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Manga only; who wins and why?

Base Goku.

Originally posted by carver9
Base Goku.

This.

You realize base Freeza, who is > base Goku, needed to go gold to deal with SSJ2 Cabba?

Is base Cabba anywhere near base Goku? Is SSJ2 Cabba anywhere near?

There's also the fact SSJ Goku was = Caulifla.

Base Goku being >>>>> earlier arcs simply doesn't add up. There's zero consistancy.

Originally posted by cdtm
You realize base Freeza, who is > base Goku, needed to go gold to deal with SSJ2 Cabba?

Is base Cabba anywhere near base Goku? Is SSJ2 Cabba anywhere near?

There's also the fact SSJ Goku was = Caulifla.

Base Goku being >>>>> earlier arcs simply doesn't add up. There's zero consistancy.

Manga, Buu saga Goku.

Originally posted by Kento
Manga, Buu saga Goku.

Because, in the manga power levels haven't changed greatly enough that he's 400x his base form from Buu saga in 7 years. The whole base god mode thing the anime had and seems to forget never existed.

Base Goku.

I would argue regardless of Saiyan Beyond God, his experience with God Ki, multiple zen Kai boosts and advanced training by Whis should put him above Buu-Saga SSJ3.

For what it's worth, even after the base-form retcon in the anime, Base Goku was capable of giving Beerus a much better fight than SSJ3 Goku was, and was also capable of easily defeating SSJ3 Gotenks. Though again, this is from the anime.

And if you want to bring up Trunks, I would argue that battling Goku Black multiple times over the course of a year would tremendously boost his strength.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
For what it's worth, even after the base-form retcon in the anime, Base Goku was capable of giving Beerus a much better fight than SSJ3 Goku was, and was also capable of easily defeating SSJ3 Gotenks.





Evidence points towards the opposite; it was Black who was becoming stronger by fighting Trunks. Also, we only know how strong Trunks was after his fights with Black, so I'm not sure how that scaling is supposed to work. In any case, SSJ2 Trunks's (admittedly favorable) comparison to Cell Games Gohan during his spar with Goku leads me to believe he wasn't intended to be hundreds of times stronger.

Well, given the comparison is being made based on the last time Trunks was there, and Goku claiming that Trunks was far stronger than Gohan was at that time, (while Trunks was greatly suppressing his power,) I don't think a legitimate downscaling can be made. As Trunks himself said, he's been busting his ass off for a decade since the Cell Arc, (which means he's been training nonstop even 3 years after the Buu Arc, + Goku Black).

And Black becoming stronger by fighting Trunks doesn't preclude Trunks growing stronger by fighting Black.

My point being that Trunks being as powerful as he is relative to Goku doesn't preclude Goku being above Buu Saga SSJ3.

It's also important to note that a far, far more powerful version of Black than the one that Trunks was no match for in the manga was getting beaten down by SSJ2 Vegeta. So I wouldn't use that sparring match as a definitive way to equate Goku to Buu Saga characters anyways.

Gotta go with SSJ3 Goku. Primarily because I have way too hard of a time believing all these characters in the U6 Saga (and in the upcoming Survival saga) are on a similar level to Buu. Beyond that, I see very little evidence to suggest Goku grew that dramatically.

Originally posted by ares834
Gotta go with SSJ3 Goku. Primarily because I have way too hard of a time believing all these characters in the U6 Saga (and in the upcoming Survival saga) are on a similar level to Buu. Beyond that, I see very little evidence to suggest Goku grew that dramatically.

So then how do you see a fight between base Goku and base Black going down?