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Force
Sabers
All Out

Bane

Bane

Wyyrok takes Force at least. The reason for this is their respective bouts against Darth Andeddu. For Bane:

Reaching out with the Force, he plunged his awareness into the depths of the pyramid's inner workings as the gatekeeper let loose a howl of impotent rage. Thrusting his consciousness directly into the capstone, Bane let his will invade the small four-sided talisman just as he himself had invaded the stronghold of Andeddu's cult back on Prakith.

For a brief instant he could feel the burning inferno of power trapped within threatening to consume his identity._Bane welcomed the pain, feeding on it and transforming it along with all the frustration and anger he had built up over the past four days into a raging, swirling storm of dark side energy. Then, bit by bit, he began to impose order on the chaos, bending it to his will.

Using the Force, Bane began to make subtle adjustments to the Holocron's crystal matrix. He began to manipulate the arrangement of the filaments, twisting, turning, and shifting them with subtle, immeasurable adjustments as he worked his way deeper and deeper into the data in pursuit of what he sought. In many ways it was like slicing a secure computer network, only a million times more complex.

With each adjustment, the gatekeeper's image flickered and cried out, but Bane was oblivious to the simulation's artificial suffering. For several hours he continued his work, his body perspiring heavily, until he finally found what he sought: the ritual of essence transference; Andeddu's secret of eternal life.

With one final push of the Force, he reached out with his mind and seized what he had been searching for. With the aid of the gatekeeper the information would have taken weeks to absorb and learn. Bane, however, had gone right to the source. The knowledge streamed directly from the Holocron into his mind, raw and unfiltered._Thousands of images flooded his consciousness, an explosion of sights, sounds, and thoughts that caused him to drop the Holocron to the floor, breaking the connection.

Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil

For Wyyrlok:

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111282615/5361901-3584316023-45771.jpg

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111282615/5361902-4756481085-45771.jpg

https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111282615/5361903-1511439942-45771.jpg

https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111282615/5361904-2521534810-45771.jpg

So essentially:

Bane fought a spirit Andeddu trapped in a holocron; Wyyrlok fought a fully powered Andeddu
Bane was about to be consumed, until he amped himself off of his rage and pain
Bane only slowly overpowered Andeddu; as soon as Wyyrlok realised Andeddu's illusions for what they were, he instantly dispelled all of them, reversed Andeddu's technique on him despite it being his first time using it and killed him with it.


The fact that Bane managed to keep Andeddu at bay for hours is irrelevant, as he only slowly overpowered him despite being amped, whereas Wyyrlok fought a more powerful version and pretty much insta-stomped him with Andeddu's own technique.

Good find, Az. I'd like to see what DMB has to say about this.

He doesn't buy it, but I haven't heard his extensive reasoning

massive images lol.

Yeah, sorry, couldn't find smaller ones. And I like my scans so not changing them to links.

Anyways, thoughts, Ziggy?

It's nice viewing if you zoom out a bit.

Wyyrlok is so badass.

Wyyrlok wins

Bane sweeps

Wyyrlok

Bump

Probably Wyyrlok, tbh.

Bane

Why do those who say Bane think he wins?

Wouldn't their fights contribute more towards willpower than force Strength.

Force power is derived from willpower

no.

Originally posted by Azronger
Force power is derived from willpower

Sure, because Darth Sion is totally stronger than Malgus/Arcann/Vaylin/Bane, yeah you get the point.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Sure, because Darth Sion is totally stronger than Malgus/Arcann/Vaylin/Bane, yeah you get the point.

And you don't, apprently. I didn't say willpower was the only source of Force power, but it can be used to achieve the same results as those with more talent or knowledge. In the case of Sion, it allowed him to attain immortality without the need for extensive study or a deep grasp of the Force.

Several characters in-universe have come to this same realization, Darths Plagueis and Wyyrlok himself being examples. Wyyrlok believed a Sith's strength derived from willpower, and his theory actually showed results.

https://i.imgur.com/WVxxWLu.png

https://i.imgur.com/1RmqYfr.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/4577173-02.png

With his sheer force of will, Wyyrlok was able to circumvent the knowledge and mastery required to understand Andeddu's technique, so despite never having heard of it, he was able to instantaneously utilize it and actually reverse it back on Andeddu with greater potency.

Of course willpower isn't the only variable in determining an individual's Force strength, as raw talent and knowledge also play a key factor, but willpower is still very significant nonetheless. And it's not that Wyyrlok lacks in the Force knowledge department, being the One Sith's loremaster and an expert on Sith Alchemy and Sorcery. That, plus his own feats and scaling is what makes me confident in his ability to win a wizarding duel against Bane.

So his will gives him greater resistance, to an illusion type attack, as it should.
He is obviously more versed the Bane in that Area, but that doesn't prove force superiority.

Look at Anakin, if Anakin invested enough time into that area, he would of been indomitable mentally, but instead he was manipulated by palps.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
So his will gives him greater resistance, to an illusion type attack, as it should.
He is obviously more versed the Bane in that Area, but that doesn't prove force superiority.

Look at Anakin, if Anakin invested enough time into that area, he would of been indomitable mentally, but instead he was manipulated by palps.

I literally just said that willpower isn't the sole determining facor in overall Force power - but a major part nonetheless - and stated that Wyyrlok's other feats and scaling will too contribute to his triumph here. You are merely regurgitating my words.

Originally posted by Azronger
I literally just said that willpower isn't the sole determining facor in overall Force power - but a major part nonetheless - and stated that Wyyrlok's other feats and scaling will too contribute to his triumph here. You are merely regurgitating my words.

Obviously, and I agree with it playing a role in certain cases, i'm just saying Bane, didn't do as well against him due to not being as versed in Willpower as Wyyrlok.
It doesn't prove Wyyrlok to be superior when it comes to pure strength.

Well no, but whatever esoteric technique Bane tries on Wyyrlok will fail and might backfire, and the strength of telekinetic barriers have also been stated to correlate with willpower, so Bane has no chance there either.

That leaves Lightning, elemental powers like Force Lightning, and Wyyrlok should have the edge there too.

Originally posted by Azronger
Well no, but whatever esoteric technique Bane tries on Wyyrlok will fail and might backfire, and the strength of telekinetic barriers have also been stated to correlate with willpower, so Bane has no chance there either.

That leaves Lightning, elemental powers like Force Lightning, and Wyyrlok should have the edge there too.

My question is :

Does Wyyrlok have an edge in power levels?

Originally posted by ziggtard
My question is :

Does Wyyrlok have an edge in power levels?

He should, based on his feats and scaling, although I doubt it's anything too huge. It should be a good fight.

BTW, Naturally speaking, any masterfully trained force adept within a faction (i.e. - sith/jedi/imperial knight/nightsister) will be more skilled than Darth bane in duelling. He blossomed to late on that token and still might have a weakness to duel weapon fencing.

Originally posted by ziggtard
BTW, Naturally speaking, any masterfully trained force adept within a faction (i.e. - sith/jedi/imperial knight/nightsister) will be more skilled than Darth bane in duelling. He blossomed to late on that token and still might have a weakness to duel weapon fencing.

Now you're just lowballing lol. You may be correct on the dual blade issue (DMB can clarify that for us), but random mooks aren't going to do anyhing to Bane in a duel other than get stomped.

Originally posted by Azronger
Now you're just lowballing lol. You may be correct on the dual blade issue (DMB can clarify that for us), but random mooks aren't going to do anyhing to Bane in a duel other than get stomped.

Yes Azronger, but that's because he's naturally more powerful than them.

I'm talking about pure weapon skill in a vacuum away from force power. Think about someone like Darth Talon - picked from birth by Krayt, potentially having thousands of spars with different colleagues - and knowing the way Krayt runs things - those being potentially to the death. Bane simply didn't have that practical tuition considering his early life. Ergo- he may not have the technical skill of these people. Much less if they simply pull out a second blade, to his complete helpless bewilderment.

the point is that you think wyyrlok is more powerful than bane, which would mean bane has to hold some technical edge against him in duel to make headway. in which case, Bane looses all.

Originally posted by ziggtard
Yes Azronger, but that's because he's naturally more powerful than them.

I'm talking about pure weapon skill in a vacuum away from force power. Think about someone like Darth Talon - picked from birth by Krayt, potentially having thousands of spars with different colleagues - and knowing the way Krayt runs things - those being potentially to the death. Bane simply didn't have that practical tuition considering his early life. Ergo- he may not have the technical skill of these people. Much less if they simply pull out a second blade, to his complete helpless bewilderment.

Well, I'm not going to defend Bane's dueling prowess here, as I don't think he wins this fight, but I definitely think you're massively underselling him here.

But regardless, yes, Wyyrlok wins. Even ignoring the duel blade issue, he was good enough to hold out against Darth Krayt, who I believe would give even the likes of Palpatine and Yoda a run for their money in a lightsaber duel.

Originally posted by Azronger
But regardless, yes, Wyyrlok wins. Even ignoring the duel blade issue, he was good enough to hold out against Darth Krayt, who I believe would kill even the likes of Palpatine and Yoda in an all out duel.
We can finally agree on something.

> last five blade-clashes
> hold out

Kit Fisto held out against Sidious, y'all!

Originally posted by MythLord
> last five blade-clashes
> hold out

Kit Fisto held out against Sidious, y'all!

To be fair it's a comic and stuff could have happened in-between. There doesn't seem to be any logical continuation between the panels. So it's likely a series of snaps. The duel likely lasted longer.

I see a logical continuation: Krayt leaped at Wyyrlok, leaped over him, bladelocked then used his strength open up his defenses and leave him exposed. Then Wyyrlok TP'ed him.

Either way, the duel was insanely brief and Wyyrlok was struggling.

The duel was brief, sure, but I see nothing to indicate such a one-sided slaughter as Sidious vs Fisto. Wyyrlok successfully blocked Krayt's power charge, had the latter use advanced and nuanced manuevering, dodged one attack of Krayt's, and even had room to use his Force abilities. It was a lopsided fight, sure, but not a stomp. A stomp would be something like Krayt's last battle with Cade.

Originally posted by Azronger
Darth Krayt, who I believe would give even the likes of Palpatine and Yoda a run for their money in a lightsaber duel.

Which logically means you must think Karness Muur and all of his superiors can, too.

Progress.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Which logically means you must think Karness Muur and all of his superiors can, too.

Progress.

I have Muur roughly on Dooku's level as a duelist. He isn't pressuring Yoda or Sidious, but he can last against them for a maybe 35-45 seconds before going down.

Well done.

Originally posted by Azronger
The duel was brief, sure, but I see nothing to indicate such a one-sided slaughter as Sidious vs Fisto. Wyyrlok successfully blocked Krayt's power charge, had the latter use advanced and nuanced manuevering, dodged one attack of Krayt's, and even had room to use his Force abilities. It was a lopsided fight, sure, but not a stomp. A stomp would be something like Krayt's last battle with Cade.

Nuanced manuevering? Krayt charged at him, lept over him and proceeded to make an opening within two moves. That ain't nuanced, that's powering right through Wyyrlok's defenses.

Wyyrlok did have room to use his Force abilities, but Krayt implies it's because he allowed it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Which logically means you must think Karness Muur and all of his superiors can, too.

Progress.
But at that time Krayt was basically one inch away from his deathbed. Reborn Krayt stated he returned with his power "multiplied".

They dueled evenly, despite Celeste Morne interrupting repeatedly.

Nor does that factor in that Muur is a mere spirit who hasn't dueled in 7,000 years.

They both had massive hindrances, so that excuse is pretty poor.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nor does that factor in that Muur is a mere spirit who hasn't dueled in 7,000 years.

They both had massive hindrances, so that excuse is pretty poor.
Are we really going to pretend either of us has an understanding on the metaphysical underpinnings of a disembodied spirit, or possesssion? How does a spirit have memories and skill without neural pathways? Stop nitpicking.

Krayt was on the verge of death, and there was no indication that Celeste/Muur suffered a decrease in power.

Lol. Did you just ignore the reason why Muur wants to leave Morne in the first place? Mkay.

DMB, we want to see a solid counter against the Andeddu(spelling) comparison.

^

Your spelling is correct, by the way.

Bane, obviously.

Originally posted by ziggtard
DMB, we want to see a solid counter against the Andeddu(spelling) comparison.

DMB is busy with college

Originally posted by Azronger
DMB is busy with college

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-07-2017/iQhNJT.gif

Welp, I guess Bane dies here

Originally posted by Azronger
Welp, I guess Bane dies here

I'm fine with that.

only thing dmb is busy with is sniffing glue and drinking vodka, kids not fit for college lmao remember this post when hes failed first term

What's wrong with drinking

Originally posted by godemperortrump
What's wrong with drinking
he does it errrday bro lol hes lowkey an alcoholic

Originally posted by BroLolSauce
he does it errrday bro lol hes lowkey an alcoholic nah

highkey lol