Jiren & LB Goku vs. Whis

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



byrdgang21
Who wins?

carver9
Wow!!! I think Whis loses this one. Honestly don't know.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Whis, easily. For now. That could change with, y'know, more evidence.

Nevan
Whis has more power than Jiren and a better mastery of movement without thinking than Goku, so yeah.

cdtm
Whis stomps.

Inedian
Whis very easily.

carver9
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Whis, easily. For now. That could change with, y'know, more evidence.

What evidence does Whis have proving he could beat these two? The times he took Beerus out were just sneak attacks. Please provide showings proving your case.

Damborgson
Whis one shot Beerus, with a tap to the head. He's still in a different tier honestly.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up

This isn't a fight.

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
What evidence does Whis have proving he could beat these two? The times he took Beerus out were just sneak attacks. Please provide showings proving your case.

Carver is arguing against Whis stomping.

There's your evidence Whis stomps. /thread/

Galan007
Whis wins, and easily.

Tbh, I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenario where he wouldn't one-shot each of them... mmm

carver9
If Whis can one shot Goku and Jiren, he is unimaginably powerful. I just don't know about this.

carver9
Whis dad had to put a shield over himself and Zeno during Jiren and Goku battle.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Whis is unimaginably powerful. He's completely and utterly mastered Ultra Instinct. What Jiren was doing to SSJG, Whis was doing to SSJB. Blocking it casually with one finger. Blocks Beerus with a single finger. Has KO'd Beerus with ease multiple times.

Also, in the manga, Ramod's battle roar had Beerus and all the other gods of Destruction paralyzed. Whis didn't even flinch. Whis stomps this fight.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by carver9
Whis dad had to put a shield over himself and Zeno during Jiren and Goku battle.

Deleted content.

vansonbee
Originally posted by carver9
Whis dad had to put a shield over himself and Zeno during Jiren and Goku battle. GP didn't want dust and debris getting into Zeno eyes?

cdtm
Originally posted by vansonbee
GP didn't want dust and debris getting into Zeno eyes?

Wouldn't want to hurt his fragile, vulnerable eyes.

Killed by the farmer. thumb up

carver9
Originally posted by vansonbee
GP didn't want dust and debris getting into Zeno eyes?

No. Before putting the shield up, he said "that looks dangerous".

Nevan
Are you seriously implying Jiren is something even resembling an actual threat to the Grand Priest?

cdtm
Everything he thinks is wrong. According to Carver, Goku beats Superman. laughing

Inedian
Whis destroys easily.

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
If Whis can one shot Goku and Jiren, he is unimaginably powerful. I just don't know about this. As of now, there is no definitive evidence that puts Jiren on par with the most powerful Destroyers, like Beerus and Quitela -- but even if he is, Whis can still casually one-shot Beerus-level beings. If Whis takes this fight seriously, it'd be over before Goku/Jiren even knew what was happening, imo.

Remember, all this time/training since DBS began, and Goku is still striving just to match Beerus... Whis is on an entirely different level.

bbrem123
Make me wonder if Whis is secretly teaching Goku and Vegeta to become GoDs. I say this because Goku is now able to use Hakai in the manga.

Technically Vegeta already agreed to it.

Galan007
Originally posted by bbrem123
Make me wonder if Whis is secretly teaching Goku and Vegeta to become GoDs. I say this because Goku is now able to use Hakai in the manga.

Technically Vegeta already agreed to it. Yeah, the series has strongly hinted at Whis training them as potential replacements for Beerus, but considering that Goku has made it clear he wants NOTHING to do with that role, there's obviously something else that keeps Whis interested(and I don't think it's juts earth food, lol.)

Maybe he just wants to see how far he can take mortals up the totem pole..? /shrug

cdtm
Has there ever been a mortal who can fight an angel?

Or ever a GoD, for that matter?

What happens if an angel is defeated, I wonder? Would the victor enjoy the spoils and a new position, or would the offending warrior, or perhaps his entire universe, be erased?

Galan007
By all implications, Jiren is the first mortal to ever truly reach GoD-levels of power, which means NO mortal has ever remotely approached Angel-levels.

If an Angel dies, that universe's GoD would be free to blindly rampage with no recourse. This would eventually cause a cosmic/universal imbalance that would annoy Daishinkan and Zen-Oh, and likely result in that continuum being erased.

cdtm
If that's the case, Whis is a pretty irresponsible angel. smile

Although for all their power, they're really nothing more then a nursemaid and servant to fairly petty/crude beings, so I suppose I'd do anything for excitement, too.

Kento
Originally posted by Galan007
By all implications, Jiren is the first mortal to ever truly reach GoD-levels of power, which means NO mortal has ever remotely approached Angel-levels. Since Toppo is being trained to be next GoD, and Vegeta and Goku being trained for GoD wouldn't you think that all GoDs have been mortal at one time? That something happens when the title is switched?

Galan007
Originally posted by Kento
Since Toppo is being trained to be next GoD, and Vegeta and Goku being trained for GoD wouldn't you think that all GoDs have been mortal at one time? That something happens when the title is switched? Perhaps.

But given their age(Beerus, for example, has been a Destroyer for "hundredS of millionS of years", and the other GoDs are implied to be just as ancient) it's also quite possible that the original GoDs featured in DBS were divinely 'bred/grown' in a similar nature to the Kaioshin... Especially given the intimate link Kaioshin and GoDs share with one another.

Regarding the origin of Kaioshin(ie. Supreme Kais)-


Regarding the 'Kaioshin Realm'-


*Note, these interviews were released a few years ago, so some of the tidbits Toriyama mentioned in them have been retconned in DBS continuity. However, the part about Kaio and Kaioshin essentially being 'grown' still holds true, afaik.

cdtm
Zamasu would seem to contradict being born a Kaioshin at least, as he was training to become one and unable to use time rings without a rank bump.

Galan007
He was still born a member of *that* race... And only members of *that* race can become Kaioshin.

cdtm
That's still true. Toriyama's comment made it sound like they pop out of the nursery full fledge Kaioshins, instead of needing a training period.

Could make a good story of the Kaioshin that couldn't cut it. Zamasu kind of was that, but he chose to throw it all away, instead of simply not measuring up.

It could also be they take over no matter what, explaining all the fairly incompetent bosses. thumb up

Kento
Originally posted by Galan007
Perhaps.

But given their age(Beerus, for example, has been a Destroyer for "hundredS of millionS of years", and the other GoDs are implied to be just as ancient) it's also quite possible that the original GoDs featured in DBS were divinely 'bred/grown' in a similar nature to the Kaioshin... Especially given the intimate link Kaioshin and GoDs share with one another.

But with how diverse the GoDs are compared to Angels and Kai it makes more sense that they aren't grown or bred. Belmond gives exact years he has been one in the manga. Instead of just saying since time began or the beginning of everything which makes me think he isn't even the first. And that becoming a GoD involves some ritual and linking to the Angel and Kaioshin of your universe. Otherwise why would they use mortals as replacements?

But we might never know.

cdtm
Originally posted by Kento
But with how diverse the GoDs are compared to Angels and Kai it makes more sense that they aren't grown or bred. Belmond gives exact years he has been one in the manga. Instead of just saying since time began or the beginning of everything which makes me think he isn't even the first. And that becoming a GoD involves some ritual and linking to the Angel and Kaioshin of your universe. Otherwise why would they use mortals as replacements?

But we might never know.

There's also the fact Whis and Beerus keeps pestering Goku to consider the job.. In the manga, Beerus says "Become a God of Destruction! It's not a bad job! You get to eat all you want, sleep all day, don't have to work much!"

Not much point enticing him if you can only be born into it.

Galan007
Originally posted by Kento
But with how diverse the GoDs are compared to Angels and Kai it makes more sense that they aren't grown or bred. Belmond gives exact years he has been one in the manga. Instead of just saying since time began or the beginning of everything which makes me think he isn't even the first. And that becoming a GoD involves some ritual and linking to the Angel and Kaioshin of your universe. Otherwise why would they use mortals as replacements?

But we might never know. Oh, I'm not saying that you *have* to be born as a GoD to be a GoD -- we KNOW that isn't the case. The fact that Toppo, a mortal, is Belmond's replacement(and Daishinkan -the #2 authority in the multiverse- is perfectly fine with it) shatters that notion.

I'm just saying that it *seems* like the GoDs we've seen in DBS are the original Destroyers, as there has been no mention of them being preceded by others thus far. And judging by how unanimously shocked the Destroyers and Angels are that a mortal could possibly be on par with a GoD makes me think the originals were bred/created specifically for the task -- much like the Kaioshin and Angels seem to have been bred/created specifically for their tasks. /shrug

But yeah, we may never know one way or the other.

Kento
I just took it as a GoD has millenniums of getting power and become something not mortal anymore. For someone with such a short life span to get so powerful is the shocking part. But I can see what you mean.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.