Life Long Steelers Fans Burn All Their Gear

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Sable
Anti American Steelers can't even show up for the national anthem, youtube erupts in burn videos.

GSxeF68FRsk

UWnWm62My-g

yiFvl5AgWes

Cle7DoG_sxM

https://twitter.com/ArvinGibbs/status/912059054519877632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fpittsburgh.cbslocal.com%2F2017%2F09%2F25%2Fangry-steelers-fans-burn-gear-over-national-anthem%2F

Bashar Teg
we need about 15 more nfl topics please.

Surtur
^^^Triggered.

Bashar Teg
sorry that you got triggered again, surt.

Surtur
That response was a doozy.

jaden101
😂 😂 😂 😂

Surtur
And of course the coach kinda whined over the one guy who didn't puss out. The one guy who actually served. Cuz they voted and wanted 100% participation.

Sad. You can't have it both ways. If it's okay for a dude to go kneel like Colin did, it's ago to stand.

Sable
So they whined cause he was expressing his freedoms and patriotism while they are arguing they were expressing theirs by not showing up. And they still have a rapist as their quarterback.

Pathetic Hypocrites.

Surtur
So yeah most of the Steelers are huge pussies. I feel sorry for any hardcore fans of the Steelers. How sad would you feel knowing you support these chumps?

Eternal Idol
sn6jKGVxTbk

These clowns make me laugh. They get bent out of shape and destroy their own property, because of the opinions of others.

That'll show 'em, I guess...

Surtur
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
sn6jKGVxTbk

These clowns make me laugh. They get bent out of shape and destroy their own property, because of the opinions of others.

That'll show 'em, I guess...

I feel the same way when blacks burn down their cities over thugs getting killed.

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by Surtur
I feel the same way when blacks burn down their cities over thugs getting killed.

How lovely for you. I'm sure you get a kick out of the death and suffering of blacks, self-inflicted or otherwise.

Surtur
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
How lovely for you. I'm sure you get a kick out of the death and suffering of blacks, self-inflicted or otherwise.

No, I feel sadness over all this rampant violence and yet folks whine about cops. Yet in Chicago we have 500 murders so far.

There has been multiple shootings right outside my fathers work in the past year. Right outside. Some have been cops shot by thugs. Some were thugs shot by cops.

But yeah man, I'm so happy. Actually no, I'm tired of these savage little thugs being ignored while folk whine about cops.

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by Surtur
No, I feel sadness over all this rampant violence and yet folks whine about cops. Yet in Chicago we have 500 murders so far.

There has been multiple shootings right outside my fathers work in the past year. Right outside. Some have been cops shot by thugs. Some were thugs shot by cops.

But yeah man, I'm so happy. Actually no, I'm tired of these savage little thugs being ignored while folk whine about cops.

That is understandable, as I too abhor violent crime and the gang mentality...so then why not frame it as such instead of suggesting it is inherently a problem with blacks?

I don't think you're stupid, Surtur, but your stated positions do make me question your character sometimes. Was it something that sounded better in your head than when you posted it, or do you genuinely believe blacks are the issue?

Flyattractor
I think it should be pointed out that the vast majority of these NFL Players are MILLIONAIRS so by Leftist Standards....They are all Bad People....because all Millionaires are Republicans.

dGvKdeZFzS0

Digi
Originally posted by Flyattractor
I think it should be pointed out that the vast majority of these NFL Players are MILLIONAIRS so by Leftist Standards....They are all Bad People....because all Millionaires are Republicans.

Being a millionaire does not make one bad, by anyone's standards, and certainly not your caricature of the left. More normally, what is disparaged are programs that institutionalize wealth for some and make it more difficult to escape poverty. I've heard few - if any - decry wealth alone as a prerequisite for being lesser.

...

More on-topic, Villanueva has said he regrets being on the field because it showed divisiveness toward his teammates when he does nothing but support them, and Roethlisberger has said it might not have been the best way to show team solidarity, because he believes in the anthem as a positive moment at sporting events.

There are ranges of opinions here on literally every side, and people trying to figure all of this stuff out even as it happens and they're a part of it. It's refreshing to see such personal stances made public, but without the team ostracizing them for it, which is as it should be.

And no less of an old white southern dude than Jerry Jones was on the field yesterday, leading his team in kneeling. Whatever your views on this issue, it's no longer a Republican/Democrat divide, if it ever was in the first place.

Sable
Bernie Sanders sure made millionaire and billionares out to be bad. His entire camapign was "millionaires and billionares.

Digi
I should clarify, Jones led his team in a knee just prior to the anthem to protest for justice and equal rights, then they stood for the anthem to support those whose efforts make that desire possible. It was an interesting distinction, and an important one. Other players and teams have made the same point in interviews, but the way the Cowboys handled it was...more elegant than others. I liked it.

Sable
True. It still doesn't change that fact that Bernie Sanders has villified millionaire and billionares. He ran his entire campaign on it, so it's permanently engrained in people's minds now. There is an entire class and population of people that bought into his ideas, and continue to think that way.

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by Sable
True. It still doesn't change that fact that Bernie Sanders has villified millionaire and billionares. He ran his entire campaign on it, so it's permanently engrained in people's minds now. There is an entire class and population of people that bought into his ideas, and continue to think that way.

Sanders didn't denounce the wealthy simply because they were wealthy, and therefore morally bankrupt people. He attacked the systems in place that make them as wealthy as they are, while simultaneously screwing over the middle class and the poor: tax breaks, tax loopholes, tax havens, low minimum wage, lax environmental policies, lax international trade/business policies, and politicians in their pockets to ensure their votes go toward laws which benefit them.

That's quite a difference from saying rich people are bad because they have more money than anyone else.

Sable
It doesn't change he vilified them. People are sheep, if they hear him attacking millionaires and billionaires it just gives them confirmation bias.

cdtm
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Sanders didn't denounce the wealthy simply because they were wealthy, and therefore morally bankrupt people. He attacked the systems in place that make them as wealthy as they are, while simultaneously screwing over the middle class and the poor: tax breaks, tax loopholes, tax havens, low minimum wage, lax environmental policies, lax international trade/business policies, and politicians in their pockets to ensure their votes go toward laws which benefit them.

That's quite a difference from saying rich people are bad because they have more money than anyone else.

Sure. The deck is stacked rhetoric. Even successful rich people admit as much.

The problem is, it's just rhetoric. Everyone works the crowds like this, but nobody actually does anything about it.

Maybe Bernie would be different, maybe not. I kind of doubt it.

Sable
Now Pittsburghs Rooney is backtracking. He's trying to say now that by not showing up for the anthem, they were trying to stay out of politics. Hahahahahahaha

Just PATHETIC, typical behavior of an *******, make a dumb move, blame everyone else for not understanding. Baffoon

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000851975/article/rooney-issues-letter-to-fans-about-sundays-anthem

Digi
Ratings were slightly up this week, especially for MNF. As I mentioned earlier, given the base of NFL fans, ratings are going to swing, period. We shouldn't be trying to read much into them until we have seasons' worth of data.

Originally posted by Sable
Now Pittsburghs Rooney is backtracking. He's trying to say now that by not showing up for the anthem, they were trying to stay out of politics. Hahahahahahaha

Just PATHETIC, typical behavior of an *******, make a dumb move, blame everyone else for not understanding. Baffoon

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000851975/article/rooney-issues-letter-to-fans-about-sundays-anthem

That actually mirrors the interview Mike Tomlin gave on this before the game. This was legitimately the intent of the team, to stay unified without requiring everyone to choose sides. As it happens, it's been wildly misinterpreted, as you're a prime example of. As I say, listening is important.

/srug

cdtm
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000851344/article/villanueva-regrets-how-anthem-decision-played-out

Sounds like damage control, probably under a lot of pressure from Rooney/other players.

Lestov16
Originally posted by Sable
Anti American Steelers can't even show up for the national anthem, youtube erupts in burn videos.

GSxeF68FRsk

UWnWm62My-g

yiFvl5AgWes

Cle7DoG_sxM

https://twitter.com/ArvinGibbs/status/912059054519877632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fpittsburgh.cbslocal.com%2F2017%2F09%2F25%2Fangry-steelers-fans-burn-gear-over-national-anthem%2F

LOL. They are so triggered. Probably burned hundreds or thousand of dollars worth of merchandise instead of just selling it or even donating it. What a bunch of snowflake idiots

Sable
Yes 4 people burned hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of jerseys. If you watched the videos, some of the people said they were donating it.

Sable
Originally posted by Digi
Ratings were slightly up this week, especially for MNF. As I mentioned earlier, given the base of NFL fans, ratings are going to swing, period. We shouldn't be trying to read much into them until we have seasons' worth of data.



That actually mirrors the interview Mike Tomlin gave on this before the game. This was legitimately the intent of the team, to stay unified without requiring everyone to choose sides. As it happens, it's been wildly misinterpreted, as you're a prime example of. As I say, listening is important.

/srug

Nope sorry. He wanted to have it both ways. Didn't work.

Lestov16
So ignoring your illiteracy and inability to differentiate "of" and "or",why couldn't the jerseys be sold or donated?

cdtm
Originally posted by Lestov16
So ignoring your illiteracy and inability to differentiate "of" and "or",why couldn't the jerseys be sold or donated?

Because there's no closure in that. Burning memorbilia is symbolic of breaking ranks as a fan.

Sable
Originally posted by Lestov16
So ignoring your illiteracy and inability to differentiate "of" and "or",why couldn't the jerseys be sold or donated?

Read what I said

Originally posted by Sable
Yes 4 people burned hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of jerseys. If you watched the videos, some of the people said they were donating it.

Digi
Originally posted by Sable
Nope sorry. He wanted to have it both ways. Didn't work.

Tomlin? Or Rooney? Tomlin was quite clear about the intent of it, before it happened, before the need for any spin due to it being misinterpreted. I think in ignoring his words entirely, and in fact believing the opposite in spite of his words, you're projecting your biases onto others to an extreme degree.

Go watch the Tomlin interview before the game, maybe? It's clear you haven't, and you only want to accept one version of this entire story.

Robtard
Meh, it's their own personal property, let them destroy it. Like when Trumpers burned their MAGA hats smile

Robtard
Originally posted by Surtur
I feel the same way when blacks burn down their cities over thugs getting killed.


^ Lol, look at this guy display his bigotry

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by Sable
It doesn't change he vilified them. People are sheep, if they hear him attacking millionaires and billionaires it just gives them confirmation bias.
Vilify implies he slandered them using unfounded claims. That's not what he did, and backed up his statements against them with evidence. What else stopped the Waltons, the Kochs, or any other persons mentioned from suing Sanders for slander and libel? Probably that there was truth to what Sanders was saying.

Lots of people are impressionable and easily swayed without much forethought into what they support. Does their existence make you a conservative sheep, or me a progressive sheep, even if there is truth/merit in what we support?

Originally posted by cdtm
Sure. The deck is stacked rhetoric. Even successful rich people admit as much.

The problem is, it's just rhetoric. Everyone works the crowds like this, but nobody actually does anything about it.

Maybe Bernie would be different, maybe not. I kind of doubt it.

Personally, I think the fact that Sanders actively fought for improving the laws and systems in place well before and after his presidential campaign speaks for itself.

Back to the topic, these clips of ex-fans burning their memorabilia are rather pathetic. Those clothes, blankets, and hats could have gone to help others. One lady mentioned selling what could be sold and donating to charity supporting veterans, and that seemed like a better way to get your point across and by simply burning it all. One guy was burning personal gifts from his daughter and grandkids, another was ranting about football players disrespecting veterans and Jesus.

But hey, it's their shit, bought and paid for...so whatever, I guess.

Robtard
Exactly, it's personal property, let them do whatever within legal means. Granted, they're utter retards for getting bent out of shape because some people kneeled, but in the end it's their property.

Steve Zodiac
I've been listening to Stevie Wonder records all week, sometimes it takes a blind man to see things as they really are. I bet Stevie could get his best-selling record in two decades if he released now.

Sable
Originally posted by Robtard
Exactly, it's personal property, let them do whatever within legal means. Granted, they're utter retards for getting bent out of shape because some people kneeled, but in the end it's their property.

No one kneeled

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by Sable
No one kneeled

Ok, so they got bent out of shape because all but one member of the team stayed off the field until the anthem was over. Villanueva and the rest of the team have come out to say that him standing out there alone was not part of the plan they had come up with as a team.

Villanueva apologizes for unintentionally throwing the team under the bus

Robtard
Lol, triggered over everything/anything. Kneeling, hanging out in the locker room, doesn't matter.

Poor Villanueva, these same people who praised him for coming out and for his former service are going to eat him up now

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by Robtard
Lol, triggered over everything/anything. Kneeling, hanging out in the locker room, doesn't matter.

Poor Villanueva, these same people who praised him for coming out and for his former service are going to eat him up now

Probably. Maybe after they find out about him apologizing, they'll burn their brand-new Villanueva jerseys too, just as Amazon delivers them.

Sable
Originally posted by Robtard
Lol, triggered over everything/anything. Kneeling, hanging out in the locker room, doesn't matter.

Poor Villanueva, these same people who praised him for coming out and for his former service are going to eat him up now

So you don't have a problem with teams staying in the locker room now? If all the teams decided to just skip the national anthem, your fine with it?

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by Sable
So you don't have a problem with teams staying in the locker room now? If all the teams decided to just skip the national anthem, your fine with it?

Teams were never required to be on the field for the national anthem.

Flyattractor
Most Players on this Team are Leftist Fascists now due to thei Criminally High Salaries they get so I can see why they have been swayed to the side that loves to Shit on the U.S.

AntiFa has taken the Field. and It is now a Unholy Place of Hatred and Mistrust.

Because that is what the Left wants and that is to DESTROY EVERYTHING that makes the U.S what it is.

Cause that is what Fascists do.

Robtard
Originally posted by Sable
So you don't have a problem with teams staying in the locker room now? If all the teams decided to just skip the national anthem, your fine with it?


Now? Never cared, let people do what they want, this kneeling or staying in the locker room hurts no one.


Why do you care?

cdtm
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Teams were never required to be on the field for the national anthem.

Nope.

A person in the stand can stay sitting, too. They aren't required to honor the flag.

It's not required. Merely expected, and a disgrace for refusing.

cdtm
Originally posted by Robtard
Now? Never cared, let people do what they want, this kneeling or staying in the locker room hurts no one.


Why do you care?

So much for patriotism, or honoring those who fought. There's plenty of other ways to protest certain specific things about America, that don't openly insult America as a whole, and thumbs a nose at those who served, or those who lost people who served.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Robtard
Now? Never cared, let people do what they want,


Now that is a lie...

Robtard
Originally posted by cdtm
So much for patriotism, or honoring those who fought. There's plenty of other ways to protest certain specific things about America, that don't openly insult America as a whole, and thumbs a nose at those who served, or those who lost people who served.

Speaking of "patriotism", it's unpatriotic what you're doing actually:

uY8gMnxikM8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uY8gMnxikM8

"If we don't like protesting, what's next."

cdtm
Originally posted by Robtard
Speaking of "patriotism", it's unpatriotic what you're doing actually:

uY8gMnxikM8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uY8gMnxikM8

"If we don't like protesting, what's next."

Yeah, I'd imagine a guy who used his office to sell books and land an xfl co-host position would be all for just about anything. wink

Right to protest goes both ways. And I never said what they're doing should be against the law, anyways.

Some things should he sacred. Love of country is one of them. You don't like America, or respect it the same way Israli's love Israel, Indian's love India, Irish love and respect Ireland, or any number of people who love where they live and work, then hey you don't need to stay. Nobodies keeping anyone here who doesn't want to stay here..

Too many people use the term "protest" to mask a very real hate of this country, which imo is undeserved and frankly insulting..

Sable
Originally posted by Robtard
Now? Never cared, let people do what they want, this kneeling or staying in the locker room hurts no one.


Why do you care?

Rob I didn't know you were this far left. Can I ask why you even bothered to come to America if you don't even care about our time honored traditions?

Robtard
Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, I'd imagine a guy who used his office to sell books and land an xfl co-host position would be all for just about anything. wink

Right to protest goes both ways. And I never said what they're doing should be against the law, anyways.

Some things should he sacred. Love of country is one of them. You don't like America, or respect it the same way Israli's love Israel, Indian's love India, Irish love and respect Ireland, or any number of people who love where they live and work, then hey you don't need to stay. Nobodies keeping anyone here who doesn't want to stay here..

Too many people use the term "protest" to mask a very real hate of this country, which imo is undeserved and frankly insulting..

So the default "get out of my country,", how lovely. Anyhow.

Loving America doesn't mean you have to love every single aspect, especially something viewed as an injustice. Where Civil Rights activists in the 60's "unpatriotic"? According to you, yes.

Not standing for the anthem doesn't equate to hatred of America. You people are rediculous

Sable
Where did I say "get out of my country"

Ah you edited an added the quote.

Robtard
Originally posted by Sable
Rob I didn't know you were this far left. Can I ask why you even bothered to come to America if you don't even care about our time honored traditions?

laughing out loud just stop

Sable
laughing out loud

Robtard
The rare times I go to a game, I stand for the anthem. But I'm not shitting on people who don't

Sable
Well that's good to hear, whos games do you go to?

Digi
Originally posted by Sable
Where did I say "get out of my country"

You didn't. cdtm did. That's why Rob was responding to cdtm with that comment.

thumb up

Sable
Originally posted by Digi
You didn't. cdtm did. That's why Rob was responding to cdtm with that comment.

thumb up

Gee thanks captain obvious. Another digijob for sure.

Robtard
Originally posted by Sable
Well that's good to hear, whos games do you go to?

SF Giants. But very rarely, usually as part of a party as I don't care much for MLB or the NFL for that matter

Sable
I been to a Giants game before in SF.

Digi
Originally posted by Sable
Gee thanks captain obvious. Another digijob for sure.

Lol, you asked. Ask a dumb question, get a dumb answer and all that...

/shrug

Sable
Actually no, he didn't include the quote in his initial post, hence why he edited. It's you who made a dumb post trying to sharpshoot a mistake you made but thinking it was someone else.

cdtm
Originally posted by Digi
You didn't. cdtm did. That's why Rob was responding to cdtm with that comment.

thumb up

And I didn't say "Get out", either. I said if you don't like it here, what's keeping you?

Snubbing/flag burning is a very specific kind of protest. Rationalize it any way you want, but the fact is there's an awful lot of veterans and other people who find flag burning/snubbing the anthem highly offensive. Protestors choose this method of protest, knowing it will offend certain people. So why do it?

It's also a fact patrotism and "Eh, I just work here" sentiments cross idealogy lines. Which is just ridiculous, imo.

You don't see this thing in, say, Israel. Israeli's disagree on a lot, but they're united in one thing: Reverence for Israel, as an entity.

Not so true for the United States... I see a LOT of hate for this country, and equating "patrotism" with racists and rednecks is proof of this.

And the thing that makes me angry, is many, many pundits, progressives, tech gurus, celebrities and such have gotten very, very rich from this country. Very rich. They live like kings and queens. Yet these same people will call this the most racist country on Earth, or say "God damn America", or call themselves "citizens of the world."

You know why I think this is? Because unlike Israel, we're not under rocket attacks every day. We're not in a goddamn warzone, and we don't have a need to come together. We're like ancient Rome in the decline.. People living in relative safety, squabbling over the spoils of this nation.

That's not love. That's parasitism.. Tearing ourselves apart because everyone wants it all, right now, and **** everybody else.

Digi
Originally posted by Sable
Actually no, he didn't include the quote in his initial post, hence why he edited. It's you who made a dumb post trying to sharpshoot a mistake you made but thinking it was someone else.

Ah, so he edited the cdtm quote in? Fair enough. By the time I saw it, it was already there, and your question remained in response.

Honest mistake; thanks for setting me straight.

Digi
Originally posted by cdtm
And I didn't say "Get out", either. I said if you don't like it here, what's keeping you?

Snubbing/flag burning is a very specific kind of protest. Rationalize it any way you want, but the fact is there's an awful lot of veterans and other people who find flag burning/snubbing the anthem highly offensive. Protestors choose this method of protest, knowing it will offend certain people. So why do it?

It's also a fact patrotism and "Eh, I just work here" sentiments cross idealogy lines. Which is just ridiculous, imo.

You don't see this thing in, say, Israel. Israeli's disagree on a lot, but they're united in one thing: Reverence for Israel, as an entity.

Not so true for the United States... I see a LOT of hate for this country, and equating "patrotism" with racists and rednecks is proof of this.

And the thing that makes me angry, is many, many pundits, progressives, tech gurus, celebrities and such have gotten very, very rich from this country. Very rich. They live like kings and queens. Yet these same people will call this the most racist country on Earth, or say "God damn America", or call themselves "citizens of the world."

You know why I think this is? Because unlike Israel, we're not under rocket attacks every day. We're not in a goddamn warzone, and we don't have a need to come together. We're like ancient Rome in the decline.. People living in relative safety, squabbling over the spoils of this nation.

That's not love. That's parasitism.. Tearing ourselves apart because everyone wants it all, right now, and **** everybody else.

Some interesting points here.

"Get out" might not have been literally stated, but "what's keeping you" is a bit of a flippant question that implies much the same sentiment. You must see the similarity, no?

I don't think love of country is a good thing in and of itself. We may disagree on a fundamental level there. But I also separate "America" into its component parts, so that I can love or hate various aspects based upon my personal values. So like, love of those serving in the armed forces while hating most militaristic foreign policy, which we're guilty of a lot. Love of freedom of speech while detesting the content of some speech. Etc. etc.

So I don't think people are equating patriotism with racism and hate. I think they're rebelling against those who use patriotism as an excuse for racism and hate. Others see enough negative, and begin to wonder if patriotism for a country with more bad than good is, in fact, a good thing. You're right, though, we have it great for the most part (ad I personally think there's a lot more good than bad here).

As for choice of protest, most NFL protesters have gone out of their way to say it ISN'T protesting armed forces, or America as a whole. But they have to choose sometime to protest if they feel so moved, right? So when would you have them do it? If there's a better time, I'm personally all ears. But for a protest to invoke anything meaningful, is has to be a little uncomfortable, and it has to have a lot of eyeballs on it.

Otherwise, you're saying it's offensive, but seem to be ignoring that the reasons they're doing it have nothing to do with why you're offended. I think we should take them at their word that, for example, they greatly respect our armed forces. And they do. So why say you're disrespecting them, when this is clearly about something else? And why monopolize what the anthem or flag means when, to some, it might mean they have the right to protest in defense of the rights the flag stands for?

The Cowboys nailed it, imo. Right message on both fronts.

Eternal Idol

Sable
Originally posted by Digi


I don't think love of country is a good thing in and of itself. We may disagree on a fundamental level there.

The Cowboys nailed it, imo. Right message on both fronts.

Two things, your first statement is why many here and mainly myself fundamentally disagree with you, and will never agree with you on much of anything. Which is why I try to have as little interaction with you as possible as well, because it pains me to do so.

But you are right on the thing, the cowboys did nail it.

Surtur
So the guy who initially went and stood(the only guy, the guy who was an army ranger) now apologized and said he regrets what he did. Well, all my respect for the man is gone. What a pussy lol. Is this the country we live in now? An army ranger is embarrassed over not being a pussy and actually standing for the anthem? Are these feelings genuine or did his team just whine at him so much? Doesn't matter either way, he's a chump now. He spit in the face of all the people who have served even more than those kneeling have. Also what a way to shit all over the folk who went out and bought his jersey over his actions.

As for those saying at least this kneeling gets attention, lol no. Not the attention they wanted, this is why it's funny they got trolled by Trump and Trump is enjoying the fiasco, he flat out said this.

Think about it, this was about police brutality. Even when Colin K was wearing his little pig socks(indeed, all he cares about is police brutality which is why he wore those socks), but even then when there was controversy was the conversation about police brutality? Lol nope. It was about 1st amendment rights and disrespecting the flag.

Now, are the protests about police brutality? Are we having serious discussions about it more often? Nope lol, they are just to whine at Trump. That is hilarious to me. Anyways, 500 murders in Chicago and counting. I await all the knee's that will be taken over this.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Silent Master
The reason they're kneeling is because it let's them virtue signal, without costing them any of their own time or money.

Surtur
And the hilarious thing is...I read they break the rules lol. Like, you have to be on the field or in a tunnel or some shit, within 10 minutes of kick off time. Due to protesting not every team has done that, but no fines or discipline have been done to any teams.

So...what other rules is it okay to break for the players? If every member of a team on the field, in solidarity, gets an offsides penalty, does it get removed?

cdtm
This kind of thing comes pretty close to "triggering" me.

Lets unpack this a bit:


The way I see it, the arguments for kneeling encompass a few arguments:


1. Individualism. Let people do what they want, when they want. Who cares if you stand, kneel, sit, whatever.

I can respect this. I don't agree with it, but I can respect it.


The other reason commonly given is:

2. Peaceful protest.


Ok, again, not something I agree with. I think they've done a terrible job of getting the message out why, exactly, they're protesting. To spread awareness? To end specific police practices? Because slavery happened? I dunno, and no one else seems to know.

But I can respect the right to protest.


Here's the triggering things in this article:


1. It makes mention of "doing damage". Why? If this is about individualism, why would player unity even be an issue? Why would a former army ranger disagreeing with his team be newsworthy? Why would a "mistake" be something to own up for?

2. They bring up "Triggering liberals", and talk about "Trump". So, this "isn't" only about protest or individualism, but about idealogy? Liberals vs Trumpers?



Look, I'll play along with the partisan sniping day and night on a private forum, but the fact is I'm not a conservative, and most of my feelings on issues have nothing to do with taking sides. If a conservative does/says something I disagree with, I'll attack them for it.

In fact, I try very much to avoid giving much weight to "sides" when I can avoid it. Because, imo ETHICS are more important then identity politics. So when someone tells me they support a right to protest, I take them at their word that all they really care about is a right to protest.


But when an article starts apologizing because of what Liberals and Conservatives think about the actions of a single individual on the Steelers team, and when when they feel the need to make excuses because of the "damage" it can do, I can't pretend there isn't a lot of ideological baggage sewn up in this thing, with people basing their arguments off of which side they support.

Which is very, very troubling to me. It boils thesr debates down to rhetoric and opportunism disguised as sincerity, and makes me feel like a chump for taking someone at their word that they support an issue for the reasons they say they do every time they say "LOL Trumpers".



I'll let you in on another secret: I except far more from liberals then I do from conservatives.

This is because conservatives claim, outright, that they're for self interest. They want a free society where they and their loved ones can thrive. They don't care about you and yours (Unless they do, but don't EVER force them.)

Liberals, otoh, send a lot of messages about caring for people other then family, friends, personal gain ect.. They're the caring ones. The ones with empathy. The ones who believe in equality, truth, transparency... The ones who don't believe in exploitation, lying, getting rich at everyones expense ect ect ect..

Now, plenty of liberals also admit they aren't perfect, and justify/rationalize the lowest behaviors they do. But the point is, they attack conservatives non stop as the bad guy. And when you attack someone for behaving wrongly, it implies you want to act rightly.

Because if it didn't, what are you even attacking them for? Attacking someone else for being an ******* when you have every intention of acting like an ******* is like two siblings going after each other because one stole all the cookies before the other got the chance..

Surtur
I just truly wonder what this country is coming to. The army ranger stood proud during the anthem, the rest of the team pussed out. The coach whined over it kinda.

Now he says he regrets it, says it embarrasses him that he stood for the national anthem. I have more respect for Colin Kaepernick now than I do for that guy. What a disgrace.

I have seen stories though of various VFW halls saying they will not show anymore NFL games.

Digi
Originally posted by Sable
Two things, your first statement is why many here and mainly myself fundamentally disagree with you, and will never agree with you on much of anything. Which is why I try to have as little interaction with you as possible as well, because it pains me to do so.

But you are right on the thing, the cowboys did nail it.

That saddens me. Interaction with those we disagree with is one of the ways we can grow.

I believe that loving the positive values a country represents is a noble practice. So I do have a lot of love for America. Or, more particularly, for freedom in all its forms, insofar as those freedoms don't harm others. My views on economics and social issues tend to advocate for more freedom than anyone I know on either side of the political spectrum. Problem is, a country can become different than the values it supposedly represents, which is when love of country and love of its values end up as different things. "America" in an abstract sense is only as strong as those values. So I simply choose to adhere to principles and values instead of abstractions that can become warped by time and perception.

It's Nietzche's "state is the new idol" and all that. Or evolutionary tribal mentality, writ large...at least when it becomes perverted. It's easy to become blinded when we don't think critically about our allegiances, and get too dogmatic about specific words, when the concepts they represent are more important. For example, Hitler was one of the strongest nationalist advocates in history, but none of us here are going to say that what he did was right. But "Germany" or "the German people" became perverted abstracts of anything good they might have represented in his narrative. But he preyed upon that nationalism. So it's a hedge against that kind of slippery slope, which we do see in the modern day, albeit on smaller levels.

Do you disagree? Would you love "America" regardless of what it becomes? I suspect we're not too different here; you're just getting caught up on the semantics of it.

Sable
You know whats crazy Digi, how easily people use Germany and Hitler as comparisons and examples right now to America, only because Trump, and using the slippery slope lane.

But when I bring up relevant issues like people trying to tear down our history, remove statues, go after the anthem, the flag, even the founding fathers now, its viewed as crazy talk and the "slippery slope" is ignored and laughed at.

Sable
Here is a great example that took place last night.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=646287&pagenumber=3

Originally posted by Robtard
I did, you're using a slippery slope. I know it's popular to accuse who you see as your rivals of wanting to 'strip away everything that makes America', but it's just not true. A traitors flag, some statues and a song do not represent everything that is America; I don't care how hard some rube pretends.

So its really odd how people fear we are heading down the path of Germany. When we are not, but won't accept the real fact, we are heading down a path to replacing our culture and history with identity politics controlled by the far left psychopaths.

Digi
Originally posted by Sable
You know whats crazy Digi, how easily people use Germany and Hitler as comparisons and examples right now to America, only because Trump, and using the slippery slope lane.

But when I bring up relevant issues like people trying to tear down our history, remove statues, go after the anthem, the flag, even the founding fathers now, its viewed as crazy talk and the "slippery slope" is ignored and laughed at.

I actually wasn't comparing Hitler to current America. Elements of slippery slope nationalism have existed in every major country in history, but there's no comparison to be made in terms of scope and severity. It's just that he's a great example to use to show why it's important to separate the State from your (and hopefully the State's) core values.

Try not to get bogged down by one name or line that incites your anger. My point was about love of ideals/value/principles, not of the state itself. That's where I doubt we disagree much; and, frankly, where I doubt you disagree with many NFL players. Symbols and words can mean different things to different people, but everyone in this entire debate believes and loves freedom and equality. Everyone. It's important to remember that.

Each topic must be viewed on its own, so I won't disagree with you on the other instances you mention; some may have merit, others may have nuance that makes the case different. But it's not me accusing you of crazy talk or trying to ignore your points. You are remarkably adept at diverting the points of others to ones you can feel indignant about, though, so my main criticism is with the tone of your arguments and how quickly you veer off-topic by misconstruing - deliberately or otherwise - the intents of others.

Sable
Fair enough, so back to your main point. it would take me quite a long time to not love America, things would drastically have to make a change for the worse. That for me would be far to the left, I am fine with staying in the center.

The problem I have with the players and football is it's the one place you could turn it off, meaning the politics, noise and political animus. Now it's infiltrated the game. The protests have now turned into Anti Trump protests, instead of "racial injustice."

Like I said, and we agreed on Dallas nailed it as far as the right and respectful time to protest. Some people will think "hey they have the right to do it whenever." But there is always a proper right time and place for things.

Like at a wedding, you would not turn on your phone and start talking loudly while the ceremony is going on. Or if you were in your bosses office, you prolly would not kick your fett up on his desk. It's the do's and dont's things we know are disrespectful, regardless we have the freedom to do those things but we don't.

Surtur
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
That is understandable, as I too abhor violent crime and the gang mentality...so then why not frame it as such instead of suggesting it is inherently a problem with blacks?

I don't think you're stupid, Surtur, but your stated positions do make me question your character sometimes. Was it something that sounded better in your head than when you posted it, or do you genuinely believe blacks are the issue?

It's not the race, I do not feel any race is superior to another. It is the culture, and yes: it's the black culture here. It might not be comfortable to acknowledge, but it is the truth. I have been to these communities, they are like DMZ's. That is only a slight exaggeration too btw.

We have mexican gangs too you know, especially in Chicago. The majority of murders here still come from another community though and it is not the hispanic community. Because of the culture you end up with over 50% of homicides being committed by a group that makes up like 13% of our population(Those stats are from the FBI, taken from the 1970s until about 2008 I think). There is death EVERY DAY! Kids set on fire and then shot and killed. We have had shootings at funerals for people who died in shootings. More than one, in the span of like a year. That is utterly insane.

Maybe others can ignore it, but I see it in my city, I see it on the news. It's a specific group doing it, not because of their race but because of their culture here. I won't hold my tongue on it, I can't. I'm so sick of it. I want these players to drive through some of these neighborhoods and then go and say it's the cops they need to worry about. 70% of murders unsolved here too btw, so the "they are only mad no justice was done" excuse goes too, there has been no justice for so many murders. So many black on black murders. Sometimes they happen in broad daylight and nobody comes forward, they blame the cops but no people are scared of the thugs, not the cops.

This is a topic that yes does trigger me. I hate the crime, I hate how it's largely ignored. I hate that we blame it only on poverty and ignore the elephant in the room when it comes to culture.

Digi
Originally posted by Sable
Fair enough, so back to your main point. it would take me quite a long time to not love America, things would drastically have to make a change for the worse. That for me would be far to the left, I am fine with staying in the center.

The problem I have with the players and football is it's the one place you could turn it off, meaning the politics, noise and political animus. Now it's infiltrated the game. The protests have now turned into Anti Trump protests, instead of "racial injustice."

Like I said, and we agreed on Dallas nailed it as far as the right and respectful time to protest. Some people will think "hey they have the right to do it whenever." But there is always a proper right time and place for things.

Like at a wedding, you would not turn on your phone and start talking loudly while the ceremony is going on. Or if you were in your bosses office, you prolly would not kick your fett up on his desk. It's the do's and dont's things we know are disrespectful, regardless we have the freedom to do those things but we don't.

Cool cool.

In the sense that protests are supposed to be a bit uncomfortable, I think the anthem is a better time than many realize. But from a perspective of having their actual message received, rather than being misinterpreted as it so often has been, yes, timing is very important. Balancing the spotlight and the message is sometimes impossible, but the Cowboys came the closest so far. We agree there.

Kaepernick started it in response to racial injustice. You're right again that it's become less about that, and more about unity and anti-Trump sentiment. But I'd also argue that there isn't a bad reason to peacefully protest if you're passionate enough about it. So saying that the intent behind it has changed is true, but imo isn't a valid enough criticism to call for them to end. I'd say instead that without a unifying message for the protests, they risk being ineffectual. We'll have to wait to see.

And I'm similarly annoyed that football isn't the escape it once was. But I'm also ready to concede that my annoyance isn't reason enough that it should revert to what it was. Sports has - for a long, long time - been a venue for symbolically representing larger issues. The first game in New Orleans after Katrina. Pretty much every sporting event after 9/11. Jackie Robinson trotting out to take his first major league at-bat, to both cheers and boos. Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics. The list could go on. To deny it its place in the public consciousness for more than just the sporting spectacle is to ignore its history. There are other diversions if we need them. Sports may not be among them for some time, and that may not be a bad thing for the country long-term if it forces certain issues into the spotlight for those who would have otherwise buried their heads in the sand watching grown men give each other concussions for entertainment.

Sable
People are not going to stop kneeling though. There is always going to be some injustice in the world. The hypocrisy is the Jaguars knelt for the American flag in England, but stood for God Save the Queen. These players don't even understand history, all they understand is emotion. England has been one of the most injustice places in the world for centuries, enslaved like 3+ million people. But they took a knee over there, but stood for God Save the Queen.

People should have a venue of escape. And like I have said, the football players are the wrong messengers for social justice. Most of these guys were given passes through college. Didn't learn anything, which is obvious from their protesting American, but standing for England.

Surtur
Originally posted by Sable
People are not going to stop kneeling though. There is always going to be some injustice in the world. The hypocrisy is the Jaguars knelt for the American flag in England, but stood for God Save the Queen. These players don't even understand history, all they understand is emotion. England has been one of the most injustice places in the world for centuries, enslaved like 3+ million people. But they took a knee over there, but stood for God Save the Queen.

People should have a venue of escape. And like I have said, the football players are the wrong messengers for social justice. Most of these guys were given passes through college. Didn't learn anything, which is obvious from their protesting American, but standing for England.

Also why not protest on their own time? This has MASSIVE attention now. So there is no excuse about "well you'd get more attention at the games". They could take this attention and run with it to protest in other ways. Do something good with it, but nah. It'll just be about giving the middle finger to Trump, and Trump is reveling in this.

And remember this all got started by a guy who wears pig socks and is apparently pro castro and che guevara lol. So he clearly knows nothing about the type of person che guevara was. That shit spreads, you hear about the west point graduate with a che guevara shirt under his uniform? Lol...what happened? Is history not taught to people? How do some hold up figures like castro and che guevara?

Sable
It's self serving attention whores. By self serving rich athlets who demand $100 million contracts like Odell Beckham.

Surtur
It just boggles the mind though, Che Guevara? Holy crap. I thought only stupid hipsters ignorant of history wore those shirts. Do they...not know about him? He sure was a revolutionary lol. But he was an awful human being.

Sable
Packers Fans aint having it.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2017/09/27/packers-national-anthem-plans-continue-rile-fans/703520001/

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Surtur
It just boggles the mind though, Che Guevara? Holy crap. I thought only stupid hipsters ignorant of history wore those shirts. Do they...not know about him? He sure was a revolutionary lol. But he was an awful human being.

Yeah Che was a walking POS, but he was a POS that revolutionaried in the way that they LIKE!


Ohhhh Leftists....

Surtur
Originally posted by Flyattractor
Yeah Che was a walking POS, but he was a POS that revolutionaried in the way that they LIKE!


Ohhhh Leftists....

Not to mention the very least of his horrible-ness is he was a pretty big racist lol.

I wonder if they know his thoughts on gays and how he treated the Cuban gay population?

Flyattractor
None of that matters cause he was a COMMIE!

And Commies always make the best Gummints!!!!

Surtur
It is just weird in this country people who essentially call out our country for how it is...endorse actual legit dictators like Castro lol.

Flyattractor
Commies are da Kwaziest of Peoples.

Surtur

Flyattractor
Hope that guy held off from posting that till AFTER graduation,
and out of the dorm rooms.

cdtm
Originally posted by Sable
People are not going to stop kneeling though. There is always going to be some injustice in the world. The hypocrisy is the Jaguars knelt for the American flag in England, but stood for God Save the Queen. These players don't even understand history, all they understand is emotion. England has been one of the most injustice places in the world for centuries, enslaved like 3+ million people. But they took a knee over there, but stood for God Save the Queen.

People should have a venue of escape. And like I have said, the football players are the wrong messengers for social justice. Most of these guys were given passes through college. Didn't learn anything, which is obvious from their protesting American, but standing for England.

Advice from the wise old nanny to her charge on promising her parents not to fight bullies at school *as she knits*: "Do you see what I am doing? I am saying one thing, and doing another. So you too, can say one thing, and do another."

Flyattractor
Now here is a Football Team I will GLADLY Stand with...

Lingerie Football League STANDS!!!

https://cdn.rt.com/files/2017.09/original/59ccc67afc7e93c0388b4567.jpg


smokin'

BackFire
There's a Lingerie football league?

Why was I not informed?

Sable
Yea your momma's(jk)

cdtm
Originally posted by Flyattractor
Now here is a Football Team I will GLADLY Stand with...

Lingerie Football League STANDS!!!

https://cdn.rt.com/files/2017.09/original/59ccc67afc7e93c0388b4567.jpg


smokin'

If they kneeled, no one would complain.

Surtur
Their tiny shoulder pads are so cute.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by BackFire
There's a Lingerie football league?

Why was I not informed?

Because they're butterfaces?

Surtur

cdtm
Good for him.

No rationalizations, just a blunt declaration that if he's protesting in front of the flag, he's PROTESTING THE FLAG. Which is absolutely a respectable position to take, just admit what you're doing..

Surtur

cdtm
Who's saying it has nothing to do with the flag, though? Any of the players?

That excuse is usually said by people who weren't there, as far as I've seen. Pundits, journalists, passive-aggressive posters on internet message boards..

Surtur
Originally posted by cdtm
Who's saying it has nothing to do with the flag, though? Any of the players?

That excuse is usually said by people who weren't there, as far as I've seen. Pundits, journalists, passive-aggressive posters on internet message boards..

All the various people defending it are saying that.

Also now the NBA commissioner has said players have to stand. It will be interesting to see what happens, I think the regular season begins in late October.

cdtm
Originally posted by Surtur
All the various people defending it are saying that.

Also now the NBA commissioner has said players have to stand. It will be interesting to see what happens, I think the regular season begins in late October.

Right, the people defending it.

NOT the players. Just the people who aren't arguing in good faith.

Surtur
Originally posted by cdtm
Right, the people defending it.

NOT the players. Just the people who aren't arguing in good faith.

My favorite is Ray Lewis saying he was just praying.

Though remember I think the cowboys did not kneel during the anthem, but before it.

Sable
Who would have thought

Liberals: Kneeling is showing unity
Common Sense: United We Stand
Liberals: Kneeling is respectfullaughing out loud

Surtur
Originally posted by Sable
Who would have thought

Liberals: Kneeling is showing unity
Common Sense: United We Stand
Liberals: Kneeling is respectfullaughing out loud

I'm interested in what the ratings will be for this weekend. They had an increase due to the controversy, I wonder what will happen now?

But it's just funny because it has been shown this is about the flag lol, it was for Colin K anyways. The same person they whine wasn't included on the Sports Illustrated cover of protesters.

But what I look forward to is seeing the media still try to push this as not being about the flag. They will look stupid, comments from when this originally began prove that.

Which, I don't even know why we needed a quote from Colin though. They *specifically* choose to kneel during the anthem.

Wasn't there also something in the UK where athletes didn't stand for our anthem, but did for "God Save the Queen" ?

socool8520
Meh....while I think the protest is kind of dumb (by which I don't think African Americans are targeted substantially more than any other ethnic group), I still love Football so I'll continue to watch the games.

Sable
NFL 85-90% African American Millionaires.

Players: "We are oppressed"

Media: "if you stand you are a white supremacists!"

Surtur
I welcome what they say as long as they are willing to delve into the "why" of it. Why do blacks die more at the hands of cops? Is it just racism? Or does perhaps the fact they commit murder more than any other group in this country(despite being only 13% of the population) perhaps factor into it?

Cuz for me that is like being shocked people who smoke 3 packs a die are more likely to die of cancer than those who do not.

socool8520
The why is unimportant to these protesters, it's the fact that African Americans are targeted something like 1% more than the next most targeted groups by Law Enforcement. Lol

Surtur
Originally posted by socool8520
The why is unimportant to these protesters, it's the fact that African Americans are targeted something like 1% more than the next most targeted groups by Law Enforcement. Lol

This to me is as silly as the narrative of "more blacks are arrested for weed crimes". Indeed, both whites and blacks do use drugs like weed at comparable rates. So why are more blacks in prison over it? Is it racism? Or...do high crime neighborhoods get more attention from the cops than other areas, and thus...it is going to result in more arrests?

Shh, don't think about it.

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by Surtur
I welcome what they say as long as they are willing to delve into the "why" of it. Why do blacks die more at the hands of cops? Is it just racism? Or does perhaps the fact they commit murder more than any other group in this country(despite being only 13% of the population) perhaps factor into it?

Cuz for me that is like being shocked people who smoke 3 packs a die are more likely to die of cancer than those who do not.

Is that enough justification to excuse the killing unarmed or fleeing suspects by police? Or the repeated electrocution and/or beatings of suspects who are already in custody? Or instances of harsher sentencing of ethnic minorities by the court system?

Surtur
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Is that enough justification to excuse the killing unarmed or fleeing suspects by police? Or the repeated electrocution and/or beatings of suspects who are already in custody? Or instances of harsher sentencing of ethnic minorities by the court system?

Nah, it doesn't justify it. It does justify a discussion about the rampant violence though in the community and why cops react the way they do.

socool8520
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Is that enough justification to excuse the killing unarmed or fleeing suspects by police? Or the repeated electrocution and/or beatings of suspects who are already in custody? Or instances of harsher sentencing of ethnic minorities by the court system?

Who's excusing it? My stance has been that while it is an issue, it isn't even close to the biggest issues facing the African American community.

Well, when high crime neighborhoods happen to be in minority neighborhoods, the chances of getting arrested, and the re-arrested, are pretty high. Repeat offences lead to longer sentences. That tells me you should probably clean up your neighborhoods if you don't want to get arrested. lol

Surtur
Originally posted by socool8520
Who's excusing it? My stance has been that while it is an issue, it isn't even close to the biggest issues facing the African American community.

Well, when high crime neighborhoods happen to be in minority neighborhoods, the chances of getting arrested, and the re-arrested, are pretty high. Repeat offences lead to longer sentences. That tells me you should probably clean up your neighborhoods if you don't want to get arrested. lol

Indeed, they want to ignore the biggest problems in the community. It'd be hilarious if there wasn't so much murder.

But hey, cops and shit. Those bad cops. *70% of Chicago murders unsolved*

socool8520
Would you want to arrest those guys? Statistics say that 90 percent of those murders were committed by fellow African Americans. You do not want to look racist by investigating/arresting them. lol That's how stupid this has gotten.

Surtur
Originally posted by socool8520
Would you want to arrest those guys? Statistics say that 90 percent of those murders were committed by fellow African Americans. You do not want to look racist by investigating/arresting them. lol That's how stupid this has gotten.

They shot each other over dice games held outside funerals being held for people who died via gun violence. This has happened in Chicago multiple times too. That is hilariously disturbing.

I'm not kidding, over a dice game. I can relate, I just flat out beat someone to death with a tire iron during a D&D session. I blamed poverty and got off scott free.

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by socool8520
Who's excusing it? My stance has been that while it is an issue, it isn't even close to the biggest issues facing the African American community.

Well, when high crime neighborhoods happen to be in minority neighborhoods, the chances of getting arrested, and the re-arrested, are pretty high. Repeat offences lead to longer sentences. That tells me you should probably clean up your neighborhoods if you don't want to get arrested. lol
The court systems, and by extension law-enforcement agencies, excuse it when police officers are not held legally accountable in cases where brutality and wrongful deaths is apparent. Many are placed on suspension with pay and go on to continue their careers in law enforcement, a few get fired only to get a job with another law-enforcement agency. It is not often that one will be sentenced to prison, however.
Example: Daniel Palateo was not indicted after choking Eric Garner to death.

Also, in regards to harsher sentencing, I am referring to those minority suspects with identical criminal histories as their white counterparts... not repeat offender against first-time offender. It is real, just like the reality of men being served harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

Surtur
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
The court systems, and by extension law-enforcement agencies, excuse it when police officers are not held legally accountable in cases where brutality and wrongful deaths is apparent. Many are placed on suspension with pay and go on to continue their careers in law enforcement, a few get fired only to get a job with another law-enforcement agency. It is not often that one will be sentenced to prison, however.
Example: Daniel Palateo was not indicted after choking Eric Garner to death.

Also, in regards to harsher sentencing, I am referring to those minority suspects with identical criminal histories as their white counterparts... not repeat offender against first-time offender. It is real, just like the reality of men being served harsher sentences than women for the same crimes.

Yeah yeah, that all sucks. The cops aren't the biggest problem facing the black community though. I'd love the same uproar over 70% of murders here being unsolved.

Spoiler alert: the cops didn't set a 15 yr. old black kid on fire and then shoot him in the back of the head.

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by Surtur
Nah, it doesn't justify it. It does justify a discussion about the rampant violence though in the community and why cops react the way they do.

It certainly does warrant the discussion of the high-crime rates in these communities, and of what can be done to change that. That is a complex issue that would require its own thread of all ten or so active members of the GDF going back and forth without reaching an agreement on most, if any, issues.

The fact remains that there is still the fact that ethnic minorities are targeted much more often without cause for suspicion, and more of them are unjustifiably beaten or killed than whites suspected of similar or identical crimes.

Surtur
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
It certainly does warrant the discussion of the high-crime rates in these communities, and of what can be done to change that. That is a complex issue that would require its own thread of all ten or so active members of the GDF going back and forth without reaching an agreement on most, if any, issues.

The fact remains that there is still the fact that ethnic minorities are targeted much more often without cause for suspicion, and more of them are unjustifiably beaten or killed than whites suspected of similar or identical crimes.

If you belong to a group that commits murder way more than other groups yeah, that same group will most likely have more deaths at the hands of law enforcement.

Are we going to see a big discussion in this country about that? Nope lol. Just about them cops.

socool8520
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
The court systems, and by extension law-enforcement agencies, excuse it when police officers are not held legally accountable in cases where brutality and wrongful deaths is apparent. Many are placed on suspension with pay and go on to continue their careers in law enforcement, a few get fired only to get a job with another law-enforcement agency. It is not often that one will be sentenced to prison, however.
Example: Daniel Palateo was not indicted after choking Eric Garner to death.


Again, not saying it isn't an issue. Just not as big of an issue as is being portrayed. That guy should have been jailed. No argument from me, but there are not a lot of cases where it is that obvious.

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah yeah, that all sucks. The cops aren't the biggest problem facing the black community though. I'd love the same uproar over 70% of murders here being unsolved.

Spoiler alert: the cops didn't set a 15 yr. old black kid on fire and then shoot him in the back of the head.

No, I agree that bad encounters with police aren't the most damaging issue facing troubled minority communities, but for the sake of staying on-topic, police brutality in general and the unequal treatment of ethnic minorities--not just blacks-- by law-enforcement were what Kaepernick's protest was all about, and what the continued kneeling in the NFL, at it its core, are still about.

Surtur
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
No, I agree that bad encounters with police aren't the most damaging issue facing troubled minority communities, but for the sake of staying on-topic, police brutality in general and the unequal treatment of ethnic minorities--not just blacks-- by law-enforcement were what Kaepernick's protest was all about, and what the continued kneeling in the NFL, at it its core, are still about.

Nah, the dipshit said it was about the flag too. Colin flat out said that.

You think they will ever kneel over black on black crime though? Or do they just help the black community by raising awareness over an issue that is nowhere near the most important? Cuz obviously all those other big name celebrities are bringing attention to the black on black crime, so thank you to the NFL for daring to tackle this issue.

Sable
Originally posted by Surtur
Nah, the dipshit said it was about the flag too. Colin flat out said that.

You think they will ever kneel over black on black crime though? Or do they just help the black community by raising awareness over an issue that is nowhere near the most important? Cuz obviously all those other big name celebrities are bringing attention to the black on black crime, so thank you to the NFL for daring to tackle this issue.

Need a hug?

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/Blog/1-GLC1FFqkg3o6MV0-ebFuRQ.jpeg

socool8520
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
It certainly does warrant the discussion of the high-crime rates in these communities, and of what can be done to change that. That is a complex issue that would require its own thread of all ten or so active members of the GDF going back and forth without reaching an agreement on most, if any, issues.

The fact remains that there is still the fact that ethnic minorities are targeted much more often without cause for suspicion, and more of them are unjustifiably beaten or killed than whites suspected of similar or identical crimes. \

I was with you on the drug related/longer sentence thing, but from what the Justice reports show, African Americans are not targeted disproportionately over other ethnic groups. The percentage for violence and deaths were like 2% or less even though African Americans are responsible for more violent crime.

Surtur
Originally posted by Sable
Need a hug?

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/images/Blog/1-GLC1FFqkg3o6MV0-ebFuRQ.jpeg

LMAO!

Eternal Idol
Originally posted by socool8520
\

I was with you on the drug related/longer sentence thing, but from what the Justice reports show, African Americans are not targeted disproportionately over other ethnic groups. The percentage for violence and deaths were like 2% or less even though African Americans are responsible for more violent crime.

Could you share a link to the DOJ reports you referenced? I'd like to look at what they show, and compare it to how many high-profile cases we've had that show the difference in treatment.

I've also made reference to ethnic minorities, not just blacks. Latinos are another large community which is also subject to unfair treatment from law enforcement and the courts.

vansonbee
What about them Asians? You shouldn't leave out how dangerous these people are!

Surtur
Originally posted by vansonbee
What about them Asians? You shouldn't leave out how dangerous these people are!

Being fair though, since we raise the bar for what the Asians need to succeed in college, we should raise the bar on what is considered a crime for them.

I saw this Asian jay walk. Where is the firing squad?

cdtm
Originally posted by Sable
NFL 85-90% African American Millionaires.

Players: "We are oppressed"

Media: "if you stand you are a white supremacists!"

*To dirt poor white guy* "YOU'RE OPPRESSING ME!"

Sable
Out of control NFL

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/09/29/nfl-player-owes-las-vegas-cops-apology-union-leader-says.html

Surtur
Originally posted by Sable
Out of control NFL

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/09/29/nfl-player-owes-las-vegas-cops-apology-union-leader-says.html

Apparently the body cams and stuff do not match up with the story the player told.

Those cams were obviously racist.

Surtur
https://i.imgur.com/8BPGKVc.jpg

Flyattractor
lol

Surtur
https://i.imgur.com/vXSKuUc.jpg

Surtur

Surtur

Flyattractor
If there aint no Beer at a game, then I have abosLUTELY no reason to go..

cdtm
Originally posted by Flyattractor
If there aint no Beer at a game, then I have abosLUTELY no reason to go..

thumb up thumb up thumb up thumb up

It's hard to do a thumbs up with your toes, what with the lack of thumbs, but I'm trying.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.