Dark Phoenix and Apocalypse vs Ego...

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TheLordofMurder
Dark Phoenix (X3) and Apocalypse take on Ego in a battle to the Death or KO with no BFR allowed...

Fight takes place beneath the surface of Ego in the vicinity of Ego's brain...

Ego's Avatar stands between the mutants and his brain...

Who wins?

carthage
Duo stomps

He got shut down by an Empath

Jean breaks his mind

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by carthage
Duo stomps

He got shut down by an Empath

Jean breaks his mind

Good point... thumb up

I forgot about Mantis shutting Ego down...

But I must note that she was in direct contact with his neural network when she put him to sleep...

Silent Master
Originally posted by carthage
Duo stomps

He got shut down by an Empath

Jean breaks his mind

Lol at your No Limits fallacy.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Lol at your No Limits fallacy.

I don't believe that its a No Limits Fallacy to think that Dark Phoenix's psionic powers are far greater than Mantis's...

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I don't believe that its a No Limits Fallacy to think that Dark Phoenix's psionic powers are far greater than Mantis's...

What does Jean have that can compare to controlling a cosmic being?

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
What does Jean have that can compare to controlling a cosmic being?

She compares very favorably to someone who put said cosmic being to sleep...

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
She compares very favorably to someone who put said cosmic being to sleep...

What has she done that compares very favorably?

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
What has she done that compares very favorably?

1) Being able to affect multiple targets simultaneously with her power effortlessly; Mantis has only shown the ability to affect one target at a time...

2) Destructive ability: do I really need to elaborate on this one?

3) Defeated one of the strongest minds on planet Earth (Xavier) while in the fledging stages of tapping into the Phoenix Force (while simultaneously rendering Juggernaut and Magneto helpless as a side effect of using her power)...

4) Being powerful enough to do practically anything she could think of; the story directly gives us this info via Magneto...


Need I go on?

Silent Master
Yes, because none of those sound anywhere near as impressive as controlling a Celestial.

TheVaultDweller
Jean does not get Mantis' feats. Until she actually shuts down a planet-sized, cosmic level being, saying she can is nothing but speculation. What's more, Jean is a telepath. Mantis is an empath, and makes a point of distinguishing between the two during the film. So, just because an empath can achieve an effect, it does not mean a telepath can necessarily do the same, as it is extremely likely that their powers do not function in the same way, especially as one is a mutant and one is an alien. Also, Mantis had been at Ego's side for a significant span of time, and had interacted with his mind on several occasions before that moment. So, while it was the first time she shut him down in that specific manner, the actual act of putting him to sleep was not new to her.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Yes, because none of those sound anywhere near as impressive as controlling a Celestial.

Ego is not a Celestial; Ego thinks of himself as a Celestial (thus the name 'Ego')...

In some ways Ego was very impressive, in some ways not...


Mantis didn't come off as being superpowerful in Guardians of the Galaxy 2...

Mantis being able to shut Ego down appeared to be more about Ego being weak against Mental Attacks than Mantis being some ultra powerful telepath that could shut down a 'Celestial.'

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Jean does not get Mantis' feats. Until she actually shuts down a planet-sized, cosmic level being, saying she can is nothing but speculation. What's more, Jean is a telepath. Mantis is an empath, and makes a point of distinguishing between the two during the film. So, just because an empath can achieve an effect, it does not mean a telepath can necessarily do the same, as it is extremely likely that their powers do not function in the same way, especially as one is a mutant and one is an alien. Also, Mantis had been at Ego's side for a significant span of time, and had interacted with his mind on several occasions before that moment.

As per X3, Jean can do practically anything she could think of...

She even demonstrated the ability to cause fusion on a whim...

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ego is not a Celestial; Ego thinks of himself as a Celestial (thus the name 'Ego')...

In some ways Ego was very impressive, in some ways not...


Mantis didn't come off as being superpowerful in Guardians of the Galaxy 2...

Mantis being able to shut Ego down appeared to be more about Ego being weak against Mental Attacks than Mantis being some ultra powerful telepath that could shut down a 'Celestial.'

Sure she did, she controlled a planet sized entity. that is far better than any of Jean's feats.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Sure she did, she controlled a planet sized entity. that is far better than any of Jean's feats.

That planet sized entity was weak mentally...

Unless you want to believe that Mantis has beyond Celestial level powers (I mean she shut down a 'Celestial,' that makes her SUPERIOR to a Celestial...doesn't it??? LoL)...

But you might actually be stupid enough to believe that...

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
As per X3, Jean can do practically anything she could think of...

She even demonstrated the ability to cause fusion on a whim...

Now that is a clear no limits fallacy. Variety =/= anything.

A. She is not an empath.
B. She has never once affected a being on Ego's level.
C. She does not have Mantis' connection to Ego.

Any claim that she can shut him down in the same manner as Mantis did is pure speculation on your part. Also, Mantis weakened herself for significantly longer than she affected Ego (she seemed severely strained by the act, while he seemed more annoyed when he got back). So, even if we assume she can affect him, based on what we see onscreen, attempting to shut him down causes massive mental backlash. Also, what proof is there that Jean would even know to do that? They only tried that tactic out of desperation, and because they knew Mantis had done something similar to him before.

Also, what happened to the "featureless plane" you like to use? Once again, you make your intentions way too obvious by situating the fight right by Ego's only vulnerable spot.

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
That planet sized entity was weak mentally...

Unless you want to believe that Mantis has beyond Celestial level powers (I mean she shut down a 'Celestial,' that makes her SUPERIOR to a Celestial...doesn't it??? LoL)...

But you might actually be stupid enough to believe that...

Prove Ego was weak mentally.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Now that is a clear no limits fallacy. Variety =/= anything.

A. She is not an empath.
B. She has never once affected a being on Ego's level.
C. She does not have Mantis' connection to Ego.

Any claim that she can shut him down in the same manner as Mantis did is pure speculation on your part. Also, Mantis weakened herself for significantly longer than she affected Ego (she seemed severely strained by the act, while he seemed more annoyed when he got back). So, even if we assume she can affect him, based on what we see onscreen, attempting to shut him down causes massive mental backlash. Also, what proof is there that Jean would even know to do that? They only tried that tactic out of desperation, and because they knew Mantis had done something similar to him before.

Also, what happened to the "featureless plane" you like to use? Once again, you make your intentions way too obvious by situating the fight right by Ego's only vulnerable spot.

Its not a no limits fallacy if the movie directly states she can do anything she can think of AND she is literally able to do everything she thought up during the course of the movie (which is the evidence that what the movie stated was not hyperbole)...

A. Jean doesnt have to be an empath as she can do anything she can think up via the Phoenix Force...

B. You overrate Ego. Freaking Mantis shut him down...

C. Jean doesnt need it as she is far more powerful than Mantis...


I dont even think the tactic of shutting down Ego is needed by the team; Rockets bomb destroyed Ego's brain...

The question becomes wether or not you believe that the team has enough firepower to defeat Ego's Avatar and destroy Ego's brain...


As petains to the fight location, arent you one of the posters thats always accusing me of creating spite threads?

Well, I go and create a thread where both sides have the opportunity to win, and now you give me flak for NOT creating a spite thread...

LoL...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Prove Ego was weak mentally.

He was shut down by Mantis; thats proof enough...

Just so we are clear, are you trying to argue that Mantis has 'beyond Celestial level' power since she was able to shut Ego down? If so, you are a complete and utter fool...

Silent Master
Speculation isn't proof.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Speculation isn't proof.

It isnt speculation; Mantis shut Ego down...thats a fact.

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
It its speculation; Mantis shut Ego down...thats a fact.

I agree, your arguments are based on speculation.

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Its not a no limits fallacy if the movie directly states she can do anything she can think of AND she is literally able to do everything she thought up during the course of the movie...

A. Jean doesnt have to be an empath as she can do anything she can think up via the Phoenix Force...

B. You overrate Ego. Freaking Mantis shut him down...

C. Jean doesnt need it as she is far more powerful than Mantis...


It is the very definition of a no limits fallacy. Assuming she can do something she never has onscreen, because, in your opinion, she can do "anything" is literally a prime example.

No, I don't overrate him at all. Mantis taking him out is a testament to her level of power. Just because she doesn't have a lot of feats does not make her weak, considering at no other point in the film did she fail in the use of her powers.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

I dont even think the tactic of shutting down Ego is needed by the team; Rockets bomb destroyed Ego's brain...

The question becomes wether or not you believe that the team has enough firepower to defeat Ego's Avatar and destroy Ego's brain...

So, they know to target the brain now as well? Even though it's not common knowledge, and the Guardians only knew to target it, and where to go to target it, because Mantis told them?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

As petains to the fight location, arent you one of the posters thats always accusing me of creating spite threads?

Well, I go and create a thread where both sides have the opportunity to win, and now you give me flak for NOT creating a spite thread...

LoL...

Yes, I call you out, because it flip flops from thread to thread, depending on how it suits you. When it's RF against the Guardians, it's in Central City. Here, they are right by Ego's brain. But Spiderman vs a Sentinel, even though a big part of his effectiveness revolves around his webswinging, wall climbing etc.? Featureless plane lol. And those are just a few examples out of many.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
I agree, your arguments are based on speculation.

I agree that your argument in this thread is based on idiocy...

Silent Master
Ego wins.

TheLordofMurder
@Vault

It is not my opinion that Jean can do anything she can think of; the movie directly states it and it is backed up in the movie by her literally doing everything she thought up...


And you do overrate Ego, unless you really think Mantis has greater than Celestial level powers (afterall she shut him down...lol).

As pertains her other uses of her power, she affected Drax and Starlord...big wow.


As for the team targeting the brain, obviously they'd have to fight the Avatar 1st...

Assumming they defeat the Avatar, it would make sense to attack the throbbing, giant, brain next...wouldnt it?


As for the fight location, I placed the fight in a place where both sides have an opportunity to win...

The fight locations in other threads I have made dont matter as pertains to this thread...


Who do you think wins btw Vault?

Darkstorm Zero
Aaaaand I see this thread has degenerated into...

https://www.dailydot.com/wp-content/uploads/b19/91/cc4eee60dfb9c2e20bbaf1d7c2be1153-1024x512.jpg

Carry on you crazy honkers.

TheLordofMurder
Who do you think wins Darkstorm?

Josh_Alexander
Ego stomps. No way for team to win.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Ego stomps. No way for team to win.

Based on what?

Lets look at the Avatars durability; it was being blasted down by Starlords guns...

Do you really think this team cant replicate (and go far beyond) that feat?

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Who do you think wins Darkstorm?

I'd say the clowns win. wink

As to the vs..... I would side with the mutant duo, if only because one can distract Ego while the other simply demolecularises the brain, along with everything else in the chamber. Given what Jean did while she was flaying Logan repeatedly, I don't think Ego would like that maelstrom going on inside his brain case, and I imagine Apoc's telepathy, while unhindered would be at least as effective as that of Mantis, considering she is relatively new and naive to her empathic power.

Then again, this is only based on the supposition that mantis really isn't just that insanely innately powerful. Despite her naivete, there isn't really any way to say she isn't based on what we did see... We only have intuition to work on there.

TheLordofMurder
@Darkstorm

Honestly, them shutting Ego down is a non-issue as they wouldnt try that tactic anyway (putting Ego to sleep isnt common knowledge)...

They'd attempt to defeat the Avatar 1st and the Brain 2nd...


Edit: although it might occur to one (or even both) of them to attempt to mind [email protected] the giant brain...

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Darkstorm

Honestly, them shutting Ego down is a non-issue as they wouldnt try that tactic anyway (putting Ego to sleep isnt common knowledge)...

They'd attempt to defeat the Avatar 1st and the Brain 2nd...


Edit: although it might occur to one (or even both) of them to attempt to mind [email protected] the giant brain...

Then why are they in the brain chamber? And why is the avatar standing between them?

These arguments and stips confuse me, hence my earlier pic referencing it being a clown orgy.

You need some serious clarification up in dis here thread bro.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Based on what?

Lets look at the Avatars durability; it was being blasted down by Starlords guns...

Do you really think this team cant replicate (and go far beyond) that feat?

You realize that the Avatar can get 1000 times killed, yet it doesn't mean Ego dies?

How could the team killed Ego? Ego is at a Celestial level, far above Phoenix and Apocalypse.

Starlord was able to defeat Ego because there was a connection between them, otherwise Starlord dies.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Darkstorm

Honestly, them shutting Ego down is a non-issue as they wouldnt try that tactic anyway (putting Ego to sleep isnt common knowledge)...

They'd attempt to defeat the Avatar 1st and the Brain 2nd...


Edit: although it might occur to one (or even both) of them to attempt to mind [email protected] the giant brain...

No. Putting him to sleep won't kill him. And Ego will eventually wake up and kill them.

Not even mantis could shut down ego permanently. Ego will wake up.

quanchi112
Ego wins. Poor mutants.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Then why are they in the brain chamber? And why is the avatar standing between them?

These arguments and stips confuse me, hence my earlier pic referencing it being a clown orgy.

You need some serious clarification up in dis here thread bro.

The parameters of this thread seem pretty clear to me...

Fight takes place inside of Ego near his Brain...

Ego's Avatar stands between in the mutants and his Brain and will do battle with the mutants as a result...

Whats not clear about this?

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You realize that the Avatar can get 1000 times killed, yet it doesn't mean Ego dies?

How could the team killed Ego? Ego is at a Celestial level, far above Phoenix and Apocalypse.

Starlord was able to defeat Ego because there was a connection between them, otherwise Starlord dies.

They'd only have to destroy the Avatar once to clear the way to the Brain and the Avatar doesnt instantly come back (Ego must build another one)...


How do they destroy Ego's Brain?

With brute force power; remember, Rockets bomb destroyed Ego's brain, so I dont undertstand why you think destroying Ego's Brain is beyond these two...


Also, Starlord never defeated Ego; he simply kept him busy while Groot got the bomb close to Ego's Brain...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No. Putting him to sleep won't kill him. And Ego will eventually wake up and kill them.

Not even mantis could shut down ego permanently. Ego will wake up.

Who said putting Ego to sleep would kill him!??

Where the hell are you getting that from?

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
They'd only have to destroy the Avatar once to clear the way to the Brain and the Avatar doesnt instantly come back (Ego must build another one)...


How do they destroy Ego's Brain?

With brute force power; remember, Rockets bomb destroyed Ego's brain, so I dont undertstand why you think destroying Ego's Brain is beyond these two...


Also, Starlord never defeated Ego; he simply kept him busy while Groot got the bomb close to Ego's Brain...

No. Although the Avatar is dead the planet still has his defenses. They won't get to the brain.

Starlord was able to hold Ego because he had the same powers of him (He could control the planet and use it against him). Phoenix and Apocalypse can't control a planet. They get killed.

That was a nuclear bomb, or maybe even more powerful. I don't see Phoenix nor Apo replicating such an explosion.

You say it like if sleeping Ego is the solution. Which isn't.

Ego is above both Apo and Phoenix, they don't have enough power to defeat him.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No. Although the Avatar is dead the planet still has his defenses. They won't get to the brain.

Starlord was able to hold Ego because he had the same powers of him (He could control the planet and use it against him). Phoenix and Apocalypse can't control a planet. They get killed.

That was a nuclear bomb, or maybe even more powerful. I don't see Phoenix nor Apo replicating such an explosion.

You say it like if sleeping Ego is the solution. Which isn't.

Ego is above both Apo and Phoenix, they don't have enough power to defeat him.

They are already at the brain; the only thing standing between them and it is the Avatar...

How does the planet kill these two? That same planet failed to kill any of the Guardians and they are far weaker than either of these two...

And you think Jean...who was able to effortlessly lift a portion of the Ocean into the sky...cant match the force of a nuke!??

Ok dude...believe that if you want.


Edit: please point out where I said that putting Ego to sleep is the solution to how the team wins...go ahead...I'll wait.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
They are already at the brain; the only thing standing between them and it is the Avatar...

How does the planet kill these two? That same planet failed to kill any of the Guardians and they are far weaker than either of these two...

And you think Jean...who was able to effortlessly lift a portion of the Ocean into the sky...cant match the force of a nuke!??

Ok dude...believe that if you want.


Edit: please point out where I said that putting Ego to sleep is the solution to how the team wins...go ahead...I'll wait.

Still how will they destroy the Brain? Simply no way.

And although the Avatar dies the world still has its defences. Those energy tentacles, and tectonic plates moving...They have no chance.

Killing the Avatar won't be an easy task neither. Star Lord shoot him with his lasers and he just regenerated.

They have no way of winning.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Still how will they destroy the Brain? Simply no way.

And although the Avatar dies the world still has its defences. Those energy tentacles, and tectonic plates moving...They have no chance.

Killing the Avatar won't be an easy task neither. Star Lord shoot him with his lasers and he just regenerated.

They have no way of winning.

They destroy the Brain the same way the bomb did; with pure brute force...

Now I agree that the Avatar wont be easy, but atleast IMHO, they have a reasonably good chance to beat it, but I also feel the Avatar is powerful enough to beat them as well...

Both Apoc and Jean however do hit alot harder than Starlords guns...

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
They destroy the Brain the same way the bomb did; with pure brute force...

Now I agree that the Avatar wont be easy, but atleast IMHO, they have a reasonably good chance to beat it, but I also feel the Avatar is powerful enough to beat them as well...

Both Apoc and Jean however do hit alot harder than Starlords guns...

I don't see how they could survive those energy tentacles. Also The Avatar has matter manipulation. He could make himself a suit and beat the crap out of them.

I don't see how they could replicate the blast of a nuclear bomb. Never seen on screen at least.

Ego wins, he is on another level.

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Vault

It is not my opinion that Jean can do anything she can think of; the movie directly states it and it is backed up in the movie by her literally doing everything she thought up...


Characters have been described as "unstoppable" before, and beaten everyone who got in their way in a movie. Doesn't mean they can't be stopped. There is a whole plethora of abilities that Jean never once displayed onscreen. Yet, according to you, she could do any of those things, because of some dialogue. That is a no limits fallacy. How you are unable to grasp that is beyond me.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

And you do overrate Ego, unless you really think Mantis has greater than Celestial level powers (afterall she shut him down...lol).

As pertains her other uses of her power, she affected Drax and Starlord...big wow.

And Classic LoM. Can't properly counter, so you try and strawman and misrepresent my points (something you have done before under similar circumstances). At no point did I say she has greater than Celestial powers. You don't have to have overall greater power to affect someone else. To think that is just plain foolish. But her empath abilities are strong enough to affect a being of that magnitude.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

As for the team targeting the brain, obviously they'd have to fight the Avatar 1st...

Assumming they defeat the Avatar, it would make sense to attack the throbbing, giant, brain next...wouldnt it?

It was covered up, hence why Groot had to go in and plant the bomb. Without someone like Mantis conveying its importance, the Guardians would potentially never even have figured it out.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

As for the fight location, I placed the fight in a place where both sides have an opportunity to win...

laughing laughing laughing

Right, that's why you make certain matches in certain locations that clearly benefits one side over the other, immediately vote for the side you've given the advantage (which is one of the most damning signs of intent), and then often adopt a less-than-flattering attitude to anyone who votes for the other side?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

The fight locations in other threads I have made dont matter as pertains to this thread...

Who do you think wins btw Vault?

The team likely wins because you skewed the match in their favour.

Anyway, I have made a decision. I am done with these threads of yours. Because no matter what I (or anyone else for that matter) say, you aren't going to stop. So, have fun with Quan. You two deserve each other.

quanchi112
Poor LoM.

TheLordofMurder
@Vault

What applies to those those other characters doesnt apply here as Jean is an extreme case and is thus unique...

Here we are talking about the Phoenix Force. If you know anything about it (maybe you should do some research because you clearly dont understand the magnitude what is being discussed here) then you know that its power is practically limitless...

The Phoenix Force being able to do whatever it desires is not hyperbole as a result (its superior to Dormmamu and on par with a fully realized Galactus); the comicbook makes this very clear and I cant wait until the Dark Phoenix movie comes out so you can see how right I am about it...

I pray that they show her in all her glory when she is so powerful that she can casually destroy entire stars on a whim...

In conclusion on this point, there is no "no limits fallacy" when discusssing all the things that the Phoenix Force can do...


And yes, in the case with Mantis, you ARE trying to say that she has greater than Celestial Level powers...

Mantis put Ego to sleep at a time that he didnt want to go to sleep, thus she overpowered him...

So pick your poison: either Ego is weak minded as I believe or Mantis was able to overpower the mind of a Celestial level being...

Choose carefully...


The other cases (as pertains to fight location) are off topic as pertains to this thread...

In this thread the fight location allows both sides the opportunity to win; in a vs fight thats as fair as it gets...


Did you vote btw?

wink

Surtur
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Vault

What applies to those those other characters doesnt apply here as Jean is an extreme case and is thus unique...

Here we are talking about the Phoenix Force. If you know anything about it (maybe you should do some research because you clearly dont understand the magnitude what is being discussed here) then you know that its power is practically limitless...

The Phoenix Force being able to do whatever it desires is not hyperbole as a result (its superior to Dormmamu and on par with a fully realized Galactus); the comicbook makes this very clear and I cant wait until the Dark Phoenix movie comes out so you can see how right I am about it...

I pray that they show her in all her glory when she is so powerful that she can casually destroy entire stars on a whim...

In conclusion on this point, there is no "no limits fallacy" when discusssing all the things that the Phoenix Force can do...


And yes, in the case with Mantis, you ARE trying to say that she has greater than Celestial Level powers...

Mantis put Ego to sleep at a time that he didnt want to go to sleep, thus she overpowered him...

So pick your poison: either Ego is weak minded as I believe or Mantis was able to overpower the mind of a Celestial level being...

Choose carefully...


The other cases (as pertains to fight location) are off topic as pertains to this thread...

In this thread the fight location allows both sides the opportunity to win; in a vs fight thats as fair as it gets...


Did you vote btw?

wink

Why is it a bad thing if she overpowered him psychically? We literally have no real context about her power levels. We see her use them on the Guardians and on Ego. We never actually see the powers fail to work.

TethAdamTheRock
Apocolypse solos

Surtur
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Apocolypse solos

He solo's a sentient cosmic planet?

In the end...his defeat more or less rested on someone who had the same powerset as Ego to keep him distracted long enough to defeat him. Mantis played her part, but they'd all have been killed if Starlord wasn't there.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Surtur
Why is it a bad thing if she overpowered him psychically? We literally have no real context about her power levels. We see her use them on the Guardians and on Ego. We never actually see the powers fail to work.

I never said its a bad thing that she was able to shut him down...

I said it simply means either Ego is either weak minded or Mantis is superpowerful as she overpowered a 'Celestial' level being and put him to sleep against his will...

Now which do you think is more likely; especially given that Mantis has traditionally been a Gamora level character historically?

John Murdoch
Only way I see the team winning is if Phoenix or Apoc nigh-instantly disintegrates or molecularly manipulates Ego's brain.

However, my money is on Ego immobilizing and defeating the mutants due to his matter and energy manipulation powers (constricting/impaling them with his tentacles, crushing them with his planet's rocks, his avatar going Superman II on Apoc, etc.) Ego has home field/planet advantage with his vast array of powers at his disposal, and GotG2 shows that Ego is able to manipulate and even reproduce with many different species throughout the universe, which means the likelihood of Ego affecting mutant physiology is much higher than Fox-verse mutants affecting alien Celestial physiology.

Ego takes them down.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Apocolypse solos laughing out loud

Ego smokes them.

Silent Master
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Apocolypse solos

How, they don't even know the brain exists or that they need to destroy it.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by John Murdoch
Only way I see the team winning is if Phoenix or Apoc nigh-instantly disintegrates or molecularly manipulates Ego's brain.

However, my money is on Ego immobilizing and defeating the mutants due to his matter and energy manipulation powers (constricting/impaling them with his tentacles, crushing them with his planet's rocks, his avatar going Superman II on Apoc, etc.) Ego has home field/planet advantage with his vast array of powers at his disposal, and GotG2 shows that Ego is able to manipulate and even reproduce with many different species throughout the universe, which means the likelihood of Ego affecting mutant physiology is much higher than Fox-verse mutants affecting alien Celestial physiology.

Ego takes them down.

I think you overrate Ego...

His 'Celestial level physiology' didnt keep Mantis from shutting him down against his will...did it?

I think the fact that Mantis got to him makes the likelyhood that the Phoenix Force overwhlems him even more likely...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I never said its a bad thing that she was able to shut him down...

I said it simply means either Ego is either weak minded or Mantis is superpowerful as she overpowered a 'Celestial' level being and put him to sleep against his will...

Now which do you think is more likely; especially given that Mantis has traditionally been a Gamora level character historically?

thumb up

quanchi112
Ego would crush these two. Quit lying to yourself, troll.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I think you overrate Ego...

His 'Celestial level physiology' didnt keep Mantis from shutting him down against his will...did it?

I think the fact that Mantis got to him makes the likelyhood that the Phoenix Force overwhlems him even more likely...

thumb up

quanchi112
Ego crushes these two cucks.

John Murdoch
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I think you overrate Ego...

His 'Celestial level physiology' didnt keep Mantis from shutting him down against his will...did it?

I think the fact that Mantis got to him makes the likelyhood that the Phoenix Force overwhlems him even more likely...

The issue I see is that Mantis is an alien and Phoenix has only manipulated humans, mutants, and Earth-based terrain, objects, and materials.

The big if is can Phoenix and/or Apoc can transmute/matter manipulate/terraform Ego, the substances that comprise his planet/himself, or his brain? If so, then they get the vic due to simply crushing his brain or crushing his brain with the matter composing the living planet.

I just think the likelihood of Ego resisting their mutant powers and defeating the duo is higher than the above-mentioned.

This is one of fights where you have two opposing parties with very exotic powersets, so it's fun to imagine where it'd go.

quanchi112
LoM has been thoroughly shamed.

Silent Master
Originally posted by John Murdoch
The issue I see is that Mantis is an alien and Phoenix has only manipulated humans, mutants, and Earth-based terrain, objects, and materials.

The big if is can Phoenix and/or Apoc can transmute/matter manipulate/terraform Ego, the substances that comprise his planet/himself, or his brain? If so, then they get the vic due to simply crushing his brain or crushing his brain with the matter composing the living planet.

I just think the likelihood of Ego resisting their mutant powers and defeating the duo is higher than the above-mentioned.

This is one of fights where you have two opposing parties with very exotic powersets, so it's fun to imagine where it'd go.


They don't even know the brain exists, the OP just said in the vicinity of the brain. he didn't say within visual range. in the movie the brain was covered. the Guardians had to be told where it was.

John Murdoch
Originally posted by Silent Master
They don't even know the brain exists, the OP just said in the vicinity of the brain. he didn't say within visual range. in the movie the brain was covered. the Guardians had to be told where it was.

Shoot. Then it's game, set, match with Ego as the victor. I don't see how the duo wins unless they go for a fast draw against the brain, but if they don't know specifically about it or that Ego is a living planet and destroying the brain is the only way to win...ya x-people lose this one.

Silent Master
Originally posted by John Murdoch
Shoot. Then it's game, set, match with Ego as the victor. I don't see how the duo wins unless they go for a fast draw against the brain, but if they don't know specifically about it or that Ego is a living planet and destroying the brain is the only way to win...ya x-people lose this one.

Agreed.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
They don't even know the brain exists, the OP just said in the vicinity of the brain. he didn't say within visual range. in the movie the brain was covered. the Guardians had to be told where it was.

Yeah, they do know the Brain exists; Ego's Avatar is standing between the Brain and the mutants...

Don't try and twist my thread around...

The mutants can visually see the Brain...case closed.

quanchi112
LoM is so upset Ego wins based off the evidence.

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Yeah, they do know the Brain exists; Ego's Avatar is standing between the Brain and the mutants...

Don't try and twist my thread around...

The mutants can visually see the Brain...case closed.


Him standing between them and the brain doesn't mean they know the brain exists, especially since the brain is covered so they can't actually see it.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Him standing between them and the brain doesn't mean they know the brain exists, especially since the brain is covered so they can't actually see it.

My thread...

They can see it; the avatar stands between them and the Brain...

Period.

quanchi112
LOM is losing it.

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
My thread...

They can see it; the avatar stands between them and the Brain...

Period.


Per forum rules, it's to let to change stips. meaning the brain is covered and thus they can't see it. nor do they know it exists as that isn't common knowledge.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Per forum rules, it's to let to change stips. meaning the brain is covered and thus they can't see it. nor do they know it exists as that isn't common knowledge.

I haven't changed a thing...

I am clarifying what I wrote...

I can get Imp in here if need be...

Silent Master
Per forum rules, it's too late to "clarify". meaning the brain is covered and thus they can't see it. nor do they know it exists as that isn't common knowledge.

TheLordofMurder
[email protected]@K off...

My thread...

They can see it...

End of story...

Silent Master
The Op says nothing about them being able to see it, thus they can't see it.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Vault

It is not my opinion that Jean can do anything she can think of; the movie directly states it and it is backed up in the movie by her literally doing everything she thought up...


And you do overrate Ego, unless you really think Mantis has greater than Celestial level powers (afterall she shut him down...lol).

As pertains her other uses of her power, she affected Drax and Starlord...big wow.


As for the team targeting the brain, obviously they'd have to fight the Avatar 1st...

Assumming they defeat the Avatar, it would make sense to attack the throbbing, giant, brain next...wouldnt it?


As for the fight location, I placed the fight in a place where both sides have an opportunity to win...

The fight locations in other threads I have made dont matter as pertains to this thread...


Who do you think wins btw Vault?

I clarified them being able to see the Brain on page 2 of this thread btw...

So your BS is nothing more than BS...

Silent Master
Per forum rules, stips have to be cemented in the first few posts. so even if we accept that the above quote was meant as a "clarification" it was made too late.

Thus my previous post stands.

Sable
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I clarified them being able to see the Brain on page 2 of this thread btw...

So your BS is nothing more than BS...

Page 2 is not the first few posts. Thread down.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Sable
Page 2 is not the first few pages. Thread down.

Page 2 is absolutely "the first few pages"

Silent Master
Originally posted by Sable
Page 2 is not the first few pages. Thread down.

I believe you mean posts.

But you're right, the rules state it has to be done in the first few posts.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Per forum rules, stips have to be cemented in the first few posts. so even if we accept that the above quote was meant as a "clarification" it was made too late.

Thus my previous post stands.

Your previous post is BS...

They can see it...

End of story...

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Your previous post is BS...

They can see it...

End of story...


Per forum rules, they can't see it.

Sable

Sable
DP

TheLordofMurder
@Sable

The conditions are clear; nothing has been changed...

Silent is just trolling...

Sable
Originally posted by Silent Master
I believe you mean posts.

But you're right, the rules state it has to be done in the first few posts.

thumb up

Thanks I edited.

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Sable

The conditions are clear...

Silent is just trolling...


The op just says vicinity, it doesn't say anything about within sight of the brain.

Deal with it.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Page 2 is absolutely "the first few pages" If it isn't in the op and isn't immediately within a reasonable amount of posts you're shit out of luck.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
The op just says vicinity, it doesn't say anything about within sight of the brain.

Deal with it.

[email protected]@k off...


The OP is clear:

1) Mutants...
2) Avatar...
3) Brain...


Deal with it...

Silent Master
Yes, the OP is clear in that they're in the vicinity of the brain, nothing was stated about they being able to see it.

quanchi112
This thread sure blew up in LoM's face.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Yes, the OP is clear in that they're in the vicinity of the brain, nothing was stated about they being able to see it.

Them being able to see is implied; it doesn't need to be directly stated...

quanchi112
Confusing thread by the cuck troll.

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Them being able to see is implied; it doesn't need to be directly stated...

Implied, IOW you admit that it wasn't actually stated. Per forum rules stips have to be stated within the first few posts for them to count.

Better luck next time.

quanchi112
LoM loses once again. Hopefully the shameless one will feel it and log out forever.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Implied, IOW you admit that it wasn't actually stated. Per forum rules stips have to be stated within the first few posts for them to count.

Better luck next time.

[email protected]@k off...

Some things don't have to be directly stated...

quanchi112
The rage of this cuck.

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
[email protected]@k off...

Some things don't have to be directly stated...



Per forum rules. Yes, they do.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Per forum rules. Yes, they do.

No they don't...

But we'll get a mod ruling on this; hopefully that'll put an end to your trolling on this matter...

quanchi112
LoM cucking to the mod.

Sable
And the mod will side with his rules, not yours. He will do what he normally does. Not listen to a damn word the mod says. Then try and debate him on the rules.

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
No they don't...

But we'll get a mod ruling on this; hopefully that'll put an end to your trolling on this matter...

Per forum rules, yes they do.

quanchi112
LoM you are going to lose this. Imp won't be cucked.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Per forum rules, yes they do.

Imp has been PM'ed...

So we'll see...

Darkstorm Zero
https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6154/6161941960_b362664ed0_b.jpg

Silent Master
You know he'll side with the people stating that stips have to actually be stated.

quanchi112
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Imp has been PM'ed...

So we'll see... You make me sick, cuck.

Silent Master
Forum rules

7) When the thread starter makes a new thread, it is very important to cement the conditions of the scenario in the first few posts. This is to avoid confusion and frustration among the other posters. It will not be acceptable for the thread starter to randomly change the conditions of the thread at random intervals. Once the settings/weapons/gear/handicaps/abilities/etc have been cemented in the first few posts of the thread, that is how they will stay. Therefore, be very sure and for certain of how you want your thread to be constructed.

Darkstorm Zero
Can anyone please tell me.... why not just debate both sides of that scenario? What IF they could see the brain, and what of they can't? I mean do the comparative scenarios, it aint hard guys... Your arguing over the semantic that he didn't put in the words just to derail the tread.

I get the feeling Imp will not like what he sees when he gets called away from his Wendy's and massages to deal with this... >.>

quanchi112
LoM takes another L.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Forum rules

7) When the thread starter makes a new thread, it is very important to cement the conditions of the scenario in the first few posts. This is to avoid confusion and frustration among the other posters. It will not be acceptable for the thread starter to randomly change the conditions of the thread at random intervals. Once the settings/weapons/gear/handicaps/abilities/etc have been cemented in the first few posts of the thread, that is how they will stay. Therefore, be very sure and for certain of how you want your thread to be constructed.

The conditions are very clear; you are just trying to twist things in your attempt to troll...

You have the Ego's Avatar standing between the Mutants and Ego's Brain...

Its strongly implied here that they can see the Brain; that is manifested on page 2 in response to another poster...


So we'll see...

I firmly believe that Imp will rule in my favor, and hopefully give you a warning for trolling...

smile

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Can anyone please tell me.... why not just debate both sides of that scenario? What IF they could see the brain, and what of they can't? I mean do the comparative scenarios, it aint hard guys... Your arguing over the semantic that he didn't put in the words just to derail the tread.

I get the feeling Imp will not like what he sees when he gets called away from his Wendy's and massages to deal with this... >.>

Derailing the thread is exactly what Silent is attempting to do...

quanchi112
LoM take your bullshit elsewhere. SM is a scum bag but you're a weakling for openly trying to get someone a warning despite your bait threads that have backfired. You're awful and you never use a period. Please self harm ASAP.

Darkstorm Zero
Careful LoM, if Imp is pulled from his Thai Masseus too early without his happy ending, he's likely to stick his semi erect dick into some poor bastard's eye socket and skullf**k them until everyone knows not to bother the Impediment with such trivialities.

Fortunately, I have my welding mask smile

Silent Master
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Can anyone please tell me.... why not just debate both sides of that scenario? What IF they could see the brain, and what of they can't? I mean do the comparative scenarios, it aint hard guys... Your arguing over the semantic that he didn't put in the words just to derail the tread.

I get the feeling Imp will not like what he sees when he gets called away from his Wendy's and massages to deal with this... >.>

Because LoM isn't actually interested in a debate, his intent was to make a spite/bait thread. just like all his other threads.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by quanchi112
SM is a scum bag

For once, you and I agree...

smile

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Careful LoM, if Imp is pulled from his Thai Masseus too early without his happy ending, he's likely to stick his semi erect dick into some poor bastard's eye socket and skullf**k them until everyone knows not to bother the Impediment with such trivialities.

Fortunately, I have my welding mask smile

The Phoenix Force defends me...

smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
For once, you and I agree...

smile Please tell me you're self harming as I type.

Silent Master
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The conditions are very clear; you are just trying to twist things in your attempt to troll...

You have the Ego's Avatar standing between the Mutants and Ego's Brain...

Its strongly implied here that they can see the Brain; that is manifested on page 2 in response to another poster...


So we'll see...

I firmly believe that Imp will rule in my favor, and hopefully give you a warning for trolling...

smile

Implied is a matter of opinion, better luck next time

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Because LoM isn't actually interested in a debate, his intent was to make a spite/bait thread. just like all his other threads.

Now now...

Don't back track and shift goalposts now...

Imp has been contacted; we now await your judgement...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Implied is a matter of opinion, better luck next time

We'll see what Imp has to say about it...

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Silent Master
Because LoM isn't actually interested in a debate, his intent was to make a spite/bait thread. just like all his other threads.

Then... Make something of it? Don't just stand there and complain man, that is weaksauce. If it is indeed spite, then you could not make a case from either side of that scenario, but you didn't even try did you?

@LoM, I sorta stopped posting in this thread after page two because Ego never interested me as a character. He is literally a poor mans Unicron with some Gary Stu tendencies.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Then... Make something of it? Don't just stand there and complain man, that is weaksauce. If it is indeed spite, then you could not make a case from either side of that scenario, but you didn't even try did you?

@LoM, I sorta stopped posting in this thread after page two because Ego never interested me as a character. He is literally a poor mans Unicron with some Gary Stu tendencies.

Even if we argued in good faith, he won't. so why should we encourage his trolling?

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Then... Make something of it? Don't just stand there and complain man, that is weaksauce. If it is indeed spite, then you could not make a case from either side of that scenario, but you didn't even try did you?

thumb up

100% agree...




Ego has his moments; he is an Elder of the Universe however (he is not a Celestial) and as they seem eternally cursed to do, he jobs like hell from time to time...

I actually liked the movie version and thought they did an excellent job bringing him to the big screen though; you did see flashes of his raw power and his 'Ego' was made very apparent when he referred to himself (wrongly) as a Celestial...


But anyway, just my 2 cents...

smile

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
Even if we argued in good faith, he won't. so why should we encourage his trolling?

I argue in good faith all the time, but only when debating with rational posters; check out the thread with Quicksilver in it most recently...

I am completely rational in that one and in many others...


You are on here ONLY to troll though; I recognized that long ago...

You only post to troll and split hairs (ie...derail) other peoples threads...

You almost never make threads yourself, but love to troll others with your one (rarely 2) sentence posts...

Silent Master
LOL!!!!

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
LOL!!!!

You know its true...

Silent Master
I know it's not true and this thread is proof.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Silent Master
I know it's not true and this thread is proof.

The thread is proof that you troll regularly and attempt to derail as much as you can...

Silent Master
Pointing out the obvious bias of others isn't trolling.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Silent Master
Even if we argued in good faith, he won't. so why should we encourage his trolling?

So instead you answer his troll... with more trolling?

Ugh, I have a headache now...

Silent Master
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
So instead you answer his troll... with more trolling?

Ugh, I have a headache now...


I'm merely sticking with what the OP actually states, it's only "trolling" because he doesn't want Ego to win.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm merely sticking with what the OP actually states, it's only "trolling" because he doesn't want Ego to win.

But you arn't doing anything else beyond repeating yourself.... It makes it look like your not trying to proceed the discussion but merely to bog it down to spite LoM.

And look, I know LoM can get.... carried away with his anti Quan sentiments, Really, I do understand that frustration, but simply perpetuating the silly side of these debates does not make anyone stop. I am fairly certain LoM will continue making Future Sentiel vs anything Quan Likes threads until the Sun becomes a frozen iceball.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6d/f1/8c/6df18cf0951a41a32fd01a397e5b3c3f--game-of-thones-game-of-thrones-funny.jpg

Silent Master
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
But you arn't doing anything else beyond repeating yourself.... It makes it look like your not trying to proceed the discussion but merely to bog it down to spite LoM.

And look, I know LoM can get.... carried away with his anti Quan sentiments, Really, I do understand that frustration, but simply perpetuating the silly side of these debates does not make anyone stop. I am fairly certain LoM will continue making Future Sentiel vs anything Quan Likes threads until the Sun becomes a frozen iceball.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6d/f1/8c/6df18cf0951a41a32fd01a397e5b3c3f--game-of-thones-game-of-thrones-funny.jpg

Everyone is repeating themselves at this point, if you really cared about that you'd be calling everyone out. however if it makes you feel better, this'll be my last post.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Silent Master
Everyone is repeating themselves at this point, if you really cared about that you'd be calling everyone out. however if it makes you feel better, this'll be my last post.

I did call everyone out. But I find that the ones who claim to be arguing out of altruism sometimes are the more egregious. You claimed to be arguing against LoM's trolling, and yet you and Quan were doing the least to try and salvage the thread and make it more than what LoM seemingly intended.

Am I saying LoM didn't have alterior motives? No I'm not, because his threads usually entail having digs at Quan, so I'm not saying your not right to suspect him.

Sable
Siding with LoM over SM? Never a wise decision.

Darkstorm Zero
Not siding with anyone.

Just pointing out ways to make the discussion better so as to not have it stall on whether or not the mutants can see the brain. Because that is dumb as shit and everyone knows it.

Sable
I mean your on KMC in its worst years, this place sucks.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sable
I mean your on KMC in its worst years, this place sucks.

I've been on KMC since 2005, and sometimes a forum's worst years are when it is most active, and people get really shitty.

Games vs back in the day had it's good times, and it had it's BAAAAD times. My constant fights with Sado22 and Wandering Flame are legendary. nemebro when he was arguing against Burning Thought were legendary. Or simply on the weeks when we had to put down the occasional sock'n'troll like that Addy Assclown guy.

Sable
Got a link to the name vs burning thought debates?

Darkstorm Zero
any of the old Kain or Raziel threads, but gimme a sec

This is his profile
And this is the last thread he participated in

Sable
Of coars he was banned. You have to be pretty pathetic to permanently ban someone like that.

Look at these cos 'reasons'

Auto-Note (Mar 13th, 2010 05:04 PM)
User banned by Peach, for 3 days

Reason: Trolling and baiting after having been told and warned numerous times to stop.
Auto-Note (Oct 23rd, 2010 03:17 PM)
User banned by Peach, for 7 days

Reason: Twisting things around to troll and continuing to do so after having been told to knock it off.
Auto-Note (Dec 18th, 2011 02:12 PM)
User banned by Peach, for 21 days

Reason: Baiting people, and after being told to stop, continuing to argue it in the thread despite having been told several times to drop it. No one is bullying you; you simply act as though the rules do not apply to you.
Auto-Note (Jan 10th, 2012 12:51 AM)
User banned by Peach, permanently

Reason: Making a sock while temporarily banned.

Darkstorm Zero
Back then, the rules were enforced. Ya know, when the forum was actually active and required moderation. You can't let the monkeys be monkeys among the aristocrats, otherwise there would be murder.

Sable
hence why the forum failed. Banned all the good posters. Then blamed everyone else for it failing.

Sable
I remember certain mods complaining about the forum falling apart. And blaming it on Raz. They could never take responsibility for banning all the good people. Never have never will. Even when the forum was crippled and new people could not register or quality people not registering. They kept banning people cause 'reasons'

Darkstorm Zero
I guess that depends on your interpretation of "Quality people". I mean you have to have rules and laws. And you need to enforce those rules. Like I said, if you allow one and all to be internet monkeys, you have a jungle, not a forum. If you get blatant shitheels posting and you do nothing about it, what does that say when you won't protect those who did no wrong on your forum?

I'm not saying that the Mods didn't occasionally ban or warn the wrong poster. it happens, they are, of course, still human. Heck, when C-Master copped the warning from Ush that made him go into permanent self exile, I was freaking furious at Ush.

Surtur
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I never said its a bad thing that she was able to shut him down...

I said it simply means either Ego is either weak minded or Mantis is superpowerful as she overpowered a 'Celestial' level being and put him to sleep against his will...

Now which do you think is more likely; especially given that Mantis has traditionally been a Gamora level character historically?

Well I feel like Mantis just might have absurdly powerful empathic abilities.

You speak of her being traditionally seen as Gamora level, but if we're going to invoke that well...traditionally Starlord wasn't Ego's kid lol.

Also the Celestials in the movie universe are clearly nowhere near the power levels of the comic versions. So in that context, it isn't that out there.

So I can't figure out why Ego doesn't just take them out via energy tentacle shenanigans. Here are the battle scenes with him:

ayMW9qYGwsM

He just seems a little out of their league.

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