Jiren vs Beerus

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cdtm
Who wins?

ares834
Hard to say. I'd side with Jiren based on Whis's comments.

Inedian
Beerus

Jmanghan
****ing... Beerus.

lol.

Even new form Goku isn't > Beerus.

bbrem123
Originally posted by Jmanghan
****ing... Beerus.

lol.

Even new form Goku isn't > Beerus.

What makes you say this?

cdtm
Originally posted by bbrem123
What makes you say this?

Going by the manga, Beerus knows Ultra Instinct. Used it against about five GoD, including Bermoufh.

Imperfectly, but probably better then Goku's version.

Damborgson
It's a fair point.

cdtm
Thanks. thumb up

The way I see it, dodging five GoD, then forcing them to hide behind a barrior at his ki attack, is the better feat. Even if Jiren can fight all day with just one, that's a pretty big difference compared what Beerus did.

carver9
Jiren kills him.

ares834
He said that Jiren appears to be the rumored mortal more powerful than a GoD. A GoD that, I may add, according to Whis is more powerful than Beerus.

cdtm
Beerus is more powerful then "a" GoD, too. He just about nearly took out five of them. They admitted a force field ability is the only thing that saved them.

Just because you're a GoD doesn't automatically make you an apex fighter. The fact Toppo is being trained as universe 11's next God of Destruction (He joined the conference of GoD's because of this), and Jiren isn't, proves this.

ares834
manga=/=anime

Anyway, as I said, the GoD Whis was talking about is supposedly stronger than Beerus.

Inedian
Originally posted by ares834
manga=/=anime

Anyway, as I said, the GoD Whis was talking about is supposedly stronger than Beerus.

We will see if this is actually Belmod. Whis was making assumptions.

cdtm
Originally posted by Inedian
We will see if this is actually Belmod. Whis was making assumptions.

Yep.

And Belmod was among the GoD Beerus fought.

Manga and anime may differ, but there's no reason to assume a difference where no stated difference exists. afawk, Belmod is as strong in the manga as he is in the anime, as are all the GoD's..

ares834
Except a stated difference does exist. Whis himself straight out says it.

bbrem123
It basically comes down to the individual who has greater mastery of Ultra Instinct.

Whis says you can overcome any danger if you have it mastered. Which is strange because you have the Grand Priest begin far superior to all other angels even though they have this ability. Making his statement untrue.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by ares834
Except a stated difference does exist. Whis himself straight out says it.

Whis says (Quitela) is stronger because he won an arm wrestling match, which was in the manga, too. That doesn't make him a better fighter, though, and going by the manga he's clearly not.

ares834
In the anime he is seemingly referring to Belmod.

NewGuy01
Possibly. That could very well be a misdirection, though. Well, if you give Toei enough credit to pull of something remotely clever, that is, which I agree is a stretch.

Regardless though, the point stands. An arm wrestling match says almost nothing about how someone will fare in a fight, provided the match isn't horribly lopsided.

cdtm
The anime says a GoD beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match.

The anime says a fighter is stonger then a GoD.

That's all we know from the anime. It doesn't say who is stronger then whom, or if the fighter and GoD was from the same universe, or who beat Beerus in a competitiion.

Nothing contradicts the manga.

bbrem123
Whis: "There is a universe where lives a mortal that even a God of Destruction can't defeat. That God of Destruction happens to be stronger than Beerus."

Beerus: "Dont go saying that. I only lost once at an arm wrestling match."

Quitela(the rat) is the GOD that beat Beerus in an wrestling match. They say it in the manga.
Now looking back at this comment. Makes me think Jiren is not that motal. They make it seem like the mortal is from Quitela's universe. (universe 4)

carver9
I think everyone needs to revisit what Whis said about Jiren vs the GOD. A lot of people here are all off track. Jiren wins this by the way.

Inedian
Originally posted by bbrem123
Whis: "There is a universe where lives a mortal that even a God of Destruction can't defeat. That God of Destruction happens to be stronger than Beerus."

Beerus: "Dont go saying that. I only lost once at an arm wrestling match."

Quitela(the rat) is the GOD that beat Beerus in an wrestling match. They say it in the manga.
Now looking back at this comment. Makes me think Jiren is not that motal. They make it seem like the mortal is from Quitela's universe. (universe 4)

There were differences between manga and anime. Quitela was smiling and was really relaxed with no worries during Jiren and Goku fight tough.

https://i.imgur.com/NvIUZzB.jpg

carver9
Toppo was relaxed as well and Jiren would destroy him.

ares834
Originally posted by bbrem123
Whis: "There is a universe where lives a mortal that even a God of Destruction can't defeat. That God of Destruction happens to be stronger than Beerus."

Beerus: "Dont go saying that. I only lost once at an arm wrestling match."

Quitela(the rat) is the GOD that beat Beerus in an wrestling match. They say it in the manga.
Now looking back at this comment. Makes me think Jiren is not that motal. They make it seem like the mortal is from Quitela's universe. (universe 4)

Whis states that the rumors seem to be true about Jiren indicating that Jiren is said mortal.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Possibly. That could very well be a misdirection, though. Well, if you give Toei enough credit to pull of something remotely clever, that is, which I agree is a stretch.

Regardless though, the point stands. An arm wrestling match says almost nothing about how someone will fare in a fight, provided the match isn't horribly lopsided.

True enough. I didn't realize Beerus mentioned that it was an arm wrestling match immediately afterwards.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by carver9
Toppo was relaxed as well and Jiren would destroy him.

???

cdtm
Yeah, Toppo didn't look relaxed at all.

carver9
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
???

Toppo was standing on the cliff with his arms crossed while Jiren and Goku fought.

Inedian
Originally posted by carver9
Toppo was relaxed as well and Jiren would destroy him.

Toppo and Jiren are sworn friends. Why he wouldn't be relaxed with friend? He knows Jiren would never attack his friend, while Jiren is an opponent to every other universe.
Once LBGoku came out, he wasn't relaxed, he wanted to help his friend.

Probably the worst comparison there ever was on KMC.

And they are beginning to promote that some mysterious new fighter is entering the ToP.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by carver9
Toppo was standing on the cliff with his arms crossed while Jiren and Goku fought.

Toppo didn't look relaxed at all. Toppo was intently staring at the fight. Quitela has his arms behind his head, was smiling, and wasn't even looking at the fight.

carver9
He didn't seem worried either.

Inedian
Originally posted by carver9
He didn't seem worried either.

Why did he wanted to help Jiren then?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by carver9
He didn't seem worried either.

Yes, but not being worried is completely different than literally putting your arms behind your head, smiling, and not even watching the fight. Quitela has something up his sleeve.

carver9
Originally posted by Inedian
Why did he wanted to help Jiren then?

If he felt anything towards Goku transformation, he wouldn't have attacked.

NewGuy01
Toppo was unworried because he was confident in Jiren's ability to win. Quitela being unworried means something entirely different, because both Goku and Jiren are his enemies. Lends credence to the idea that Universe 4 has a secret trump card...

carver9
Probably. We will see. If someone out there is more powerful than Jiren, then that means that person is more powerful than Quitela. I doubt that. The only warriors that is missing is the two invisible Nameks and piccolo is stopping them.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The invisible fighters from U4 are Damon and Gamisarasu, and they're bugs, not Namekians.

ares834
I doubt they are more powerful than Jiren. I expect Quitela's plan is very simple, his two invisible "fighters" are supposed to simply hide until the tournament is over. After all, you win the tournament not by knocking out your opponents but by having the most members left when time is up.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Regardless, the Rat is up to something.

carver9
This episode confirms Jiren is on another level. He destroys Beerus, with ease.

carver9
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The invisible fighters from U4 are Damon and Gamisarasu, and they're bugs, not Namekians.

We see 2 Namekians just now.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes, but they're not from U4, lol. They have nothing to do with Quitela.

carver9
Gotcha. Thanks.

bbrem123
What does this comment really mean from the manga?

Toppo says "By the way, based on combat skill alone...Jiren is stronger than our God of Destruction, Lord Belmod."

NewGuy01
It probably means he's a better fighter, but not as powerful.

cdtm
So Beerus wins, with ease

This was a dumb thread. What idiot made this thread?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Jiren is more powerful than the Gods of Destruction in terms of combat, but the God of Destruction has more authority and possesses energy of Destruction. Based on Golden Frieza's handling of it, however, I bet Jiren could resist being destroyed by it.

Still going with Jiren, here.

Inedian
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Jiren is more powerful than the Gods of Destruction in terms of combat, but the God of Destruction has more authority and possesses energy of Destruction. Based on Golden Frieza's handling of it, however, I bet Jiren could resist being destroyed by it.

Still going with Jiren, here.

GF was handling Sidra small portion with difficulty.

I still stick with Beerus destroying Jiren.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Jiren is more powerful than the Gods of Destruction in terms of combat, but the God of Destruction has more authority and possesses energy of Destruction. Based on Golden Frieza's handling of it, however, I bet Jiren could resist being destroyed by it.

Still going with Jiren, here.


Energy of Destruction isn't a thing in the manga though; even Goku could use Beerus's GoD techniques.

carver9
Energy of destruction???

NewGuy01
In the anime, hakai uses a special "energy of destruction" that only GoDs have. In the manga, anyone can use hakai if they're strong enough and know how.

Prof. T.C McAbe
That is the energy that destroyed almost the Universe when he was fighting Goku. It's like a entropy that has just this property. Though some can resist it.

carver9
Professor doesn't know what he is talking about but Newguy, I see what you mean. I guess that was the reason everyone was shocked that Goku was capable of using it in the manga.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sidra describes what energy of Destruction is:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UmCni81ULhE

carver9
So it's like being erased?

NewGuy01
The difference between being "destroyed" by a GoD and "erased" by Zen-Oh isn't really very well documented. They seem to be basically the same.

cdtm
So who doesn't know what they're talking about? thumb down

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by carver9
So it's like being erased?

Yes.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The difference between being "destroyed" by a GoD and "erased" by Zen-Oh isn't really very well documented. They seem to be basically the same.

thumb up

carver9
It's just like I said then. Being erased is like you being erased from existence.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
...yes.

cdtm
I like the pause, as if in shock or disbelief of the question. laughing out loud

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