Can Luminara Unduli ragdoll AotC Anakin?

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Ursumeles
can she?

Azronger
Yes

DarthAnt66
Az, I'm fairly confident this thread was a meme and yet you still agree with it.

Azronger
Of course it was a meme to mock kbro's arguments over at CV. I'm not stupid enough to not understand that.

Kurk
In canon, anyone can ragdoll who they please as long as they're caught off-guard.

godemperortrump
Originally posted by Kurk
In canon, anyone can ragdoll who they please as long as they're caught off-guard.
laughing Same goes for getting captured by Pirates or almost being eaten by a dog

Kurk
Originally posted by godemperortrump
laughing Same goes for getting captured by Pirates or almost being eaten by a dog Or captured by battle droids smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Kbro thinks Luminara can ragdoll AOTC Anakin? KEK.

Rockydonovang
I said she can defeat AOTC Anakin with the force.

Appeals to incredulity aside, Luminara has fought roughly evenly and telkentically stalemated with a superior version of someone who has dominated a superior version of Anakin.

Yyou can say ventress's ragdolls were because of the wekanesses and openeings Anakin leaves rather than superior power(Nova's argument) but the point still stands, ventress has repeatedly been able to exploit the force to take superior versions of Anakin. Ventress pinned Anakin to the wal in the TCW movie's novelization, and has blasted season 3 Anakin who should be growing at a much faster rate than Ventress is.
Finally, we've seen Ventress straight up stalemate TCW Anakin in a telekinetic bout well after AOTC.

Luminara has contended well enough with Ventress 1 v 1 that the notion of her replicating what Ventress has done to superior versions of Anakin to AOTC Anakin is perfectly plausible.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rockydonovang


Appeals to incredulity aside, Luminara has fought roughly evenly and telkentically stalemated with a superior version of someone who has dominated a superior version of Anakin.



When did pre-"Cloak of Darkness" Ventress dominate Anakin?

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Darth Thor
When did pre-"Cloak of Darkness" Ventress dominate Anakin? She pins him on a wall in the TCW movie's novelization

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
She pins him on a wall in the TCW movie's novelization


So not Canon.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Darth Thor
So not Canon.
This is canon only?

Ursumeles
no

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
This is canon only?



It's not even Canon to Legends lol because it contradicts the TCW movie.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's not even Canon to Legends lol because it contradicts the TCW movie.
Uh, how? The TCW Movie never showed us the fight between Anakin and Ventress. erm

|King Joker|
When does the fight take place in the book? Is it the movie's deleted scene fight?

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by |King Joker|
When does the fight take place in the book? Is it the movie's deleted scene fight? Lemme ask for a quote from greyset on cv, I'll post, but yea, I'm guessing that's what the novel goes into depth about

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Uh, how? The TCW Movie never showed us the fight between Anakin and Ventress. erm Because it didn't happen. Ventress was mindtricking Rex so that she could get the location of Anakin, but Anakin and Ahsoka caught onto the fact that Ventress was manipulating Rex, so they left the room they were in immediately. In the deleted scene, Ventress appears at the doorway as Anakin and Ahsoka are leaving right after Rex's message, which makes no sense because twenty seconds prior she was with Rex at the entrance of the temple. And I'm pretty sure Ventress can't teleport.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Because it didn't happen. Ventress was mindtricking Rex so that she could get the location of Anakin, but Anakin and Ahsoka caught onto the fact that Ventress was manipulating Rex, so they left the room they were in immediately. In the deleted scene, Ventress appears at the doorway as Anakin and Ahsoka are leaving right after Rex's message, which makes no sense because twenty seconds prior she was with Rex at the entrance of the temple. And I'm pretty sure Ventress can't teleport.
Yea, a scene not being shown in the movie doesn't contradict a source that depicts said scene.

You can't use the deleted scene to try and force a contradiction because, well, it's a deleted scene.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yea, a scene not being shown in the movie doesn't contradict a source that depicts said scene.

You can't use the deleted scene to try and force a contradiction because, well, it's a deleted scene.


Point is it didn't happen in the movie, so doesn't count.


Edit- Also at least post the passage so we can see if it really is a "domination" as you call it.

Unlikely though given this is the same Anakin who was giving Dooku a run for his money, something Ventress has never been capable of, even in her prime.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Point is it didn't happen in the movie, so doesn't count.
This isn't canon only Thor.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
This isn't canon only Thor.

I'm pretty sure even in Legends Movies overright novels.

Also see my edit. Post the passage. Ventress dominating Anakin completely contradicts power levels set in the same movie.

DarthAnt66
The TCW novel was specifically stated to have lower canonical authority than all the other movie novels because Lucas was not involved.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I'm pretty sure even in Legends Movies overright novels.

Also see my edit. Post the passage. Ventress dominating Anakin completely contradicts power levels set in the same movie.
An absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence Thor.

I'll post when I get it.

As for Dooku:
Dooku was toying with Anakin.

DarthAnt66
Lmfao that fight is completely different than the film, and unlike other film novelizations, it's borderline fan-fiction.

|King Joker|

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lmfao that fight is completely different than the film, and unlike other film novelizations, it's borderline fan-fiction.
Since when have you tried to use differences in dialogue and insignificant details as just cause to wholly dismiss a fight?

Rockydonovang
@Joker, I'm not using the deleted scene as evidence bro.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
@Joker, I'm not using the deleted scene as evidence bro. You're using the novel that depicts the deleted scene fight, which doesn't make the fight any more legitimate.

godemperortrump
I love how Joker shows up when shitty characters like Ahsoka and Luminara are being debated. It's sad

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by |King Joker|
You're using the novel that depicts the deleted scene fight, which doesn't make the fight any more legitimate.
Yea, no, the novel's validity isn't tied to the deleted scene's validity.
The deleted scene has been deleted from the lore. The novelization, has not.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yea, no, the novel's validity isn't tied to the deleted scene's validity.
The deleted scene has been deleted from the lore. The novelization, has not. The movie overrides the novel in canonicity, so if it is literally impossible for the fight to have taken place in the movie, that means the fight did not happen, no matter what the book says. The novel saying the fight happened contradicts the superior source, thus rendering the novel's depiction as bullshit. Period.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by |King Joker|
The movie overrides the novel in canonicity, so if it is literally impossible for the fight to have taken place in the movie, that means the fight did not happen, no matter what the book says. The novel saying the fight happened contradicts the superior source, thus rendering the novel's depiction as bullshit. Period.
Yet again, you're assuming a the logistical plausibility of a deleted scene applies to a separate novelization.

It's also a little laughable that you're trying to use differences in the logistical details present in different sources to try and invalidate source material when differences in details are true of literally every fight which has multiple depictions in source material.

I'll play along though. In season 3, despite Anakin growing at a faster rate, Ventress is a clearly least a match for him and is still able to exploit openings in his defenses or superior power(have your pick) to blast him with the force. TCW Anakin is later then, directly stalemated by Ventress in a telekinetic bout despite Anakin growing at a faster rate.

The point being, AOTC Anakin being able to match later incarnations of Ventress is nonsensical when superior versions of Anakin can only match the corresponding versions of Ventress he faces.

Hence, Luminara being able to contend well with season 2 Ventress is a perfectly fair reason to argue she could take AOTC Anakin.

If you respond, I'll try to respond later on.

Rockydonovang
Here we are:

If you're desperate enough to dismiss this based on a minor logistical discrepancy that occurs across different sources, feel free to, it's not necessary to argue for Luminara here.

DarthAnt66
https://i.imgur.com/ABX5RGC.jpg

Yeah, I'm taking the entire novel with a grain of salt.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by godemperortrump
I love how Joker shows up when shitty characters like Ahsoka and Luminara are being debated. It's sad


Well that's actually a nice change instead of just debating the main characters all the time.

|King Joker|
@Kbro: To get this straight, are we assuming that all sources are of equal validity here? I.e. no canonical hierarchy?

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rockydonovang


As for Dooku:
Dooku was toying with Anakin.


LMAO We saw him trying to kill Anakin.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by |King Joker|
@Kbro: To get this straight, are we assuming that all sources are of equal validity here? I.e. no canonical hierarchy?
If the movie actually featured a contradictory depiction of the fight, then I'd consider the hierarchy.

Regardless, as I said, that specific fight isn't needed to argue for Luminara here.

So feel free to dismiss it.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Darth Thor
LMAO We saw him trying to kill Anakin.
That's never made clear in the movie. You can launch attacks which you know you opponent can defend against. And you don't necessarily need to want someone alive to toy with them.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
If the movie actually featured a contradictory depiction of the fight, then I'd consider the hierarchy.

Regardless, as I said, that specific fight isn't needed to argue for Luminara here.

So feel free to dismiss it. I'm asking because my argument is based on canonical hierarchy, i.e. movie > novel > comic, etc., so if your argument is assuming that all different sources are on equal standing then there's no point in continuing.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
That's never made clear in the movie. You can launch attacks which you know you opponent can defend against. And you don't necessarily need to want someone alive to toy with them.


https://youtu.be/Q6zGXR32dNE

@ 1:23

It's clearly a killing blow, and given Anakin's position, there was clearly no guarantee of him blocking that.

The novel sounds like trash tbh.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yet again, you're assuming a the logistical plausibility of a deleted scene applies to a separate novelization. If the separate novelization is based on the deleted scene which is non-canon, then the novelization is literally based on something that didn't happen. Thus, we can dismiss it.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
It's also a little laughable that you're trying to use differences in the logistical details present in different sources to try and invalidate source material when differences in details are true of literally every fight which has multiple depictions in source material. Lmao, the "logistical detail" (which is a funny way to phrase it, as if what I'm disputing is just a little, irrelevant tidbit) is a large contradiction to the plot of the film. I'm not disputing some throwaway dialogue from the book that isn't in the movie. The book has an added duel that contradicts the sequence of events in the plot of the film, which is pretty significant. Other fights that are adapted in certain novels at least have the benefit of having actually happened, lmfao. The movie's authority is above the book, thus you can't use the book's material that doesn't coincide with the canon plot of the film. Since when are parts of a novel exempt from being disregarded when the movie contradicts it?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I'll play along though. In season 3, despite Anakin growing at a faster rate, Ventress is a clearly least a match for him and is still able to exploit openings in his defenses or superior power(have your pick) to blast him with the force. TCW Anakin is later then, directly stalemated by Ventress in a telekinetic bout despite Anakin growing at a faster rate.

The point being, AOTC Anakin being able to match later incarnations of Ventress is nonsensical when superior versions of Anakin can only match the corresponding versions of Ventress he faces.

Hence, Luminara being able to contend well with season 2 Ventress is a perfectly fair reason to argue she could take AOTC Anakin.
Oops, it seems this was a complete waste of your time. I don't care about your Luminara argument, only the relationship between the deleted scene and the novel.

That being said, I do have to point out the glaringly obvious fact that Ventress did not pin Anakin to the wall with the Force in the excerpt you posted, but she "pinned" him by advancing towards him immediately after he fell to the floor, leaving him no room to move because he was up against the wall. She doesn't even pin him in the deleted scene either, lol.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by |King Joker|

That being said, I do have to point out the glaringly obvious fact that Ventress did not pin Anakin to the wall with the Force in the excerpt you posted, but she "pinned" him by advancing towards him immediately after he fell to the floor, leaving him no room to move because he was up against the wall. She doesn't even pin him in the deleted scene either, lol.
Oh fck, u right, I should have read it closer before copy and pasting it.

Regardless, that's still Ventress defeating Anakin with the force. Anyway, we can agree to disagree on my use of that novelization's depiction of the fight, I my argument doesn't hinge on it.

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