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Which one is more traitorous and disrespectful to our nation and troops? I'd say the Nazi/Confederate flags, since they are the flags of traitors and enemies whom American soldiers actually died fighting against. What about yourselves?

The founders of this country were traitors as well.

/thread

The former obviously. I think the former is evil whereas the latter is just childish and pathetic.

The football players in the UK didn't kneel during God save the Queen who enslaved like 3 million people. Go figure.

Neither as they are just people exercising their freedom of speech. that said you're free to view them both as retards. I do.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Neither as they are just people exercising their freedom of speech. that said you're free to view them both as retards. I do.

Indeed, I think both are retarded. People have the right to kneel. Just like people have the right to call those who kneel whiny little punks.

How about a "black on black crime vs cop on black crime" thread? You wont' see it, because the answer is obvious, but also an uncomfortable truth.

NFL: We support the players rights to protest injustice
Common Sense: Why do you let rapists, wife beaters who commit injustice play in your league
NFL: No comment.

Originally posted by Sable
NFL: We support the players rights to protest injustice
Common Sense: Why do you let rapists, wife beaters who commit injustice play in your league
NFL: No comment.

And yet they always don't support. The Steelers coach whined that someone dared go against the grain and stand for the anthem.

They have said they are now going to stand from now on. If someone disobeys, you think there will be whining? Or pats on the back for a millionaire taking a knee?

How sad is our country that we have sports teams holding votes on whether to stand during our anthem?

The steelers QB has been accused of rape more then once, they let that injustice stand.

Politics has seeped into EVERYTHING we do. It's depressing. Our sports, our entertainment, everything.

Maybe they should just stop having the players out on the field during the anthem all together. Or just don't play the anthem during a sporting event in the first place. It's always annoying to go get some nachos, sit down and get comfy, and then have to stand up for the anthem.

Originally posted by BackFire
Maybe they should just stop having the players out on the field during the anthem all together. Or just don't play the anthem during a sporting event in the first place. It's always annoying to go get some nachos, sit down and get comfy, and then have to stand up for the anthem.

Why can't they just protest on their own time? Stand during the anthem. It doesn't mean you support police brutality. They have the right to protest, but people died for that right, and that is part of what that flag represents.

Originally posted by Surtur
Why can't they just protest on their own time? Stand during the anthem. It doesn't mean you support police brutality. They have the right to protest, but people died for that right, and that is part of what that flag represents.

Because doing it this way gets more attention. The whole point of protesting is to get attention, and they're getting it, like it or not.

Originally posted by BackFire
Because doing it this way gets more attention. The whole point of protesting is to get attention, and they're getting it, like it or not.

Yeah and...pun intended..it backfired. It's not about police brutality anymore. It's about being anti trump. They complained over Trump, and when Trump revoked an invitation for the NBA champs or whoever, they complained over that too. They can't have it both ways, they act like they don't wanna go but are upset when the invitation is revoked and suddenly call Trump divisive.

So now they will get lots of attention, it just won't be about the cause this was supposedly about.

Say what you want about Hilary(and there is a lot to be said) she sucked it up and went to Trumps inauguration. Some grown ass man can't show the same behavior though. Chumps.

This might be my last season with watching football.

It can be about both. Kneeling is a pretty vague action. It just shows disapproval about something or another. What that thing is can vary from player to player.

Originally posted by BackFire
It can be about both. Kneeling is a pretty vague action. It just shows disapproval about something or another. What that thing is can vary from player to player.

Do you think they will ever kneel over all the black on black crime?

Originally posted by Surtur
Do you think they will ever kneel over all the black on black crime?

Dunno.

Originally posted by Surtur
Do you think they will ever kneel over all the black on black crime?

Black on Black crime doesn't exist, why would they?

The reason they're kneeling is because it let's them virtue signal, without costing them any of their own time or money.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The reason they're kneeling is because it let's them virtue signal, without costing them any of their own time or money.

bingo

Originally posted by BackFire
Dunno.

We both know you do lol. Sure nothing in life is 100% certain, but we pretty much know it will never happen.

Gee, Surtur, your dumbass retard analogies really push the desperation of emotive pleas. It's something a redneck moronic imbecile like yourself excels in, much like the current idiot-in-chief.

This fits:

https://i.imgur.com/pn9aRKv.jpg

Originally posted by Ayelewis
Gee, Surtur, your dumbass retard analogies really push the desperation of emotive pleas. It's something a redneck moronic imbecile like yourself excels in, much like the current idiot-in-chief.

What an epic failure. I'm a redneck now? Try again, I'll allow it.

Originally posted by Sable
The football players in the UK didn't kneel during God save the Queen who enslaved like 3 million people. Go figure.

Probably because people in the UK don't give much of a fvck about the symbolism of national anthems and flags beyond an excuse to get drunk.

Unless they're from Northern Ireland. Those daft cvnts had riots over a change in the times when a Union Jack could be flown over local government buildings.

GbMQ2CxeNHU

Fighting Irish!

Originally posted by Sable
Fighting Irish!

Best not call that lot Irish.

Originally posted by Sable
The football players in the UK didn't kneel during God save the Queen who enslaved like 3 million people. Go figure.

At least they have total freedom of speech in the UK.

Top notch

Being a Nazi/confederate is shit. Kneeling in peaceful protest is just that, peaceful protest. People who have a problem with the later and/or hold both acts as equal are retards.

These negative views over people kneeling is just more proof that clowns will whine over anything.

Originally posted by jaden101
Probably because people in the UK don't give much of a fvck about the symbolism of national anthems and flags beyond an excuse to get drunk.

Unless they're from Northern Ireland. Those daft cvnts had riots over a change in the times when a Union Jack could be flown over local government buildings.

GbMQ2CxeNHU Hahaha post of the month... Still laughing with you Jaden.

Originally posted by Sable
Black on Black crime doesn't exist, why would they?

*In New Hsven, CT, Black man shot, after complaining to another black man leaning on his car.*

Quote from the killer: "He was giving me shit about leaning on his car, so I shot him. Shit happens."

True story. Nobody cared.

Originally posted by cdtm
*In New Hsven, CT, Black man shot, after complaining to another black man leaning on his car.*

Quote from the killer: "He was giving me shit about leaning on his car, so I shot him. Shit happens."

True story. Nobody cared.

Terrible.

That's probably the greatest argument against an armed civilian population--too many people use them as a means to intimidate anyone who may challenge their misbehavior, and too many of them are willing to kill over preserving their own pride in the heat of the moment.

Originally posted by Robtard
Being a Nazi/confederate is shit. Kneeling in peaceful protest is just that, peaceful protest. People who have a problem with the later and/or hold both acts as equal are retards.

These negative views over people kneeling is just more proof that clowns will whine over anything.
Let me get this straight, I morally and logically disapprove of them kneeling, but I think they have and should have every legal right to do so, and I don't think it's a remote equivalent with Nazi confederate shit. In this instance, do you consider me retarded?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Let me get this straight, I morally and logically disapprove of them kneeling, but I think they have and should have every legal right to do so, and I don't think it's a remote equivalent with Nazi confederate shit. In this instance, do you consider me retarded?

If you're getting bent out of shape over people kneeling in peaceful protest, yes, you're probably a retard or having a retard moment. You don't have to agree with their mentality, mind you.

So the stance I've expressed isn't inherently retarded, but it's the extent of my emotional investment in that stance that makes me either retarded or not retarded?

How do I know how invested you are in this?

DTfWdljzeNw

Bingo

That woman destroyed every Trumper

I don't put the rebel flag in the same category as the Nazi flag.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
DTfWdljzeNw

perfect

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
perfect

You actually agree with what this woman is saying?

Originally posted by Sable
You actually agree with what this woman is saying?

All she's doing is attacking a specific identity..

Apply a lot of her logic to, say, Judiasm. I know I've used Israel as an example before, but that's because they have a very strong identity based around their religion, race, country, ect..

"You shouldn't worship the Israeli flag. That's Idoltry."

"Why focus on our Jewish past, that included participation in the slave trade or aiding Nazi's to round up other jews?"

Bullshit.

I didn't even recognize the line she quoted from the national anthem. Did they change it or something or am I that bad of a patriot?

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I didn't even recognize the line she quoted from the national anthem. Did they change it or something or am I that bad of a patriot?

She changed it, and everything she said was a lie, just like her anthem quote. You notice how Rob, Adam and Bash were all agreeing with what she said, which is kinda scary.

The original Star Bangled Banner tune is much longer than what we sing now.

Regardless of that part of hers being correct or not(I'm not sure), she effing pulled Trumpers pants down and then laughed at their little unpatriotic dicks

Assuming the line doesn't appear in the actual star spangled banner that we sing at football games, then her assertion that it's a racist song that none of us should respect seems to fall flat, IMO.

Kind of ironic that one the one hand we are supposed to denounce the Confederate flag as treasonous, and on the other hand reject the flag/anthem/traditions of our country in an effort to be PC because of our country's sketchy past. What are we left with, exactly?

Nothing. Which is what the left wants. The lady presents so factual evidence and falls flat on her ugly **** face.

Originally posted by Robtard
The original Star Bangled Banner tune is much longer than what we sing now.

Regardless of that part of hers being correct or not(I'm not sure), she effing pulled Trumpers pants down and then laughed at their little unpatriotic dicks

Yea that's it. I must be unpatriotic now.

Originally posted by Sable
She changed it, and everything she said was a lie, just like her anthem quote. You notice how Rob, Adam and Bash were all agreeing with what she said, which is kinda scary.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I didn't even recognize the line she quoted from the national anthem. Did they change it or something or am I that bad of a patriot?

Original manuscript of Francis Scott Key's "Defence of Fort M'Henry", from which the anthem lyrics were taken:


http://hadleycourt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/original-manuscriptSSB.jpg


First printing of "Defence of Fort M'Henry":


https://www.loc.gov/item/ihas.100010457

http://room226.weebly.com/uploads/5/3/4/4/5344580/6957187_orig.jpg


Earliest surviving copy of sheet music:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/The_Star-Spangled_Banner.JPG


"Defence of Fort M'Henry" lyrics, with the verse in question highlighted:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/47349/defence-of-fort-mhenry

Looks like we got a dumb clinger on here.

Rob my post?

Originally posted by Sable
Looks like we got a dumb clinger on here.

Rob my post?

So stop clinging to Trump's nutsack and **** off.

Guy shows up out of no where and wants to talk to me acting like I give a fck about him

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Assuming the line doesn't appear in the actual star spangled banner that we sing at football games, then her assertion that it's a racist song that none of us should respect seems to fall flat, IMO.

Kind of ironic that one the one hand we are supposed to denounce the Confederate flag as treasonous, and on the other hand reject the flag/anthem/traditions of our country in an effort to be PC because of our country's sketchy past. What are we left with, exactly?

It apparently does in the original.

Because America is just the Confederate Flag and the Star Spangled Banner song? Which btw didn't become the national anthem until 1931. LoL. Tell me again how you're not just another ridiculous Trumper.

Originally posted by Robtard
It apparently does in the original.

Because America is just the Confederate Flag and the Star Spangled Banner song? Which btw didn't become the national anthem until 1931. LoL. Tell me again how you're not just another ridiculous Trumper.

So songs, flags, anthems and our history doesn't mean anything. What exactly defines us if we scrap all that?

You do realize this is just another tool of stripping America of it's identity.

Originally posted by Sable
So songs, flags, anthems and our history doesn't mean anything. What exactly defines us if we scrap all that?

You do realize this is just another tool of stripping America of it's identity.

FFS, slippery slope much? No one is saying you can't have a confederate flag hanging in your house or a sticker of one on your car. So go for it (though IMO, it's in such poor taste).

I don't have either. Infact I don't even fly a American Flag out front. But I will stand when asked and the American flag is presented.

At least answer my first question without relying on the second statement to avoid the first.

I did, you're using a slippery slope. I know it's popular to accuse who you see as your rivals of wanting to 'strip away everything that makes America', but it's just not true. A traitors flag, some statues and a song do not represent everything that is America; I don't care how hard some rube pretends.

No no. We are tearing down statues, saying who cares about the anthem, who cares about the flag. So what are we without our history?

No one was worshiping these statues. No one even cared till they were getting torn down. It's like burning books.

Statues of traitors. Who btw are being moved to other locations, not being "torn down", at least the ones done by the city and not vandals.

You're now conflating the Confederate flag banning on government sites with the American flag. No one is trying to get ride of the American flag.

The Anthem, I don't have a problem with it in it's current 'clean' form, but once again, it wasn't much of a thing until 1931, so pretending now that if it was banned means America's history is erased is being a silly 'the sky is falling!' type.

England has Statues of GW as you pointed out.

If the war had not been about slaves. No one would care.

Okay, and?

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/thumbs/picture/2388802/84796713.jpg

Originally posted by Robtard
Okay, and?

Meaning that saying the statues need to be torn down because they were traitors is nonsense. England didn't start tearing down statues.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/thumbs/picture/2388802/84796713.jpg

Pretty much.

The Anthem thing was the weirdest one, imo, it's like they believe George Washington wrote it himself and it's been the Anthem since the late 1700's or something.

He did God Danmit!

Originally posted by Sable
Meaning that saying the statues need to be torn down because they were traitors is nonsense. England didn't start tearing down statues.

Okay, are we England now? Did George Washington fight to enslave the English? What exactly is your point here, cos it appears to be exactly what Eternal Idol pointed out, avoiding the points I brought up with irrelevant nonsense.

Wouldn't know, that guy went on ignore. Anyways, like I said, if the war had been about anything but "slaves" no one would care about the statues.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Hahaha post of the month... Still laughing with you Jaden.

My favourite was the NOOOO SURRREENNDEEERRRR woman.

Originally posted by Sable
No no. We are tearing down statues, saying who cares about the anthem, who cares about the flag. So what are we without our history?

No one was worshiping these statues. No one even cared till they were getting torn down. It's like burning books.

An anthem and a flag aren't history. Actions and events and people are history. Maybe there was a time when flags and anthems were used to rouse people into acting for the greater good of humanity. Now they seem to be used by powerful people to goad others into working against their own interests and those of wider humanity in order to those in power.

The people who seem to care the least about what a flag and anthem symbolise are those who invoke it the most.

Originally posted by Robtard
It apparently does in the original.

Because America is just the Confederate Flag and the Star Spangled Banner song? Which btw didn't become the national anthem until 1931. LoL. Tell me again how you're not just another ridiculous Trumper. Strawman much? Either respond to my actual point or don't waste my time.

even Usan Bolt respects our flag and anthem

Originally posted by Robtard
Okay, are we England now? Did George Washington fight to enslave the English? What exactly is your point here, cos it appears to be exactly what Eternal Idol pointed out, avoiding the points I brought up with irrelevant nonsense.
Originally posted by Sable
Wouldn't know, that guy went on ignore. Anyways, like I said, if the war had been about anything but "slaves" no one would care about the statues.

Well, that was easy.

I'm disappointed he didn't call me a snowflake as he hit the ignore button to create himself a safe space from logic.

We got a clinger boys, it's like that piece of poop that won't flush! Just be honest with me. Where did I ever say I wanted to converse with you?

Originally posted by Sable
We got a clinger boys, it's like that piece of poop that won't flush! Just be honest with me. Where did I ever say I wanted to converse with you?

I thought you had me on ignore, ****? So ignore me.

Aw poor troll throwing a fit. Only recently came to the gdf to do as much.

Originally posted by jaden101
An anthem and a flag aren't history. Actions and events and people are history. Maybe there was a time when flags and anthems were used to rouse people into acting for the greater good of humanity. Now they seem to be used by powerful people to goad others into working against their own interests and those of wider humanity in order to those in power.

The people who seem to care the least about what a flag and anthem symbolise are those who invoke it the most.

Yes but the big picture. Tear down our cultural identity and replace it with identity politics based on race and skin color.

It's already at work. I just posted in the other thread.. The Dallas school board is having debates of removing the founding fathers names from schools they were named after.

It starts with "Confederate Statues" then the Flag, then the anthem, now the founding fathers. They are coming after our history, our past and ultimately our way of life. And the main goal is the Constitution. To change it based on it was written by "bad people" so we need a new one.

Yeah because I remember my first history class in high school and listening to my teacher explain how without the statue of Stonewall Jackson in the park on the other side of town it would be impossible for him to teach us about the Civil War. LOL!

I am born and raised in Alabama. No one is talking about purging the history books. But when you put up statues of people and things in public places this is something done to honor or exalt that person or thing. Why then are we putting up statues in our towns and parks down here of people that took up arms against the United States of America? You know, traitors.

And my God look at the cause. People can sugar coat it with the "States Rights" horse shit all they want. The South seceded because they feared the northern states were going to ban slavery which would cause them to "Lose Their Property". The property being slaves.

Alexander Stephens (vice president of the confederacy) said the following after the passing of the Confederate Constitution.

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Racist dickheads like this are what you are defending when you defend keeping statues up honoring the leaders and generals of the south during this time period.

This is isn't about destroying anyones heritage or history. Hitler hasn't been purged from the history books. The germans just don't put up statues honoring the mother****er in every town like we mysteriously do with the traitors that waged war against our country from 1861 to 1865. .

Originally posted by Sable
even Usan Bolt respects our flag and anthem He wasn't born in the US right? Only US born Americans take everything for granted here.

Crazy right?

Originally posted by vansonbee
He wasn't born in the US right? Only US born Americans take everything for granted here.

Did you see what he did? He bolted from the interview to pay respect

Originally posted by Robtard
Pretty much.

The Anthem thing was the weirdest one, imo, it's like they believe George Washington wrote it himself and it's been the Anthem since the late 1700's or something.

Saudi Arabia wasn't a thing until 1930. Israel wasn't a thing until 1948.

When it was created/made official isn't an issue. That's the same logic the British use to run down America, claiming we're a baby country compared to their ancient lineage, as if that matters..

Originally posted by jaden101
An anthem and a flag aren't history. Actions and events and people are history. Maybe there was a time when flags and anthems were used to rouse people into acting for the greater good of humanity. Now they seem to be used by powerful people to goad others into working against their own interests and those of wider humanity in order to those in power.

The people who seem to care the least about what a flag and anthem symbolise are those who invoke it the most.

^ The Scottish get it

Well then, statues aren't history either. lol. Do you see how that works?

Oh and just to nip any excuses in the butt: no, a statue of a person is not an actual person. Since Jaden said "actions, events, and people are history" I didn't wanna leave anyone room to weasel out.

I believe that the reason that national anthems/flags/etc exist is that symbolism matters and serves as a useful tool for conveying ideas.... national pride and/or identity being one of them.

If symbolism didn't matter, then the Nazi flag/Confederate flag/etc would offend nobody.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I believe that the reason that national anthems/flags/etc exist is that symbolism matters and serves as a useful tool for conveying ideas.... national pride and/or identity being one of them.

If symbolism didn't matter, then the Nazi flag/Confederate flag/etc would offend nobody.

Lol wait, that is true. If this stuff is "just a flag" and history is events and people, then the swastika shouldn't be controversial, correct?

You see this is the problem I think people who go to these extremes on both sides fall prey to: they never think about what happens if you take their own beliefs to their logical extreme.

That's exactly why I said in the beginning of this thread that I don't put the rebel flag in the same category as the Nazi flag. Because of what each flag likely symbolizes for the person flying it. Many southerners fly the rebel flag out of some sort of "southern pride." Whereas anyone who flies the Nazi flag is almost certainly either some sort of neo-Nazi or someone who is using that incendiary symbol on purpose to get a rise out of people.

I do think the Confederate flag is culturally insensitive... but the flag of the 3rd Reich is in its own category of symbolic evil IMO. The sickle and star of communism is also IMO much more symbolically evil than the rebel flag is, because of the ideology it promotes. But for whatever reason, we don't as a society treat it with the sort of derision it deserves the way we do with the swastika.

Originally posted by Surtur
Well then, statues aren't history either. lol. Do you see how that works?

Oh and just to nip any excuses in the butt: no, a statue of a person is not an actual person. Since Jaden said "actions, events, and people are history" I didn't wanna leave anyone room to weasel out.

You seem confused again, or you're purposefully being a retard. Not 100% sure either way; at this point, don't care.

Why is Black Power, Black Pride, ok? Why is ok for Asians to wear shirts that say Asian Pride. Or gay people to have celebrations called "gay pride"

But if a white person is proud of being white, he's a white supremacists?

Originally posted by Robtard
You seem confused again, or you're purposefully being a retard. Not 100% sure either way; at this point, don't care.

If we're going with "flags and anthems aren't history" well, statues aren't history either. The name of a place sue as hell wouldn't be history. Why is that different?

Originally posted by Sable
Why is Black Power, Black Pride, ok? Why is ok for Asians to wear shirts that say Asian Pride. Or gay people to have celebrations called "gay pride"

But if a white person is proud of being white, he's a white supremacists?

You see it's cuz slavery existed here. Oh we're pretty much the only country to specifically fight a war to stop slavery, and slavery of course still *actually exists* in some parts of the world(some muslim countries in fact), but you and I need to continue to pay penance for the actions of people 150 years ago. Penance from the people who had nothing to do with it to the people who didn't suffer the original injustice. Makes sense, how do you like living in Bizarro world?

I don't think it's just cause of slavery, but more cause white people did a sort of bang-up job conquering and colonizing the world over the last 500 years. So "white pride/white power" is associated largely with Nazis and KKK members. And that's largely a true assumption.

Originally posted by Surtur
You see it's cuz slavery existed here. Oh we're pretty much the only country to specifically fight a war to stop slavery, and slavery of course still *actually exists* in some parts of the world(some muslim countries in fact), but you and I need to continue to pay penance for the actions of people 150 years ago. Penance from the people who had nothing to do with it to the people who didn't suffer the original injustice. Makes sense, how do you like living in Bizarro world?

Spain hunted down and killed more people and natives here in America and Mexico then the "white devils." As did England, but I don't see anyone lambasting them.

Spain and England are both white countries. Spain less than England, but that's only cause of the Moors. Same with Italians. But yea... bad example?

Spain has never been considered the bad guy though. They are in the "latin" category, so safe from the "white devils" distain. If Trump said, Spain isnt allowed in America cause of their past, people would literally be shitting themselves saying "RACISM!!"

I disagree... they are (historically) considered the bad guy by many. People even want to get rid of Columbus day.

But the bottom line is that white power/pride is associated with a nasty history hence white people are too guilty to indulge. This is the same exact logic as saying that history matters and so does symbolism. You don't just get to wipe the slate clean and declare something like that devoid of any historical connotations when it is so deeply ingrained in the modern psyche.

You disagree on the first part, but not the second, or both?

Oh you edited that in while I was responding. Uh... I dunno if "racism" would be the cry, but people would definitely be pissed. As they should be, as that would be an idiotic policy on his part.

But let's say he said Jews instead of Spaniards... people would cry racism. Even if the Jews were white. So that honestly proves nothing even if it's true.

Originally posted by Sable
Why is Black Power, Black Pride, ok? Why is ok for Asians to wear shirts that say Asian Pride. Or gay people to have celebrations called "gay pride"

But if a white person is proud of being white, he's a white supremacists?

Originally posted by Surtur
You see it's cuz slavery existed here. Oh we're pretty much the only country to specifically fight a war to stop slavery, and slavery of course still *actually exists* in some parts of the world(some muslim countries in fact), but you and I need to continue to pay penance for the actions of people 150 years ago. Penance from the people who had nothing to do with it to the people who didn't suffer the original injustice. Makes sense, how do you like living in Bizarro world?

^

Originally posted by Robtard
^ not an argument robbo

I do find it interesting that for the most part, people that wonder what the big deal is because it's just a flag/anthem are the same ones that agree with removing statues/flag and vice versa.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I do find it interesting that for the most part, people that wonder what the big deal is because it's just a flag/anthem are the same ones that agree with removing statues/flag and vice versa. *profiled

https://media.giphy.com/media/1439vgOeRO4yiY/giphy.gif

Originally posted by Surtur
Well then, statues aren't history either. lol. Do you see how that works?

Oh and just to nip any excuses in the butt: no, a statue of a person is not an actual person. Since Jaden said "actions, events, and people are history" I didn't wanna leave anyone room to weasel out.

Exactly. Which is why I don't get upset about statues being up or not.

I'm sure that's not true.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I'm sure that's not true.

Can't say I'd be happy with statues of Jimmy Savile or Peter Sutcliffe going up but I don't think that'll happen any time soon.

Then again I come from a city where they put up statues of a dragon, penguins, Lemmings and fat, bearded kids comic characters so I'm not sure how valid my opinion is.

Yea I was gonna say even if you don't care about statues of good people you would probably care if the right villain had a statue.

Originally posted by Kurk
not an argument robbo

If someone can't figure out why there's a difference between saying "black power" and "white power" in regards to the history of the US, then a laugh is all they get, Kurky.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I disagree... they are (historically) considered the bad guy by many. People even want to get rid of Columbus day.

But the bottom line is that white power/pride is associated with a nasty history hence white people are too guilty to indulge. This is the same exact logic as saying that history matters and so does symbolism. You don't just get to wipe the slate clean and declare something like that devoid of any historical connotations when it is so deeply ingrained in the modern psyche.

That's right. Nazi's, certainly, but also to a point W.A.S.P.'s.

The powers that displaced them learned from their mistakes, and maintain a very careful face in public while they screw the little people behind the scenes..

Originally posted by Silent Master
I do find it interesting that for the most part, people that wonder what the big deal is because it's just a flag/anthem are the same ones that agree with removing statues/flag and vice versa.

Odd no one is addressing this. Shit does stink when it's in your face.

People don't like having their hypocrisy pointed out.

Originally posted by Silent Master
People don't like having their hypocrisy pointed out.

"But wait this is different!"

I personally don't have a problem with people not standing for the anthem. When I was younger I flatly refused to stand for the pledge of allegiance and anthem in school because there's a truckload of stuff about the country I disliked. That being said, if there's a policy against political statements while in uniform(the way there is for cops) then the players shouldn't be allowed to do it, that's what they signed on for. If there's not such a policy then they should, and all the talk about punishing them is ridiculous because it's a free country.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Which one is more traitorous and disrespectful to our nation and troops? I'd say the Nazi/Confederate flags, since they are the flags of traitors and enemies whom American soldiers actually died fighting against. What about yourselves?

Troops serve so people are allowed to do these things. Ask any troop

Originally posted by darthgoober
I personally don't have a problem with people not standing for the anthem. When I was younger I flatly refused to stand for the pledge of allegiance and anthem in school because there's a truckload of stuff about the country I disliked. That being said, if there's a policy against political statements while in uniform(the way there is for cops) then the players shouldn't be allowed to do it, that's what they signed on for. If there's not such a policy then they should, and all the talk about punishing them is ridiculous because it's a free country.

See, even the Chinese Communist gets this

Originally posted by Sable
Odd no one is addressing this. Shit does stink when it's in your face.

Yet here's me wondering what the big deal is because it's just an anthem/flag and not caring about statues one way or the other.

I doubt the tax payers who have to pay for these stadiums to keep these money hungry teams signed up to support protests they don't agree with.

Anyhow Rob, what about this?

Originally posted by Silent Master
I do find it interesting that for the most part, people that wonder what the big deal is because it's just a flag/anthem are the same ones that agree with removing statues/flag and vice versa.

Originally posted by jaden101
Yet here's me wondering what the big deal is because it's just an anthem/flag and not caring about statues one way or the other.

I basically feel the same, but if you look at the various threads on here. we are the minority.

Originally posted by Sable
I doubt the tax payers who have to pay for these stadiums to keep these money hungry teams signed up to support protests they don't agree with.

Anyhow Rob, what about this?
Those tax payers need to be more concerned with the fact that their tax dollars go to an organization that makes billions of dollars every year then. It's listed as a "non profit" and shouldn't be, THAT'S what they need to be forcused on and trying to change.

Originally posted by Sable
They are not failed points, they cut through the BS, and expose the hypocrisy.

There is no hypocrisy there. Other then the imagined kind of course.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Those tax payers need to be more concerned with the fact that their tax dollars go to an organization that makes billions of dollars every year then. It's listed as a "non profit" and shouldn't be, THAT'S what they need to be forcused on and trying to change.

LOL, the NFL is listed as a non profit? You can't be serious!

Originally posted by Sable
LOL, the NFL is listed as a non profit? You can't be serious!
Yup. That's why they get federal money.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Those tax payers need to be more concerned with the fact that their tax dollars go to an organization that makes billions of dollars every year then. It's listed as a "non profit" and shouldn't be, THAT'S what they need to be forcused on and trying to change.

Non-profits.

Too true.

Originally posted by Robtard
There is no hypocrisy there. Other then the imagined kind of course.

So explain to me how you can support the protest, and say who cares about the flag, anthem, but at the same time support the removal of statues

You can't have it both ways!

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yup. That's why they get federal money.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/nflexempt.asp

They are not a non profit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2015/04/28/the-nfl-is-dropping-its-tax-exempt-status-why-that-ends-up-helping-them-out/?utm_term=.dc8eda867dca

Eh, I'm no fan of the NFL, find it boring and I despise that state tax dollars go to stadiums when they never really recoup the cost back to the tax payers, but:

"The NFL's tax exemption applied only to the league office and not to the teams themselves, and the office has since given up its non-profit status."

So let's not get too crazy here

Originally posted by Sable
http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/nflexempt.asp

They are not a non profit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2015/04/28/the-nfl-is-dropping-its-tax-exempt-status-why-that-ends-up-helping-them-out/?utm_term=.dc8eda867dca
Are you sure they're still getting your tax money then?

They get city taxes for stadiums if the city council passes the tax for a new stadium.

Originally posted by Sable
So explain to me how you can support the protest, and say who cares about the flag, anthem, but at the same time support the removal of statues

You can't have it both ways!

For one, your insistence that the protest is about being anti-America and/or even Anti-Anthem is false. It's not about that, they're kneeling to draw attention to a cause (you can agree or not here on the cause), they're not kneeling to have the anthem taken away or to destroy America.

See, no hypocrisy in reality. Only imagined hypocrisy. Glad we could clear that up.

What cause would that be, I doubt any of the players even know what they are kneeling for other then to protest Trump.

Originally posted by Sable
They get city taxes for stadiums if the city council passes the tax for a new stadium.
Then THAT'S what people should focus on changing. If nothing else, that kind of pressure might force them to make an official "No political statements while in uniform" policy.

Originally posted by Sable
What cause would that be, I doubt any of the players even know what they are kneeling for other then to protest Trump.

This is another false narrative being pushed by Trump/Trumpers.

Lol, no, you think 200 players took the knee this weekend for "social justice."

Originally posted by darthgoober
Then THAT'S what people should focus on changing. If nothing else, that kind of pressure might force them to make an official "No political statements while in uniform" policy.

I agree wholeheartedly

Listen, I'm sorry if you thought SM made some grand valid point in naming hypocrisy, but he didn't. I pointed that out with facts as shown above, you can accept that or not, your choice. I don't care.

Originally posted by Robtard
For one, your insistence that the protest is about being anti-America and/or even Anti-Anthem is false. It's not about that, they're kneeling to draw attention to a cause (you can agree or not here on the cause), they're not kneeling to have the anthem taken away or to destroy America.

See, no hypocrisy in reality. Only imagined hypocrisy. Glad we could clear that up.

I read that more as Sable asking why one is worth caring about over the other.

If your message to those claiming offense to someone refusing to honor the anthem/flag is to "get over it", how is it different for someone to tell another who takes offense at a few racist statues to "get over it."

IF you can't see the flag and the anthem as a symbol of unity, but a political tool, I can't help you.

"But slaves 200 years ago!"< Whole World Had slaves
"But womens suffrage!:<Whole World didn't give equal rights to women
"Police Brutality!"<How many paychecks did you hand over to your community.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Then THAT'S what people should focus on changing. If nothing else, that kind of pressure might force them to make an official "No political statements while in uniform" policy.

So **** these guys then and their cause, eh?

http://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/black_power_ap_img.jpg

Originally posted by Sable
IF you can't see the flag and the anthem as a symbol of unity, but a political tool, I can't help you.

"But slaves 200 years ago!"< Whole World Had slaves
"But womens suffrage!:<Whole World didn't give equal rights to women
"Police Brutality!"<How many paychecks did you hand over to your community.

If you insist on people kneeling in peaceful and silent protest as a both a threat and attack on America, then you really need some help

Originally posted by cdtm
I read that more as Sable asking why one is worth caring about over the other.

If your message to those claiming offense to someone refusing to honor the anthem/flag is to "get over it", how is it different for someone to tell another who takes offense at a few racist statues to "get over it."

Another great post.

Originally posted by Robtard
If you insist on people kneeling in peaceful and silent protest as a both a threat and attack on America, then you really need some help

Another straw man, man you on a roll!

Originally posted by Robtard
So **** these guys then and their cause, eh?

http://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/black_power_ap_img.jpg

Are they doing the "Black Power" thing?

Originally posted by Sable
So explain to me how you can support the protest, and say who cares about the flag, anthem, but at the same time support the removal of statues

You can't have it both ways!

He doesn't care that people protest the American flag or anthem, because they're just a flag/anthem and don't symbolize anything. he is for removing the confederate flag and statues because they're not just flags/statues and do symbolize something.

It makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Are they doing the "Black Power" thing?

Yes

Originally posted by cdtm
I read that more as Sable asking why one is worth caring about over the other.

If your message to those claiming offense to someone refusing to honor the anthem/flag is to "get over it", how is it different for someone to tell another who takes offense at a few racist statues to "get over it."


Repeat: Because. No. One. Is. Attacking. The. Flag. Nor. The. Anthem.

That's the false narrative Trumpco and Trumpers are pushing to diminish the peaceful protestors.

This is also beyond the point that it's legal to burn flags and not stand for the anthem, cos you know, individual rights is still a thing, at least for now.

Originally posted by Sable
Another straw man, man you on a roll!

If you suddenly don't believe that the kneeling is an attack on the flag, the anthem, America, then you've just destroyed all your previous arguments. It works both ways

Originally posted by Silent Master
He doesn't care that people protest the American flag or anthem, because they're just a flag/anthem and don't symbolize anything. he is for removing the confederate flag and statues because they're not just flags/statues and do symbolize something.

It makes perfect sense.

Totally

Originally posted by Sable
Yes
Then it seems about as appropriate as a nazi salute from a white supremacist. If there are rules against one then there should be rules against the other. If both are allowed then whatever.

To me it all depends on whether there's any kind of official policy in place prohibiting such a thing.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He doesn't care that people protest the American flag or anthem, because they're just a flag/anthem and don't symbolize anything. he is for removing the confederate flag and statues because they're not just flags/statues and do symbolize something.

It makes perfect sense.

Are you being sarcastic? About the flag/anthem symbolizing nothing..

Bad at reading sarcasm online, plus you did claim not to really care either way on the flag (Which I can respect )