Monarch replaces Odin against The Fourth Host of Celestials

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



backup
Ok, this guys:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/71813/1774318-1415547_superman_prime_vs_monarch_part_2_super.jpg

vs.

This team:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111250526/4769962-9557633865-tumbl.jpg

Who wins?

Digi
Monarch gets stomped as thoroughly as the All-Father did.

quanchi112
Monarch gets stomped worse than Odin did.

abhilegend
Monarch Originally posted by Digi
Monarch gets stomped as thoroughly as the All-Father did.
Why? Monarch is quite a bit above Odin.

Insane Titan

Digi
Originally posted by abhilegend
Monarch
Why? Monarch is quite a bit above Odin.

iirc, in the Destroyer armor and with Uni-Mind, the Celestials basically no-sold him. I won't get into Monarch v. Odin specifically - I know the old guy has gotten a severe depowerment compared to his old days...but that's also part of the point. He was >>>> his more recent self in terms of feats and portrayals. Him getting wrecked against the 4th Host was, at the time, legitimately shocking.

So yeah, Celestials win imo.

Prof. T.C McAbe
Spite. Monarch loses to a single Celestial.

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
Monarch
Why? Monarch is quite a bit above Odin. Monarch beating the fourth host ?

laughing out loud

The dude got beat by Superman(boy) Prime. He reverted back when he used his strength to defeat him.

Damborgson
The super amped Odin Destroyer couldn't budge them. I can't imagine Monarch being that much more powerful.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Digi
iirc, in the Destroyer armor and with Uni-Mind, the Celestials basically no-sold him. I won't get into Monarch v. Odin specifically - I know the old guy has gotten a severe depowerment compared to his old days...but that's also part of the point. He was >>>> his more recent self in terms of feats and portrayals. Him getting wrecked against the 4th Host was, at the time, legitimately shocking.

So yeah, Celestials win imo.
I'm not sure he was anymore powerful than his current self. The narration stated that Odin, Zeus and Vishnu's combined attack could move a planet out of orbit and Odin Destroyer could withstand a supernova.

But the fourth host wasn't always unbeatable like that. In their next appearance a portion of Phoenix Force made them retreat.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Skyfathers vs Arishem

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111276539/5364809-2547730429-f2k4W.jpg

Jean Grey with a fraction of PF and emotions of a bunch of aliens vs Arishem. Their next appearance IIRC

https://s13.postimg.org/kttfb1moz/RCO027_1468939999.jpg https://s10.postimg.org/op78n01et/RCO028_1468939999.jpg https://s11.postimg.org/98hysdbe7/RCO029_1468939999.jpg

Conclusion : Skyfathers are a bunch of sissies.

Exitar was stated to be more powerful than entire fourth host and while powerful he was never shown as a legit universal power.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Damborgson
The super amped Odin Destroyer couldn't budge them. I can't imagine Monarch being that much more powerful.
Yes, the attacks that could destroy a planet.

Thor busted Exitar's armor open with belt of strength, Jean grey with power of Phoenix destroyed Arishem's hand and Exitar had to save power for thousands of years to kill a single Watcher.

They are not some kind of abstracts because they destroyed Odin.

quanchi112
4th Celestials win here. Hard.

"Id"
Celestials

abhilegend
Originally posted by "Id"
Celestials
Reason?

krisblaze
Monarch meets his end at the hands of Oneg the prober

leonidas
i think the celestials of thor 300 would wreck monarch as easily as they beat the destroyer. later incarnations became much more vulnerable. for years they were viewed as pretty much unbeatable. that changed greatly over time.

Damborgson
Yeah, they were used as feat magnets for other characters unfortunately. But if put in the same situation as Odin, it would go down very similarly in my opinion.

Stoic
Let's look at the statistics on the fight. If anyone cares to add anything that I miss, please by all means contribute.

The Celestials slagged the Destroyer like it was butter.

Odin was very slow.

Monarch's armor may be breached if he is hit, which would result in the destruction of those same Celestials.

There is a chance that if Monarch were to avoid being hit, due to superior speed (by far) in comparison to Odin in the giant slow Destroyer. He should be able to do massive damage to the Celestial 4th host of those days even.

These guys are fictional. It isn't difficult to write another character further up on the food chain. The Celestial 4th host were never super heavyweights. They were to Odin, but Monarch was practically written in Toonville in terms of offensive power. I think that Monarch would do damage here. If they rupture his containment won't they go bye bye?

Stoic
Does Monarch actually die, or does he just float out there waiting to be collected and placed back into containment? In the past, the Celestials really never went up against anything like Monarch. So we can say that they were more or less big fish in little ponds. Could they survive the kind of heat that Monarch can put out? He has quite the scope.

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
Reason? There are many reasons not just one. laughing out loud

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
i think the celestials of thor 300 would wreck monarch as easily as they beat the destroyer. later incarnations became much more vulnerable. for years they were viewed as pretty much unbeatable. that changed greatly over time.
Other than Thor 300 which Comic showed them as invincible? X Factor had a shadow of Phoenix Force scare them off, Fantastic Four 400 showed Celestial race and Watcher race stalemating for thousands of years and Exitar getting killed by Invisible Woman etc.

Celestials were one hit wonders.

leonidas
everything PRECEDING thor 300. there was even an article written about it somewhere at one point. since then they've been chumps in many cases though marvel seems to want to reinflate their prestige nowadays.

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
everything PRECEDING thor 300. there was even an article written about it somewhere at one point. since then they've been chumps in many cases though marvel seems to want to reinflate their prestige nowadays.
They only appeared in Eternals series before that. What are you talking about?

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
They only appeared in Eternals series before that. What are you talking about? Irony.

leonidas
Originally posted by abhilegend
They only appeared in Eternals series before that. What are you talking about?

what? they were the subject of thor for 15+ issues including at least one annual before 300 came out not to mention the history established for them in eternals. they were shown to be far above the skyfathers. even zuras was an equal to odin and zeus at that time and none of them could do anything at all about the celestials--they were less than insects to them. of course now odin can battle galactus without the destroyer armor and galactus has been shown to be above the celestials--or most of them. against the celestials the armor was powered by EVERY skyfather and still couldn't do jack to even one of them. clearly there is a huge difference in their portrayal. after that 300 issue they weren't even heard from for what, 5 or more years when the beyonder whipped them all down (later retconned as illusion).

my point stands--imo the celestials of that era (c. thor 300) would wreck monarch much more easily than they beat a destroyer powered by every skyfather. later portrayals may suggest otherwise.

Rage.Of.Olympus
The editorial team responded in the Thor letter pages how the Celestials were the next step in the cosmic order superior to Galactus, the Watchers and other Gods which was what they tried to show in Thor #300.

Only Abhi can know the context of that issue and think Monarch wouldn't get completely and thoroughly stomped. Even if you didn't....too think Monarch would be the Fourth Host? An entire group of Celestials, even with today's showings all included, some that place them thoroughly as Multiversal. Man the amounts of crack* needed to do that....

*Little known fact: The house of El is a recovery clinic for all those poor souls who rolled up old issues of Action comics, cooked them and shot themselves up for that good Superman high.

leonidas
lol yeah, i agree completely. in the context of that lengthy thor arc, monarch gets obliterated as easily as any or all of the skyfathers would and did. /shrug

i know a read an article about the celestials though, comparing them now and with what they had intended to be initially, but for the life of me a can't recall where.... sad

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
what? they were the subject of thor for 15+ issues including at least one annual before 300 came out not to mention the history established for them in eternals. they were shown to be far above the skyfathers.

The skyfathers were made look bad to promote them. Before Thor 300 they didn't do shit but stand around.

That's quite a big hyperbole. Yes, they defeated Odin Destroyer but it took a combined attack from them to do so.

Thor survived several attacks from them as well.


Contrary to Galactus fanboys Galactus was always skyfather level and around Odin in power.

Which Celestials was Galactus shown above?



Destroyer was only powered by a portion of power from skyfathers.

Destroyer was only packing punches enough to destroy planets. By the description Thor fanboys tell me for a galaxy Destroyer like Odin that's a big downgrade.

Celestials beating Odin Destroyer doesn't means they can beat Monarch. Thor was alone chipping Celestial armor and surviving attacks from Celestials. Monarch was killing Supermen across multiverse and no sold 39 captain atoms simultaneously.

Celestials don't win here.

Damborgson
"But Odun ain't dat speshul"

The leagues above Odin that Monarch would need to be to even challenge the Celestials simply isn't realistic.

Thor damaging them is because he's Thor. Not some level reducing low showing.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The editorial team responded in the Thor letter pages how the Celestials were the next step in the cosmic order superior to Galactus, the Watchers and other Gods which was what they tried to show in Thor #300.


So? Monarch was a legitimate universal power which is more than anything Galactus, Watchers or Celestials can do.



laughing out loud

So they beat Monarch because they beat Odin?

Here is the raw power of Odin Destroyer on display.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3319633-0+(28).jpg


The combined power of the skyfathers.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111134695/4232870-1702905911-38111.jpg

Planetary level only.

BTW, any monitor will shit down Odin's throat worse than Jane did and Monarch scared them all.



Still crying over beta Odinson, eh? Don't worry, Jane will teach him how to be a hero while Cho spanks him in upcoming issue.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Damborgson
"But Odun ain't dat speshul"

The leagues above Odin that Monarch would need to be to even challenge the Celestials simply isn't realistic.

Thor damaging them is because he's Thor. Not some level reducing low showing.
Odin is vastly below the level of Monitors. Monarch made them shit themselves.

Should I start a thread with Monitors and Odin?

leonidas
Originally posted by abhilegend
The skyfathers were made look bad to promote them. Before Thor 300 they didn't do shit but stand around.

That's quite a big hyperbole. Yes, they defeated Odin Destroyer but it took a combined attack from them to do so.

Thor survived several attacks from them as well.


Contrary to Galactus fanboys Galactus was always skyfather level and around Odin in power.

Which Celestials was Galactus shown above?



Destroyer was only powered by a portion of power from skyfathers.

Destroyer was only packing punches enough to destroy planets. By the description Thor fanboys tell me for a galaxy Destroyer like Odin that's a big downgrade.

Celestials beating Odin Destroyer doesn't means they can beat Monarch. Thor was alone chipping Celestial armor and surviving attacks from Celestials. Monarch was killing Supermen across multiverse and no sold 39 captain atoms simultaneously.

Celestials don't win here.

there is sooo much low balling in that group of sentences i'm not even gonna bother. lol you...really don't do yourself a lot of favors sometimes around here my friend. in one thread, AM states flat out, in black and white, that supergirl almost kills him and we see, blatantly on panel, that he is right. maybe she was just being given her final big moment. regardless, it happened. to which you say--'mere words' lol then here, you go out and say the skyfathers were 'made to look bad by writers' to pump up the celestials. please don't tell me you can't see how utterly, transparently and hilariously hypocritical that is? you'll actually flat out, like blatantly, ignore black and white, on panel evidence as presented against a dc character, and to downplay a marvel one you'll resort to crying out about imaginary pis. dude, that's just.... lol

in that arc, they were exponentially more powerful than the skyfathers. crying about the writers doesn't help your case. lowballing what i said about the destroyer being imbued with power from every single skyfather also doesn't help your case. imo that destroyer would completely wreck monarch, without much trouble tbh. that it dwarfed odin in power is more than enough reason for me to make that assumption. obviously you disagree but i just can't continue discussing this with you because i know the lowballing will just irritate me. lol

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
there is sooo much low balling in that group of sentences i'm not even gonna bother. lol you...really don't do yourself a lot of favors sometimes around here my friend. in one thread, AM states flat out, in black and white, that supergirl almost kills him and we see, blatantly on panel, that he is right.
If by being right you mean he kills her in one attack and later survived his suit being destroyed which made him "almost killed", sure.

I'm not doing anything lowballing here. Sorry to burst your bubble if you think Odin is someone special among skyfathers. He is not.
In one scene Supergirl punches AM a couple of times who then oneshots and kills her.

In other scene, Odin and combined skyfathers can only muster planetary attacks.

How does either of these correlate, I have no idea at all.



Where did I say anything about PIS or whatever?

AM oneshot killed Supergirl after all the hyperbole and shit.

Celestials couldn't even kill Thor after repeated attacks.

Let's go ahead and match pre crisis Kryptoninans with Thor, shall we?



A planetary power aka Destroyer as shown in Thor 300 is going to wreck a blatantly universal power like Monarch?

Proof of that please.

Insane Titan
So how does Monarch beats the fourth host then Abhi.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Insane Titan
So how does Monarch beats the fourth host then Abhi.
Just blasting them tends to work fine.

leonidas
oi....

(a) is a weakening superman prime also a universal level power abhi? because monarch could definitively NOT beat him.

(b) you think monarch beats, say, imperiex (a true universal level power) despite how insignificant owaw superman was compared to him...?

then i could go into the fact that you've said multiple times sundipped superman>superman prime so that must mean sundipped superman is also a universal level power? greater since he's>prime=monarch? see how easy it is to move away from a topic and extrapolate based on things that are only tangential to the debate? and that's completely without taking anything away from any of the above characters....

Damborgson
Originally posted by leonidas
there is sooo much low balling in that group of sentences i'm not even gonna bother. lol you...really don't do yourself a lot of favors sometimes around here my friend. in one thread, AM states flat out, in black and white, that supergirl almost kills him and we see, blatantly on panel, that he is right. maybe she was just being given her final big moment. regardless, it happened. to which you say--'mere words' lol then here, you go out and say the skyfathers were 'made to look bad by writers' to pump up the celestials. please don't tell me you can't see how utterly, transparently and hilariously hypocritical that is? you'll actually flat out, like blatantly, ignore black and white, on panel evidence as presented against a dc character, and to downplay a marvel one you'll resort to crying out about imaginary pis. dude, that's just.... lol

in that arc, they were exponentially more powerful than the skyfathers. crying about the writers doesn't help your case. lowballing what i said about the destroyer being imbued with power from every single skyfather also doesn't help your case. imo that destroyer would completely wreck monarch, without much trouble tbh. that it dwarfed odin in power is more than enough reason for me to make that assumption. obviously you disagree but i just can't continue discussing this with you because i know the lowballing will just irritate me. lol

This is a good way of putting it.

To say that the writers are downplaying characters just to make another look good, would effectively render any and all new threat as over inflated PIS ridden nonsense because they're strong only because heroes are being weakened to make them look good.

And the idea that because a character has 'bigger' feats in the past, that there's something less impressive about the celestials utterly no-selling 3 skyfathers, is blatantly stupid. But, you know whatever.

Doomsday and Imperiex probes really aren't that impressive I guess. Because the heroes they beat were being lowballed to make them look good, and this is the truth 100% thumb up

Insane Titan

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The editorial team responded in the Thor letter pages how the Celestials were the next step in the cosmic order superior to Galactus, the Watchers and other Gods which was what they tried to show in Thor #300.

Only Abhi can know the context of that issue and think Monarch wouldn't get completely and thoroughly stomped. Even if you didn't....too think Monarch would be the Fourth Host? An entire group of Celestials, even with today's showings all included, some that place them thoroughly as Multiversal. Man the amounts of crack* needed to do that....

*Little known fact: The house of El is a recovery clinic for all those poor souls who rolled up old issues of Action comics, cooked them and shot themselves up for that good Superman high. laughing out loud

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
oi....

(a) is a weakening superman prime also a universal level power abhi? because monarch could definitively NOT beat him.


You tell me.

Originally posted by abhilegend
SBP destroyed Earth 15 universe too.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b3/8b/8e/b38b8e769eff1bf9a836a8923f9333ad.jpg



They are in same level of power, so maybe.

And OWAW Superman while sundipped wasn't insignificant against Imperiex.

And you're using circular logic to tell us how they are not that powerful.

Sundipped Superman overpowered Brainiac 13's Warworld empowered by Imperiex and was stated to kill Worloggog powered Vera Black in one punch. Both are legitimate universal powers.

Don't tell me you fall into the same trap as "it's Superman so he can't be that powerful".

How about Odin dying against Mangog or getting oneshotted by him? Mangog can't be that powerful, right?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Damborgson
This is a good way of putting it.

To say that the writers are downplaying characters just to make another look good, would effectively render any and all new threat as over inflated PIS ridden nonsense because they're strong only because heroes are being weakened to make them look good.

And the idea that because a character has 'bigger' feats in the past, that there's something less impressive about the celestials utterly no-selling 3 skyfathers, is blatantly stupid. But, you know whatever.


And they failed to no sell Thor in the very same arc.

So does that mean Thor>>> Three skyfathers?



Kyle Rayner literally contained a big bang in the very same arc.

Some lowballing right there mate.

abhilegend

abhilegend
And Celestials are vulnerable to draining as well.

https://s26.postimg.org/gsvtdaa6d/p20_12_copy.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/4fiz6dkhx/p20_17_copy.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/ri9i5jlz9/p20_18_copy.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/sltmhi6md/p20_19_copy.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/3m6ddreh1/p20_7_copy.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/y4w5yq3np/p20_8_copy.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/gxzkmyhhh/p_13_01.jpg

Mindset
Celestials

Insane Titan
Lmao the Celestials used in this match up are from the arc what attacked Asgard, other showings are irrelevant here.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Lmao the Celestials used in this match up are from the arc what attacked Asgard, other showings are irrelevant here.
So since they went undefeated, nobody can defeat them?

What level of beings can beat the celestials from Thor 300?

Insane Titan

abhilegend
How am I ignoring the story? You know these characters appeared after the story right?

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
How am I ignoring the story? You know these characters appeared after the story right? They easily breach his armor. A green lantern did so. They can also reform and recover from any damage they incur though it won't be much if any. This is a stomp of the highest order. Spite.

cdtm
Originally posted by Digi
iirc, in the Destroyer armor and with Uni-Mind, the Celestials basically no-sold him. I won't get into Monarch v. Odin specifically - I know the old guy has gotten a severe depowerment compared to his old days...but that's also part of the point. He was >>>> his more recent self in terms of feats and portrayals. Him getting wrecked against the 4th Host was, at the time, legitimately shocking.

So yeah, Celestials win imo.

Monarch destroyed a universe under his own power. Only time Odin ever did that was when combined with Infinity or something...

Even Celestials haven't ever busted universes on panel, to my knowledge.

quanchi112
It was a chain reaction that was caused after his defeat by Superboy Prime who can't do so either. Prime just bested him. Context is everything. This is about one character vs another group and who wins. Celestials can reform from the blast as well if need be. The Monitor outright survived it.

cdtm
SBP was also guardian amped, and literally punched into the fifth dimensiom and kidnapped Mxy.

Just to rip through to the fifth dimension is > any Celestial feat ever.

quanchi112
Originally posted by cdtm
SBP was also guardian amped, and literally punched into the fifth dimensiom and kidnapped Mxy.

Just to rip through to the fifth dimension is > any Celestial feat ever. You are again ignoring the context. Have you even read these comics ? That's rhetorical I know the answer. Mxy had his will sapped and his power drained by another character called Annataz. If you ignore the context then it's obviously more impressive.

And the fifth dimension feat was during infinite crisis when reality was in flux due to Alexander Luthor. This is about these guys against each other not feats. Please try to critically think and be objective in these debates.

Celestials stomp.

leonidas
Originally posted by abhilegend
You tell me.

if you're asking my opinion, most certainly not. not even close tbh. you're suggesting prime be moved from trans/skyfather to....universal level? that seems crazy to me. equally crazy that monarch is viewed as universal level. /shrug



again i think that's crazy talk.



it took him being empowered by-literally-the essence of the UNIVERSE (kismet) to pierce his armor. sun dipped was nowhere CLOSE to being able to take on imperiex directly. not even a question my friend.



c'mon abhi. you do it REGULARLY. make your case WITHOUT low balling the other side. you'll have better luck convincing people of your arguments.



doesn't mean he is a universal power. seriously? c'mon....



and....lowballing. dude, make your case FOR your guy instead of arguing AGAINST the other guy. it's very easy to argue that way but rarely works because you end up dismissing all the good showings the other guy has.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by cdtm
Monarch destroyed a universe under his own power. Only time Odin ever did that was when combined with Infinity or something...

He did displace a universe. I think that's pretty up there.
http://i60.tinypic.com/jhvqr5.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/dggg42.jpg

"Id"
Originally posted by abhilegend
Exitar was stated to be more powerful than entire fourth host and while powerful he was never shown as a legit universal power.
Uncanny Avengers says he is. But somehow your going to twist the scans shown against the fact. Am I right?
https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t/36257838_Uncanny_Avengers_021-019.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t/36257839_Uncanny_Avengers_021-020.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Reason?
Just because the Celestials do not choose to tear down the universe does not mean they do not have the power to do so. In this case you have Monarch take on about 10 Celestials....each considered a universal force or higher.

Thats plain overkill.

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
if you're asking my opinion, most certainly not. not even close tbh. you're suggesting prime be moved from trans/skyfather to....universal level? that seems crazy to me. equally crazy that monarch is viewed as universal level. /shrug


So GA prime and Monarch actually destroying an entire universe doesn't makes them universal?

Could you explain why?


Why?





Normal Superman being powered up. Sundipped Superman overpowered Warworld which drained Imperiex's power and B13 was actually using it to counter Superman from moving the planet but was totally ineffective.

Strange way to depict sundipped Superman being insignificant to Imperiex.



I'm not lowballing anybody here. I'm just going by what's on panel. It's not my problem if you don't like that.

Why not? He was twice shown that way under the same writer.

This is simply "Superman can't be that powerful because are you serious" argument I expect from someone not you.





What good showing did I dismissed here? Just curious.

And the sheer irony isn't lost on me either.

abhilegend
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He did displace a universe. I think that's pretty up there.
http://i60.tinypic.com/jhvqr5.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/dggg42.jpg
Pocket universe. Impressive but not out of norm for skyfathers.

abhilegend
Originally posted by "Id"
Uncanny Avengers says he is. But somehow your going to twist the scans shown against the fact. Am I right?
https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t/36257838_Uncanny_Avengers_021-019.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t/36257839_Uncanny_Avengers_021-020.jpg


Let me show another quote from someone not prone to hyperbolic statements like Kang.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u6s5TNKaV18/U6sTNf7SOrI/AAAAAAADzTU/4t_7ObvLGjg/s1600/-015.jpg

"I'll teleport your great energies to feed a dying star".

Considering Kang got his ass handed to him by Havok and Sunfire draining power from him, I'm less likely to take kang on his gloating.




By that logic, Monarch must be omniversal because why not? He doesn't only chose to destroy the omniverse, he already has that power.

Let's see celestials record en masse , shall we?

Dozens of celestials ran away from Galactus Engine.
Entire Celestial race was captured by a single cosmic cube in reality 691.
Godkiller armor literally killed billions of Celestials.
Entire Celestial race was stalemated by watcher race for thousands of years.
Ego was shown stalemating dozens of Celestials at once.
X-Terminators killed untold number of Celestials.

Gee, that's a lot of universal showings right there.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by abhilegend
Pocket universe. Impressive but not out of norm for skyfathers.
Just curious. When was it stated to be a "pocket uni"? Mayne I missed something. Also if it is a "pocket uni", how big is it in relation to a regular one?

abhilegend
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Just curious. When was it stated to be a "pocket uni"? Mayne I missed something. Also if it is a "pocket uni", how big is it in relation to a regular one?
Asgard and related realms are pocket universes. Even as recently as Unworthy Thor entire old Asgard space was stored in a part of a small solar system sized ship.

Traditionally Asgard and related realms were only continental sized chunks of masses. Now who knows.

"Id"
Originally posted by abhilegend
Let me show another quote from someone not prone to hyperbolic statements like Kang.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u6s5TNKaV18/U6sTNf7SOrI/AAAAAAADzTU/4t_7ObvLGjg/s1600/-015.jpg

"I'll teleport your great energies to feed a dying star".

Considering Kang got his ass handed to him by Havok and Sunfire draining power from him, I'm less likely to take kang on his gloating.




By that logic, Monarch must be omniversal because why not? He doesn't only chose to destroy the omniverse, he already has that power.

Let's see celestials record en masse , shall we?

Dozens of celestials ran away from Galactus Engine.
Entire Celestial race was captured by a single cosmic cube in reality 691.
Godkiller armor literally killed billions of Celestials.
Entire Celestial race was stalemated by watcher race for thousands of years.
Ego was shown stalemating dozens of Celestials at once.
X-Terminators killed untold number of Celestials.

Gee, that's a lot of universal showings right there.

You are alone in this topic in your own thoughts.
Fans of both companies that take their time to deconstruct what we read can not back you up on your claims.

abhilegend
Originally posted by "Id"
You are alone in this topic in your own thoughts.
Fans of both companies that take their time to deconstruct what we read can not back you up on your claims.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Way to prove yourself dude.

"Id"
Originally posted by abhilegend
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Way to prove yourself dude.

Ahbi. Your obsession with comics and in trying to Prove DC Superiority over Marvel in just about every topic is making you delusional.

Have a nice day with your thoughts.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by abhilegend
Asgard and related realms are pocket universes. Even as recently as Unworthy Thor entire old Asgard space was stored in a part of a small solar system sized ship.

Traditionally Asgard and related realms were only continental sized chunks of masses. Now who knows.
Old Asgard proper and not "Old Asgard Space" was stolen from the Old Asgard Space and stored in the Collector's ship.


Btw Angela had traveled to different planets/moons while in the tenth realm.
http://imgur.com/3qPWX0B.jpg


Even different galaxies... All prior to getting dropped into 616.
http://i61.tinypic.com/mkzxgl.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by "Id"
Ahbi. Your obsession with comics and in trying to Prove DC Superiority over Marvel in just about every topic is making you delusional.

Have a nice day with your thoughts.
ermm

Seriously?

Good day to you.

quanchi112
Originally posted by "Id"
Ahbi. Your obsession with comics and in trying to Prove DC Superiority over Marvel in just about every topic is making you delusional.

Have a nice day with your thoughts. Ouch.

laughing out loud

abhilegend
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Old Asgard proper and not "Old Asgard Space" was stolen from the Old Asgard Space and stored in the Collector's ship.


Btw Angela had traveled to different planets/moons while in the tenth realm.
http://imgur.com/3qPWX0B.jpg


Even different galaxies... All prior to getting dropped into 616.
http://i61.tinypic.com/mkzxgl.jpg
Yes, Old Asgard which was entirety of Asgard.

Where is that from? Because Aaron didn't show Tenth Realm to be that big.

And all Odin did was create a barrier around tenth realm. When Thor broke the seal, the realm was again connected with the Yggdrasil.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CEEhm7PvNlo/VAHo_j0Yx7I/AAAAAAAEp_g/Zr09Ee1zKYk/s1600/-004%2Bcopy.jpg

It was the same barrier Odin put on old Asgard.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dqBYGJwId9g/VAHpF1B7ENI/AAAAAAAEqAo/-7eKg8fBTJw/s1600/-013%2Bcopy.jpg

Tenth Realm wasn't moved from Yggdrasil, Odin just hid it.

leonidas
Originally posted by abhilegend
So GA prime and Monarch actually destroying an entire universe doesn't makes them universal?

Could you explain why?

where are the scans that show the feats exactly...? acting as a catalyst=/=having universe-destroying power, which is what is required to be a truly universal level being.



see above.



strange way to assume he wasn't. as with so many of your extrapolations, you have too many degrees of separation for your argument to hold any weight at all. if writers wanted to you think a sun dip put superman at universal levels (lol) they'd have shown it when he faced imperiex. you literally expect us to believe that that sun dip granted him power that rivaled or equaled the power he gained when he was bonded with the essence of the universe itself. and you don't see the craziness in that? again, c'mon....



of course you are. you already brought up mangog and i've lost the number of times you bring up the whole ant thing. more to the point: YOUR ENTIRE STANCE IS PREDICATED ON A LOW BALLING OF THE CELESTIAL SHOWING VS THE SKYFATHERS! LOL if we look at odin alone's best feats no selling him is very solid. factor in 2 other high skyfathers attacked with him, and add in the fact that the destroyer, granted power by all skyfathers, couldn't do anything against arishem and there is no way to dismiss the showing UNLESS you low ball it. lol



that i DO have an issue with what you're saying should tell you just how hair-brained it is. stick out tongue it has nothing to do with superman and his potential. bonded with kismet he became part of a universal power. sun-dipped? not even close imo. pushing against some power=/=being a universal power no matter how much you want to conflate the 2. a 'true' universal power has power over the universe, or a fundamental force of the universe. monarch doesn't have that. seriously, put monarch against truly universal level beings. pretty sure it would end like this one, with you on your own. not that that is a real indicator around here of right and wrong, but you have a noticeable lack of support from people who generally lean in your direction. that speaks volumes. /shrug



you have ALREADY labelled the skyfathers showing vs arishem as PIS, what are you talking about? then when someone brings up a good feat for a skyfather to show how great that showing was, you lowball skyfathers. and if that's not bad enough you start talking about/low balling celestials based on later showings who have nothing to do with this thread. then, when someone brings up GOOD feats from later showings, you low ball THOSE! laughing out loud it's so ingrained in you it's become second nature. you don't even realize you're doing it. it's like it's become reflex. dude, i know you usually know your sh!t. this time i think you're dead wrong in almost all ways. i admire your willingness to take on 6 at once lol so i'll make your job easier and bow out since you have literally no chance of changing my mind anyway. so carry on. this is a bad hill to die on though....

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
where are the scans that show the feats exactly...? acting as a catalyst=/=having universe-destroying power, which is what is required to be a truly universal level being.


Monarch destroyed Earth 51 universe. Monitors had to rebuild it.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2edzhid.jpg

Prime destroyed Earth 15 universe and it was explained in Multiversity.

Uh, what?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok, its often asked just how powerful Sundipped Superman was compared to normal Superman in OWAW.

So first lets see how Normal Superman, Captain Marvel, Captain Atom and Wonder Woman were faring against mere hardlight constructs of Warworld.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028860/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg09.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028862/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg10.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028865/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg11.jpg.html

Not great it seems. Entropy Aegis comes and oneshots all of them in one panel.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028866/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg12.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028868/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg13.jpg.html

Now Warworld's tendril that was connecting to Earth. It was so strong that a suicide attempt by Maxima and Massacre was just enough to send a shiver through it.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028862/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg10.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028865/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg11.jpg.html

Entropy Aegis severed it in one attack though. The tendrils healed back.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028866/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg12.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028868/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg13.jpg.html

And even Themyscira thrown to the tendril barely caused any trouble to it.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028871/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg14.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24028872/Man_Of_Steel_117_pg15.jpg.html

Superman, Captain Marvel and Captain Atom were unable to do anything to it apparently, so they went in to divert B13's attention. So far so good.

Until B13 makes the tendrils a hundred times more powerful and even Entropy Aegis is useless.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/24028971_Action_Comics_782_pg12.jpg

Superman sundipped and effortlessly broke the conduits/tendrils magnified hundredfold in power when normal Superman couldn't take it on at normal level along with several top tiers.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips2.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips3.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips4.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips5.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips6.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips7.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips8.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips9.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips10.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips11.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips12.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips13.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips14.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supessundips15.jpg

Superman was at least powered up by a factor of hundreds.

Let me guess, Brainiac with Imperiex power who was getting even more powerful was less powerful than Imperiex?



All of the skyfathers combined attacks were planetary. So were Destroyer's attacks.

You're using Odin's best feats and supplanting them on celestials. That's not how it works.



So again nothing but ad hominem?

B13 with Imperiex's power isn't a universal being? Why couldn't he just stop Superman if he wasn't at that level and just watch helplessly as Superman simply pushed him to to his death?

You're again interchanging versatility with power. Those are not inclusive deals. What Superman lacked in versatility he made it up with his raw power.





No, I didn't. I said it's a low showing for skyfathers.

There is a big difference in both.

I like how you are frothing at the mouth because I dare say planetary feats for skyfathers is a low showing for them.

celeyhyga17
.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, Old Asgard which was entirety of Asgard.
Wrong. Old Asgard in the Collector's ship is just Asgard proper. There is still Old Asgard space. There's an actual space where these land masses reside.
http://oi60.tinypic.com/jhvqr5.jpg

http://readcomicbooksonline.net/reader/Thor_God_Of_Thunder_2013/Thor_God_Of_Thunder_(2013)_11/8

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-J8IXfMiYwkM/WOzYnCuk7hI/AAAAAAADJvI/f3e1vV6rYeY_NTSEiavSZhAz88MZ2dmzwCLcB/s1600/82_18.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend

Where is that from? Because Aaron didn't show Tenth Realm to be that big.
Flashbacks shown in Angela's books. Angel grew up travelling and hunting in different galaxies. Kinda shows the tenth realm had its own working cosmos.

Aaron or rather the artist depicting Heven proper being torn doesn't mean the tenth realm was tiny.

Originally posted by abhilegend

And all Odin did was create a barrier around tenth realm. When Thor broke the seal, the realm was again connected with the Yggdrasil.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CEEhm7PvNlo/VAHo_j0Yx7I/AAAAAAAEp_g/Zr09Ee1zKYk/s1600/-004%2Bcopy.jpg

It was the same barrier Odin put on old Asgard.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dqBYGJwId9g/VAHpF1B7ENI/AAAAAAAEqAo/-7eKg8fBTJw/s1600/-013%2Bcopy.jpg

Tenth Realm wasn't moved from Yggdrasil, Odin just hid it.
Not sure what ure trying to get at here.

Odin erecting a barrier to hide and keep them from connecting to the rest of the ten(nine) realms doesn't negate the fact that he "tore" it off from the world tree.

How do u think characters are depicted travelling from one universe to the next? Sometimes it's as simple as them stepping a few feet into a portal and then poof, they are in a completely new universe. Just because it was "hidden" doesn't mean it's close by or easily traversed.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
Asgard and related realms are pocket universes. Even as recently as Unworthy Thor entire old Asgard space was stored in a part of a small solar system sized ship.

Traditionally Asgard and related realms were only continental sized chunks of masses. Now who knows.
Yup. This has ALWAYS been the case too. Mr. Master had a scan from an early 90s Dr. Strange comic where Dr. Strange straight up said Asgard and other 'godly' realms aren't true universes but much smaller pocket dimensions. I can't find the scan and I've been looking for the past hour sad

leonidas
Originally posted by abhilegend
Monarch destroyed Earth 51 universe. Monitors had to rebuild it.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2edzhid.jpg

Prime destroyed Earth 15 universe and it was explained in Multiversity.

uh, so....nothing on panel. i can't even imagine--no never i can imagine exactly--what you do to people on the opposite side of a debate who show something like that. off panel=/=who cares. how did he destroy though, out of curiosity...? and what about monarch's feat of universal destruction?



being able to push brainiac=/=universal power. not sure what's not computing. if he had all of imperiex's power at his disposal, why not just blast supes with entropy, exactly the way imperiex obliterated doomsday? simple. he couldn't use imperiex's power like imperiex did. ffs, why not just teleport war world away from him if brainiac was so all-powerful??

pushing brainiac=/=beating imperiex OR being a universal power. it just means he was really really strong. can't believe this has to be explained to you.

btw most of those sh!tty photobucket scans are all broken.



lol now THAT's ironic. but cool, if we're sticking to the letter of the text, then arishem's own answering blast was "immeasurably more potent" than all three combined. and the destroyer that faced the celestials? guess what? "virtually all-powerful". and that was BEFORE odin put not only the combined powers of all the skyfathers into the destroyer, but also his own life force AND the totality of the life force of asgard itself.

that should end the discussion, right? wait, you'll accept that the god blasts were "planetary" but that the other terminology was all hyperbole, right? you don't get to pick and choose. and you realize odin created a sword in that book with his own power that if unsheathed by the wrong person was capable of "rending the fabric of infinity" itself.



no, they really aren't. at all. you think a sun dipped superman can beat kismet?? eternity?? geezus, this is the most absurd argument i've ever seen you struggle to make. i'm convinced even YOU don't believe it, but are in too deep and can't back out now....



low for them or extremely high for the celestials, who, in that book, were said to be capable of laying waste a universe? we all know where you'll fall out. in that book, celestials are said to be able to destroy a universe. crystal clear. a random celestial also blocked the disintegration beam without effort--and that beam was ridiculously amped. at normal levels it was said to be able to kill a skyfather.



laughing out loud

frothing? if i were pissed you'd know it. this is pointless. monarch gets obliterated by the celestials. imo his blasts would be blocked as easily--more easily--than the destroyer's disintegration beam would be. you can die on this hill alone, but clearly this is pointless. i am content to let everyone read this, and confident you are incapable of convincing anyone at all that a sun dipped superman is anymore universal in power than monarch is.

cdtm
I don't know, Destroyer is powerful, yes.. It's also clearly waaaay beneath Celestials.

Pretty sure Monarch can at least take AD in base form. I mean, Thor and Hulk at least stagger the thing, while Monarch just stood there and didn't even react to teams that included Superman, Lanterns, Captain Atoms..

RealityWarper
Originally posted by "Id"
Ahbi. Your obsession with comics and in trying to Prove DC Superiority over Marvel in just about every topic is making you delusional.

Have a nice day with your thoughts.

Very accurate answer thumb up

RealityWarper
@Leonidas

Technically Monarch is supposed to be limitless in power.

However the Celestials are too IIRC.

Kubik, whom possess Universal power, stated that the Celestials dwarves him and Beyonder in power.

So by feat we can think that the Celestials are more powerful than Monarch.

cdtm
And then Galactus beat a few Celestials, who is a far cry from universal+, at least normally.

abhilegend
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wrong. Old Asgard in the Collector's ship is just Asgard proper. There is still Old Asgard space. There's an actual space where these land masses reside.
http://oi60.tinypic.com/jhvqr5.jpg

http://readcomicbooksonline.net/reader/Thor_God_Of_Thunder_2013/Thor_God_Of_Thunder_(2013)_11/8

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-J8IXfMiYwkM/WOzYnCuk7hI/AAAAAAADJvI/f3e1vV6rYeY_NTSEiavSZhAz88MZ2dmzwCLcB/s1600/82_18.jpg


Yes, there is. But Asgard as itself isn't that big. Just like Haven.

No, it doesn't adds to the feat if the later writers added something not taken into account. Aaron simply did not depict such.

No, it being tiny is it being tiny.

And Thor's lightning untore it off?

Only the gateway to Haven was sealed. Not entire realm was moved.



That's because it was right where it always was. Just its connection to Yggdrasil sealed off.

BTW that scan where it is said that prison of gods was the size of the universe, it was Asgard and not tenth realm.

https://s26.postimg.org/6vggil7bp/-002.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/k0vyop179/-002.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/c9f8q4x1x/-002.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/mkrlisor9/-002_copy.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/oqlwdas7p/-010_copy.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/dsamv43md/-012_copy.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/7343f3iad/-018_copy.jpg

That's the size of the "universe" as per Aaron.

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
uh, so....nothing on panel. i can't even imagine--no never i can imagine exactly--what you do to people on the opposite side of a debate who show something like that. off panel=/=who cares. how did he destroy though, out of curiosity...? and what about monarch's feat of universal destruction?


That's from Monarch's explosion.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103729/3602747-4106157259-34700.jpg






ermm

He tried blasting Superman with Imperiex's power. Superman flat out ignored it.

Did you even read the comic? Brainiac's whole plan was to connect apokolips and earth to gain even more power.

You're just using circular logic now.



laughing out loud

The same old KMC myth that unless you are versatile you're not actually powerful.



At least I'm posting scans. All you're doing is denying everything.

Yes, virtually all powerful on planetary level. Marvel has ranked even omnipotence, y'know.



Yes, it could cut through space time. Persuader's axe does it everyday.

Flowery language leo, read it very carefully.



In that comic? He was capable of ignoring direct attacks from universal beings and overpowered them. It was an absurdly high feat for him. You're still not grasping how absurd.



Where is all of this stated? Scans please.

laughing out loud

This is as hilarious and pointless retort I've seen from you leo. No debate point, just blind devotion to celestials and skyfathers.

Mr Master
Originally posted by zopzop
Yup. This has ALWAYS been the case too. Mr. Master had a scan from an early 90s Dr. Strange comic where Dr. Strange straight up said Asgard and other 'godly' realms aren't true universes but much smaller pocket dimensions. It's true, classic Asgard-Space (formaly known as the "Sea of Space"wink was a pocket-dimension, as were the other Pantheon realms. But they were never "continental' size chunks, that's utter bullshit. There is no exact size stamped that I know of, but I do know they have their own vast area of space-time with stellar systemS included. There's an issue where Heimdall says he hears a butterfly feeding several million light years away, while in Asgard-Space. I'll get the scan.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Mr Master
It's true, classic Asgard-Space (formaly known as the "Sea of Space"wink was a pocket-dimension, as were the other Pantheon realms. But they were never "continental' size chunks, that's utter bullshit. There is no exact size stamped that I know of, but I do know they have their own vast area of space-time with stellar systemS included. There's an issue where Heimdall says he hears a butterfly feeding several million light years away, while in Asgard-Space. I'll get the scan.
https://s26.postimg.org/nbtyzfmu1/u.a.d.n.004.jpg

It was also shown in a Thor annual IIRC.

Mr Master
Ok, that bio doesn't dispute what I posted in the slightest. At the edge of the landmass a void with gravitational sources surrounds the Asgard landmass. On panel, that "void" is minimum "several million light-years" in size. And no wonder there's gravity out there since Heimdall heard a butterfly on some planet feeding.

abhilegend
It flat out stated that the surface area is only continental sized.

And Heimdall was hearing normal earth space. There are no other planets in Asgard.

abhilegend
To think, this was like when Darkseid hid Apokolips from anti matter wave in COIE.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3O0I17oh8ag/VKTlw4U9C8I/AAAAAAAHGpc/TkU9Y98kZo4/s1600/p10_12%2Bcopy.jpg

Yet another scene where Odin is comparable to post crisis Darkseid.

leonidas
https://imgur.com/a/hBxE2

i never bothered to show scans of the things i was saying because i assumed you had the book open beside you...

and who cares what happened when monarch died? not option he'd employ.

you keep bringing up the planetary level (lol) of the attacks. so where are the casual blasts of planetary energy that monarch was letting off at will? and i'd REALLY like a scan of a blast that literally DWARF the amped destroyer's disintegration ray. because even that was casually dismissed with a hand wave. you said blasting will work just fine--so, where are scans of these blasts that have a chance of hurting even one of the WEAKER celestials? (ie--NOT arishem or the one above all, who was also a part of the 4th host of course, and was the commander of the mission....)

quanchi112
Monarch fired off just nuclear level power by abhi's logic which hurt man prime badly. Celestials with utter ease.

leonidas
not often we're on the same page, but....kinds the way i see it too. /shrug

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
https://imgur.com/a/hBxE2


no expression

Are you serious here? Now I'm supposed to take Thor's statement literally where Odin is Almighty and Celestials can lay waste to an entire universe?

Guess pocket universe kryptoninans could lay waste to entire universes after all.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16789818/Superman_Annual_10_-_Ghosts_16.jpg.html




erm



That's one way to dismiss feats I guess.

Ask and you shall receive.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123396/3196949-iron+man+v5+013-010.jpg

All it takes was one Godkiller armor to kill trillions of Celestials.

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
not often we're on the same page, but....kinds the way i see it too. /shrug
Agreeing with quan eh?

laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
Agreeing with quan eh?

laughing out loud Says the guy who runs from me at every turn. I exposed your logic but you can't rebut my statement. It's very telling why you run from me.

leonidas
Originally posted by abhilegend
no expression

Are you serious here? Now I'm supposed to take Thor's statement literally where Odin is Almighty and Celestials can lay waste to an entire universe?

laughing out loud

you have no problem taking the word of the narrator that the attacks were all 'planetary' so why is this different? lol picking and choosing had 2 edges.



sure, if you wanna believe that go ahead. obviously the proof is....lacking. the celestials of thor 300 could def be believed to have that power though and even later feats suggest they have that type of power though everyone knows you'll low ball the sh!t out of them to try and make people think otherwise. just save me the effort and assume you've gone ahead and done it. thumb up



laughing out loud yeah, cuz monarch is gonna tear open his own armor and kill himself in the fight. makes sense. you really are irrationally desperate to keep this dream alive for some reason, eh?



no expression

i can't actually believe you posted that. laughing out loud desperate doesn't begin to describe this effort.

Originally posted by leonidas
you keep bringing up the planetary level (lol) of the attacks. so where are the casual blasts of planetary energy that MONARCH was letting off at will? and i'd REALLY like a scan of a blast that literally DWARF the amped destroyer's disintegration ray. because even that was casually dismissed with a hand wave. you said blasting will work just fine--so, where are scans of these blasts that have a chance of hurting even one of the WEAKER celestials? (ie--NOT arishem or the one above all, who was also a part of the 4th host of course, and was the commander of the mission....)

MONARCH. you know the guy you said could just "blast them"?? where are scans of MONARCH blasting at planetary and levels that dwarf planetary levels? instead you resort to a typical degrees of separation argument and utterly ridiculous extrapolations that have, LITERALLY, nothing at all to do with the characters in question on EITHER SIDE. staggering tbh.

SHOW MONARCH UNLEASHING BLASTS THAT ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN THE AMPED DESTROYER'S BLAST OR RECOGNIZE YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

clear enough? and no, his 'death energy' doesn't count. he wouldn't kill himself so don't pretend. a real, actual blast (FROM MONARCH) that could hurt the weakest celestial of the group. i'll wait.

cdtm
SBP tanked Anti Monitor's anti matter energy.

Anti matter energy killed Pre Crisis Supergirl.

Monarch hurt SMP, who's far more powerful then SBP. (Say what you will about universes in flux, or alt Zatanna being a factor, SMP still broke into the fifth dimension, kidnapped Mxy, beat him down so badly it weakened him to the point of fleeing after Zatanna's spell was broken..)

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
laughing out loud

you have no problem taking the word of the narrator that the attacks were all 'planetary' so why is this different? lol picking and choosing had 2 edges.

The narrator isn't prone to hyperbole like Thor is. But I guess Thor is right and Superman is wrong, eh?





I don't do that. I just go by what's on panel. A celestial's best feat is absorbing Franklin's pocket universe which was done by Ashema.





No, that was to just show his power which is universal.





So dismissal of showings again? Good to know. Mind telling me why that's desperate?





Writing in caps don't make you true. But if you think blasting doesn't works, here is Ashema destroying Tiamut with just those.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263415/47.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263416/48.jpg.html https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263417/49.jpg.html

What level is Destroyer's energy blast anyway? Planetary? Solar system level? Universal level?



laughing out loud

And what would be that level anyway? Here is Ikaris with Zuras' power ripping open Ghaur with Tiamut's power apart.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263418/1986.09.Eternals.v1.012.p01.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263419/1986.09.Eternals.v1.012.p02.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263420/1986.09.Eternals.v1.012.p27.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263421/1986.09.Eternals.v1.012.p28.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263422/1986.09.Eternals.v1.012.p29.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263423/1986.09.Eternals.v1.012.p30.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263424/1986.09.Eternals.v1.012.p31.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263425/1986.09.Eternals.v1.012.p32.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263426/1986.09.Eternals.v1.012.p33.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/36263427/1986.09.Eternals.v1.012.p34.jpg.html

Is that enough for you? Or is Monarch less powerful than Zuras too?

TethAdamTheRock
Monarch Slags Them Unless They Team up

leonidas
geezus bro..... i'm running out of words here. this isn't hard:

(a) we are talking about the celestials as depicted in thor 300

(b) we are talking about monarch

now, YOU claimed monarch can just blast them to pieces. cool. so,

(1) show the celestials as depicted in thor 300 being harmed by a blast. simple, yes?

then,

(2) show monarch being able to replicate that blast.

don't show someone OTHER than the characters specific to this thread doing anything because....? IT IS MEANINGLESS TO THIS THREAD. i hate writing in caps but this seems really hard for you. just show us all monarch's biggest blast of controlled power that didn't result in him, you know, dying.

regarding your latest meaningless effort to low ball (hilarious that you wondered why i suggest you low ball every time....): zuras was shown less powerful than zeus during that thor arc. zeus+odin+vishnu couldn't begin to approach celestial power, let alone the uselessness of the destroyer against them. so who gives a phukc what zuras did against a celestial that is NOT part of this discussion?

incidentally--that effort exemplifies the desperation i mentioned earlier. it is seen repeatedly by you when you use characters that have nothing to do with the thread. you're willing to go to any lengths to try and be right.

show MONARCH blasting with controlled power>>destroyer's disintegration beam or have the balls to admit you have nothing.

TethAdamTheRock
Monarch destroyed the universe when his armor was breached, and he hurt GA Prime Who would own these celestials

leonidas
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Monarch Slags Them Unless They Team up

laughing out loud

so YOU must have the blasting/slagging proof abhi's about willing to kill for. can't wait to see it so i can admit to being wrong. thumb up

leonidas
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Monarch destroyed the universe when his armor was breached

why do i bother.....?

quanchi112
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Monarch destroyed the universe when his armor was breached, and he hurt GA Prime Who would own these celestials When his armor is breached he loses. Period. Secondly a Monitor survived the blast outright and Celestials have shown the ability to reform.

GA Prime was hurt by nuclear power and his regular strength was enough to breach the armor not GA. smile

Celestials wins, easily.

TethAdamTheRock
His regular strength would easily rip through celestial armor imo

quanchi112
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
His regular strength would easily rip through celestial armor imo They can reform and hurt him. He can't reform. He was hurt by nuclear level power with an amp. Read the comics.

TethAdamTheRock
Reforming is a loss, celestials have been hurt by thor

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
geezus bro..... i'm running out of words here. this isn't hard:

(a) we are talking about the celestials as depicted in thor 300

Only you are. There is no restrictions of appearances of celestials as per OP.

Originally posted by backup
Ok, this guys:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/71813/1774318-1415547_superman_prime_vs_monarch_part_2_super.jpg

vs.

This team:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111250526/4769962-9557633865-tumbl.jpg

Who wins?



You have done nothing to refute that.



Why would I need to do that to show Celestials being harmed? Are Celestials' appearances limited to Thor 300?



So you have essentially set up something which can't be done as you'll refute everything from Monarch as not enough.

What is the criteria and what level of power is needed to do that what you are asking?



For what purpose? You're focused entirely on refuting anything from Monarch without telling us why.



Excellent ABC comparison. Yet another showing dismissed.

Its like everything for Celestials except Thor 300 is them being lowballed.

How about you make a case without Thor 300?



Tiamut isn't a celestial? Didn't you ask for what it takes to damage a celestial?



I'm again asking you, what level of power is needed to show it being more powerful than destroyer's attack so I can present my case. They don't have any direct comparisons after all.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Reforming is a loss, celestials have been hurt by thor No, it isn't. Plus we didn't see them reform from their entire body being destroyed. A limb or so but we didn't see Prime use this kind of power. Prime has been ko'd by the teen titans. Beaten down.

laughing out loud

Utrigita
Originally posted by leonidas
why do i bother.....?

Sucker for punishment?

leonidas
Originally posted by abhilegend
Only you are. There is no restrictions of appearances of celestials as per OP.


ohhhh i see. yur moving goalposts so you can include all showings. funny, where exactly, aside from that thor 300, was the entire 4th host shown? and better yet, where did odin face them?

laughing out loud

the OP says monarch REPLACES ODIN. now at least i KNOW you're simply trolling.



lol



nice change of tactic. transparent, and utterly against what the thread starter was going for, but yeah, hell of an effort at strawmanning.



yeah I'M the one who set it up. are you kidding right now? you come in all holier than thou about how monarch is universal levels and can just blast the sh!t out of the celestials and i call you on it and say show me a celestial from the material in question even being harmed by an attack but somehow I'M setting this up? dude, you must think i'm a complete idiot or something.



well, how about this:

Originally posted by abhilegend
Monarch is quite a bit above Odin.

first, i didn't know quite a bit above him meant universal. but using your words as a gauge, a SINGLE celestial no sold levels of power that dwarfed his own. the destroyer had ALL of odin's power (including all the life force of asgard) and power from every single skyfather on earth. so...i dunno. really, really powerful. just show monarch's greatest controlled release of power. i'm sure everyone will be able to judge for themselves.



have you read your posts? blink

i've not refuted ANYTHING from monarch. i've seen almost nothing at all. you've spent your entire time focusing on everyone BUT monarch. for the love of god, SHOW something from him so i CAN refute it.



you. cannot. be. serious. dismissed because in the actual arc in question, zeus=/>zuras. no expression you pulling from material that has nothing to do with the arc in question serves only to highlight how dramatically the celestials WERE reduced later on.



why would i when monarch is replacing odin in the exact same scenario? their showings varied after secret wars 2. no secret. i still wouldn't say monarch beats them even using those showings, but i'll not be arguing that. or i will. admit monarch has no chance in this scenario and maybe i'll pursue it.



no. for what, the 5th time, i ask to see a scan of monarch doing...anything that would suggest he could even make a celestial take notice of him, let alone harm him.



laughing out loud

at this point i'd be happy to see you show anything from him. you've actually got me half convinced that odin would beat him by this point given the lack of obvious showings from him....

if yur gonna keep trolling and pretending that the OP intended something different then no point going forward. we both know you have nothing in this scenario, so no point anyway i guess. do what you need to do but unless i see something specific to change my mind about this thread and the stips that are implied, i'll make this my final post fer realz this time.

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
ohhhh i see. yur moving goalposts so you can include all showings. funny, where exactly, aside from that thor 300, was the entire 4th host shown? and better yet, where did odin face them?

laughing out loud


Now, I'm moving the goalposts? They were shown in X-Factor 48-50 and Fantastic Four 400.

Where does anyone say they are restricted to their appearance in Thor 300?



This is simply baffling. So just because Monarch replaces Odin against fourth host, all of their showings after Thor 300 somehow became invalid?

What kind of logic is that?



This is your entire argument here. Who needs debating when you can simply use same words again and dismiss everything and pretend you're on some moral high ground.



I've said only what the comic showed me for both Monarch and Odin.

What's funny is that you want Celestials restricted to Thor 300 but use Odin's showings across his career. Hence getting pissed when I said skyfathers were planetary and so was Destroyer when that's exactly what the comic showed.

Why are you getting so pissy about it anyway? Calm down.




First of all Destroyer only had a minute power from Zeus and Vishnu, not all of Earth's skyfathers.

You're still trying to dodge the question. Why would I try to convince anyone? It's between you and me. Just let me know what level of power Destroyer was at and we will go from there.



laughing out loud

"Monarch destroying the universe does not matters because he died".

FYI Cap didn't die. He was koed and Depowered but he wasn't dead.



What the **** are you talking about now? Who said Thor 300 is the only appearance that matters for Celestials?

This is just getting tiresome now.

He is replacing them in that scenario but they aren't restricted to that showing only. It's like saying someone replacing Superman against HP Doomsday and saying Doomsday wars or OWAW doesn't counts for Doomsday's feats because it's after that story.


What you are trying to do is utterly asinine. Just because their showings varies doesn't mean you get to discard them.



laughing out loud

So what does it takes to harm a Celestial IYO?



Of course you think so. Show us Odin doing anything remotely impressive from Thor 300 and let me know.

laughing out loud

This is ****ing hilarious. You tried to shove your own rule that Celestials are only restricted to their showings in Thor 300 but skyfathers are not, dismissed all showings of Celestials, dismissed all showings of Monarch and you have the gall to tell me I don't have anything?

facepalm

DarkSaint85
If I said Superman replaced WWH in the story arc 'World War Hulk'.....am I supposed to use Sentry as he appeared in that arc, or can I use Death seed?

Fair enough, he had an amp

Am I allowed to use Xavier's feats post WWH? Like putting the P5 to sleep with a word? I'd argue yes, I'm allowed to. Strange's timestop feats against WBH? Yes.

What about pre WWH?

IOW, I'd argue I'm not just limited to WWH feats for my combatants.

Unless OPintention is to recreate WWH.

abhilegend
If there is a direct confrontation between Xavier and Hulk there is no need for ABC comparisons.

Here Monarch and Celestials don't. Hence we have to look at their whole history.

DarkSaint85
Apples and oranges.

Superman is replacing Hulk. Monarch is replacing Odin. There are no confrontations between Monarch and the Celestials, nor are there confrontations between Xavier and Superman (not Hulk, as your post says).

Philosophía
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If I said Superman replaced WWH in the story arc 'World War Hulk'.....am I supposed to use Sentry as he appeared in that arc, or can I use Death seed?

Fair enough, he had an amp

Am I allowed to use Xavier's feats post WWH? Like putting the P5 to sleep with a word? I'd argue yes, I'm allowed to. Strange's timestop feats against WBH? Yes.

What about pre WWH?

IOW, I'd argue I'm not just limited to WWH feats for my combatants.

Unless OPintention is to recreate WWH.

thumb up

And if we only use Celestials from that arc...do we only use Odin from that arc? i.e. they can only throw planets from orbits with their combined power and such?

Can't have it both ways - either all showings for Celestials AND Odin count - or only the showings from that arc for BOTH of them do.

abhilegend

leonidas
Originally posted by abhilegend
Now, I'm moving the goalposts? They were shown in X-Factor 48-50 and Fantastic Four 400.

Where does anyone say they are restricted to their appearance in Thor 300?



This is simply baffling. So just because Monarch replaces Odin against fourth host, all of their showings after Thor 300 somehow became invalid?

What kind of logic is that?



This is your entire argument here. Who needs debating when you can simply use same words again and dismiss everything and pretend you're on some moral high ground.



I've said only what the comic showed me for both Monarch and Odin.

What's funny is that you want Celestials restricted to Thor 300 but use Odin's showings across his career. Hence getting pissed when I said skyfathers were planetary and so was Destroyer when that's exactly what the comic showed.

Why are you getting so pissy about it anyway? Calm down.




First of all Destroyer only had a minute power from Zeus and Vishnu, not all of Earth's skyfathers.

You're still trying to dodge the question. Why would I try to convince anyone? It's between you and me. Just let me know what level of power Destroyer was at and we will go from there.



laughing out loud

"Monarch destroying the universe does not matters because he died".

FYI Cap didn't die. He was koed and Depowered but he wasn't dead.



What the **** are you talking about now? Who said Thor 300 is the only appearance that matters for Celestials?

This is just getting tiresome now.

He is replacing them in that scenario but they aren't restricted to that showing only. It's like saying someone replacing Superman against HP Doomsday and saying Doomsday wars or OWAW doesn't counts for Doomsday's feats because it's after that story.


What you are trying to do is utterly asinine. Just because their showings varies doesn't mean you get to discard them.



laughing out loud

So what does it takes to harm a Celestial IYO?



Of course you think so. Show us Odin doing anything remotely impressive from Thor 300 and let me know.

laughing out loud

This is ****ing hilarious. You tried to shove your own rule that Celestials are only restricted to their showings in Thor 300 but skyfathers are not, dismissed all showings of Celestials, dismissed all showings of Monarch and you have the gall to tell me I don't have anything?

facepalm

*glances to see if a scan is present, sees none, promptly dismisses and does not read accepting the unwritten and unspoken concession of defeat*

thumb up

leonidas
@phil--i have no issue with that at all. all i asked was for blasts at well above planetary level from abhi. i asked like....7 times and have gotten NOTHING about monarch. at all. i'm not talking about odin--i'm talking about whether monarch can equal or exceed what the skyfathers in that book did. pretty simple. he'd need to exceed their output (and the destroyer's) by......a LOT to have even a chance to harm them. abhi has not shown a single scan (outside him dying...) to support monarch being able to unleash that type of power at will. the gymnastics he;'s been pulling to avoid admitting he has nothing to show have been pretty spectacular though. thumb up

if you have a scan to suggest he can do more damage than the amped destroyer's disintegration beam, i'd love to see them. i have no issue saying i'm wrong, but based on abhi's...."arguments" he's done monarch more harm than good. /shrug

DarkSaint85
That's a good point, actually.

What can Monarch do? His standard/most powerful blast without him becoming depowered.

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
*glances to see if a scan is present, sees none, promptly dismisses and does not read accepting the unwritten and unspoken concession of defeat*

thumb up
LMAO. You're just phoning in at this point.

Don't worry, I still like you.

-K-M-
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's a good point, actually.

What can Monarch do? His standard/most powerful blast without him becoming depowered.

Prior to him absorbing all the captain atoms from across the multiverse he unleashed a blast that instantly and casually destroyed North America. At work so can't pull up scan but think it was just North America.

leonidas
Originally posted by abhilegend
LMAO. You're just phoning in at this point.

Don't worry, I still like you.

love

and hey, i finally got my first cell phone so i actually COULD be phoning it in! eek!

but i'm not. sneer

quanchi112
Originally posted by -K-M-
Prior to him absorbing all the captain atoms from across the multiverse he unleashed a blast that instantly and casually destroyed North America. At work so can't pull up scan but think it was just North America. Far below herald level in power. Not impressed feat wise.

leonidas
Originally posted by -K-M-
Prior to him absorbing all the captain atoms from across the multiverse he unleashed a blast that instantly and casually destroyed North America. At work so can't pull up scan but think it was just North America.

cool. see, that is SOMETHING at least. nothing remotely CLOSE to enough, but, still, something. maybe he could match surfer or something.... shifty

anyway. i've been sticking to that arc and the damage done IN that arc. but if monarch can't show something WELL above planet-destroying firepower, he simply has zero chance in this. even if he does, that would indicate he might be able to harm ONE celestial. he's facing the entire host.

thinking monarch can solo the entire host is, as i said a long time ago--completely and utterly crazy. imo.

-K-M-
Well he could have done a bigger blast it was more to teach an escapee a lesson. So yeah not far fetched in the least he has planetary blasts especially after absorbing all th captain atoms

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
love

and hey, i finally got my first cell phone so i actually COULD be phoning it in! eek!

but i'm not. sneer
Yes you are.

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
cool. see, that is SOMETHING at least. nothing remotely CLOSE to enough, but, still, something. maybe he could match surfer or something.... shifty

anyway. i've been sticking to that arc and the damage done IN that arc. but if monarch can't show something WELL above planet-destroying firepower, he simply has zero chance in this. even if he does, that would indicate he might be able to harm ONE celestial. he's facing the entire host.

thinking monarch can solo the entire host is, as i said a long time ago--completely and utterly crazy. imo.
laughing out loud

He can destroy an entire universe with energy but can only destroy planets with his blasts.

Celestials get bitchslapped like the Monitors here.

http://i.imgur.com/LBI6Y2Y.png

Or here.

http://i.imgur.com/RA7RxbU.jpg

Defeats 52 Captain Atoms and multiple Supermen with no effort.

https://imgur.com/a/oBRG8

Still think Celestials have any chance?

-K-M-
Abhi can you post the North America blast? At work right now

Josh_Alexander
The Celestials stomp.

abhilegend
Originally posted by -K-M-
Abhi can you post the North America blast? At work right now
http://imgur.com/a/Q8B6K

-K-M-
Originally posted by abhilegend
http://imgur.com/a/Q8B6K

Much appreciated. But yeah I'm not sure why people are doubting he doesn't have planetary blasts? He did that casually and to teach a lesson and didn't intend to destroy the planet but pretty clear he could. That was even pre captain atom absorptions

quanchi112
Originally posted by -K-M-
Much appreciated. But yeah I'm not sure why people are doubting he doesn't have planetary blasts? He did that casually and to teach a lesson and didn't intend to destroy the planet but pretty clear he could. That was even pre captain atom absorptions Here is the thing people like Abhi use double standards and pick and choose when feats of collateral damage matter. I doubt anyone doubts monarch doesn't dwarf a herald level character capable of crushing a world with their fists aka Gladiator style but that's not the point. People are exposing his double standards. Monarch's actual collateral damage feats aren't that impressive combat wise but anyone with s brain knows he'd hand someone his ass with planetary destroying power like Gladiator alone.

It's about how these characters match up. Monarch doesn't have the power nor the means to take on this group of characters that would decimate herald level characters as well with the ability to reform from damage to boot.

leonidas
Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

He can destroy an entire universe with energy but can only destroy planets with his blasts.

Celestials get bitchslapped like the Monitors here.

http://i.imgur.com/LBI6Y2Y.png

Or here.

http://i.imgur.com/RA7RxbU.jpg

Defeats 52 Captain Atoms and multiple Supermen with no effort.

https://imgur.com/a/oBRG8

Still think Celestials have any chance?

omg...

he can destroy a universe in an uncontrolled death blast. again--who cares? he isn't killing himself, so for the 5th time it's irrelevant.

cool scene beating up a bunch of heralds. actually it is a very good feat.

the destroyer had the power of DOZENS of skyfathers. no expression

not to mention ALL of odin's power including the life force of asgard in its entirety. that is astronomically more powerful than a skyfather alone. and its most powerful beam (an unamped beam that was capable of killing odin way back when odin was comparable to galactus) was casually deflected by the weakest single celestial. monarch beat a dozen mid-high heralds. the weakest celestial utterly tanked a blast equivalent to the power of a dozen SKYFATHERS, at least.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/6955/959676-odin_zeus_vishnu_3.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/85558/1676128-669515_heavenly_conflict_5.jpg

that feat dwarfed arishem no selling zeus, odin and vishnu.

the magnitude of difference is staggering. if that is his best, he has utterly no chance to harm even ONE celestial, let alone taking a host with oaa and arishem, both of whom are far more powerful than the celestial that tanked the disintegration beam. low ball all you want. monarch has no showing that matches the power output of the destroyer, not without killing himself.

if you wanna go ahead and just assume he can output more damage than that, be my guest. lol you can't prove it though and have nothing but unsupported opinion. that destroyer would shred that group that monarch fought without effort. they're heralds--it's powered by skyfathers. not sure what you're not getting here, honestly. anyway, you will never convince me he has any chance whatsoever in this scenario, so let's quit this nonsense. probably boring the onlookers by now anyway. /shrug

leonidas
Originally posted by -K-M-
Much appreciated. But yeah I'm not sure why people are doubting he doesn't have planetary blasts? He did that casually and to teach a lesson and didn't intend to destroy the planet but pretty clear he could. That was even pre captain atom absorptions

i've little doubt he could do a planet-leveling blast. that level of blast would go unnoticed by even the weakest celestial though. he'd need damage that DWARFED planet-killing power to even threaten a SINGLE celestial. without proof of that capability, in this situation he has no chance at all. /shrug

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
omg...

he can destroy a universe in an uncontrolled death blast. again--who cares? he isn't killing himself, so for the 5th time it's irrelevant.

Again, he didn't die. Cap was alive after that if you didn't know.



And I like how Monitors are only mid heralds.

Where was that stated?

Destroyer was only given a portion of power from skyfathers. Hence why when Destroyer was defeated only Odin and Asgardians died.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/6955/959676-odin_zeus_vishnu_3.jpg



So you are willing to take Odin's showings into account but celestials are restricted to Thor 300 only?

And aren't you being a little hyperbolic in blast equal to a dozen skyfathers?




Planetary attack only if I have to remind you.



He can do far more than planetary attacks. He toyed with SMP who had destroyed an entire universe by his bare hands and even kidnapped Mxy.



You have shown time and time again the sheer lengths you want to go to dismiss anything that shows celestials in a bad light.

But don't worry, Monacrh slags them all like the pieces of shit that they are. Like a small part of phoenix did to Arishem.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Skyfathers vs Arishem

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111276539/5364809-2547730429-f2k4W.jpg

Jean Grey with a fraction of PF and emotions of a bunch of aliens vs Arishem. Their next appearance IIRC

https://s13.postimg.org/kttfb1moz/RCO027_1468939999.jpg https://s10.postimg.org/op78n01et/RCO028_1468939999.jpg https://s11.postimg.org/98hysdbe7/RCO029_1468939999.jpg

Conclusion : Skyfathers are a bunch of sissies.

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
i've little doubt he could do a planet-leveling blast. that level of blast would go unnoticed by even the weakest celestial though. he'd need damage that DWARFED planet-killing power to even threaten a SINGLE celestial. without proof of that capability, in this situation he has no chance at all. /shrug
Originally posted by abhilegend
Skyfathers vs Arishem

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111276539/5364809-2547730429-f2k4W.jpg

Jean Grey with a fraction of PF and emotions of a bunch of aliens vs Arishem. Their next appearance IIRC

https://s13.postimg.org/kttfb1moz/RCO027_1468939999.jpg https://s10.postimg.org/op78n01et/RCO028_1468939999.jpg https://s11.postimg.org/98hysdbe7/RCO029_1468939999.jpg

Conclusion : Skyfathers are a bunch of sissies.
Arishem totally no sold that attack.

thumb up

leonidas
abhi, you are astounding. laughing out loud STILL not a single scan of monarch doing...anything remotely CLOSE to the damage it would take to hurt the weakest celestial.

so we saw his biggest blasts i take it? beating some heralds, blocking a monitor blast and watching another...teleport away, and taking out a continent?

laughing out loud

like i said, the only thing you've done is convince me, and i'm certain many others, that monarch has been HUGELY overrated for a long time on the forum. i mean, geezus... no wonder in all the odin vs monarch threads it's always a close call on the winner with most readers saying odin comes out on top. i mean even YOU have said ga prime was only borderline skyfather. and monarch couldn't even beat HIM. one celestial blast would shred his armor. the ONLY question in my mind is could they port away in time or bfr him somewhere. regardless, he wouldn't last more than a few seconds and would be able to do nothing at all to them.

if your goal was to make monarch look good in this thread, congrats on doing the exact opposite of that. laughing out loud

nice attempt to low ball arishem though by pretending the goalposts have moved. again. thumb up

carry on with a different playmate my friend.

leonidas
incidentally, final point: the whole "he can destroy a universe so he must be able to kill celestialzzz!!11!" is utter nonsense, btw.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111212973/4995564-7041074514-11107.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111125382/3726807-8653043606-capta.jpg

regular old cap atom had the power inside him to both create and destroy a universe. i guess that makes him universal level too, and he can solo the entire host as well, amiright? laughing out loud

quanchi112
laughing out loud

leonidas
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds?mbid=social_facebook

shifty

forgot to post this earlier--if an alt green lantern can pierce his armor:

https://imgur.com/fCMOWS4

imagine what a celestial or someone with REAL power could do to him.... ok, that's MORE than enough. been fun abhi.

-K-M-
All it did was open his face plate open which was bad for everyone around there. Also pre atom's absorption amp too

https://media3.giphy.com/media/LbfT5qdS9m1zy/giphy.gif

cdtm
Originally posted by -K-M-
All it did was open his face plate open which was bad for everyone around there. Also pre atom's absorption amp too

https://media3.giphy.com/media/LbfT5qdS9m1zy/giphy.gif

I liked the goddamned green lantern, and Bruce's heroic sacrifice doing nothing at all made me sad. sad

abhilegend
Originally posted by leonidas
abhi, you are astounding. laughing out loud STILL not a single scan of monarch doing...anything remotely CLOSE to the damage it would take to hurt the weakest celestial.

so we saw his biggest blasts i take it? beating some heralds, blocking a monitor blast and watching another...teleport away, and taking out a continent?

laughing out loud

like i said, the only thing you've done is convince me, and i'm certain many others, that monarch has been HUGELY overrated for a long time on the forum. i mean, geezus... no wonder in all the odin vs monarch threads it's always a close call on the winner with most readers saying odin comes out on top. i mean even YOU have said ga prime was only borderline skyfather. and monarch couldn't even beat HIM. one celestial blast would shred his armor. the ONLY question in my mind is could they port away in time or bfr him somewhere. regardless, he wouldn't last more than a few seconds and would be able to do nothing at all to them.

if your goal was to make monarch look good in this thread, congrats on doing the exact opposite of that. laughing out loud

nice attempt to low ball arishem though by pretending the goalposts have moved. again. thumb up

carry on with a different playmate my friend.
laughing out loud

Still on the same "nothing can hurt the celestials" train, huh?

Only marvel fanboys think Odin is anywhere near Monarch level. Originally posted by leonidas
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds?mbid=social_facebook

shifty

forgot to post this earlier--if an alt green lantern can pierce his armor:

https://imgur.com/fCMOWS4

imagine what a celestial or someone with REAL power could do to him.... ok, that's MORE than enough. been fun abhi.
I'm curious, have you actually read the comics or are just going on respect threads for both Monarch and Celestials? Originally posted by leonidas
incidentally, final point: the whole "he can destroy a universe so he must be able to kill celestialzzz!!11!" is utter nonsense, btw.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111212973/4995564-7041074514-11107.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111125382/3726807-8653043606-capta.jpg

regular old cap atom had the power inside him to both create and destroy a universe. i guess that makes him universal level too, and he can solo the entire host as well, amiright? laughing out loud
That's only inside quantum field. In actual world he was defeated by Shadowstorm, a Firestorm clone.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xIPrKFCrsG4/Va7uE60ZXKI/AAAAAAANgCU/OcZbBONp0mE/s1600/p_54_07.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DPSLPZD-Gx4/Va7uGaMmOpI/AAAAAAANgCc/dhQKN_hhplo/s1600/p_54_08.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fcXQs-DCj-Y/Va7uH9Ki5UI/AAAAAAANgCk/LZvt9KDELKM/s1600/p_54_09.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bN5AU5V9C8g/Va7uLjFPnSI/AAAAAAANgC0/c4B69FmvEtU/s1600/p_54_11.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZqUVVy5qt5U/Va7uNgGwlOI/AAAAAAANgC8/VOYdCAor6RU/s1600/p_54_12.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kWqeheTd-d8/Va7uPPhUd5I/AAAAAAANgDE/2FzBVboJ_zE/s1600/p_54_13.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z0mc7VdKypw/Va7uQusxMXI/AAAAAAANgDM/Q6QCDc7pPqk/s1600/p_54_14.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-E-fzBhsAehI/Va7uSw0OZfI/AAAAAAANgDU/1wsf3okiBQQ/s1600/p_54_15.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TwkrmLbMbzE/Va7uUvqNQQI/AAAAAAANgDc/tWS9M_44Kic/s1600/p_54_16.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TDos_jjJXyA/Va7uWVxGv8I/AAAAAAANgDk/lcWLz80Y01o/s1600/p_54_17.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-n0OYSWSVi0o/Va7uXmmGtkI/AAAAAAANgDs/YxpsVLJFiXY/s1600/p_54_18.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UnUNq5Kws6k/Va7uZcGkLtI/AAAAAAANgD0/IGLfivlmR_g/s1600/p_54_19.jpg

quanchi112
Cringe.

abhilegend
Time to bump this classic.

thumb up

MrMind
ahhhh this was prime abhi, you are no where near this level now evil face evil face

abhilegend
I've mellowed down sad

Diesldude

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.