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Take turns hitting each other untill one drops

Who wins each (out of 10)

Batman
Batman (BVS))
Black Panther (No suit)
Jason Vorhees
The Winter Soldier
Engineer
Predator
Luke Cage

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Take turns hitting each other untill one drops

Who wins each (out of 10)

Batman
Batman (BVS))
Black Panther (No suit)
Jason Vorhees
The Winter Soldier
Engineer
Predator
Luke Cage

Cap!

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock

Batman - Cap 10/10
Batman (BVS)) - Cap 10/10
Black Panther (No suit) - Cap for at least 6/10. We haven't seen Bucky enough out of the suit to get a good judge.
Jason Vorhees - Which version of Jason is this?
The Winter Soldier - Cap for a slight majority, not sure how slight.
Engineer - Don't know much about Engineer's
Predator - Which Predator?
Luke Cage - Luke should take all 10

Latest movie versions

The engineer from promethus

Originally posted by KingD19
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock

Batman - Cap 10/10
Batman (BVS)) - Cap 10/10
Black Panther (No suit) - Cap for at least 6/10. We haven't seen Bucky enough out of the suit to get a good judge.
Jason Vorhees - Which version of Jason is this?
The Winter Soldier - Cap for a slight majority, not sure how slight.
Engineer - Don't know much about Engineer's
Predator - Which Predator?
Luke Cage - Luke should take all 10

Luke - Cap 6/10.

The shield gives cap the edge.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Luke - Cap 6/10.

The shield gives cap the edge.

Cap doesn't get a shield in a slugfest.

Originally posted by Sable
Cap doesn't get a shield in a slugfest.

Oh yeah sorry, my bad.

Either way, Cap is still stronger.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Oh yeah sorry, my bad.

Either way, Cap is still stronger.

Engineer is probably stronger.

Originally posted by Sable
Engineer is probably stronger.

Hmm yeah.

But Caps Fighting skills are better.

This isnt fighting skills, I don't think you know what a slugfest is. Please learn what a slugfest is.

A forum slugfest is two opponents taking turns hitting each other until one gets knocked out. They can't block, dodge or move around.

Originally posted by Sable
This isnt fighting skills, I don't think you know what a slugfest is. Please learn what a slugfest is.

A forum slugfest is two opponents taking turns hitting each other until one gets knocked out. They can't block, dodge or move around.

Ohh okay. I see.

But isnt Cap more durable than any of these?

I hardly think Cap can get K.O.

The Engineer was about 9ft tall, and 350+ plus. Its unlikely Cap would even hit him in the face. They had suits that probably augmented their own vast strength. The few showings we have from them showed them throwing people around like rag dolls. They showed strength that was above even the Predators.

Based on a complete slugfest I would side with the engineer. In a regular fight I would side with Cap.

Originally posted by Sable
The Engineer was about 9ft tall, and 350+ plus. Its unlikely Cap would even hit him in the face. They had suits that probably augmented their own vast strength. The few showings we have from them showed them throwing people around like rag dolls. They showed strength that was above even the Predators.

Based on a complete slugfest I would side with the engineer. In a regular fight I would side with Cap.

As you said, they had tech that enhanced their strenght. But as you claim, they cant use suits nor any equipement. So basically determining how strong they are without suits is impossible.

After seeing Cap holding a Helicopter wih his arms, and getting punched like hell by Iron Man i dont doubt he can win this.

Its possible, its never been confirmed the suit gives them more strength, but seeing them without it shows how large and strong they are. Given their extreme size and muscle and being the first creators of humans and genetic masters, they have made themselves better as well.

Also you lied, I never said they don't get their suits in a slugfest, that would be like saying Ironman doesn't get his suit in a slugfest. He does.

So you failed again.

Protip, stop lying and start debating like a man.

Originally posted by Sable
Its possible, its never been confirmed the suit gives them more strength, but seeing them without it shows how large and strong they are. Given their extreme size and muscle and being the first creators of humans and genetic masters, they have made themselves better as well.

Originally posted by Sable
Also you lied, I never said they don't get their suits in a slugfest, that would be like saying Ironman doesn't get his suit in a slugfest. He does.

So you failed again.

Protip, stop lying and start debating like a man.

Lol. It doesnt work like that!

The one lying here is you.

When you say an engineer it doesnt necessarily have to wear a suit so no. They wear no suit.

Obviously if you say Iron Man (you refer suit on; else you should say Tony Stark). So in this case no, they dont wear a suit.

Cap is strong enough still. The engineers havent shown much durability, not as much as cap.

It's not been confirmed or denied their suit does anytbing. So until then it's meaningless. Shit lord

Originally posted by Sable
It's not been confirmed or denied their suit does anytbing. So until then it's meaningless. Shit lord

Either way, Cap wins

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
But isnt Cap more durable than any of these?

The fact that you think this suggests that you should not be in this debate. Unless, you know, you can post feats of Cap taking automatic gunfire, hits from SUVs and garbage trucks, rocket launchers, acid baths etc. without sustaining any serious damage. Because Luke Cage has.

gets stopped at Luke Cage

Individually
Any cinematic Bats - Cap 100/10
Black Panther - Cap 5/10, Maybe even 7
Winter Soldier - Cap 3/10. People seems to forget about the metal arm
Engineer - Cap 8/10
Predator - Cap 9/10
Luke Cage - Cage 10/10
Jason depends on incarnation
Original - Cap 10/10
Later version 1 - Cap 7/10
Later version 3 - Cap 6/10
Cyborg Jason - Jason 10/10

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Take turns hitting each other untill one drops

Who wins each (out of 10)

Batman
Batman (BVS))
Black Panther (No suit)
Jason Vorhees
The Winter Soldier
Engineer
Predator
Luke Cage

If the comics are canon the Engineers are >> Predators, so change your order.

So let me get this straight: The fighters aren't allowed to actually dodge a blow? They just stand there and allow each other to land blows alternately?

He loses to Bucky and Cage. Maybe the Engineer, though the engineers lack feats to completely say for certain.

Originally posted by Psychotron
If the comics are canon the Engineers are >> Predators, so change your order.

People often forget this.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So let me get this straight: The fighters aren't allowed to actually dodge a blow? They just stand there and allow each other to land blows alternately?

He loses to Bucky and Cage. Maybe the Engineer, though the engineers lack feats to completely say for certain.

Jason might be a problem too, depending on the incarnation, considering he is strong enough to do things like:

B9Ewb3MojAs

or this, at 1:18:

2PU-dGTWabQ

If they're not allowed to dodge Jason probably stops him. His damage soak is unreal and he's definitely strong enough seriously hurt Steve.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The fact that you think this suggests that you should not be in this debate. Unless, you know, you can post feats of Cap taking automatic gunfire, hits from SUVs and garbage trucks, rocket launchers, acid baths etc. without sustaining any serious damage. Because Luke Cage has.

I went and took at Like Cage's and Cap's fights.

1. Cap is stronger. The Super Soldier syrup makes Cap stronger, and faster than Cage.

2. Durability: Cap is more durable:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_qqTioJS8tc

Luke was getting beaten by Diamondback (Diamondback had superstrenght due to his suit).

https://youtu.be/zG0VMbcwshA

If enduring a high fall and taking direct punches from Iron Man isnt being more durable, then you are retarded.

Cap took several good punches from Iron Man without major damage (Iron Man's suit is definetly stronger than Diamondback's).

Oh and by the way boy, you dont get to decide who particepates in which thread.

Originally posted by Psychotron
If they're not allowed to dodge Jason probably stops him. His damage soak is unreal and he's definitely strong enough seriously hurt Steve.

Captian Americs took several GOOD punches from Iron Man in the face without an issue.

Dont see why he couldnt handle Jason.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I went and took at Like Cage's and Cap's fights.

1. Cap is stronger. The Super Soldier syrup makes Cap stronger, and faster than Cage.

Unless we use the offscreen bulldozer feat, strength is debatable based on actual onscreen feats. Cap has flashier feats, but the strength required to achieve some of Luke's is immense. Also, speed is irrelevant here, as they aren't dodging.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

2. Durability: Cap is more durable:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_qqTioJS8tc

Luke was getting beaten by Diamondback (Diamondback had superstrenght due to his suit).

https://youtu.be/zG0VMbcwshA

If enduring a high fall and taking direct punches from Iron Man isnt being more durable, then you are retarded.

Cap took several good punches from Iron Man without major damage (Iron Man's suit is definetly stronger than Diamondback's).

Cap is not more durable. Iron Man, when he got serious, bloodied Cap and put him on the ground in seconds. Luke took an extensive beating from Diamondback and was still fine at the end of the fight. And considering everything else Luke has tanked, that just shows how powerful Diamondback is. Also, Luke had to let Diamondback wail on him, because he had to let his suit run out of power.

And in his own series, Luke jumped out of a 6th story window, landed on his feet hard enough to crater the concrete, and jogged off without hassles. He's also taken multiple explosions, impacts with large speeding vehicles, sustained gunfire, dips in acid, exploding bullets made from alien metal etc. He's even taken an Iron Fist punch to the jaw and got up within seconds. Hell, even if we use low-ends like the shotgun, he is still more durable, as that would have killed Cap.

To look at their durability feats as a whole and conclude that Cap is more durable, you would have to be a moron.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Oh and by the way boy, you dont get to decide who particepates in which thread.

Suit yourself, but don't say I didn't warn you.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The fact that you think this suggests that you should not be in this debate. Unless, you know, you can post feats of Cap taking automatic gunfire, hits from SUVs and garbage trucks, rocket launchers, acid baths etc. without sustaining any serious damage. Because Luke Cage has.


Luke Cage dense skin makes him more durable at a general level.

But we are talking about punches here, not missiles nor acid.

Luke is durable but not unbreakable.

Enough force will easily put him down. Cap has taken it against Iron Man which is arguably stronger than any character Cage has met.

Cage had trouble against Diamondback. Cap handled Iron Man well.

Cap wins. He is stronger, and can take more fist damage than Cage. He is also faster.

The fact that i ask a question doesnt mean i cant participate in a thread. And i can always research and strengthen my points.

Josh is a shitty troll

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Unless we use the offscreen bulldozer feat, strength is debatable based on actual onscreen feats. Cap has flashier feats, but the strength required to achieve some of Luke's is immense. Also, speed is irrelevant here, as they aren't dodging.



Cap is not more durable. Iron Man, when he got serious, bloodied Cap and put him on the ground in seconds. Luke took an extensive beating from Diamondback and was still fine at the end of the fight. And considering everything else Luke has tanked, that just shows how powerful Diamondback is. Also, Luke had to let Diamondback wail on him, because he had to let his suit run out of power.

And in his own series, Luke jumped out of a 6th story window, landed on his feet hard enough to crater the concrete, and jogged off without hassles. He's also taken multiple explosions, impacts with large speeding vehicles, sustained gunfire, dips in acid, exploding bullets made from alien metal etc. He's even taken an Iron Fist punch to the jaw and got up within seconds. Hell, even if we use low-ends like the shotgun, he is still more durable, as that would have killed Cap.

To look at their durability feats as a whole and conclude that Cap is more durable, you would have to be a moron.



Suit yourself, but don't say I didn't warn you.

Cap is faster in the sense that for every punch Cage laids Cap laids 2.

Iron Man is way stronger than Diamondback!!!! That isnt debatable.

The fact that Cap took it against Iron Man in a fist contest while Cage suffered to Diamondback automatically gives a point to Cap.

Cap is more durable. Ive proven my point.

Cap is also stronger. Cage isnt super strong as Iron Man is. Cage wont harm Cap as much as Iron Man did.

Cap wins.

Request mod ruling

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Luke Cage dense skin makes him more durable at a general level.

But we are talking about punches here, not missiles nor acid.

Luke is durable but not unbreakable.

And, at an overall level, Luke is more durable. Garbage trucks, at their smallest, and empty, weigh about 15 tons. Luke got hit by one that was speeding, head on, and was perfectly fine. He's taken Iron Fist punches without serious damage, and Iron Fist has several better striking feats that Iron Man.

Also, all of Cage's cells are enhanced, not just his skin. This is explicitly told to us by the doctor who gave him his powers. We also see evidence of this when Luke tries to cut inside himself at one point and bends the tip of the scalpel instead.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Enough force will easily put him down. Cap has taken it against Iron Man which is arguably stronger than any character Cage has met.

Jessica failed to put him down via force. Diamondback failed to put him down via force. Iron Fist failed to put him down via force. Gao, with her chi tk and amped strikes, failed to put him down. Barring a PIS low-end (which would have killed Steve in anyways), the times he has been KO'd was when he was drugged, or shot with an RPG and then had a building collapse on him.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

Cage had trouble against Diamondback. Cap handled Iron Man well.

Cap wins. He is stronger, and can take more fist damage than Cage. He is also faster.

The fact that i ask a question doesnt mean i cant participate in a thread. And i can always research and strengthen my points.

Cage beat Diamondback despite the fact that his suit was perfectly catered to fight someone like Cage. Cap needed Iron Man to stop attacking him, as well as distraction from Bucky, to eek out a win.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Cap is faster in the sense that for every punch Cage laids Cap laids 2.


That's not how this works. Slugfest is punch for punch.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Iron Man is way stronger than Diamondback!!!! That isnt debatable.


What screen feats does Iron Man's Civil War suit have that put him significantly above Diamondback?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The fact that Cap took it against Iron Man in a fist contest while Cage suffered to Diamondback automatically gives a point to Cap.

Only if you completely ignore the context of both fights, as well how they went.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

Cap is more durable. Ive proven my point.

Cap is also stronger. Cage isnt super strong as Iron Man is. Cage wont harm Cap as much as Iron Man did.

Cap wins.

No, you have not. You have spouted nothing but opinions.

The predator climed a tree while holding a man in one arm

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Captian Americs took several GOOD punches from Iron Man in the face without an issue.

Dont see why he couldnt handle Jason.

Iron Man was obviously holding back against Steve, he gave him like 50 million chances to surrender.

Because Jason is strong enough to cause serious damage and shrugs off injuries that would put down Steve.

Originally posted by Sable
Josh is a shitty troll

I am genuinely flabbergasted that he is arguing that Captain America is more durable than a guy who can take a direct hit (confirmed in Defenders) from a rocket launcher without sustaining any serious damage.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Iron Man was obviously holding back against Steve, he gave him like 50 million chances to surrender.

Because Jason is strong enough to cause serious damage and shrugs off injuries that would put down Steve.

Well, it's not really usable for the debate, per Imp's recent ruling, but it was confirmed by Iron Man's Civil War fight choreogapher that he would be using "minimum force" when fighting Steve. And this was months before the film even came out.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
That's not how this works. Slugfest is punch for punch.



What screen feats does Iron Man's Civil War suit have that put him significantly above Diamondback?



Only if you completely ignore the context of both fights, as well how they went.



No, you have not. You have spouted nothing but opinions.

Lol. Iron Man suit is better than Diamondback's one. Iron Man suit is stronger.

As i said, in an overall criteria, Cage is stronger.

But cage was already fainting against Diamondback. Cap got several hits by Stark and didn't even seem to felt it.

If am not mistaken Cap has regeneration too. Which means his wounds are slowly healing. Which also gives an advantage to Cap.

Am just using logic. Iron man's suit is stronger than any foe Cage has engaged. If Cap can take it against Iron Man, why would Cage make it worst?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am genuinely flabbergasted that he is arguing that Captain America is more durable than a guy who can take a direct hit (confirmed in Defenders) from a rocket launcher without sustaining any serious damage.

An explosion and a direct hit are two different things.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, it's not really usable for the debate, per Imp's recent ruling, but it was confirmed by Iron Man's Civil War fight choreogapher that he would be using "minimum force" when fighting Steve. And this was months before the film even came out.

In the last battle it was clear that Iron Man was fighting seriously. Iron Man suit can do SERIOUS damage.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Iron Man was obviously holding back against Steve, he gave him like 50 million chances to surrender.

Because Jason is strong enough to cause serious damage and shrugs off injuries that would put down Steve.

Not in the last battle. Iron Man was angry after knowing that Bucky killed his mother.

Iron Man wasn't holding back in the last fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDDeqnfRwxk

Oh and by the way, Cap took a direct blast to the chest by Iron Man and wasn't affected. Another Point for durability.

Vault owned you as I did.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Not in the last battle. Iron Man was angry after knowing that Bucky killed his mother.

Iron Man wasn't holding back in the last fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDDeqnfRwxk

Oh and by the way, Cap took a direct blast to the chest by Iron Man and wasn't affected. Another Point for durability.

Yes, in the last battle. Tony didn't even use a fraction of his arsenal against Steve.

Repulsor beam strength can be dialed back.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, it's not really usable for the debate, per Imp's recent ruling, but it was confirmed by Iron Man's Civil War fight choreogapher that he would be using "minimum force" when fighting Steve. And this was months before the film even came out.

It would be absurdly out of character for Tony to try to kill Steve.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Yes, in the last battle. Tony didn't even use a fraction of his arsenal against Steve.

Repulsor beam strength can be dialed back.



It would be absurdly out of character for Tony to try to kill Steve.

Okay i could give you the "Tony didn't want to kill Cap" argument.

But in a way, Cap was being an obstacle. Tony wanted to put Cap Down.

He hit cap several times, with force arguably enough to K.O in one hit any normal person.

Okay, i will back it down, just cause Cage's skin is ****ING HARD.

Cap vs Cage: 5/5

Both have taken a lot. It would be a matter of which one gets tired first.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Lol. Iron Man suit is better than Diamondback's one. Iron Man suit is stronger.


Then prove it. Post screen feats that prove that the Civil War suit massively outclasses Diamondback in strength and striking power. Because Tony's suits vary in power. By feats, his IM 1 suit is much stronger and more durable than his Civil War suit. So, if you want to claim that specific suit was stronger, you need to use onscreen showings from that movie.


Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

As i said, in an overall criteria, Cage is stronger.

His blunt force durability is also better, based on having better feats in every category. Now, post feats of Cap shrugging off punches so hard they cause shockwaves, or stop this.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

But cage was already fainting against Diamondback. Cap got several hits by Stark and didn't even seem to felt it.

No, he wasn't. One or two really hard blows dazed him temporarily but, other than a little blood on his lip at the end of the fight, he was uninjured at the end of the fight. In comparison, Steve was bloody and staggering out of his fight with Tony.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

If am not mistaken Cap has regeneration too. Which means his wounds are slowly healing. Which also gives an advantage to Cap.

Cap has an enhanced metabolism, which can improve recovery time. But the best example we have seen of it involved him being unable to get drunk. Furthermore, Luke also has an enhanced healing factor, which is explicitly shown to us in his show. Seriously, did you actually watch the show, or just Youtube some clips? Because you seem ignorant of a lot of info here.


Originally posted by Josh_Alexander


Am just using logic. Iron man's suit is stronger than any foe Cage has engaged. If Cap can take it against Iron Man, why would Cage make it worst?

That is terrible logic. The movie made it obvious that Tony was not going all out, and when he wanted to, he beat the crap out of Steve. And again, post actual feats of Tony's Civil War suit hitting harder than Danny, or concede the point.


Originally posted by Josh_Alexander


An explosion and a direct hit are two different things.


Both involved kinetic energy. Explosions just have things like heat and light as well.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

In the last battle it was clear that Iron Man was fighting seriously. Iron Man suit can do SERIOUS damage.


Not in the last battle. Iron Man was angry after knowing that Bucky killed his mother.

Iron Man wasn't holding back in the last fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDDeqnfRwxk

Oh and by the way, Cap took a direct blast to the chest by Iron Man and wasn't affected. Another Point for durability.

Yes, in the final fight he held back against Steve. This is made obvious by his constant use of non-lethal force, and him literally stopping his beat down of Steve, and asking him to stand down when he had him at his mercy.

That single repulsor blast put Steve down long enough for Iron Man to take out Bucky. So yes, he was clearly affected. And are you actually trying to suggest a repulsor blast from a holding back Tony is greater than Luke standing inside his bar as the whole thing blew up, and then proceeded to walk out of without any injury whatsoever, or an SUV or garbage truck slamming into him without taking damage?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He hit cap several times, with force arguably enough to K.O in one hit any normal person.

Okay, i will back it down, just cause Cage's skin is ****ING HARD.


And Luke Cage can hit hard enough that he can KO regular people with slaps and taps on the head. Which tells you how much harder his full-on punches would be. But if you are going to continue this shtick, post clips of Civil War Iron Man hitting this hard:

At 1:37 here:

rZPdQ3EP-NA

or at 1:55 here:

riZkKCO20sU

Then once you show Civil War Iron Man hitting that hard, show him hitting Steve that hard. And then show Steve recovering from said hits as quickly as Luke did.

Originally posted by Psychotron
It would be absurdly out of character for Tony to try to kill Steve.

Yeah, I know. And, actually, thinking about, Imp's post specified interviews etc. that came after the fact IIRC (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). That interview came out in like October 2015, several months before Civil War dropped. So, I guess, technically, it kind of counts here.

Oh, also Josh? After you post the Iron Man feats I requested, why don't you post an instance where this happens when a normal human punches Cap in the face, at 0:42:

VgPxeuMNbyg

This further also highlights how powerful the Iron Fist punches are, seeing as a regular person broke their hand and arm while attempting the same.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Take turns hitting each other untill one drops

Who wins each (out of 10)

Batman
Batman (BVS))
Black Panther (No suit)
Jason Vorhees
The Winter Soldier
Engineer
Predator
Luke Cage

Jason, WS, and Luke Cage wins

Engineer and Predator are debatable.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Then prove it. Post screen feats that prove that the Civil War suit massively outclasses Diamondback in strength and striking power. Because Tony's suits vary in power. By feats, his IM 1 suit is much stronger and more durable than his Civil War suit. So, if you want to claim that specific suit was stronger, you need to use onscreen showings from that movie.




His blunt force durability is also better, based on having better feats in every category. Now, post feats of Cap shrugging off punches so hard they cause shockwaves, or stop this.



No, he wasn't. One or two really hard blows dazed him temporarily but, other than a little blood on his lip at the end of the fight, he was uninjured at the end of the fight. In comparison, Steve was bloody and staggering out of his fight with Tony.



Cap has an enhanced metabolism, which can improve recovery time. But the best example we have seen of it involved him being unable to get drunk. Furthermore, Luke also has an enhanced healing factor, which is explicitly shown to us in his show. Seriously, did you actually watch the show, or just Youtube some clips? Because you seem ignorant of a lot of info here.




That is terrible logic. The movie made it obvious that Tony was not going all out, and when he wanted to, he beat the crap out of Steve. And again, post actual feats of Tony's Civil War suit hitting harder than Danny, or concede the point.




Both involved kinetic energy. Explosions just have things like heat and light as well.



Yes, in the final fight he held back against Steve. This is made obvious by his constant use of non-lethal force, and him literally stopping his beat down of Steve, and asking him to stand down when he had him at his mercy.

That single repulsor blast put Steve down long enough for Iron Man to take out Bucky. So yes, he was clearly affected. And are you actually trying to suggest a repulsor blast from a holding back Tony is greater than Luke standing inside his bar as the whole thing blew up, and then proceeded to walk out of without any injury whatsoever, or an SUV or garbage truck slamming into him without taking damage?

I FEEL INSULTED NOW!!!!!

You really want to Debate Iron Man being stronger than Diamondback!!??? ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS NOW?

As i said, Cage is more durable overall.

But when we talk about contact damage Id put them in par.

Okay? Lets say they are even in durability. Cap took several hits from Stark without problem, that proves his durability (DONT come pretending Tony was playing with Cap! BE LOGICAL! Those were some serious hits).

Okay so durabilitywise they are 5/5.

But Cap has better regeneration and is STRONGER!

Cage is strong but not SUPER strong as Cap. That gives an edge to Cap.

Cage received an Iron hit without issue, Cap received an Iron hit from Iron Man's fist. So that puts them even.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I FEEL INSULTED NOW!!!!!

You really want to Debate Iron Man being stronger than Diamondback!!??? ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS NOW?

Yes, because you still do not seem to understand how things work here. We debate here using screen feats. You seem to be hung up on comic book portrayals. Unless Iron Man's Civil War suit actually has screen feats that put him significantly above Diamondback, any claims of it being the case remains unproven. Especially since Diamondback himself showed the ability to easily one-hit kill humans (even ones wearing body armour) using the same gear he fought Luke with.

We debate via feats here. You refusing to do so is avoiding the burden of proof. Which is breaking the rules.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

As i said, Cage is more durable overall.

But when we talk about contact damage Id put them in par.

Okay? Lets say they are even in durability. Cap took several hits from Stark without problem, that proves his durability (DONT come pretending Tony was playing with Cap! BE LOGICAL! Those were some serious hits).

Okay so durabilitywise they are 5/5.


Then post the feats I asked for. I posted Luke taking hits better than any Steve has. I posted a person literally breaking their arm punching him. Again, what you are doing now is called dodging and avoiding the burden of proof on your claims.

And no one used the word "playing". Stop strawmanning people and misrepresenting their statements. But the film itself, and articles that were released even before the film was, confirmed Iron Man would not be going all out against Steve. This is fact, as confirmed both inside the film and out.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

But Cap has better regeneration and is STRONGER!

Cage is strong but not SUPER strong as Cap. That gives an edge to Cap.

Cage received an Iron hit without issue, Cap received an Iron hit from Iron Man's fist. So that puts them even.

Again, Luke Cage has regeneration that actually has better onscreen showings than Cap's.

Again, post the feats of Iron Man hitting Cap that match the Iron Fist strikes, or you are just spouting opinion.

Hold up... Did you just claim that Cage does not have super strength? Okay, it's official. You have no idea what you are talking about here, and any further attempts to engage you on this top is just a waste of my time.

It says a lot that H1 is being more reasonable in this thread than Josh is.

Fun fact, Josh? No one who does not have a significant level of blatant superhuman strength could do what Cage does from the 40 second mark onward. And that is just one feat among dozens that confirm it.

jcHaM5tckjc

Also, while strength is debatable depending on how we look at some feats, Luke clearly has better bare-fisted striking power. He has multiple striking feats that are more comparable to Winter Soldier's metal arm than Cap's arms. He is literally strong enough that he can KO people via slaps/taps:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/117031/5465724-boop.gif

https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/BlackUnlawfulAustraliankestrel

Then here, at around the 1:17 mark:

dsXG-AQqt2M

And here, again, at the 0:30 odd mark, and at the 0:50 odd mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fI2dv8731U

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yes, because you still do not seem to understand how things work here. We debate here using screen feats. You seem to be hung up on comic book portrayals. Unless Iron Man's Civil War suit actually has screen feats that put him significantly above Diamondback, any claims of it being the case remains unproven. Especially since Diamondback himself showed the ability to easily one-hit kill humans (even ones wearing body armour) using the same gear he fought Luke with.

We debate via feats here. You refusing to do so is avoiding the burden of proof. Which is breaking the rules.



Then post the feats I asked for. I posted Luke taking hits better than any Steve has. I posted a person literally breaking their arm punching him. Again, what you are doing now is called dodging and avoiding the burden of proof on your claims.

And no one used the word "playing". Stop strawmanning people and misrepresenting their statements. But the film itself, and articles that were released even before the film was, confirmed Iron Man would not be going all out against Steve. This is fact, as confirmed both inside the film and out.



Again, Luke Cage has regeneration that actually has better onscreen showings than Cap's.

Again, post the feats of Iron Man hitting Cap that match the Iron Fist strikes, or you are just spouting opinion.

Hold up... Did you just claim that Cage does not have super strength? Okay, it's official. You have no idea what you are talking about here, and any further attempts to engage you on this top is just a waste of my time.

Bahahahaha. Lol. I thought you were more reasonable. I didn't thought it necessary for me to EVEN ARGUE WHAT IS EVIDENT!!!! But i guess not everyone is logical, so am gonna have to prove you that Iron Man is stronger than Diamondback (WHICH IS PRETTY OBVIOUS WHO IS STRONGER!).

Who is stronger Diamondback or Luke Cage? Just answer the question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ccey7IJLCM

It is a feat CAGE COULD NEVER DO. There, more evidence so you stop wailing.

Screen Feats prove Iron Man was fighting Cap, they were never PLAYING or HUGGING each other. Stop BEING IGNORANT. Are you saying Iron Man's hits aren't superhuman? LOL, so who is the one having poor sense of logic here?

Lol. The Supersoldier syrup puts CAP on the peak of human abilities. Cap has better regeneration than Cage. Cage superstrong skin makes in impenetrable but as seen when penetrated by the Judas Bullets. Cage didn't heal as fast.

Lol, the fact that you think Cage is stronger than Cap is evidence that you don't know what you are talking about. The fact that you think that DIAMONDBACK is stronger than Iron Man is proof that you CLEARLY DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It says a lot that H1 is being more reasonable in this thread than Josh is.

HAHAHA. Sure it's not you the one being unreasonable here?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, while strength is debatable depending on how we look at some feats, Luke clearly has better bare-fisted striking power. He has multiple striking feats that are more comparable to Winter Soldier's metal arm than Cap's arms. He is literally strong enough that he can KO people via slaps/taps:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/117031/5465724-boop.gif

https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/BlackUnlawfulAustraliankestrel

Then here, at around the 1:17 mark:

dsXG-AQqt2M

And here, again, at the 0:30 odd mark, and at the 0:50 odd mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fI2dv8731U

Not enough to beat cap.

Not near enough to stop a Helicopter!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Not enough to beat cap.

Not near enough to stop a Helicopter!

Cap has never once KO'd someone onscreen via a slap. He also does not routinely punch through things like concrete or steel, unlike Cage. Your personal opinion about the helicopter feat is completely irrelevant to a slugfest match, as this is a punching competition. Cage's actual punching feats put him on at least equal grounds to Cap. Which, again, you would know if you had watched all the relevant footage.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Bahahahaha. Lol. I thought you were more reasonable. I didn't thought it necessary for me to EVEN ARGUE WHAT IS EVIDENT!!!! But i guess not everyone is logical, so am gonna have to prove you that Iron Man is stronger than Diamondback (WHICH IS PRETTY OBVIOUS WHO IS STRONGER!).

So, no actual feats to back your claim. Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

Who is stronger Diamondback or Luke Cage? Just answer the question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ccey7IJLCM

It is a feat CAGE COULD NEVER DO. There, more evidence so you stop wailing.


Luke is stronger at base, but Diamondback's suit allows him to surpass Cage after storing enough energy. Which you would know if you watched the whole show, instead of being a youtube surfer.

Some of Luke's strength feats, like the SUV stop, crumpling solid steel like tinfoil etc. put him in the same strength category than Steve. Which you would actually know if you knew how to quantify things.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

Screen Feats prove Iron Man was fighting Cap, they were never PLAYING or HUGGING each other. Stop BEING IGNORANT. Are you saying Iron Man's hits aren't superhuman? LOL, so who is the one having poor sense of logic here?

And more strawmanning. I never said they were playing. I never said they were hugging. I never said Iron Man's hits are not superhuman. You are making this shit up to try and discredit me, but all you are doing is hurting yourself. Because it shows that you can't address my actual posts, so you make up shit to attack instead. I simply said Iron Man was not going all out, which is supported by what we see in the film, as well as what his actual fight choreographer said before the movie even came out. What you are basically saying with this is that you think you know better than one of the guys who actually worked on the fight scene in question. Which is so arrogant of you that it boggles the mind. So, epic fail on your part.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Lol. The Supersoldier syrup puts CAP on the peak of human abilities. Cap has better regeneration than Cage. Cage superstrong skin makes in impenetrable but as seen when penetrated by the Judas Bullets. Cage didn't heal as fast.

Again, all of Cage's cells are enhanced. Not just his skin. This is shown and told to us onscree. Cage fully recovered from two alien bullets exploding inside his chest, past his skin layer, over about the course of a day. Cap has no onscreen regeneration feats above that.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Lol, the fact that you think Cage is stronger than Cap is evidence that you don't know what you are talking about. The fact that you think that DIAMONDBACK is stronger than Iron Man is proof that you CLEARLY DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

And yet even more strawmanning and lying. I said strength is debatable depending on what feats you look at. And a recent thread confirmed that a lot of KMC'ers agree. And I never once said Diamondback is stronger than Iron Man either. I told you to prove your claim that Iron Man is vastly stronger than Diamondback. I made no claims about it in return. And you blatantly refused , despite the burden of proof being on you.

So, to sum up:
- You have shown an extreme lack of knowledge on Luke Cage feats.
- You keep spouting opinion and ignoring the context of the Iron Man and Luke Cage fights, despite it being obvious.
- You refuse to post feats that match the striking ones I posted for Luke and Iron Fist, or the ones to prove your Diamondback claim.
- You strawman my statements and make up things I never said to try and ridicule me.
- You either ignore or gloss over any point I raise that doesn't suit you.

In return:
- I have posted striking feats for Cage that are at least an equal to Steve, and some that are better.
- I have shown Cage shake off hits better than any Steve has, and provided the proper context for the Diamondback fight.

I have been debating via forum rules, by posting screen evidence for any claim I make. But it's obvious that you have no real interest in a fair debate here, and you don't even seem to know enough to properly debate in anyways. Also, as shown by every other poster who commented on it, you are the only one giving Cap the win over Cage.

But, no, sure. We're all ignorant and have no clue what we are talking about, but the guy who didn't even seem to know about the Iron Fist punches, Luke's healing, or that all of Luke's physiology is enhanced etc. is the only one who knows what they are talking about. He even knows better than the people who actually made the movies. /sarcasm

Feel free to get the last word in. I won't reply. Because, if this post of yours was anything to go by, I'd be wasting my time.

To TheVaultDweller and any other person who things i am being irrational by supporting Cap Here:

Here are my points along with evidence to support them (Since some of you lack logic and force me to go do extra work to bring evidence).

1. Captain America's Super Strenght.

Captain America's Supersoldier Syrup makes him one of the strongest biological humans in marvel (Biological and Humans since heroes like Thor which isn't human or Iron Man or Bucky which have technology don't count in this criteria). Captain Amarican in both Films and Comics has shown exceptional feats of superstrenght.

Evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ccey7IJLCM

Holding a Helicopter is a feat of SUPERSTRENGHT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP8l6J_H38g

A complete video of all Captain Amarica's fight. Clearly showing how strong he is. He is seen in several instances tossing people and even Ultron's Robots like nothing. He also uses his shield to toss people several feet away (He needs superstrenght for that).

Now, this is specially for all of you which are still skeptical of how STRONG captain america is (TheVaultDweller you clearly don't know what you were talking about).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKucyFap_KE&t=65s

There a video with Actual Movie feats, Scientific research, and a TON of research proving how strong Cap is.

(If anyone still things Cage is stronger, then your are ****ing retarded!!! I still expect TheVaultDweller to come with his irrationality though).


2. Captain America's endurance

Captain America is just as durable as he is strong. He has taken multiple shots, hits, and supported things no other human could ever dream of lasting.

Evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG0VMbcwshA

Taking multiple direct hits from Iron Man, who is clearly angry after knowing that her mother died to Bucky (Clearly Stark was in no mood for not hitting lightly. I still expect TheVaultDweller to come with his ignorance saying those weren't some serious hits). We see Cap not even bothered by Titanium striking his face.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wDAWj9SYYA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VEBRrUp0vg

Getting multiple SERIOUS HITS from Bucky's bionic arm. Getting shot and stabbed. Falling from great heights. Man, if anyone still doubt's how DURABLE Cap is, then you are ****ing RETARDED! (Should i excepct TheVaultDweller to come saying Bucky wasn't hitting Cap seriously now!!!!!!?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT3odor8t9I

Extra evidence. Cap falls from a 2 level building right into a car The Car's roof gets smashed, however Cap survives it.

Also important to note that Cap's enhanced regeneration aids him to heal faster and to endure more.

(This is specially for TheVauldDweller who blasfemed when he dared to say that Diamondback is stronger than Iron Man. )

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Man_Armor:_Mark_XLVI

The Mark XLVI is the suit that Iron Man used in Civil War. As described by the MCU wiki the Suit was able to overmatch the Winter Soldier's prostectic arm.

So Iron Man>Winter soldier prostetic arm. (Keep that in mind).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srAQftsiiaM

Clearly stated that Winter Soldier's prostetic arm makes him stronger than Captain America.

Considering how strong Cap is, it is clear that Iron Man's suit is ****ing strong. (Iron Man > Cap in strenght levels).

Conclusion:

I don't doubt Cap has a chance of beating anyone on this list. However i still respect everyone's opinion.

has a chance of beating anyone on this list. However i still respect everyone's opinion.

I hope this information is useful for all of you to better understand how strong Captain America really is, and how much he can take

To TheVaultDweller: Now bring me evidence along with your points why you think Cage is stronger than Cap, cause until now it's clear you don't know what you were talking about.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
To TheVaultDweller and any other person who things i am being irrational by supporting Cap Here:

Here are my points along with evidence to support them (Since some of you lack logic and force me to go do extra work to bring evidence).

1. Captain America's Super Strenght.

Captain America's Supersoldier Syrup makes him one of the strongest biological humans in marvel (Biological and Humans since heroes like Thor which isn't human or Iron Man or Bucky which have technology don't count in this criteria). Captain Amarican in both Films and Comics has shown exceptional feats of superstrenght.

Evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ccey7IJLCM

Holding a Helicopter is a feat of SUPERSTRENGHT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP8l6J_H38g

A complete video of all Captain Amarica's fight. Clearly showing how strong he is. He is seen in several instances tossing people and even Ultron's Robots like nothing. He also uses his shield to toss people several feet away (He needs superstrenght for that).

Now, this is specially for all of you which are still skeptical of how STRONG captain america is (TheVaultDweller you clearly don't know what you were talking about).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKucyFap_KE&t=65s

There a video with Actual Movie feats, Scientific research, and a TON of research proving how strong Cap is.

(If anyone still things Cage is stronger, then your are ****ing retarded!!! I still expect TheVaultDweller to come with his irrationality though).


2. Captain America's endurance

Captain America is just as durable as he is strong. He has taken multiple shots, hits, and supported things no other human could ever dream of lasting.

Evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG0VMbcwshA

Taking multiple direct hits from Iron Man, who is clearly angry after knowing that her mother died to Bucky (Clearly Stark was in no mood for not hitting lightly. I still expect TheVaultDweller to come with his ignorance saying those weren't some serious hits). We see Cap not even bothered by Titanium striking his face.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wDAWj9SYYA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VEBRrUp0vg

Getting multiple SERIOUS HITS from Bucky's bionic arm. Getting shot and stabbed. Falling from great heights. Man, if anyone still doubt's how DURABLE Cap is, then you are ****ing RETARDED! (Should i excepct TheVaultDweller to come saying Bucky wasn't hitting Cap seriously now!!!!!!?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT3odor8t9I

Extra evidence. Cap falls from a 2 level building right into a car The Car's roof gets smashed, however Cap survives it.

Also important to note that Cap's enhanced regeneration aids him to heal faster and to endure more.

(This is specially for TheVauldDweller who blasfemed when he dared to say that Diamondback is stronger than Iron Man. )

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Man_Armor:_Mark_XLVI

The Mark XLVI is the suit that Iron Man used in Civil War. As described by the MCU wiki the Suit was able to overmatch the Winter Soldier's prostectic arm.

So Iron Man>Winter soldier prostetic arm. (Keep that in mind).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srAQftsiiaM

Clearly stated that Winter Soldier's prostetic arm makes him stronger than Captain America.

Considering how strong Cap is, it is clear that Iron Man's suit is ****ing strong. (Iron Man > Cap in strenght levels).

Conclusion:

I don't doubt Cap has a chance of beating anyone on this list. However i still respect everyone's opinion.

has a chance of beating anyone on this list. However i still respect everyone's opinion.

I hope this information is useful for all of you to better understand how strong Captain America really is, and how much he can take

To TheVaultDweller: Now bring me evidence along with your points why you think Cage is stronger than Cap, cause until now it's clear you don't know what you were talking about.

Oh, look, yet another long strawman. Because I never claimed that Cap is not superhuman. And throwing in even more nonsense strawmen along the line (such as your Bucky punching comment). Funny how you try to act all innocent, yet add little jabs and comments to your post that are clearly meant to bait the other person. And it's absolutely hilarious how you seem to think you are showing people something they haven't seen before with those clips.

And, news flash, Luke Cage is also superhuman. And he has striking and durability feats that either match or exceed Cap's. I have already referenced and posted multiple. And a slugfest is tailored to Luke's strength's whereas it negates a lot of Cap's (such as speed, agility and fighting skill). That is why literally everyone else here has sided with Cage instead of Cap.

So, as far as I am concerned, we're done here. Majority backs Cage over Cap, no matter how much you cry.

And, BTW, using wikis as arguments is another violation of MvF rules.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Oh, look, yet another long strawman. Because I never claimed that Cap is not superhuman. And throwing in even more nonsense strawmen along the line (such as your Bucky punching comment). Funny how you try to act all innocent, yet add little jabs and comments to your post that are clearly meant to bait the other person. And it's absolutely hilarious how you seem to think you are showing people something they haven't seen before with those clips.

And, news flash, Luke Cage is also superhuman. And he has striking and durability feats that either match or exceed Cap's. I have already referenced and posted multiple. And a slugfest is tailored to Luke's strength's whereas it negates a lot of Cap's (such as speed, agility and fighting skill). That is why literally everyone else here has sided with Cage instead of Cap.

So, as far as I am concerned, we're done here. Majority backs Cage over Cap, no matter how much you cry.

And, BTW, using wikis as arguments is another violation of MvF rules.

It's clear you are being personal here TheVaultDweller.

I bring you evidence and your respond by bringing personal comments and playing victim.

Cap is stronger than Cage, whether you like it or not.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller


And, BTW, using wikis as arguments is another violation of MvF rules.

MVF rules :

Your Ignorance has been noted TheVaultDweller.

Do yourself a favor and go inform yourself.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller


So, as far as I am concerned, we're done here. Majority backs Cage over Cap, no matter how much you cry.



Now it's clear you have no arguments to fight mines.

You have lost the discussion. Until you can bring stronger evidence, my points are valid.

As i said, I respect everyone's opinion

More like no patience

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
MVF rules :

Your Ignorance has been noted TheVaultDweller.

Do yourself a favor and go inform yourself.

Okay, seeing as you do not grasp the point, let me clarify. The key words there are "use them wisely". A wiki page itself is not a source. You can however use the wiki page to look up other sources, such as when they have specific feats listed in the footnotes, referencing when they actually occur. Because things like the MCU wiki pages themselves get edited by various fans who run the site all the time, and mistakes sometimes occur. I remember that same MCU wiki for a brief time had enhanced senses listed as one of Luke Cage's powers.

Because, after all, if it's actually accurate, it should be easy to point out the actual screen feats in question, instead of a wiki article. And you are going to have a hard time convincing anyone here to accept the word of a wiki page without an onscreen reference to support it.

I mean, hell, just look at that site's MCU Cap page. In the powers, under reflexes, have things written like, "His auto-reflexes allow him to easily dodge gunfire", with a reference to when this actually happened conspicuously absent. Cap is fast, but he's hardly what you would call a casual bullet timer.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
More like no patience

This.

And until he stops his strawman antics, I am not going to bother engaging him in any discussions again.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Okay, seeing as you do not grasp the point, let me clarify. The key words there are "use them wisely". A wiki page itself is not a source. You can however use the wiki page to look up other sources, such as when they have specific feats listed in the footnotes, referencing when they actually occur. Because things like the MCU wiki pages themselves get edited by various fans who run the site all the time, and mistakes sometimes occur. I remember that same MCU wiki for a brief time had enhanced senses listed as one of Luke Cage's powers.

Because, after all, if it's actually accurate, it should be easy to point out the actual screen feats in question, instead of a wiki article. And you are going to have a hard time convincing anyone here to accept the word of a wiki page without an onscreen reference to support it.

I mean, hell, just look at that site's MCU Cap page. In the powers, under reflexes, have things written like, "His auto-reflexes allow him to easily dodge gunfire", with a reference to when this actually happened conspicuously absent. Cap is fast, but he's hardly what you would call a casual bullet timer.



This.

And until he stops his strawman antics, I am not going to bother engaging him in any discussions again.

In which instance haven't i used them wisely?

The Youtube videos I presented had Valid evidence themselves. They are not strong evidence, but is better than anything you have give so far!

My points have clearly been supported.

But as i said before, i accept your opinion

Oh, and don't bother, isn't like i wish to keep discussing what i've already won.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
In which instance haven't i used them wisely?

So, you don't even have enough common sense to realise what sources are valid and what aren't? You can't differentiate between fan statements that need references and actual screen footage?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The Youtube videos I presented had Valid evidence themselves. They are not strong evidence, but is better than anything you have give so far!


False, as nothing you posted topped the feats I listed for Luke's durability, or the striking feats from him or Iron Fist. Iron Fist has wrecked the entire floor of a skyscraper with a single punch. Iron Man has never done that.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

My points have clearly been supported.

But as i said before, i accept your opinion

Oh, and don't bother, isn't like i wish to keep discussing what i've already won.

You haven't won shit lol. All you have done with this thread is lower your credibility even further. If you had been more reasonable up until this point, I would have actually made an effort to post vids of the SUV/garbage truck impacts, given stats on what the vehicles weigh (according to the internet movie vehicle database and other sources), I would have pointed out how steel has a tensile strength of around 40,000 PSI per square inch, and how Luke can casually bend solid gun barrels and things like tinfoil, which suggests that he exerts way more than that. I would have posted actual calcs to show just how powerful the rocket launcher impact from Luke Cage's own show was. Because those things are available.

But why should I? When you have shown repeatedly that you have zero qualms about being dishonest and changing the wording of my statements to misrepresent their meaning. Because there is actually a word for that. It is called creating strawmen. Which is considered a shitty and dishonest debating tactic. And until you get out of that habit, I have no time left for you.

He's always been dishonest. like in the other thread he is basically arguing that a statement from one universe trumps actual onscreen feats from another universe.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He's always been dishonest. like in the other thread he is basically arguing that a statement from one universe trumps actual onscreen feats from another universe.

To be fair, I do actually think that Imp is being a bit inconsistent with this one overall. If he ruled against things like the tectonic plate feat from BvS in the past, I fail to see how character statements from people who clearly aren't omniscient (and definitely are not aware of the other universe being discussed in the debate) hold any water at all. Of course, that's assuming Josh has been honest about his whole interaction with Imp.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
To be fair, I do actually think that Imp is being a bit inconsistent with this one overall. If he ruled against things like the tectonic plate feat from BvS in the past, I fail to see how character statements from people who clearly aren't omniscient (and definitely are not aware of the other universe being discussed in the debate) hold any water at all. Of course, that's assuming Josh has been honest about his whole interaction with Imp.

I think it's more Josh being dishonest. it's why he went the PM route instead of accepting my challenge. He didn't want IMP to see both sides of the argument and make an informed decision.

The PM's show he straight up ignored the meat of the argument and asked if "Statements are allowed". Which, I get his reasoning in saying yes, as the rest of the question wasn't asked. Without context, it could be worded like, "Tony Stark says Vibranium is the strongest metal around." And then it's proven to be. A feat compliments a statement. But he ignored all that so Imp would give the answer he wanted.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Take turns hitting each other untill one drops

Who wins each (out of 10)

Batman
Batman (BVS))
Black Panther (No suit)
Jason Vorhees
The Winter Soldier
Engineer
Predator
Luke Cage

Stops at Batman.

Originally posted by cdtm
Stops at Batman.

He stops at Nolanverse Batman? On the first match? Get the f*ck out.

Originally posted by KingD19
The PM's show he straight up ignored the meat of the argument and asked if "Statements are allowed". Which, I get his reasoning in saying yes, as the rest of the question wasn't asked. Without context, it could be worded like, "Tony Stark says Vibranium is the strongest metal around." And then it's proven to be. A feat compliments a statement. But he ignored all that so Imp would give the answer he wanted.

Which is exactly what I said he'd do.

Originally posted by Silent Master
10 to 1 says you phrased the question in such way to get the answer you want. Nobody trusts you.

Even though it should be obvious, I am also going to clarify that when I said bend steel and things like tinfoil, I meant as if the objects in question were tinfoil. I know most people have enough common sense to realise that no one in their right mind would list bending actual tinfoil as a strength feat, but I can't be sure with Josh.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
So, you don't even have enough common sense to realise what sources are valid and what aren't? You can't differentiate between fan statements that need references and actual screen footage?



False, as nothing you posted topped the feats I listed for Luke's durability, or the striking feats from him or Iron Fist. Iron Fist has wrecked the entire floor of a skyscraper with a single punch. Iron Man has never done that.



You haven't won shit lol. All you have done with this thread is lower your credibility even further. If you had been more reasonable up until this point, I would have actually made an effort to post vids of the SUV/garbage truck impacts, given stats on what the vehicles weigh (according to the internet movie vehicle database and other sources), I would have pointed out how steel has a tensile strength of around 40,000 PSI per square inch, and how Luke can casually bend solid gun barrels and things like tinfoil, which suggests that he exerts way more than that. I would have posted actual calcs to show just how powerful the rocket launcher impact from Luke Cage's own show was. Because those things are available.

But why should I? When you have shown repeatedly that you have zero qualms about being dishonest and changing the wording of my statements to misrepresent their meaning. Because there is actually a word for that. It is called creating strawmen. Which is considered a shitty and dishonest debating tactic. And until you get out of that habit, I have no time left for you.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I think it's more Josh being dishonest. it's why he went the PM route instead of accepting my challenge. He didn't want IMP to see both sides of the argument and make an informed decision.

Originally posted by KingD19
The PM's show he straight up ignored the meat of the argument and asked if "Statements are allowed". Which, I get his reasoning in saying yes, as the rest of the question wasn't asked. Without context, it could be worded like, "Tony Stark says Vibranium is the strongest metal around." And then it's proven to be. A feat compliments a statement. But he ignored all that so Imp would give the answer he wanted.

It's clear both of you are too stupid to debate with.

@TheVaultDweller

All you have done so far is use personal comments. You have showed no evidence nor viable information to trumpcard my points (Last time i check personal comments aren't viable for debating).

Until now, you've not debated, you've attacked. Therefore it's not longer worthy to keep arguing with you

Cheerio!

He's shown plenty of evidence.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He's shown plenty of evidence.

No he hasnt.

You ignoring his evidence isn't the same as him not posting any.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You ignoring his evidence isn't the same as him not posting any.

No. How can i ignore something he hasn't given.

I outlined and evidenced my points. He has used personal comments to attack them, which isn't debating.

So, until he can bring competent stronger evidence, my points are still up.

See above

Originally posted by Silent Master
See above

U 2.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
It's clear both of you are too stupid to debate with.

@TheVaultDweller

All you have done so far is use personal comments. You have showed no evidence nor viable information to trumpcard my points (Last time i check personal comments aren't viable for debating).

Until now, you've not debated, you've attacked. Therefore it's not longer worthy to keep arguing with you

Cheerio!

Okay, so you are just going to drop all pretenses about being honest now? Or about "respecting" everyone else's opinion (hint, if you are going to claim something like that, don't try to bait, ridicule, strawman and insult people you disagree with. It's kind of a giveaway that you are full of it).

I have posted multiple striking feats for Luke, either via clips or references. as well as durability feats. I have mentioned other examples of Iron Fist strikes, and the damage they can do, as well as mentioned how Diamondback killed normal humans with regular punches onscreen. I have pointed out how none of those guys, as well as people like Jessica Jones, could manage to KO Luke via brute force. I also posted how, as things stand, it has taken things like a rocket launcher or being drugged to KO him. I have mentioned a bunch of the other feats as well, relating to him, that put more vague things into a more clear context, and provided extra info about his powers given onscreen etc. such as the comments by the guy who actually gave him his powers, confirming that all his cells are enhanced.

So, yes. I have shown plenty of viable evidence and information. You claiming I have not is a blatant lie that is obvious to any person who actually takes the time to read through this thread. So, this is the last time I am responding to you in any thread. You're going on Ignore. Because I have no interest in someone who doesn't seem to think there is anything wrong with continuously being dishonest.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Okay, so you are just going to drop all pretenses about being honest now? Or about "respecting" everyone else's opinion (hint, if you are going to claim something like that, don't try to bait, ridicule, strawman and insult people you disagree with. It's kind of a giveaway that you are full of it).

I have posted multiple striking feats for Luke, either via clips or references. as well as durability feats. I have mentioned other examples of Iron Fist strikes, and the damage they can do, as well as mentioned how Diamondback killed normal humans with regular punches onscreen. I have pointed out how none of those guys, as well as people like Jessica Jones, could manage to KO Luke via brute force. I also posted how, as things stand, it has taken things like a rocket launcher or being drugged to KO him. I have mentioned a bunch of the other feats as well, relating to him, that put more vague things into a more clear context, and provided extra info about his powers given onscreen etc. such as the comments by the guy who actually gave him his powers, confirming that all his cells are enhanced.

So, yes. I have shown plenty of viable evidence and information. You claiming I have not is a blatant lie that is obvious to any person who actually takes the time to read through this thread. So, this is the last time I am responding to you in any thread. You're going on Ignore. Because I have no interest in someone who doesn't seem to think there is anything wrong with continuously being dishonest.

I've trumpcard the points you have given by showing you that A). Cap is stronger than Cage. B). Cap is as durable or more than Cage. and C). Cap beats Cage based on facts not personal opinions.

All you've done so far is to wail and wail and wail. Until you debate seriously, i will just ignore your posts.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Take turns hitting each other untill one drops

Who wins each (out of 10)

Batman
Batman (BVS))
Black Panther (No suit)
Jason Vorhees
The Winter Soldier
Engineer
Predator
Luke Cage

Gets to Cage but then it gets tricky. Cage has better hard durability but Steve has superior damage soak probably. Strength is hard to say. Steve is outright superior based on feats but Cage is blatantly very very strong. Then again Steve is in a world contending with a lot greater power. In this scene where he grabs and throws Ultron through that highway pillar is a greater feat than anything Cage has done imo:
https://youtu.be/cg1rtWXHSKU

I don't know if he could get past Bucky. Bucky' stats might be slightly below Steve's but that Metal arm more than makes up for that...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Gets to Cage but then it gets tricky. Cage has better hard durability but Steve has superior damage soak probably. Strength is hard to say. Steve is outright superior based on feats but Cage is blatantly very very strong. Then again Steve is in a world contending with a lot greater power. In this scene where he grabs and throws Ultron through that highway pillar is a greater feat than anything Cage has done imo:
https://youtu.be/cg1rtWXHSKU

I don't know if he could get past Bucky. Bucky' stats might be slightly below Steve's but that Metal arm more than makes up for that... Cage is significantly stronger than Cap. Highway pillar feat isn't that impressive. Especially considering the truck had initial momentum, Ultron is very hard (like using a sledgehammer with added momentum).

Luke CASUALLY bending metal guns is superior to anything Cap has done.

Cap would hurt his hand on Cage while Cage remains undamaged.

Cap threw Ultron the opposite direction of the truck though so if anything the fear is even more impressive.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Supersoldier Syrup

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/choofed.gif

Originally posted by h1a8
Cage is significantly stronger than Cap. Highway pillar feat isn't that impressive. Especially considering the truck had initial momentum, Ultron is very hard (like using a sledgehammer with added momentum).

Luke CASUALLY bending metal guns is superior to anything Cap has done.

Cap would hurt his hand on Cage while Cage remains undamaged.

Cap is way stronger than Cage.

Dp

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Cap is way stronger than Cage.

He isn't half as strong.
Cage is significantly stronger.

Originally posted by KingD19
Cap threw Ultron the opposite direction of the truck though so if anything the fear is even more impressive. You are mistaken sir.

Originally posted by h1a8
He isn't half as strong.
Cage is significantly stronger.


Captain America's Supersoldier Serum makes him one of the strongest biological humans in marvel (Biological and Humans since heroes like Thor which isn't human or Iron Man or Bucky which have technology don't count in this criteria). Captain Amarican in both Films and Comics has shown exceptional feats of superstrenght.

Evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ccey7IJLCM

Holding a Helicopter is a feat of SUPERSTRENGHT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP8l6J_H38g

A complete video of all Captain Amarica's fight. Clearly showing how strong he is. He is seen in several instances tossing people and even Ultron's Robots like nothing. He also uses his shield to toss people several feet away (He needs superstrenght for that).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKucyFap_KE&t=65s

There a video with Actual Movie feats, Scientific research, and a TON of research proving how strong Cap is.

I dont see Cage coming anywhere near that.

Cages high ends are far above cap, but his averages are below cap

Originally posted by h1a8
He isn't half as strong.
Cage is significantly stronger.

It's obvious that Cap is billions of times stronger than his feats show.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Cages high ends are far above cap, but his averages are below cap

Watch the last link. I doubt Cage even gets near to Caps strenght.

So Captain America Knocks out Cage before he gets Knocked out?

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
So Captain America Knocks out Cage before he gets Knocked out?

I believe he can.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
So Captain America Knocks out Cage before he gets Knocked out?

This seems to be the opinion of a very tiny minority of people. Most people agree that the guy who can consistently smash through solid brick, steel, and concrete with his bare fists, or casually KO people with slaps/taps to the head, as well as eat impacts from garbage trucks, SUVs, Iron Fists, rocket launchers etc. without sustaining serious damage wins the slugfest.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
This seems to be the opinion of a very tiny minority of people. Most people agree that the guy who can consistently smash through solid brick, steel, and concrete with his bare fists, or casually KO people with slaps/taps to the head, as well as eat impacts from garbage trucks, SUVs, Iron Fists, rocket launchers etc. without sustaining serious damage wins the slugfest.

Admit it Vault. Cap beats Cage. Its only ypu and a few uninformed people who support you.

Evidence supports Cap.

That is your opinion

Now a few things from me

This is a slugfest. Means the combatants take turns punching each other. And the lifting or pressing feats mean practically nothing, which is what you keep reposting. What matters is striking feats and durability feats. And you yourself agreed Cage is more durable overall. And where does Cap have striking feats like Cage punching through concrete and brick walls?

Two, you mentioned Cap taking punches from Bucky's metal arm, along with being shot, stabbed and a long fall. You do realize that Cap was KTFOd after that so bad that he had to be hospitalized? And Bucky used the metal arm to oneshot Cap once, arguably twice in Civil War.

Three, you claimed that Cap had no issues taking hits from Iron Man. Then why was he bloodied up and spitting blood with less than 6 hits when IM got serious? He also was gone for 10 mins after the initial backhand he got from Tony. Also, as Vault said, The Civil War suit has no quantifiable feats than forcing open two metal doors and even then that's no striking feat.
And again you made the folly of using a wiki statement as proof for your argument, while it is actually the total opposite of what happened in the movie, the very same reason wikis are considered as unreliable sources on this forum.
Related to above, you claimed that in Civil War Iron Man got the better of Bucky's metal arm. He didn't

https://gfycat.com/BlaringSilkyGavial

Heck Bucky's normal arm overpowered him
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138600/5442849-1493819712-giphy.gif

I think you mean about 10 seconds, not 10 minutes, when Tony backhands him at the start of the fight.

Yeah I got that wrong and didn't notice

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Captain America's Supersoldier Serum makes him one of the strongest biological humans in marvel (Biological and Humans since heroes like Thor which isn't human or Iron Man or Bucky which have technology don't count in this criteria). Captain Amarican in both Films and Comics has shown exceptional feats of superstrenght.

Evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ccey7IJLCM

Holding a Helicopter is a feat of SUPERSTRENGHT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP8l6J_H38g

A complete video of all Captain Amarica's fight. Clearly showing how strong he is. He is seen in several instances tossing people and even Ultron's Robots like nothing. He also uses his shield to toss people several feet away (He needs superstrenght for that).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKucyFap_KE&t=65s

There a video with Actual Movie feats, Scientific research, and a TON of research proving how strong Cap is.

I dont see Cage coming anywhere near that.

Having superstrength doesn't mean you are close to Cage in strength.
Cap has very low level movie superstrength. In other words, characters in movies are naturally stronger than real life people. That means some of Cap's strength can be contributed to being a character in a movie.

Anyway, The helicopter feat is around a few tons (2-3). I would say that Cap is on average a 1.5 tonner (but he can occasionally do feats up to 3 tons or so).

Cage on the other hand can casually do stuff that takes several tons to do (like bend the barrel of a gun all the way back). This means he could apply more than 5 times more force is necessary.

Cage can do everything Cap did strengthwise, but easier.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
That is your opinion

Now a few things from me

This is a slugfest. Means the combatants take turns punching each other. And the lifting or pressing feats mean practically nothing, which is what you keep reposting. What matters is striking feats and durability feats. And you yourself agreed Cage is more durable overall. And where does Cap have striking feats like Cage punching through concrete and brick walls?

Two, you mentioned Cap taking punches from Bucky's metal arm, along with being shot, stabbed and a long fall. You do realize that Cap was KTFOd after that so bad that he had to be hospitalized? And Bucky used the metal arm to oneshot Cap once, arguably twice in Civil War.

Three, you claimed that Cap had no issues taking hits from Iron Man. Then why was he bloodied up and spitting blood with less than 6 hits when IM got serious? He also was gone for 10 mins after the initial backhand he got from Tony. Also, as Vault said, The Civil War suit has no quantifiable feats than forcing open two metal doors and even then that's no striking feat.
And again you made the folly of using a wiki statement as proof for your argument, while it is actually the total opposite of what happened in the movie, the very same reason wikis are considered as unreliable sources on this forum.
Related to above, you claimed that in Civil War Iron Man got the better of Bucky's metal arm. He didn't

https://gfycat.com/BlaringSilkyGavial

Heck Bucky's normal arm overpowered him
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138600/5442849-1493819712-giphy.gif

I guess forums are made of opinions. The difference between one opinion and the other is that some have evidence, and some are unfounded. So yes, it's my opinion along with evidence.

I appreciate the time you took. Until now you're the only one who has come to me with actual evidence and reasonable points. However there are some misunderstandings you have. So am going to outline them for you ok.

1. You claiming that: Cage is stronger than Cap because he can punch through concrete.

Okay, first of all, the fact that Cage can punch through concrete doesnt prove that his punches are stronger than Caps. Captain America has never hit concrete before, so the outcome is unknown in that aspect (Else prove it). Captain America has hit Iron Man's suit with his fists causing light damage to the armor (Iron Man's armor is stronger than Concrete, so that proves that Cap can strike hard materials without a problem).

But your biggest misunderstanding here is: The concept of strength.

Cage was able to strike through concrete not because of strength but because of density. Cage superdense skin makes his punches like Metal. Furthermore, that doesn't prove Cage beings stronger. How could he hit harder than a man who picks up motorcycles, holds helicopters, and pulls bulldozers? That's scientifically impossible. Strength isn't variable. Isn't like a person who lifts up 100kg will punch less than a person who lifts 20kg! Understand what i am trying to say?

Captain America is able to pick up a motorcycle because he got strong arms, which in turn means he can punch hard too.

Evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDlG32PFHtA

You say that Captain America doesn't punch hard? I found that hard to believe considering the way he punched that punching bag.

So again, no. Cage is quite inferior to Cap in terms of strenght.

2. Durability

Again, i agree Cage being more durable generally (His superdense skin makes him unpenetrable).

But Cap is just as durable.

Yes Cap was sent to the hospital and got severely damage. But you forget the fact that it was Iron Man and Bucky the ones who made that damage.

Cage couldn't replicate that damage.

Captain America has taken bullets, knifes, punches harder that those Cage could ever replicate, and falls from heights no human could survive. Durability wise, Cage wouldn't be an issue.

Luke Cage couldn't replicate the damage Captain has withstood so far.

On the other hand, Cap is WAY STRONGER than any foe Cage has ever faced. So Cage is going to get hit hard!!!!!!! While Cap isn't going to be in that much of a danger.


This is only to defend my point on Iron Man beings stronger than Bucky. Since either way, Both Iron Man and Bucky are way stronger than Luke Cage (Which automatically puts Captain America on top of Cage).

Again you have several concepts wrong.

Cage could NEVER replicate the amount of damage Iron Man's fist do. Nor the amount of damage Bucky's bionic arm does. So either way, Cage is still way inferior to Cap in terms of strength. So isn't like Cage punches would do any serious damage to Cap.

Again, strength isn't variable. If Iron Man can open two metal doors, he can punch hard. It's logic.

Okay it's clear you didn't understood the wiki. Also you misunderstood the videos.

Iron Man's gaunlets are as strong or stronger than Bucky's prostethic arm.



Wiki's exact words. Lets verify the wiki's exact words first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j3Pu_xCjMo

Minute 3:30: Bucky's prostethic arm is hooked to Iron Man's reactor. Bucky is trying to reap the reactor out of the suit. Iron Man manages to hold and prevent Bucky from removing the reactor. Bucky then tries to crush it forcing Iron Man to use his unibeam.

I don't see why the wiki is wrong. Iron Man was able to "counter" Bucky's maneouver by holding the bionic arm. So Iron Man's suit is as strong enough to hold the prostethic limb.

Now let me address your other panel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j3Pu_xCjMo

Minute 0:08. Iron Man is able to hold the limb without a problem again. This proves that MK46 has the ability to counter the prostethic arm of the Winter Soldier. (Considering Stark's inteligence, he wouldn't have built a suit that would be weaker than Bucky's arm).

So again the wiki is still right.

Now your panels dont really proved that Iron Man's suit is weak. It just proves that in that precise moment Iron Man wasn't using strength but his beam.

In the second instance, Bucky's biological arm was able to counter MK46 arm. Just like his Prostethic arm did before. But if you notice, in both instances MK46 was using the energy to create the beam.

Remember it's a robot we are talking about. The Energy was focused on making a bean not on applying force. Take it as a car. A car can focus its energy on either speed or torque.

So basically Tony used his suits energy to cause the beam, not to try counter Winter's Soldier arm.


So, in conclusion. Captain america is stronger and as durable as Cage. That resumes in Cage receiving more damage than he can give. Cap has withstood greater forces than Cage could ever give out himself. So I still support cap.

Did you say Cap took bullets and knives? When he got shot in Winter Soldier, he was visibly hurt. And he actually got shot. Luke stands there while entire rooms of people dump dozens of rounds of bullets into him and the worst thing that happens is he needs to change clothes. Knives literally break when trying to stab Cage. Wtf are you talking about?

Originally posted by KingD19
Did you say Cap took bullets and knives? When he got shot in Winter Soldier, he was visibly hurt. And he actually got shot. Luke stands there while entire rooms of people dump dozens of rounds of bullets into him and the worst thing that happens is he needs to change clothes. Knives literally break when trying to stab Cage. Wtf are you talking about?

What's more, eating dozens upon dozens of bullets and not even picking up mild bruising also translates to blunt force resistance, as people can still be hurt by bullets that fail to pierce them through kevlar, and things like rubber bullets can break bones and even potentially be lethal at close enough range.

Also, the rocket launcher used to shoot Cage is a FIM-43 Redeye. The US army used to use those to shoot down enemy planes.

Originally posted by KingD19
Did you say Cap took bullets and knives? When he got shot in Winter Soldier, he was visibly hurt. And he actually got shot. Luke stands there while entire rooms of people dump dozens of rounds of bullets into him and the worst thing that happens is he needs to change clothes. Knives literally break when trying to stab Cage. Wtf are you talking about?

I am talking about Cap's durability here not Cage's.

If cap can take a bullet and a knife stab, plus several good punches from Bucky's prostethic arm, they why is Cage such a threat here?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I am talking about Cap's durability here not Cage's.

If cap can take a bullet and a knife stab, plus several good punches from Bucky's prostethic arm, they why is Cage such a threat here?

Because Cage can get shot all day and not even feel it. Cage breaks knives against his skin. He got hit with a rocket launcher, and a speeding SUV and a garbage truck(which weighs about 15 tons) without even flinching. Why is Cap such a threat here?

Originally posted by KingD19
Because Cage can get shot all day and not even feel it. Cage breaks knives against his skin. He got hit with a rocket launcher, and a speeding SUV and a garbage truck(which weighs about 15 tons) without even flinching. Why is Cap such a threat here?

Don't misunderstand a punch from a bullet/knife.

Cage superdense skin makes him impenetrable to bullets, knifes, and being basically tore appart by explosions. However a punch is direct force. The Dense skin makes it easy for the shock waves to travel and can basically knock out Cage with enough of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZPdQ3EP-NA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3NcufXUNwM

With enough force Cage will fall.

Cage is durable but doesn't have enough stamina to take SUPERSTRONG punches.

On the other had, Cage himself won't give strong enough punches to cap to make a difference.

Cage won't last Cap punches. He barely lasted Diamondback's!

Your realize all of Diamondback's hits were Cage's own strength being absorbed and redirected by his suit right? It was like Cage was fighting a copy of himself, and at the end of the fight he walked away just fine with a bloody lip. Cap stumbled away from Iron Man, and Bucky had to save his life before that. The knife and gunshots wouldn't have even bothered Luke.

Originally posted by KingD19
Your realize all of Diamondback's hits were Cage's own strength being absorbed and redirected by his suit right? It was like Cage was fighting a copy of himself, and at the end of the fight he walked away just fine with a bloody lip. Cap stumbled away from Iron Man, and Bucky had to save his life before that. The knife and gunshots wouldn't have even bothered Luke.

Yes. And ive akready proven that Cap is way above Cage in terms of strength.

Cap's punches would eventually K.O. Cage.

Again Cage absorbing bullets doesnt apply for punches, since they act differently on Dense skin like Cages.

Originally posted by h1a8
Having superstrength doesn't mean you are close to Cage in strength.
Cap has very low level movie superstrength. In other words, characters in movies are naturally stronger than real life people. That means some of Cap's strength can be contributed to being a character in a movie.

Anyway, The helicopter feat is around a few tons (2-3). I would say that Cap is on average a 1.5 tonner (but he can occasionally do feats up to 3 tons or so).

Cage on the other hand can casually do stuff that takes several tons to do (like bend the barrel of a gun all the way back). This means he could apply more than 5 times more force is necessary.

Cage can do everything Cap did strengthwise, but easier.

Only Cap is a billion times stronger than his feats show. that means he's at least a 1.5 billion tonner.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Only Cap is a billion times stronger than his feats show. that means he's at least a 1.5 billion tonner. And Cage and everyone else is still stronger.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yes. And ive akready proven that Cap is way above Cage in terms of strength.

Cap's punches would eventually K.O. Cage.

Again Cage absorbing bullets doesnt apply for punches, since they act differently on Dense skin like Cages. You didn't prove anything. Cage could do every single strength feat Cap did, but easier.

Cage is at least twice as strong as Cap.
Cap, in no way, can bend the barrel of a gun all the way back with casual ease.

Strength and durability are two different things. Cap will break his hand punching Cage.

Originally posted by h1a8
And Cage and everyone else is still stronger.


Go ahead and prove that Cage is stronger than 1.5 billion tons.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Only Cap is a billion times stronger than his feats show. that means he's at least a 1.5 billion tonner.

Originally posted by h1a8
And Cage and everyone else is still stronger.

Cage isnt even near to MCU Caps level of strength.

Where you got that info from?

Originally posted by h1a8
You didn't prove anything. Cage could do every single strength feat Cap did, but easier.

Cage is at least twice as strong as Cap.
Cap, in no way, can bend the barrel of a gun all the way back with casual ease.

Strength and durability are two different things. Cap will break his hand punching Cage.

Lol.

Cage has never hold a helicopter. Nor come near close to Cap's strenght feats.

Cap didnt broke his hand hitting MK46 Suit.

Cap has never crushed a truck by standing there.

Originally posted by KingD19
Cap has never crushed a truck by standing there.

His dense skin doesn't make him super strong.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
His dense skin doesn't make him super strong.

You're right. It doesn't. So you realize that without strength he still would've been okay but he would have gone flying. His strength let him crush it idiot.

Originally posted by KingD19
You're right. It doesn't. So you realize that without strength he still would've been okay but he would have gone flying. His strength let him crush it idiot.

Cap is stronger than Cage.

Cap has lift up things that Cage could never imagine lifting.

Originally posted by KingD19
You're right. It doesn't. So you realize that without strength he still would've been okay but he would have gone flying. His strength let him crush it idiot.

Anyone who thinks that a guy can do the things Cage does, without having super strength, is retarded. No amount of durability would allow you to stop a 2.3 to 2.5 metric ton object traveling between 25 an 35 mph dead in its tracks. Or lift and carry huge slabs of concrete, twist up solid steel, or overpower Jessica Jones (who is strong enough to do things like catch an elevator and push a car through a store wall), just to name a few blatantly superhuman strength feats of Cage's.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Anyone who thinks that a guy can do the things Cage does, without having super strength, is retarded. No amount of durability would allow you to stop a 2.3 to 2.5 metric ton object traveling between 25 an 35 mph dead in its tracks. Or lift and carry huge slabs of concrete, twist up solid steel, or overpower Jessica Jones (who is strong enough to do things like catch an elevator and push a car through a store wall), just to name a few blatantly superhuman strength feats of Cage's.

Not enough to surpass that of Cap's.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Cage isnt even near to MCU Caps level of strength.

Where you got that info from?



Lol.

Cage has never hold a helicopter. Nor come near close to Cap's strenght feats.

Cap didnt broke his hand hitting MK46 Suit.

Helicopter feat is a few tons. Cage has shown to be able to exert that without much effort. Cap at best is around 5 tons and on average 2 tons.


Yet Cap did not do any damage to I'm with his fists. I'm armor is harder than Steve's fists. In other words, Cap's fist would be damaged before IM would.

Originally posted by h1a8
Helicopter feat is a few tons. Cage has shown to be able to exert that without much effort. Cap at best is around 5 tons and on average 2 tons.


Yet Cap did not do any damage to I'm with his fists. I'm armor is harder than Steve's fists. In other words, Cap's fist would be damaged before IM would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKucyFap_KE&t=65s

Cap easily surpasses 50tons!

Cage isnt even near to that.

Cage max would be 5ton perhaps. PERHAPS.