Standard Loki alone can be quite haxxed and he was well beyond that. It was stated that he had raised Surtur from beyond. He was also well beyond Mangog as well as virtually all Asgardian baddies being subservient to him.

Anyways RKT has only a few appearances, but I would give him the majority over Odin.

abhilegend
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I think it's implied that he went "beyond". He made a greater sacrifice than his papi. He went to a level that even the TWSAIS were compelled to make a bargain wit him..
No, he wasn't. He had to sacrifice double to gain what Odin did because he had already taken that path.

There is nothing to denote that Thor was more powerful than Odin. But if you want to argue using a bio, SBP destroyed an entire universe before he fought Monarch as per Multiversity.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b3/8b/8e/b38b8e769eff1bf9a836a8923f9333ad.jpg

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he wasn't. He had to sacrifice double to gain what Odin did because he had already taken that path.

There is nothing to denote that Thor was more powerful than Odin. But if you want to argue using a bio, SBP destroyed an entire universe before he fought Monarch as per Multiversity.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b3/8b/8e/b38b8e769eff1bf9a836a8923f9333ad.jpg

Not gonna repeat myself.

abhilegend
Good for you.

Philosophía
Monarch.

Galan007
Originally posted by Damborgson
Well no I didnt ignore that, I'm pretty sure I adressed it at least in my post. That is something you seem to have just brushed aside though. 🤔

But I also dont agree with your interpretation. Because it wasn't his morality swinging the hammer. It was his experience as a human that let him get to that situation at all, is what im getting out of it. As opposed to Odin...

Now I think the point you want to hanmer is, you're not comfortable admitting Thor would be "well" above Odin, and I can see why you'd say that given our varying interpretations, but it hardly seems outlandish to me.

You said earlier you could see Odin pulling Loki's head off. Having RKT overshadow him you wouldn't though?3 Again: I personally view RKT as *slightly* superior to Odin. That is to say: he would beat Odin in a fight, but would be hard-pressed to do so.

However, the notion that RKT is 'well above' Odin implies that he would defeat Odin easily. Since nothing on panel supports this, I obviously cannot agree. thumb up

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Galan007
I would honestly be fine with RKT being 'well above' Odin if anything on panel actually put him on that level. But again: when you actually consider the *full* context of the story itself, and remove any preconceived notions you may have as a fan regarding his 'implied' power, there really isn't any definitive evidence that places him above Odin by a significant amount.

RKT appeared in exactly 2 issues... Here are his feats:
*Killing a weakened Mangog- remember, Loki had siphoned away most of his power by the time RKT killed him.
*Owning an amped Loki- while Loki *was* amped, we really have NO clue what the extent of his amp was. As I mentioned earlier, though: I still consider this to be RKT's best display of raw power, because there are no stips surrounding it. /shrug
*Overcoming the cycle of Ragnarok/TWSAIS/Fates- but again: there were some glaring stipulations behind that feat... Namely Thor's humanity/mortality being credited as the primary reason he was able to accomplish it. We cannot ignore this.


All personal bias aside, I honestly do not see why he should be ranked any higher than 'slightly' above Odin... And it's hard for me to even justify that ranking, tbh.

srug

TRUE !

MONARCH STOMPS !

(His writer confirmed that his power his limitless and that he can one-shot the multiverse)

Damborgson
Originally posted by Galan007
Again: I personally view RKT as *slightly* superior to Odin. That is to say: he would beat Odin in a fight, but would be hard-pressed to do so.

However, the notion that RKT is 'well above' Odin implies that he would defeat Odin easily. Since nothing on panel supports this, I obviously cannot agree. thumb up

Okay, that's a fair point.

That's not true, but carry on thumb up

DarkSaint85
I think the thread where the typo was Those Who Shit in Shadow was the best thumb up

iceman24567
Monarch wins

Prof. T.C McAbe
Double ko in my opinion. RKT can breach Monarchs armor but I doubt he can survive the Universe buster in his face.

8swords
Originally posted by Galan007
I think this could be a good fight.

RKT's implied power puts him around Odin-level(perhaps slightly higher if you give him the benefit of the doubt), and Monarch has some absolutely absurd battle feats -- the best of which are killing/absorbing every version of Captain Atom across the multiverse, and stalemating GA Prime for an extended period of time.)

Imo, RKT's best option in a forum setting would likely be to try and critically rupture Monarch's armor right at the onset. Granted, the subsequent detonation would undoubtedly kill him, but it still counts as a forum victory on KMC... However, rupturing Monarch's armor to the point of complete failure is easier said then done, as it is insanely durable.

Case in point: a casual blast of HV from a tremendously weakened SBP went through Superman himself like a hot knife through butter:
https://i.imgur.com/m6BU4nP.jpg


Flip side, Monarch's armor outright TANKED a blast of HV from an enraged GA Prime, without enduring so much as a scratch:
https://i.imgur.com/u29Qivb.jpg


For a point of reference: casual HV from GA Prime was capable of slagging the phucking Source Wall:
https://i.imgur.com/nersq7v.jpg



That said, for RKT to even think about rupturing Monarch's armor to the point of *critical failure*(key words, as minor damage to the armor doesn't mean a damn thing) means he either has to generate an energy attack >>>> an enraged GA Prime's HV, OR produce physical strength no less than equal to an enraged Prime's final "I'M SUPERMAN!!!!" haymaker... Not saying it's impossible; just that it certainly wouldn't be easy considering the armor's durability(most people just don't realize how strong it actually was.) smile

genuinely curious.. the first scan showed a more precise HV smaller like a peircing shot.. while the others are big and wide like more of a concussive blast.. is there any difference if any those HV?

oh and yeah going with monarch..

Galan007
^ Given how weak SBP was at the time, thinner beams are likely all he could muster. No reason at all to suspect that said beams had more penetration power than an all-out blast from an enraged GA Prime.

....Monarch's armor is just a LOT more durable than most folks realize.

celeyhyga17
Since RKT is basically Thor to the umpteenth power, I'm guessing he has Thor feats...?

Hmmm....


Standard Thor contained a life bomb(1/5 universe yadda yadda).
Also... I consider RKT > Odin. Hate to use abc, but Odin using the Odinforce has manipulated amped Surtur's fire(powerful enough to burn the 9 realms and possibly multiverse) and tore off the tenth realm(mini? universe) from yggdrasil.

I'm confident he can do something to survive Monarch's armor breaking.

Stoic
Didn't Thor die before becoming the Rune King? If so, why would he be held to a universal standard? Can you re-kill the dead? What exactly are we talking about, when we bring up Thor at this stage? His very nature had changed. Monarch may not even be able to hurt him. I maintain my original opinion on that. Unless he really didn't die, despite the book saying that he did die.

Can someone straighten this conundrum out please?

I'm almost 100% sure that RK Thor would rupture the physical nature of Monarch's containment, and stand there as the blast went around him. Why? Because the physical laws no longer applied to him, while having control over the physical realm due to the runes power. But by all means, we can believe that RK Thor was in peril of being killed, while already dead if that's the common belief. I don't buy it, but that's my opinion.

Monarch explodes alone. Dig it?

abhilegend
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Since RKT is basically Thor to the umpteenth power, I'm guessing he has Thor feats...?

Hmmm....


Standard Thor contained a life bomb(1/5 universe yadda yadda).
Also... I consider RKT > Odin. Hate to use abc, but Odin using the Odinforce has manipulated amped Surtur's fire(powerful enough to burn the 9 realms and possibly multiverse) and tore off the tenth realm(mini? universe) from yggdrasil.

I'm confident he can do something to survive Monarch's armor breaking.
By that token Monarch is Captain Atom to nth level. Cap has created and destroyed an entire universe in quantum zone and has drained the plasma universe of Parallax along with three others.

mmm

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
By that token Monarch is Captain Atom to nth level. Cap has created and destroyed an entire universe in quantum zone and has drained the plasma universe of Parallax along with three others.

mmm RK Thor wins. One gesture. He takes his head.

Stoic
I was under the impression that the Runes had near infinite power? This isn't Thor's power, which is what no one seems to get.

Khazra Reborn
RKT, via some kind of esoteric magic shit.

abhilegend
He wasn't that powerful.

Stoic
The runes were powerful. He was dead. Mangog didn't even register.

krisblaze
Monarch might be too tall an order even for RKT.

Stoic
Originally posted by krisblaze
Monarch might be too tall an order even for RKT.

How do you re-kill the dead? Is Monarch powerful enough to destroy rune magic? If he can wipe the source of RK Thor's power out, then I agree, Monarch stomps... but. I mean when did Monarch show power over the metaphysical? Wouldn't it be like killing Casper the friendly ghost by driving through him with a car? Like I said, he treated Mangog like he wasn't even there.

Galan007
Originally posted by Stoic
The runes were powerful. He was dead. Mangog didn't even register. *The Runes put Thor around Odin's level -- slightly greater at best. ALL context considered, nothing on panel warrants him being ranked any higher.

*Thor wasn't dead -- Odin's projection saved him from Hela's realm.

*Mangog "didn't register", because he was explicitly weakened -- Loki had been siphoning his power away.


...This isn't the only thread you've tried to unjustly hyper-wank RKT in, so I must ask: did you even read the issues for yourself? Seems like you've only seen cropped panels from the story here and there, and are basing this inflated opinion of yours solely on those. Certainly doesn't appear that you have *personally* read any of the material, otherwise you would already be aware of the facts/context I mentioned above... Either that, or you're just ignoring it entirely for whatever reason. mmm

Stoic
Originally posted by Galan007
*The Runes put Thor around Odin's level -- slightly greater at best. ALL context considered, nothing on panel warrants him being ranked any higher.

*Thor wasn't dead -- Odin's projection saved him from Hela's realm.

*Mangog "didn't register", because he was explicitly weakened -- Loki had been siphoning his power away.


...This isn't the only thread you've tried to unjustly hyper-wank RKT in, so I must ask: did you even read the issues for yourself? Seems like you've only seen cropped panels from the story here and there, and are basing this inflated opinion of yours solely on those. Certainly doesn't appear that you have *personally* read any of the material, otherwise you would already be aware of the facts/context I mentioned above... Either that, or you're just ignoring it entirely for whatever reason. mmm

If Thor wasn't dead, why would he be going to Hela's realm? All of the rest is really irrelevant until you prove that Thor did not die. The means by which he attained the power of the runes is of no consequence here. Instead of going to Hel, he was bound by the runes which became his new nature. He was dust in the wind. He was never resurrected which is why the power that he displayed was not his own, but the power of the runes.

Thor's power came from the runes and yes his very nature changed. He was no longer bound to the physical laws of the universe. This will not change. Monarch is fighting the power of the runes, not Thor.

There really isn't anything inflated about it. I'm skipping ahead to where Thor dies, and is reanimated. Odin never crossed the boundaries that Thor did. You're arguing power levels like you've narrowed it down to a fine science without warrant. You really have no idea how powerful the runes were. Odin had access to a portion of the runes power, Thor was reanimated by them.

I have the entire arc on dvd which will be a drag to dig up. I have it on hd as well, but I lost my data link cable on a trip. It's the time allowance to research this stuff that gets me.

h1a8
Originally posted by Stoic
If Thor wasn't dead, why would he be going to Hela's realm? All of the rest is really irrelevant until you prove that Thor did not die. The means by which he attained the power of the runes is of no consequence here. Instead of going to Hel, he was bound by the runes which became his new nature. He was dust in the wind. He was never resurrected which is why the power that he displayed was not his own, but the power of the runes.

Thor's power came from the runes and yes his very nature changed. He was no longer bound to the physical laws of the universe. This will not change. Monarch is fighting the power of the runes, not Thor.

There really isn't anything inflated about it. I'm skipping ahead to where Thor dies, and is reanimated. Odin never crossed the boundaries that Thor did. You're arguing power levels like you've narrowed it down to a fine science without warrant. You really have no idea how powerful the runes were. Odin had access to a portion of the runes power, Thor was reanimated by them.

I have the entire arc on dvd which will be a drag to dig up. I have it on hd as well, but I lost my data link cable on a trip. It's the time allowance to research this stuff that gets me. A character's power level, with an amp, is based off feats, not any speculation of how powerful they should be. Without feats, even the runes power would be unknown.

Thor had to do spells just to destroy some enemies. Surfer has destroyed a planet becoming furious. Hulk disintegrated thousands of powerful beings and a planet without touching it.

Stoic
Mangog and Loki. He treated both like they weren't even there. Loki was super amped.

Stoic
Originally posted by h1a8
A character's power level, with an amp, is based off feats, not any speculation of how powerful they should be. Without feats, even the runes power would be unknown.

Thor had to do spells just to destroy some enemies. Surfer has destroyed a planet becoming furious. Hulk disintegrated thousands of powerful beings and a planet without touching it.

That's all good and fine, but how do you re-kill the dead? I'm not even talking about power at this point.

Stoic
Originally posted by h1a8
A character's power level, with an amp, is based off feats, not any speculation of how powerful they should be. Without feats, even the runes power would be unknown.

Thor had to do spells just to destroy some enemies. Surfer has destroyed a planet becoming furious. Hulk disintegrated thousands of powerful beings and a planet without touching it.

If that power fails to touch or harm what happens then? Umar went unscathed by the force of the destruction in the Dark Dimension. Should we just discount how easily he dealt with an amplified Loki? Is Loki being considered weak?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Stoic
The runes were powerful. He was dead. Mangog didn't even register.
What powers did the runes show?

krisblaze
Originally posted by Stoic
How do you re-kill the dead? Is Monarch powerful enough to destroy rune magic? If he can wipe the source of RK Thor's power out, then I agree, Monarch stomps... but. I mean when did Monarch show power over the metaphysical? Wouldn't it be like killing Casper the friendly ghost by driving through him with a car? Like I said, he treated Mangog like he wasn't even there.

Thor dying would probably count as a win for Monarch.

If Monarch's suit is ruptured though, I see Thor just opening a portal and letting that energy go elsewhere. Like with Surtur's recent explosion.

Stoic
Originally posted by abhilegend
What powers did the runes show?

He plucked Loki's head off like a grape. Loki gave me the impression that he was in Odin's weight class. Again, he treated him like a child would treat a GI Joe action figure, a very strong child.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Thor dying would probably count as a win for Monarch.

If Monarch's suit is ruptured though, I see Thor just opening a portal and letting that energy go elsewhere. Like with Surtur's recent explosion.

No that's not what I'm saying. Thor died when he decided to go further than Odin did in order to gain more power than the runes bestowed upon Odin. The book said that he died. He wasn't resurrected, or brought back to life but he was instead re-animated by the runes, which was bound to him. Monarch would not be fighting a natural Thor, he would be fighting the runes. If Monarch had power over the metaphysical, I would say that he'd have a chance of actually scoring a hit that could do some damage.

Thor shows that he has vast supernatural power when he plucks Loki's head off of his shoulders, and continues to speak to him. Loki under normal circumstances would have died from having his head pulled off. I can't see how RK Thor could be placed on par with Odin in terms of power?

Galan007
Originally posted by Stoic
If Thor wasn't dead, why would he be going to Hela's realm? Again: Odin's projection brought Thor BACK from Hela's realm -- BACK to the land of the living. IOW, he was NOT dead.

...What isn't computing here? srsly

Originally posted by Stoic
Thor's power came from the runes and yes his very nature changed. He was no longer bound to the physical laws of the universe. This will not change. Monarch is fighting the power of the runes, not Thor. So in other words: "f*ck on panel context/facts"..? laughing out loud

Originally posted by Stoic
There really isn't anything inflated about it. Well, you're touting RKT as this omnipotent/unbeatable hyper-God, in lieu of the on panel context/facts that have been mentioned to the contrary. So yes, you're inflating the living shit out of him... And unjustly so. smile

Stoic
Originally posted by Galan007
Again: Odin's projection brought Thor BACK from Hela's realm -- BACK to the land of the living. IOW, he was NOT dead.

...What isn't computing here? srsly

So in other words: "f*ck on panel context/facts"..? laughing out loud

Well, you're touting RKT as this omnipotent/unbeatable hyper-God, in lieu of the on panel context/facts that have been mentioned to the contrary. So yes, you're inflating the living shit out of him... And unjustly so. smile

What was Thor attempting to do when he sought to acquire the power of the runes?

Did he cross more boundaries than Odin did in order to receive the power of the runes?

Odin gave an eye, Thor gave up his life, which one was the greater sacrifice?

Loki was in or very near Odin's weight class. For the benefit of doubt, let's place him firmly in Odin's weight class shall we? If Thor were on Odin's level, how could he pull off an equals head like it was a grape, I mean there was no effort whatsoever. You don't have to be God Doom to be outside of Monarch's influence.

Is there one scene that shows that RK Thor was ever in jeopardy of being killed in a natural way?

Galan007
Cool, so now I know for sure that your ENTIRE opinion regarding RKT's inflated 'status' is based SOLELY on you own personal bias/opinion.

I would normally remind you that debates simply do not work that way, but I'm certain it wouldn't change anything... So have fun with that. laughing out loud

abhilegend
Originally posted by Stoic
He plucked Loki's head off like a grape. Loki gave me the impression that he was in Odin's weight class. Again, he treated him like a child would treat a GI Joe action figure, a very strong child.



No that's not what I'm saying. Thor died when he decided to go further than Odin did in order to gain more power than the runes bestowed upon Odin. The book said that he died. He wasn't resurrected, or brought back to life but he was instead re-animated by the runes, which was bound to him. Monarch would not be fighting a natural Thor, he would be fighting the runes. If Monarch had power over the metaphysical, I would say that he'd have a chance of actually scoring a hit that could do some damage.

Thor shows that he has vast supernatural power when he plucks Loki's head off of his shoulders, and continues to speak to him. Loki under normal circumstances would have died from having his head pulled off. I can't see how RK Thor could be placed on par with Odin in terms of power?
What made you think Loki was Odin level?

Loki has survived as a head under his own power when Balder cut his head off under Simonson.

Damborgson
Originally posted by Galan007
*The Runes put Thor around Odin's level -- slightly greater at best. ALL context considered, nothing on panel warrants him being ranked any higher.




If you repeat it long enough it'll be true I guess.

leonidas
curious--how much greater do you think rkt was then odin?

Damborgson
Galan did convince me that the words "well above" are a bit too much, because the evidence isn't sold enough to give anything concrete enough to prove it. But RKT = Odin, with a generous person making him ever so slightly above Odin, doesn't make sense to me either.

So If Odin were a 9/10, Thor would be a 10/10 I guess.

Galan007
Originally posted by Damborgson
If you repeat it long enough it'll be true I guess. Again, my opinion is that RKT *would* beat Odin in a battle, but would be hard-pressed to do so... Ergo, "slightly above". Absolutely nothing on panel warrants him being placed any higher than that, so I'm not sure why you're acting like I am making stuff up here..? confused

If I tried to place RKT any higher, I'd be stepping out of the realm of 'on panel fact', and into the realm of 'unsubstantiated bias'... But if I'm off base here, please do explain why. Legit curious.

quanchi112
laughing out loud

Zack M
Monarch.

Damborgson
Originally posted by Galan007
RKT's implied power puts him around Odin-level(perhaps slightly higher if you give him the benefit of the doubt)
Originally posted by Galan007
No, RKT was definitely not "well above" Odin. Tbh, I'm being extremely generous in putting him "slightly" above Odin.

Originally posted by Galan007
All personal bias aside, I honestly do not see why he should be ranked any higher than 'slightly' above Odin... And it's hard for me to even justify that ranking, tbh.
srug
Originally posted by Galan007
Again: I personally view RKT as *slightly* superior to Odin. That is to say: he would beat Odin in a fight, but would be hard-pressed to do so.
Originally posted by Galan007
*The Runes put Thor around Odin's level -- slightly greater at best. ALL context considered, nothing on panel warrants him being ranked any higher.
Originally posted by Galan007
Again, my opinion is that RKT *would* beat Odin in a battle, but would be hard-pressed to do so... Ergo, "slightly above".

I think I've got a good idea of your opinion thumb up

It's just not as concrete as you're trying to make it sound. I already explained why I thought so, and you kind of brushed it aside -shrug- which is why I said if you keep repeating it, people may believe it. It's an actual psychological phenomenon after all. Persuasion through repetition from a credible source.

leonidas
Originally posted by Damborgson
Persuasion through repetition from a credible source.

not sure if talking about the same galan here. mmm

Damborgson
Originally posted by leonidas
not sure if talking about the same galan here. mmm

Sorry I meant 'credible'

https://i.imgur.com/MF0qT3I.gif

stick out tongue

leonidas
thumb up

Galan007
Originally posted by Damborgson
I think I've got a good idea of your opinion thumb up

It's just not as concrete as you're trying to make it sound. I already explained why I thought so, and you kind of brushed it aside -shrug- which is why I said if you keep repeating it, people may believe it. It's an actual psychological phenomenon after all. Persuasion through repetition from a credible source. Thing is: I wouldn't *have* to repeat myself multiple times if people weren't trying to argue the facts... But alas...

wink

Damborgson
This homo winking at me 😳😳

Galan007
thorboned



...haw-som

Stoic
Originally posted by Galan007
Again, my opinion is that RKT *would* beat Odin in a battle, but would be hard-pressed to do so... Ergo, "slightly above". Absolutely nothing on panel warrants him being placed any higher than that, so I'm not sure why you're acting like I am making stuff up here..? confused

If I tried to place RKT any higher, I'd be stepping out of the realm of 'on panel fact', and into the realm of 'unsubstantiated bias'... But if I'm off base here, please do explain why. Legit curious.

Okay, I re-read the entire arc. I took note that Odin ferried Thor out of Hel; I also took note that the runes had been bound to him prior to his death. Odin with the Odin force plucked out an eye, and used the runes to increase his personal power. Thor on the other hand plucked out two eyes, and died which was a far greater sacrifice.

The Ones that live above in shadow were stated to be the elders of the gods, and thus greater than Odin. Are we in agreement so far? Thor with the runes had become more powerful than them unless I read wrong? Or, maybe I interpreted it wrong? Either way I think that RK Thor was greater than they were, because if he wasn't they would have likely destroyed him instead of offering him a place among them.

So, if they were elder gods, and RK Thor was above them, this would mean that he was likely far more powerful than Odin.

Loki made mention in his confrontation with Thor, that he was Asgard, which gave me the very strong impression that he was on Odin's level of power. If so, Thor treated Loki like a light weight. The very idea that Thor went well beyond Odin to gain the knowledge of the runes placed him well beyond Odin in terms of power.

I took note that at first RK Thor was unable to change fate, but then he turned around and altered the fate of the Asgardians by altering the threads of fate. Was there anything that I missed?

If Loki was as powerful as Odin, and he was unable to harm even one hair of RK Thor's head, what would make anyone believe that he would take notice of Monarch who doesn't even use magical attacks?

Galan007
^ The notion that Loki was Odin-level is purely unsupported conjecture on your part. Nothing on panel puts him at that level.

...IOW, you are still over-inflating RKT's power tremendously here. ermm

quanchi112
There is nothing Monarch has shown which can defend him against the attacks Thor will implore. He beheads him. Nothing Monarch can do to stop it unless you'd like to debate. Step up.

Stoic
Originally posted by Galan007
^ The notion that Loki was Odin-level is purely unsupported conjecture on your part. Nothing on panel puts him at that level.

...IOW, you are still over-inflating RKT's power tremendously here. ermm

Rune King Thor was more powerful than the ones that sit above in shadow, and they were more powerful than Odin. In fact they actually fed on Odin. Rune King Thor was far more powerful than Odin. The very fact that he defeated Loki after Loki said that he was Asgard shows that he was powerful unless of course you didn't actually read that part?

Perhaps you'd like to convince people that Loki was at the same power level as he usually walks around at? Is this what you're saying? He siphoned all of the denizens of Asgard as the book tells, he even siphoned a portion of Mangog's power along with the denizens of Asgard. He could have well been more powerful than Odin at that point, and he was impotent against RK Thor.

I understand the tendency of not enjoying the idea of being wrong, but Loki was a lot more powerful than his regular self at that point. Odin and Asgard were always said to be one. Loki was said to be Asgard. Loki was a full blown Sky Father and no one was able to stop him. Just because you don't feel that what I am saying is true, does not mean that it isn't.

You'll have a tough time proving that Monarch could even harm RK Thor let alone stomp him. Monarch is coming into a magical battle without any magic to speak of, and he has a glaring weakness.

Mr Master
I've always maintained that RKT was FAR more powerful than Odin. I got that the first time I read the arc, I got the same conclusion the third time likewise. You have to know how powerful the Fates and specially TWSAIS were to see this clearly, aside from the Skyfatherish-Loki whoop ass.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Mr Master
I've always maintained that RKT was FAR more powerful than Odin. I got that the first time I read the arc, I got the same conclusion the third time likewise. You have to know how powerful the Fates and specially TWSAIS were to see this clearly, aside from the Skyfatherish-Loki whoop ass. RK Thor was far greater than Odin. I concur.

DarkSaint85
Daxamites at base are said to be Kryptonian level on stats.

Imagine giving one a GL ring.

Imagine bonding that GL Daxamite to the Ion entity.

Truly, that character will be Skyfather level!

Feats? Oh....erm.....yeah, that's how DC goes. Mental blocks, you know?

Ok, let's do Marvel.

Imagine a character who could give classic Savage a good fight.

Now give him an amp, courtesy of Cytorrak. Same Cytorrak declares said character as his fav avatar of all time, so we know he's not holding back.

Now give this guy, 1/5th of the Phoenix Force. 20% of unlimited power. Infinite power of creation, whatever.

This guy must be an abstract by now, right? I can't wait to see his feats!!!

Enter: Spiderman.

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