Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

End of Act I Hero of Tython. Prime Savage. All-out fight, to the death, on neutral ground.

Who wins and why?

Savage's O'presses him into juice.

HoT

Act I HoT is already confirmed to be the most powerful Jedi in the Order. Putting him above Satele, who was so strong she could've broken Eldon Ax's bones, was so fast that Eldon Ax could barely see her, and couldn't even hear her destroy a dozen Hex droids she was so quick.

Opress gets shanked.

^ If that's everything HoT has done, Savage.

The opinions of some random people who might not have seen Satele in action, giving HoT baseless praise that might not even mean raw Force power obviously suggests he's better than someone with actually fvcking quantifiable feats.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
^ If that's everything HoT has done, Savage.

Nah, but Fatal Alliance has Satele displaying insane augmentation feats and the HoT surpasses her before the second part of Act I is even started.

He also gets scaling from Aryn Leneer, Wyellett and the Barsen'thor, whose storyline takes place prior to HoT's.

Oh and Myth, Satele herself says the HoT is more powerful.

Luke says Kyp is more powerful than him and possibly Sidious, Yoda and Ben; Obi-Wan says AotC Anakin is more powerful than him. Jedi are humble af and it might also be referring to potential.

Let's also disregard she just says "greatest", not "most powerful". Greatest can mean a lot of sh!t.

If only her opinion wasn't backed up by Lord Scourge, Orgus Din, the Sith Emperor, and both holistic portrayal and authorial intent.

HoT being the strongest Jedi, destined to kill the Emperor, is like literally the point of the character. They didn't have Revan and Surik job for the Emperor and then have the HoT walk up to him and shish kebab him for teh lolz.

Originally posted by AncientPower
If only her opinion wasn't backed up by Lord Scourge, Orgus Din, the Sith Emperor, and both holistic portrayal and authorial intent.

#Holistic Portrayal and #Authorial Intent is basically your gut instinct and interpretation of the character. It means little to me. And yeah, Orgus and Scourge also gave him some nice compliments, but once again none of those compliments refer directly to raw power, nevermind actualized power as of Act I.

It's the same as Blackhole saying RotJ Luke is more powerful than Vader and possibly even more powerful than Palpatine.

Originally posted by AncientPower
HoT being the strongest Jedi, destined to kill the Emperor, is like literally the point of the character. They didn't have Revan and Surik job for the Emperor and then have the HoT walk up to him and shish kebab him for teh lolz.

Yes, the point of his character is to fullfill the prophecy of killing a weakened Host of Vitiate. And he succeeded for about, what, a few months?

Almost universal praise, isn't just dismissed, you have to look at why that praise is given so heavily. Why? Because Bioware decided that Knight = GOAT in terms of TOR.

Hall Hood retconned that, it was actually him that died. The difference was that the Emperor had used massive power during the ritual and it went back in his face. He was vulnerable at that point.

Originally posted by MythLord
Obi-Wan says AotC Anakin is more powerful than him.
No shit.

Originally posted by MythLord
Luke says Kyp is more powerful than him and possibly Sidious, Yoda and Ben.


No, he never, lel.

Tbh, tho, your entire argument here is pretty terrible.

Yea, didn't that only apply to lightsiders?

It can be read that way, yes - especially given the context and strictly Jedi were named.

Luke has never said Kyp was better than him either, only that he could be the be the greatest of them all. A bit different from Satele Shan outright saying HoT is greatest than her in the present form.

Mm, good point Wulfy.

Poor HoT.

You're equating one-off statements from secondary sources to consistent statements regarding the same character throughout multiple in-universe and OOU sources.

Satele also goes on to state at the end of Act I that in the place of the recently dead Orgus Din, the HoT had become a Jedi without equal.

There's no ambiguity here.

What OOU quote states Act 1 Hero > Satele?

Originally posted by AncientPower
You're equating one-off statements from secondary sources to consistent statements regarding the same character throughout multiple in-universe and OOU sources.

Anoon, Kyp and Qel aren't one-offs, though. There's multiple in and out of universe statements about them being GOATs. The same can be said for Dooku and Mace.

Also:
Originally posted by ILS
What OOU quote states Act 1 Hero > Satele?

Good job they can be retconned.

Given that the Hero is outright stated to be more powerful than Darth Angral by the end of Act I. That's the OOU source. Angral who was quite clearly within the realm of Darth Malgus as of Decieved and posdibly onwards. Malgus, obviously, is more powerful than Satele Shan.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Good job they can be retconned.

What does that have to do with anything? LMFAO. They can be retconned? Well, so can HoT's quotes, lol. Point being: they're not valid and don't carry as much weight as you think they do.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Given that the Hero is outright stated to be more powerful than Darth Angral by the end of Act I. That's the OOU source. Angral who was quite clearly within the realm of Darth Malgus as of Decieved and posdibly onwards. Malgus, obviously, is more powerful than Satele Shan.

Dear God that's absolutely retarded.

Proof Angral > Satele? Proof of his close proximity to Malgus?

Angral is Malgus' direct superior in the Sacking of Coruscant and Malgus himself refers to him as his peer as a Sith in BoS.

Having a higher rank in command means jacksh!t, given Adraas was of the same rank as Malgus and we all know how that went down. And when did Malgus call him his peer?
Malgus is by all accounts superior to Angral.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Angral is Malgus' direct superior in the Sacking of Coruscant and Malgus himself refers to him as his peer as a Sith in BoS. Could you post the relevant material?

IIRC, Baras one-shot Angral. And IIRC, AP used the quote of Satele saying that Malgus is the greatest (?) Darkside presence (?) she ever met to prove Hope! Malgus > Baras.

Interesting development.

Baras didn't one-shot him, but he sure as hell was considerably superior to him. So Act I HoT > Angral > Malgus > Satele ~ Baras > Angral > Malgus?

Quite the turn of events. Either that, or AP has her head so far up her ass she's tasting her large intestines.

Please keep pretending Angral as of the Great War is comparable to Angral as of the Sacking of Coruscant.

During the Battle of Ord Radama, Malgus calls Adraas a fool and yet refers to Angral as essentially his only equal.

This is all a moot point though, Hero's own feats can take this quite simply. Scaling just makes it worse for Savage.

Yeah, Savage.

-- Essential Guide to Characters

Th quote specifically mentions Jedi power potential in the first sentence, that can be read to tie in with the Force presence Luke sensed, especially given it goes on to name strictly Jedi, despite the fact Luke thought DE Palpatine was the most powerful being to ever exist.

"
-- Jedi Academy: Leviathan #1

Oh, so you mean Kyp Durron AND Exar Kun? It isn't much of a stretch to think nigh-full potential Durron - armed with knowledge from one of the most deadliest Sith Lords ever- in Exar Kun, could be a greater threat than Palpatine, all things considered. It wasn't Kyp by himself, as you'd have others to believe.


The rest isn't relevant to the Kyp point, nor do I care to comment.

Phuck this shit, why can't I edit my post? But yeah - none of them quotes prove Kyp > Luke or Palpatine. He can be better than old Ben and deathbed Yoda however.

This is all a moot point though, from the start of the prologue we know the HoT is nearly an expert duelist already. His feats as of the prologue make him the greatest Padawan in generations. After the prologue, the Hero is already praised as the most powerful Jedi on Tython by four separate people.

Throughout Act 1 we already have numerous Sith and Jedi all saying he's the most powerful Jedi in the Order, given the sequence of events. Act 1 HoT should already be more powerful than Act II Barsen'thor. A title which is only bestowed upon the most prodigious Force users in Jedi history.

By the end of the Act, Shan calls the HoT the Order's finest. It's not that much after Act 1 that HoT is also bestowed the title of Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. Meaning Act 1 HoT isn't just already well-versed in the seven forms but it also mean the HoT is well on his way to being the premier duelist of the entire Jedi Order.

Let's not even get started on how impressive it is for HoT to have already butchered Darth Angral.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Please keep pretending Angral as of the Great War is comparable to Angral as of the Sacking of Coruscant.

Given no specific power growth was ever mentioned, you'd have an unquantifiable difference between them. Regardless, Shan has Return and Hope Malgus above Baras, who was above Angral. So your "scaling" falls apart.

Originally posted by AncientPower
During the Battle of Ord Radama, Malgus calls Adraas a fool and yet refers to Angral as essentially his only equal.

And then Malgus proceeded to wreck him. See what I'm saying? A higher state of command =/=

Originally posted by AncientPower
This is all a moot point though, Hero's own feats can take this quite simply. Scaling just makes it worse for Savage.

Ah yes, those feats of besting Bengel Morr or whatever his name is, who was better than Orgus Din who as we all know is Count Dooku level.

Originally posted by AncientPower
This is all a moot point though, from the start of the prologue we know the HoT is nearly an expert duelist already. His feats as of the prologue make him the greatest Padawan in generations. After the prologue, the Hero is already praised as the most powerful Jedi on Tython by four separate people.

Throughout Act 1 we already have numerous Sith and Jedi all saying he's the most powerful Jedi in the Order, given the sequence of events. Act 1 HoT should already be more powerful than Act II Barsen'thor. A title which is only bestowed upon the most prodigious Force users in Jedi history.

By the end of the Act, Shan calls the HoT the Order's finest. It's not that much after Act 1 that HoT is also bestowed the title of Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. Meaning Act 1 HoT isn't just already well-versed in the seven forms but it also mean the HoT is well on his way to being the premier duelist of the entire Jedi Order.

Let's not even get started on how impressive it is for HoT to have already butchered Darth Angral.

And none of that puts him above Savage.

He boasts about it himself.

Malgus never fought Angral, he killed Adraas.

Nice laughable lowballing attempt Myth, I'd have thought you were better than that.

Given how massively he scales off of Aryn Leneer, it kinda does.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo


Oh, so you mean Kyp Durron AND Exar Kun? It isn't much of a stretch to think nigh-full potential Durron - armed with knowledge from one of the most deadliest Sith Lords ever- in Exar Kun, could be a greater threat than Palpatine, all things considered. It wasn't Kyp by himself, as you'd have others to believe.

Didn't Luke beat Kun when both were spirits?

Wouldn't that place Luke above palps?

Beat Kun? What are you talking about? The only time they interact is when Luke figures out how to interact in the same way as Kun and touches him. Kun just leaves after that.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He boasts about it himself.

Again, I'd like a legitimate quote. And can you quantify how much he's grown? Even if it's considerable, he'd still at best be equal to the Baras Satele fought and considered sub-Malgus.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Malgus never fought Angral, he killed Adraas.

I was talking Adraas, you imbecile.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nice laughable lowballing attempt Myth, I'd have thought you were better than that.

It's not lowballing, it's his feats are legitimately trash compared to someone frequently giving pause to Asajj Ventress and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Given how massively he scales off of Aryn Leneer, it kinda does.

You've yet to actually either quantify or properly defend that "scaling". Did Satele Shan or Scourge even meet Aryn Leneer directly?

Originally posted by MythLord

giving pause to Asajj Ventress


Originally posted by MythLord

and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

https://youtu.be/aE_CVWMWK74?t=3m35s

Oh boy. No thread would be complete without some Exar wanking + hating.