Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Sports Illustrated has Merit

It not even week 3

Yea it's a shame

Yeah so the article is very vague of why the ratings are down. Mentioned hurricane Irma but overall I doubt that. Article didn't even mention anyone kneeling

I don't know if it has to do with kneeling. But it's not the first time I been hearing about this.

Ok so point being?

I think people are not happy with the new rules. I know I am

Badabing is going to shut this down. Unless you can make it seem like the Steelers somehow are the only team uneffected from the poor ratings.

So we can't talk about football now?

Originally posted by Sable
So we can't talk about football now?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f11/t646207.html

Two complelty different topics

Originally posted by Sable
Two complelty different topics

I honestly think it's a witch hunt against you

Are you a football fan, Sable? Articles like these pop up every year when there's a downturn, whether it's for playoff games, regular season, or just a weird 1-2 week stretch. Even if it's not a trend and is just a temporary aberration, journalists need to fill column space, so it's a cliche topic that gets trotted out. It can remain (ostensibly) fresh because there's always 1-2 new controversies they can point to each year as a possible reason why.

The NFL's fan "floor" is higher than any other (US) sport, except maybe college football. As such, any change(s) in viewership need to be looked at over a long period of time, and in terms of market share of televisions and % of viewers in various areas. A two-week period is always going to be too anecdotal to make any kind of assertion.

Long-term I do think the NFL has a bit of a problem. And no, not from anything political. But for example, my brother was a football lifer. Played into college for a I-AA school. Was a diehard fan. But it also tore up his knee something fierce. Then the public learned about the NFL covering up CTE evidence. And about their negligence on benefits for retired players. And their indifference toward domestic abuse. And PEDs. And how those things trickle down to college and high school levels in ways that can damage kids permanently, but without the financial cushion the NFL provides. And their overall greed and callousness toward player safety and anything but money. Then my brother had a son...

The diehard fans aren't leaving. But my brother and his wife steered their son away from football. He doesn't even watch. He's into other sports. And because of that, so is my brother. And because I'll watch my nephew in his games and like chatting with family, I care less about football than I used to.

This is reflected on a macro level where youth football involvement is down nationally. So the floor will always be there. It's too entrenched as our favorite sport. But long-term I do expect some declines as the next couple generations hit adulthood.

Yes I love football. Won my fantasy league last year, and prolly willl this year. You do know me posting what other people wrote from sports illustrated doesn't necessarily mean I don't like football, instead of viewing it in the negative, try flipping it around and seeing it the other way? Can you post where I said football was going anywhere closing down which you keep writing about?

The NFL isn't a perfect organization and they can always learn from mistakes, mishaps, or ways to draw people back in or more people in that were not fans before, did you know there is a ton of people in America who simply don't like the sport? Bringing them in should be goal .

I always love how some people say the NFL is racist.

Over 70% of players are black, but shh, racism.

People wanna protest do it on your own time.

Originally posted by Surtur
I always love how some people say the NFL is racist.

Over 70% of players are black, but shh, racism.

People wanna protest do it on your own time.

When they say it, they're looking at ownership. I don't necessarily agree with that assessment, but that's where the actual power (and money) behind the league is.

Originally posted by Sable
Yes I love football. Won my fantasy league last year, and prolly willl this year. You do know me posting what other people wrote from sports illustrated doesn't necessarily mean I don't like football, instead of viewing it in the negative, try flipping it around and seeing it the other way? Can you post where I said football was going anywhere closing down which you keep writing about?

The NFL isn't a perfect organization and they can always learn from mistakes, mishaps, or ways to draw people back in or more people in that were not fans before, did you know there is a ton of people in America who simply don't like the sport? Bringing them in should be goal .

Meh, I gave my take, and it was relevant to your link. Between this and the "lol SF attendance down bc of Kaepernick" thread, it did seem like your views might have been somewhat slanted. But cool, gl in fantasy.

The owners own teams that have a majority of black players. For folks to shout racism is odd.

Especially when they whined that this chump didn't get hired in Miami, despite the fact the dude rocks Fidel Castro t-shirts. It's asinine.

Also notice Colin K wasn't the only black dude to take a knee. He is just the only one to sever his contract that was worth I think 14 million. People can certainly say it is wrong to penalize the guy for kneeling, but it's not due to racism that people do not like what he is doing.

Then now some in the media claim Trump talking about these issues with players kneeling has "dark racial undertones".

I stopped watching the news on the weeken. Oh how life got so much better.

Originally posted by Sable
I stopped watching the news on the weeken. Oh how life got so much better.

Lol well in case you missed it, we've had even Stevie Wonder now taking a knee. People in the MLB taking knee's, etc.

Why? Cuz Trump.

Pittsburgh Steelers decided to not even show up for the national anthem. What a disgrace, only one person from the team showed up, a veteran.

https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2017/9/24/16357738/alejandro-villanueva-u-s-army-veteran-lone-steeler-on-field-national-anthem

Originally posted by Sable
Pittsburgh Steelers decided to not even show up for the national anthem. What a disgrace, only one person from the team showed up, a veteran.

https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2017/9/24/16357738/alejandro-villanueva-u-s-army-veteran-lone-steeler-on-field-national-anthem

Actually that might be what I heard about, I had heard it on the radio that some team had done that, but I tuned in after they had already mentioned the team so I didn't know which one. But the rationale was that they did it because they didn't want to give anyone any chance to be offended. In other words didn't want to give the players the choice of kneeling or not.

What is there even to kneel over? There are more deaths at the hands of police for the black community because they commit more violent crime.

They didn't even kneel, they didn't even show up. I guess these players are oppressed. I didn't see the Patriots or the Cowboys playing politics.

Even funnier, the Steelers could lose their first game to the Bears now.

The ravens are down 44 as well. Obama 44 karma.

Bunch of multi-millionaire spoiled brats showing flat out disrespect.

Not surprised to be honest. These are guys who won the genetic/athletic lottery and have been treated like gods their entire lives, so they think they really are.

https://i.imgur.com/AngPeuS.jpg

Epic failure.

Steelers undefeated lost today on the day they decided to not show up for the national anthem

Originally posted by Sable
Steelers undefeated lost today on the day they decided to not show up for the national anthem I'm sure they are going to blame Trump for this lost somehow.

The only way to protest the teams pulling this crap is to stop giving the NFL Money. And that seems to slowly be happening. But sadly people will always put something like Sports above things like Patriotism in this Modern World.

I just don't see how you can say it has nothing to do with the flag when you choose the time it is displayed to protest. lol You can literally pick any other time to protest your perception of racism, and that is the time you choose. There are post game interviews, mid week interviews. Hell, you can bring it up on any guest appearance. They have thousands, if not millions, of social media followers so why pick that time?

I love how they are too dumb to not be manipulated. Trump made comments and now more people than ever are kneeling and protesting. Except...now it's just an anti-Trump thing lol. The original purpose has been lost. It's not about police brutality, just about giving Trump the middle finger.

Hilarious. Best part is they are too thick in the head to see it.

But at least one guy from the Steelers didn't act like a pussy. He stood for it. Why? Cuz he actually served.

This is ridiculous

Originally posted by Sable
This is ridiculous

There were some very dark racial undertones in what you just posted.

Sportscasters are saying the President needs to keep politics out of football, but they can bring politics into football and thats ok.

I didn't know standing for the national anthem was bringing politics into football. I do know kneeling for fake causes is.

Do you think they will ever take a knee over all the black on black crime?

The knee started over the hands up don't shoot thing I believe, which turned out to be a false narrative. It morphed into taking a knee. People still believe Michael Brown had his hands up, he didn't.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SatcvZyIwk4/VMrIO-U8RKI/AAAAAAAAACY/4Zyl5TQ7IV4/s1600/st-louis-rams-550x426.jpg

500 murders so far this year in Chicago.

How long has that city and state been under democrats control?

For many decades. The black community here is thriving. Well, the funeral homes in these communities are thriving anyways.

Here's a reasonable article that's the what's, why's, etc. of the protests. It's lighter on spin than most articles on the topic, though not devoid of it. But I do think it disambiguates some misconceptions and lays out various common criticisms in recent events:
https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-protests-national-anthem-explained-191623412.html

I tend to always side on supporting peaceful protest, regardless of my level of agreement for/against the cause. You can get pretty far into the weeds on the issues themselves without clear, obvious answers. But the right to protest peacefully should always be respected.

Support for the players' protests is fairly low right now. But then, historical protests that are now viewed favorably were similarly unfavorable at the time in public opinion, such as the 1993 gay rights marches that many claim started that modern movement, as well as surprisingly low approval for revered figures like MLK during the civil rights movement, whose reputation in the public sphere has grown with age.

My other big issue is an unwillingness to listen Everyone's talking. But if there are protests, right or wrong, there are intelligent people behind them. I'm quite removed from racial discrimination in my life. So mostly, I just listen to those who aren't.

Originally posted by Digi
Here's a reasonable article that's the what's, why's, etc. of the protests. It's lighter on spin than most articles on the topic, though not devoid of it. But I do think it disambiguates some misconceptions and lays out various common criticisms in recent events:
https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-protests-national-anthem-explained-191623412.html

I tend to always side on supporting peaceful protest, regardless of my level of agreement for/against the cause. You can get pretty far into the weeds on the issues themselves without clear, obvious answers. But the right to protest peacefully should always be respected.

Support for the players' protests is fairly low right now. But then, historical protests that are now viewed favorably were similarly unfavorable at the time in public opinion, such as the 1993 gay rights marches that many claim started that modern movement, as well as surprisingly low approval for revered figures like MLK during the civil rights movement, whose reputation in the public sphere has grown with age.

My other big issue is an unwillingness to listen Everyone's talking. But if there are protests, right or wrong, there are intelligent people behind them. I'm quite removed from racial discrimination in my life. So mostly, I just listen to those who aren't.

Why should we be taking morality lessons from the NFL though? I like sport but its filled with nothing but murders, wife beaters, drug abusers, rapists and criminals. Its also Ironic the media now takes their side, especially the liberal media, when they have been against the sport for a long time, consider it stupid, and could care less if it existed.


I don't turn the TV to get lessons from millionaire SJW warriors on the field who act like they are some specimin of justice.

Ratings are dropping

http://deadline.com/2017/09/redskins-sunday-night-football-ratings-nfl-protests-star-trek-discovery-donald-trump-nbc-1202176141/

Originally posted by Sable
Why should we be taking morality lessons from the NFL though? I like sport but its filled with nothing but murders, wife beaters, drug abusers, rapists and criminals. Its also Ironic the media now takes their side, especially the liberal media, when they have been against the sport for a long time, consider it stupid, and could care less if it existed.

Nobody's taking morality lessons. I'm listening. You can think whatever you want. But shouting down those you disagree with is counter-productive. Civil discussion /= agreement.

There are criminals in the NFL, yes. The indifference to that is one of the reasons I don't follow the NFL as much. But those are actual crimes. Peaceful protest is not, in fact it's constitutionally protected. I prefer to save my vitriol for actual crimes, and the individuals who commit them, and don't lump every action nor every person into the same bucket. There are a bunch of reasons I dislike the NFL. It's not an easily defensible league in some respects, moral, legal or otherwise. But this hasn't been one of them.

And yes, there's some irony in coverage. NFL fans trend a bit conservative, though obviously there are enough of them to defy easy categorization. But it's the players - and now owners - taking the lead here, not the media.

But Im not shouting down anyone.

Steelers literally have a QB has been accused multiple times of sexual assault, and the constitution and this country gives him the right to still be on that field. He chose to hide in shame on Sunday from the anthem which represents this country that has given him his freedom from already being in jail.

Total irony, glad we agree. The media has been lambasting NFL fans, the game as a whole for a long time. Now they turn to them to be the shining example of social justice.

I assure you this will come back to bite them in the ass. Without a doubt a few of these players kneeling, not showing up, or raising a fist will likely be convicted of one or many of the crimes I listed above. Will the media correlate that and call them hypocrites? No chance in hell.

Originally posted by Sable
But Im not shouting down anyone.

Steelers literally have a QB has been accused multiple times of sexual assault, and the constitution and this country gives him the right to still be on that field. He chose to hide in shame on Sunday from the anthem which represents this country that has given him his freedom from already being in jail.

Total irony, glad we agree. The media has been lambasting NFL fans, the game as a whole for a long time. Now they turn to them to be the shining example of social justice.

I assure you this will come back to bite them in the ass. Without a doubt a few of these players kneeling, not showing up, or raising a fist will likely be convicted of one or many of the crimes I listed above. Will the media correlate that and call them hypocrites? No chance in hell.

The NFL isn't a shining example of anything. They're correctly supporting peaceful protests. They're guilty of numerous other injustices that aren't related to that fact. So a reliably insightful media source shouldn't be glowing all the time, nor critical all the time.

Just like decrying Roethlisberger's situation, which I don't disagree with (though anger might be better directed toward our justice system there, not the NFL specifically), but that isn't an indictment of the protests in general. I'm also not sure what media you're watching, but the media in general destroys those convicted of crimes. I think there's less of a double standard than you believe.

And again, yes, the anthem represents multiple freedoms. Including the right of peaceful protest for perceived injustices. Players and coaches have gone out of their way to say what this isn't about - it's not about the military, it's not about disrespecting the flag, etc. etc. But to get past that to hear their points, we have to listen.

Racial injustice is real, Trump calling for the jobs of people kneeling (an insanely dangerous precedent imo) is real. Maybe this will be ineffectual as a protest, and maybe it's not the best way to bring it to light (though it's doing great in that respect so far), and maybe there are other issues with the delivery. But it's speaking to real fears of Americans.

The problem with the NFL doing this is they are the wrong messenger. Those people on that field live in Ivory Towers, their children all go to the best schools, they have protection, they have money. Their league is plagued with crime and drugs and domestic abuse. So yes, they are the wrong messengers.

The coaches can say what they want, they are paid to win, and lose if they don't. I don't believe for a second these people have anything else on their minds besides winning. They practice 2-3 times a day, all they focus on is winning next week.

Standing for racial injustice instead of sitting on kneeling or not showing up speaks volumes, standing for something means something, not showing up means nothing.

Racial injustice is real, but like I said, these players are not apart of it, and the wrong messenger.

Originally posted by Sable
The problem with the NFL doing this is they are the wrong messenger. Those people on that field live in Ivory Towers, their children all go to the best schools, they have protection, they have money. Their league is plagued with crime and drugs and domestic abuse. So yes, they are the wrong messengers.

Perhaps, but that doesn't forfeit their right to be messengers. They have the public spotlight, after all. Protests aren't meant to be quiet, they're meant to be uncomfortable, and poor kids in the country's ghettos aren't going to stir up the public discourse regardless of what they experience.

Originally posted by Sable
Standing for racial injustice instead of sitting on kneeling or not showing up speaks volumes, standing for something means something, not showing up means nothing.

You're conflating physically standing with symbolically standing here. They're absolutely standing for something.

Originally posted by Sable
Racial injustice is real, but like I said, these players are not apart of it, and the wrong messenger.

It's not a stretch to say that a TON of football players came from poverty and hardship. They're not strangers to injustice. Money doesn't invalidate one's opinion, nor the importance of the topic. But you seem entrenched in ad hominem responses to broad cultural problems.

If they are the wrong messenger then yes, absolutely. Considering how NFL fans have been treated by the media in the past, this is ultimate hypocrisy.

Standing means standing. If an NFL team decided to not show up for a game and forfeit it, that would be viewed as horrible, but if they don't show up for the anthem its patriotic. Please.

Originally posted by Sable
Ratings are dropping

http://deadline.com/2017/09/redskins-sunday-night-football-ratings-nfl-protests-star-trek-discovery-donald-trump-nbc-1202176141/

Funny thing, the one Steeler player who went out during the anthem? Who served in the military previously? Sales of his jersey increased a lot since online since what he did.

Originally posted by Digi
But if there are protests, right or wrong, there are intelligent people behind them.

You can't be talking about protests in general, right?

Liberal Media already back to trying to stir controversy in NFL between players and owners.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/sports/nfl-owners-unity-protests.html?referer=http://drudgereport.com/

Originally posted by Surtur
You can't be talking about protests in general, right?

Peaceful protest is a hallmark of nearly any functioning democracy. And historically, it's been a great way to bring awareness and spur change. So yes. Violent protest is another matter, so I should have made that distinction, though in the spirit of this specific discussion, that demarcation line should be fairly clear.

Unless you're wanting to dig into the average IQ scores of football players or something (and, at this point, including coaches, owners, etc.). But that's a different angle entirely, and not one I was getting at when I made the previous comment.

Originally posted by Digi
Peaceful protest is a hallmark of nearly any functioning democracy. And historically, it's been a great way to bring awareness and spur change. So yes. Violent protest is another matter, so I should have made that distinction, though in the spirit of this specific discussion, that demarcation line should be fairly clear.

Unless you're wanting to dig into the average IQ scores of football players or something (and, at this point, including coaches, owners, etc.). But that's a different angle entirely, and not one I was getting at when I made the previous comment.

People protested Ben Shapiro saying he was a white supremacist. Can you explain how someone is intelligent and thinks that?