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Which tier list do these DBZ/DBS characters fit in and why?

I'm seeing a massive range of where people think they should be placed.

Base Goku - DBS
SS1 Goku - DBZ
SS3 Goku - DBZ
SSB Goku
SSB Goku Kaioken x10
Beerus
Whis
Zeno

Is this in terms of destructive capacity?

Nope same way we categorize marvel and dc.

Base to SSJ3 Goku - Herald
SSJB Goku - Transcendent
Beerus/Whis - Skyfather
King of All - Celestial+

Originally posted by bbrem123
Which tier list do these DBZ/DBS characters fit in and why?

I'm seeing a massive range of where people think they should be placed.

Base Goku - DBS -Street
SS1 Goku - DBZ - Street
SS3 Goku - DBZ - Streer
SSB Goku - Street
SSB Goku Kaioken x10 - Metw
Beerus - Meta
Whis - Meta
Zeno - Street

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Base to SSJ3 Goku - Herald
SSJB Goku - Transcendent
Beerus/Whis - Skyfather
King of All - Celestial+

Not sure about Goku not being Skyfather. Odin, who's like, top tier Skyfather, isn't necessarily even better than Goku. Odin is certainly more versatile, though.

Beerus and Whis are probably Celestial-Tier (Beerus and Whis, on top of having destructive capacity rivaling some of the best Celestials, also have a very high degree of versatility, unlike most characters in Dragon Ball).

Agreed with Omni-King being Celestial +, he'd probably wipe the floor with most of them, though.

Beerus can fly, shoot energy beams, and erase (most) things from existence. It works for him, but he's not versatile at all by marvel/dc standards.

Whis can fly, generate and manipulate matter on a small scale, can manipulate time on a small scale, has a MFTL transportation skill, and some divination powers. His esoteric power lineup is better, but they're all far, far weaker than what even the most pathetic Skyfather could pull off.

They do have Skyfathers beat in terms of raw power compared to most of their showings though.

On average mountain/city busting, which is solidly high herald level, and top end planetary, well below skyfather top end. Only "feat" that comes close to Skyfather is the universe waves, which is a one off non feat from an unreliable narrator.

Originally posted by cdtm
On average mountain/city busting, which is solidly high herald level, and top end planetary, well below skyfather top end. Only "feat" that comes close to Skyfather is the universe waves, which is a one off non feat from an unreliable narrator.
Your comments here dont match what you said for tiers. Can you give a real one please.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Your comments here dont match what you said for tiers. Can you give a real one please.

Speaking energy projection.

Their speed falls far short of comics, and their durability is sketchy.

speed falls short of comics? how so? There are high heralds that are not fast at all.

Your list was obviously joking. You said Zeno is street when he can instantly destroy a multiverse...

Regular people can follow them. Their biggest "feat" was Roshi vs Krillin way back in dragon ball, and doing a million things in a second faster then anyone can see is street level cheese, happens all the time.

Zeno's arms also got tired just by holding them up.

Goku and Vegeta got knocked around by Arale, Krillin was hurt by bullets, Goku got defeated by a regular laser. And the tournament of power is rife with hazards Superman or even Power Man would shrug off.

Originally posted by cdtm
Regular people can follow them. Their biggest "feat" was Roshi vs Krillin way back in dragon ball, and doing a million things in a second faster then anyone can see is street level cheese, happens all the time.

Zeno's arms also got tired just by holding them up.

Goku and Vegeta got knocked around by Arale, Krillin was hurt by bullets, Goku got defeated by a regular laser. And the tournament of power is rife with hazards Superman or even Power Man would shrug off.

You are low balling...and ignoring on panel feats...

You use that Zeno example to lowball. Name characters that can do this in marvel at the level you put him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Beerus can fly, shoot energy beams, and erase (most) things from existence. It works for him, but he's not versatile at all by marvel/dc standards.

Whis can fly, generate and manipulate matter on a small scale, can manipulate time on a small scale, has a MFTL transportation skill, and some divination powers. His esoteric power lineup is better, but they're all far, far weaker than what even the most pathetic Skyfather could pull off.

Beerus can also nullify energy and seal people into swords.

And yes, while Skyfathers do have more versatility, they also tend to have (far) less raw power than the likes of Beerus. Furthermore, Skyfathers almost never bring such a breadth of versatility to bear in a fight. This is the same reason why I don't even have Galactus on par with Beerus.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Nope same way we categorize marvel and dc.

DB should have its own categories, tbh.

Marvel/DC ones were incorrect to begin with.

What make them different though? We have obvious feats like erasing universes in an instant. Yet some say that is only Meta/Street...

Batman can knock out Zeno.

He can't knock out Odin.

Ok well anybody else? It has been a while since I have been back and completely forgot cdtm have no credit as a poster. hahaha

Originally posted by bbrem123
Which tier list do these DBZ/DBS characters fit in and why?

I'm seeing a massive range of where people think they should be placed.

Base Goku - DBS
SS1 Goku - DBZ
SS3 Goku - DBZ
SSB Goku
SSB Goku Kaioken x10
Beerus
Whis
Zeno

Goku's should fall under Herald Level.

Beerus would fall under Skyfather level.

Whis would fall hardly fit into Celestial level power.

Zeno would be under Celestial level and possibly entering Universal Level.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Beerus can also nullify energy and seal people into swords.

And yes, while Skyfathers do have more versatility, they also tend to have (far) less raw power than the likes of Beerus. Furthermore, Skyfathers almost never bring such a breadth of versatility to bear in a fight. This is the same reason why I don't even have Galactus on par with Beerus.

I agree.

Originally posted by bbrem123
What make them different though? We have obvious feats like erasing universes in an instant. Yet some say that is only Meta/Street...

Zeno would enter Universal level power.

He has the ability to erase Universes. So he is automatically at that level answering your question.

Base Goku, high trans
Beerus Abstract
Whis Abstract
Zeno high cosmic

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Zeno would enter Universal level power.

He has the ability to erase Universes. So he is automatically at that level answering your question.



Universal? Hilarious. Jiren was shaking infinity with just a percentage of his power and Zeno is far more powerful than him. Just stop. Please.

Originally posted by carver9


Universal? Hilarious. Jiren was shaking infinity with just a percentage of his power and Zeno is far more powerful than him. Just stop. Please.

My bad. I would put Zeno at a Multiversal scale.


Yeah he has control over the DB Universes which arguably makes up the DB Multiverse so yeah.

The main issue with DB is that their characters although seen powerful in some areas don't match up Marvel's or DC characters.

For instance. Although i put Zeno on a Multiversal Scale he would never match beings like the Living Tribunal or Michael and Lucifer who also fall under this category.

Whis too. Although he is on a Celestial level or a Universal Level even. I would never put him in par with Celestial beings of Marvel or DC.

Simply because this characters haven't really showed much.

Zen-Oh in the anime erased Cosmic Zamasu, who had embodied time and space throughout the entire Trunks timeline, and was even beginning to affect the alternate present timeline. Zen-Oh erased him and all the universes in the timeline, along with presumably his realm that exists on a higher plane of existence than the 12 universes.

In the manga, it's even better, as Zen-Oh erases hundreds of Merged Zamasu's (each one being so much more powerful than regular SSJB Goku that, when suppressed, they feel as if Goku isn't even moving,) and the entire timeline, to the extent that the time ring is erased (implying that absolutely everything was indeed destroyed). I see no reason why this wouldn't include the world of void, Zen-Oh's realm, alternate dimensions, etc. Zen-Oh does all this instantly and effortlessly.

Verdict: I'm willing to bet Zen-Oh has infinite 3D erasure capabilities. Hell, even someone as comparatively weak as Jiren has power that can reach infinity according to both Android 18 and Elder Kai, and can block a far more powerful SSJG Goku's punches with a finger, whilst suppressed heavily. Hell, it's entirely possible that Zen-Oh even has limitless, or at least nigh-limitless, 4D destructive capability as well.

I don't know who I'd put him on the level of in Marvel or DC. Dimensional tiering doesn't tend to really work with comics. That said, I think Zen-Oh is definitely above universal (not Multiversal) abstracts like Eternity and Infinity, but below the Infinity Gauntlet. I can be convinced otherwise, though.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Zen-Oh in the anime erased Cosmic Zamasu, who had embodied time and space throughout the entire Trunks timeline, and was even beginning to affect the alternate present timeline. Zen-Oh erased him and all the universes in the timeline, along with presumably his realm that exists on a higher plane of existence than the 12 universes.

In the manga, it's even better, as Zen-Oh erases hundreds of Merged Zamasu's (each one being so much more powerful than regular SSJB Goku that, when suppressed, they feel as if Goku isn't even moving,) and the entire timeline, to the extent that the time ring is erased (implying that absolutely everything was indeed destroyed). I see no reason why this wouldn't include the world of void, Zen-Oh's realm, alternate dimensions, etc. Zen-Oh does all this instantly and effortlessly.

Verdict: I'm willing to bet Zen-Oh has infinite 3D erasure capabilities. Hell, even someone as comparatively weak as Jiren has power that can reach infinity according to both Android 18 and Elder Kai, and can block a far more powerful SSJG Goku's punches with a finger, whilst suppressed heavily. Hell, it's entirely possible that Zen-Oh even has limitless, or at least nigh-limitless, 4D destructive capability as well.

I don't know who I'd put him on the level of in Marvel or DC. Dimensional tiering doesn't tend to really work with comics. That said, I think Zen-Oh is definitely above universal (not Multiversal) abstracts like Eternity and Infinity, but below the Infinity Gauntlet. I can be convinced otherwise, though.

I put Zen on a Multiversal Scale because of his erasure powers. He erases universes which automatically puts him above Universal Powers.

But when we look at Zen....That's all he got...

He doesn't have time manipulation, or energy manipulation, or reality warping, or even matter manipulation...All he does is erasing...

Also his mental state is FRAGILE. Man even Goku manages to fool the Omni King!!!

Even Charles Xavier would mentally manipulate him!!!

The Infinity Gaunlet is categorized at a Universal power level. But if we face Omni King against a being with the Infinity Gaunlet...Am willing to say Zen loses badly.

So it's like...Zen is at a Multiversal level but at the same time he loses to Universal beings and even Meta Level beings like Xavier.

We don't know that yet.

I'd argue that despite Zamasu's knowledge of the Super Dragon Balls in the manga, he absolutely knows he can't let Zen-Oh catch wind of his existence, lest he be erased. Keep in mind the SDB's are capable of fulfilling any wish.

Hell, Beerus and Champa have full knowledge of the Super Dragon Balls and the extent of their powers, yet they firmly believe no power in existence is capable of even touching Omni-King. I doubt a mind trick from Xavier is going to harm Zen-Oh if the Super Dragon Balls can't.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
We don't know that yet.

I'd argue that despite Zamasu's knowledge of the Super Dragon Balls in the manga, he absolutely knows he can't let Zen-Oh catch wind of his existence, lest he be erased. Keep in mind the SDB's are capable of fulfilling any wish.

Hell, Beerus and Champa have full knowledge of the Super Dragon Balls and the extent of their powers, yet they firmly believe no power in existence is capable of even touching Omni-King. I doubt a mind trick from Xavier is going to harm Zen-Oh if the Super Dragon Balls can't.

Yeah. Well i don't know if Zamasu was even aware of the Omni Kings existance. New God's like him seem to have little to no knowledge on such a things.

Okay this is what i've noticed:

In the tournament that is being held, have you noticed that Zen is always amazed by the powers being unleashed by the participants? He is always like, "OHHH WHAT IS THAT!!???". He is always being amazed and awe. It's obvious he has never witness such a powers.

Now logically if he has never witness such a powers that means he himself has never performed them...So in that aspect Omni King isn't really Omnipotent...nor a Godly like being..

Sure he erases this like nothing but i doubt he could do anything else.

Well i have never seen mind manipulation to the level of Charles Xavier in DB.. And Omni King is easily manipulated so.. I think Charles could pull out the trick.

Zamasu knew about Zen'o, that's why he shit his pants when he saw him in the manga.

Xavier at best is a planetary manipulator. Babidi showed that he was a planetary mind rapist as well and this was nothing to the Z fighters and this is before DBS...at their weakest level. Xavier isn't doing anything to Zeno, let alone Kid Trunks, etc...

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The main issue with DB is that their characters although seen powerful in some areas don't match up Marvel's or DC characters.

For instance. Although i put Zeno on a Multiversal Scale he would never match beings like the Living Tribunal or Michael and Lucifer who also fall under this category.

Whis too. Although he is on a Celestial level or a Universal Level even. I would never put him in par with Celestial beings of Marvel or DC.

Simply because this characters haven't really showed much.

What areas are they not powerful in? Question, I can't remember the short guy name in the Namek saga that had the power to stop time by holding his breath. Do you think his abilities would work on Super Saiyan Goku?

Beerus is Universal (he would destroy a Celestial, erase them with a thought) and Whis is FAR above him. You're right, Whis isn't Universal, he is far more than that.

Originally posted by Nevan
Zamasu knew about Zen'o, that's why he shit his pants when he saw him in the manga.

He didn't even know about the Super Dragon Balls until he went to Zuno if you don't remember.

Originally posted by carver9
Xavier at best is a planetary manipulator. Babidi showed that he was a planetary mind rapist as well and this was nothing to the Z fighters and this is before DBS...at their weakest level. Xavier isn't doing anything to Zeno, let alone Kid Trunks, etc...

Naah, Xavier is a better mind manipulator. Xavier even manage to read WBH's mind. Which is basically a feat considered impossible.

Originally posted by carver9
What areas are they not powerful in? Question, I can't remember the short guy name in the Namek saga that had the power to stop time by holding his breath. Do you think his abilities would work on Super Saiyan Goku?

Beerus is Universal (he would destroy a Celestial, erase them with a thought) and Whis is FAR above him. You're right, Whis isn't Universal, he is far more than that.

Hahahaha.

Zeno would have no chance against beings like the Living Tribunal or M&L. Zeno can erase things, but that's everything he's got. He has shown no level of time manipulation or energy mantipulation. He hasn't even shown to be a Reality Warper.

Bills hasn't been shown to erase things with his mind.

Whis isn't in par with Eternity or the Celestials.

Whis can't even alter time! He can only travel a few minutes in time. Eternity and all the other Celestial beings aren't limited by these.

I would never place Whis in par of Eternity or the Spectre.

DB focuses on raw power. But they lack in other abilities like Reality Warping, Time manipulation, etc.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He didn't even know about the Super Dragon Balls until he went to Zuno if you don't remember.



Naah, Xavier is a better mind manipulator. Xavier even manage to read WBH's mind. Which is basically a feat considered impossible.

He couldn't read his mind you mean. It was a struggle and he was only getting images.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118649/2268944-world_war_hulk___x_men__001_022.jpg

Xavier can't do anything to than a fighters, let alone Zeno.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Hahahaha.

Zeno would have no chance against beings like the Living Tribunal or M&L. Zeno can erase things, but that's everything he's got. He has shown no level of time manipulation or energy mantipulation. He hasn't even shown to be a Reality Warper.

Bills hasn't been shown to erase things with his mind.

Whis isn't in par with Eternity or the Celestials.

Whis can't even alter time! He can only travel a few minutes in time. Eternity and all the other Celestial beings aren't limited by these.

I would never place Whis in par of Eternity or the Spectre.

DB focuses on raw power. But they lack in other abilities like Reality Warping, Time manipulation, etc.

Lol... he doesn't need to show it since it will not work. Time stopping doesn't even work on Jiren, why do you think it will work on Zeno? Let's be real here.

Beerus has manipulated energy. The guy cancelled out a universe destroying blast. Are you implying Beerus is more powerful than Zeno? Zeno attack during the black arc was so powerful that not only did it destroy all of the Universes in Trunks timeline, but, it affected Goku timeline as well. Manipulating time is nothing to him.

I know Whis isn't on par with the Celestials, he is above them. Doom with just a fraction of the Cosmic cube power took out the entire race of Celestials. Whis would rape a cosmic cube user. If Galactus could be some Celestials, Whis would do it much easier.

Lol, Whis can alter time. The Beyonders was unable to manipulate time but they were still able to kill LT. I don't get where you are going with This?

They don't need other abilities since the abilities you named rarely works.

Beyonders can't manipulate time...

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9038c6e8adde21e4a4c4df154c54f76d

But they blast Celestials to death...

http://abload.de/image.php?img=9nyox8.jpg

Kill Living Tribunal

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107050/5024497-41mhf5b.jpg

Along with Eternity, etc...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107050/5024498-5ng9fce.jpg

And they did it with mere blasts, blasts called UNIVERSAL genocide. Zeno erased everyone here.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... he doesn't need to show it since it will not work. Time stopping doesn't even work on Jiren, why do you think it will work on Zeno? Let's be real here.

Beerus has manipulated energy. The guy cancelled out a universe destroying blast. Are you implying Beerus is more powerful than Zeno? Zeno attack during the black arc was so powerful that not only did it destroy all of the Universes in Trunks timeline, but, it affected Goku timeline as well. Manipulating time is nothing to him.

I know Whis isn't on par with the Celestials, he is above them. Doom with just a fraction of the Cosmic cube power took out the entire race of Celestials. Whis would rape a cosmic cube user. If Galactus could be some Celestials, Whis would do it much easier.

Lol, Whis can alter time. The Beyonders was unable to manipulate time but they were still able to kill LT. I don't get where you are going with This?

They don't need other abilities since the abilities you named rarely works.

Zeno hasn't shown anything but Erasing. That's a fact. Furthermore, in the Tournament of Universes Zeno is always amazed at the different abilities and powers being released, as assuming he himself didn't know/never saw such powers. Which would mean that he can't replicate them/ or hasn't tried.

That's not time manipulation. Zamas was manipulating time from Trunks universe. When Zeno erased him, he didn't affect time, he just erased the one affecting time. Furthermore, Zeno didn't even seem to realize he was sent to the past when Goku presented him with his past self. Zeno didn't even seem to realize that Zeno from the past was actually him. It's pretty clear he isn't familiarized with Time Traveling.

You are assuming that the Cosmic Cubes are < than Whis. You seem to forget that the Cosmic Cubes were created by the Beyonders who are at a level FAR ABOVE Zeno.

Whis can't travel on time. He can only travel minutes through time as stated by his person. The Beyonders are limited to their time line doesn't mean that Whis is on the level of the Beyonders.

Well, I see Galactus turning Bills into a kitten. I see the Michael and Lucifer creating a realm full of toys to imprison Zeno.

DB hasn't shown any other abilities but raw power. Which gives them a HUGE disadvantage against their DC/MARVEL counterparts.

Originally posted by carver9
He couldn't read his mind you mean. It was a struggle and he was only getting images.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118649/2268944-world_war_hulk___x_men__001_022.jpg

Xavier can't do anything to than a fighters, let alone Zeno.

You are assuming Zeno's mind is in par with WBH's. Which isn't the case.

Zeno is very immature. Even Goku manages to manipulate him. It shouldn't be hard for Xavier to do it.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Zeno hasn't shown anything but Erasing. That's a fact. Furthermore, in the Tournament of Universes Zeno is always amazed at the different abilities and powers being released, as assuming he himself didn't know/never saw such powers. Which would mean that he can't replicate them/ or hasn't tried.

That's not time manipulation. Zamas was manipulating time from Trunks universe. When Zeno erased him, he didn't affect time, he just erased the one affecting time. Furthermore, Zeno didn't even seem to realize he was sent to the past when Goku presented him with his past self. Zeno didn't even seem to realize that Zeno from the past was actually him. It's pretty clear he isn't familiarized with Time Traveling.

You are assuming that the Cosmic Cubes are < than Whis. You seem to forget that the Cosmic Cubes were created by the Beyonders who are at a level FAR ABOVE Zeno.

Whis can't travel on time. He can only travel minutes through time as stated by his person. The Beyonders are limited to their time line doesn't mean that Whis is on the level of the Beyonders.

Well, I see Galactus turning Bills into a kitten. I see the Michael and Lucifer creating a realm full of toys to imprison Zeno.

DB hasn't shown any other abilities but raw power. Which gives them a HUGE disadvantage against their DC/MARVEL counterparts.

Can Hit time stop Zeno?

I never said that Zeno was time manipulating anything during that scene. I brought that scene up because Zeno power transcends time and space.

Whis is>>>a partial piece of the Cosmic cube. The cube is Universal at best. Whis tap Universal beings across the head koing them.

Him reversing time is time traveling. He's traveling BACK in time. Lol.. and Whis is FAR above a Beyonder. Starbrand killed one with a planetary level attack.

https://i0.wp.com/themarvelreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/StarbrandAndNightmask4-1-2.jpg

That wouldn't even tickle Whis. The guy stood in the heart of a planet exploding while smiling. And Abyss, a Hulk level character, him and his family turned a Beyonder into a Tree.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/4474972-new+avengers+032-015.jpg

These are the same beings that killed LT and the Celestial race. You honestly don't have a solid argument right now.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You are assuming Zeno's mind is in par with WBH's. Which isn't the case.

Zeno is very immature. Even Goku manages to manipulate him. It shouldn't be hard for Xavier to do it.

That isn't World Breaker Hulk and Zeno mind is above any Hulk.

Zeno is child like but that doesn't mean he can be mind raped. Goku isn't manipulating him, Zeno sees him as a friend.

Originally posted by carver9
Can Hit time stop Zeno?

I never said that Zeno was time manipulating anything during that scene. I brought that scene up because Zeno power transcends time and space.

Whis is>>>a partial piece of the Cosmic cube. The cube is Universal at best. Whis tap Universal beings across the head koing them.

Him reversing time is time traveling. He's traveling BACK in time. Lol.. and Whis is FAR above a Beyonder. Starbrand killed one with a planetary level attack.

https://i0.wp.com/themarvelreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/StarbrandAndNightmask4-1-2.jpg

That wouldn't even tickle Whis. The guy stood in the heart of a planet exploding while smiling. And Abyss, a Hulk level character, him and his family turned a Beyonder into a Tree.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/4474972-new+avengers+032-015.jpg

These are the same beings that killed LT and the Celestial race. You honestly don't have a solid argument right now.

I dont know. Can Zeno travel in time by his own power?

That doesnt mean he is a time manipulator. That means his power isnt limited by time.

Lol No!!! Cosmic cubes make beings have power that transcends universal. Just check the Beyonder or Molecule Man. Again Whis is Universal. He is limited to Universe 7. Else we would see Whis in every Universe.

What!!!? Whis cant travel in time more than a couple of minutes. He isnt a time manipulator. Lol, Whis is Far inferior to an Ivory King. The Beyonders killed by Star Brand arent the same Beyonders that murdered the Cosmic Beings.


Dont confuse the Beyonders that fought the MA with the ones that killed the Cosmic beings.

No they are not the same. Just because they are both Beyonders doesnt mean their power level is the same.

The Three Ivory Kings that killed the Cosmic Beings are FAR MORE POWERFUL than any being DB had to offer. Not even COIE Anti Monitor would par such beings. And Whis isnt to the level of COIE Anti Monitor.

Originally posted by carver9
That isn't World Breaker Hulk and Zeno mind is above any Hulk.

Zeno is child like but that doesn't mean he can be mind raped. Goku isn't manipulating him, Zeno sees him as a friend.

Lol that is clearly trumped the moment Goku manipulates him.

I doubt that. Hulks mind is one of the hardest to attack in Marvel Comics. Zeno is easily cheated by Goku who has 0 mind manipulation abilities.

Based on what? The only thing weve been told has the ability of erasing things. Anything apart from that is pure speculation including him being immune to psychic attacks.

Well everyone seems to realize Goku's lack of respect by nicknaming him. Furthermore he didnt even realized that Goku brought his future self to play with him.Its evident Zeno's mentality isnt the best against manipulation.

Whis is far above a Beyonder.

To quote South Park, this is actually something Carver believes. Telling you man, you can't argue against that level of crazy.

Just read Darksaints posts for the last six months against Carv, eventually he just gave up trying and LOL'd every other post on reflex.

^they're both crazy, tho.

Whis isn't LT/Ivory King level, but Omni-King isn't losing to Xavier.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
^they're both crazy, tho.

Whis isn't LT/Ivory King level, but Omni-King isn't losing to Xavier.

Is there evidence that Omni King is immune to Mental Manipulation? Or you are just assuming that because he is the "Omni King"?

Remember Goku has cheated the poor fellow with 0 difficulty, and Goku has 0 mental abilities.

That's actually not entirely accurate..

Goku is an idiot savant when it comes to fighting, and outwitting someone is just another form of combat. Kind of scary evil, the way he rationalizes to his friends and family without a hint of conscience..

Lets add Jiren to the list now.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Lets add Jiren to the list now.

Jiren has shown exorbitant levels of power.

I would dare to say that Jiren is a Celestial in power. A random Celestial though.

Jiren honestly seems to be weaker now than he was at the start of the ToP.

Nah, it's just that Goku and Vegeta are way stronger than they were at the beginning, or even middle of the tournament.

Originally posted by cdtm
Originally posted by bbrem123
Which tier list do these DBZ/DBS characters fit in and why?

I'm seeing a massive range of where people think they should be placed.

Base Goku - DBS -Street
SS1 Goku - DBZ - Street
SS3 Goku - DBZ - Streer
SSB Goku - Street
SSB Goku Kaioken x10 - Metw
Beerus - Meta
Whis - Meta
Zeno - Street

This is fine trolling here, does everyone have you on ignore, seems most dont even pay attention to you.

Originally posted by Blindside12
This is fine trolling here, does everyone have you on ignore, seems most dont even pay attention to you.

Yes, everyone has him on ignore.

Anyways, ignoring Josh Alexanders bs, which I've put him on blast for many times in the past-

Base Goku - DBS (current) - Transcendent, possibly higher
SS1 Goku - DBZ - Skyfather
SS3 Goku - DBZ - Skyfather+
SSB Goku - Abstract
SSB Goku Kaioken x10 - Abstract
Beerus - High abstract
Whis - High abstract, possible cosmic
Zeno - Multiversal cosmic, possibly higher