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Who wins.

Hmm...tough one

Kylo

Kylo, way too powerful.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Kylo, way too powerful.

What feats does this nimrod have ?

Most notably deflecting lightsaber blows with TK while extremely injured.

Kylo murderstomps.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Most notably deflecting lightsaber blows with TK while extremely injured.

Specifics please.

So he was able to deflect the momentum of weightless weapon apart from the hilt (1 kg), wielded by a person who only just picked up the saber that same day. Christ, looks like Kylo should be ragdolling the entire PT Jedi council.

He was able to deflect the blows of a force enhanced "focused rage mode" Rey whose potential in the Force is probably greater than his, whilst injured and unarmed.


It's a really good feat, actually.

Originally posted by ziggtard
So he was able to deflect the momentum of weightless weapon apart from the hilt (1 kg), wielded by a person who only just picked up the saber that same day. Christ, looks like Kylo should be ragdolling the entire PT Jedi council.
What? Rey disarms him and Kylo deflects Rey's lightsaber attacks with his bare hands, like the Son vs Anakin in TCW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQfLQEzEtrs&t=1m39s

Kylo is hot sh1t, we get it.

Originally posted by Trocity
He was able to deflect the blows of a force enhanced "focused rage mode" Rey whose potential in the Force is probably greater than his, whilst injured and unarmed.


It's a really good feat, actually.

It's really not a good feat until one can tell me exactly how powerful Rey is. Her potential being "greater than Kylo's" is immaterial considering he's the person we're trying to gauge. Look up circular reasoning. Because it's what you're doing here.

Rey's power is irrelevant to this feat. It could be Han Solo doing it and Kylo reflecting lightsaber blows would still be impressive.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What? Rey disarms him and Kylo deflects Rey's lightsaber attacks with his bare hands, like the Son vs Anakin in TCW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQfLQEzEtrs&t=1m39s
Kylo = The Son cuz lightsaber deflecting with hands

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What? Rey disarms him

Not exactly helping the brigade.



Again, the same reply to Trocity. A lightsaber is weightless. So the efficiency of the weapon comes from the speed of the attacker. What can you tell me about the speed of Rey? Zilch. And of course, she overwhelmed him. So much for Kylo's massive power advantage.

Yet you find it fit to compare her to Anakin. And I don't care what "the son does" presumably without any effort on his part. Because it does not tell me how impressive Kylo's feat is. You might as well tell me that the two (Kylo and the Son) are comparable because of their ability to walk normally or speak english.

It should be obvious that the reason I find the feat impressive has nothing to do with the physical aspect of it.

Originally posted by ziggtard
It's really not a good feat until one can tell me exactly how powerful Rey is. Her potential being "greater than Kylo's" is immaterial considering he's the person we're trying to gauge. Look up circular reasoning. Because it's what you're doing here.


Are you shit irl too?

Then there's no reason to find it impressive.

Well stopping a lightsaber with your bare hands mean you are withstanding blows meant to cut through bulk heads and the hulls of Star ships not to mention noy a lot of Jedi are able to do that.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Well stopping a lightsaber with your bare hands mean you are withstanding blows meant to cut through bulk heads and the hulls of Star ships not to mention noy a lot of Jedi are able to do that.

Incorrect again. The reason a lightsaber slashes through the bulkheads and ships hulls is precisely due to the heat it emits when it comes into contact with something solid (at least I'm pretty sure that's how it works), i.e not the thin air between Rey and Ren. He's deflecting momentum of the blade itself with the Force of rey behind it. And given that Rey's best cutting feat with a lightsaber is leaving a skin deep scar on the Sith practitioner, i'd say the ability to deflect such a force is pretty unimpressive.

Interesting, didn't think of interpreting it that way.

Originally posted by ziggtard
Incorrect again. The reason a lightsaber slashes through the bulkheads and ships hulls is precisely due to the heat it emits when it comes into contact with something solid (at least I'm pretty sure that's how it works), i.e not the thin air between Rey and Ren. He's deflecting momentum of the blade itself with the Force of rey behind it. And given that Rey's best cutting feat with a lightsaber is leaving a skin deep scar on the Sith practitioner, i'd say the ability to deflect such a force is pretty unimpressive.

No that's not what happened. It's specifically mentioned how Rey's blow collide with Kylo's mental shield (aka Force Barrier). This means his defense TK is strong enough to tank the power of the lightsaber (capable of cutting through exterior hull of Capital ships for example). How much heat is transferred to the shield (or other material with which is collides) correlates indeed with the strength of the blow however considering Rey at that poit was overpowering Kylo in a pure strength contest (and given even physically average characters have dealt massive blows with the support of the Force) it stands to reason the power behind the blows are of considerable strength.

Note: If he was purely stopping her momentum than Rey's blows wouldn't crash on Kylo's shield because they would be redirected or even stopped.

@DD

It stands to reason that jack shit.

There has been several conversations between your first post and this and precisely all your qualms have been answered. My suggestion, learn to type faster than twenty words per second.

Originally posted by ziggtard
@DD

It stands to reason that jack shit.

There has been several conversations between your first post and this and precisely all your qualms have been answered. My suggestion, learn to type faster than twenty words per second.

No they absolutely haven't but I accept your concession, besides I think that someone who's Master's Thesis is centered around heat transfer does actually know the physics behind it.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9

Note: If he was purely stopping her momentum than Rey's blows wouldn't crash on Kylo's shield because they would be redirected or even stopped.

Ok, so now it's turned from Kylo was stopping her blade with TK to Kylo was using a shield to deflect her blows. I asked you to give me the specifics of the feat. And so far you haven't done a good job.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
No they absolutely haven't but I accept your concession, besides I think that someone who's Master's Thesis is centered around heat transfer does actually know the physics behind it.

No, you simply miss articulated your point.

It he's deflecting her blows with TK, as you had originally stated, than it has absolutely nothing to do with heat transfer, and everything to do with momentum.

If he's deflecting her blows with a physical shield, than yeah, the heat of the blade has some involvement as well as the force of the attacker.

Originally posted by ziggtard
Ok, so now it's turned from Kylo was stopping her blade with TK to Kylo was using a shield to deflect her blows. I asked you to give me the specifics of the feat. And so far you haven't done a good job.

Description of the junior novelization (Ren extended a hand, calling on the Force to ward off her attacks. At first it worked, as she slashed into the iron shield of his will, but then her blade cut across his face. It burned. ). It specifically mentions how her slashes are faced into his shield, which without a doubt implies they collided with his barrier and weren't redirected like you claimed.

Originally posted by ziggtard
No, you simply miss articulated your point.

It he's deflecting her blows with TK, as you had originally stated, than it has absolutely nothing to do with heat transfer, and everything to do with momentum.

If he's deflecting her blows with a physical shield, than yeah, the heat of the blade has some involvement as well as the force of the attacker.

He's fending off her blows with TK by forming a shield. I never used the word 'deflecting' (which still has a very broad meaning).

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Most notably deflecting lightsaber blows with TK while extremely injured.

Originally posted by ziggtard


I stand corrected. At best you can claim I made the wrong choice in my wording but that's really it. Your claim is pretty much against all evidence.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
I stand corrected. At best you can claim I made the wrong choice in my wording but that's really it.

Language matters DD. It can change the entire meaning of a premise - lets eat out, grandpa - let's eat out grandpa. Taken literally, your original post means that he was deflecting her blows with telekinesis. To me such a feat is unquantifiable because it's reliant on a factor we don't know (the speed and strength of Rey). Stopping the blade with a Force barrier is a different power and therefore a different set of physics.




My claim was against your original statement - before you changed the premise with the Junior novel as evidence against. I've never read the junior novel. I watched the film where not a single strike of Reys was deflected by the force. So yes, it appears that Ren can produce a shield strong enough to stop the heat of lightsaber blade (for a while) that's an impressive feat, but all it tells me is that his barrier feats are far more impressive than his skill with a blade itself.

Fair enough.

Kylo

I feel bad for OP. He's the only one here not dealing in hypotheticals and speculation, while the "great minds" of this message board try their best to rationalize Kylo Ren being pedestrian.

Coleman Trebor sweeps. At least his training is "complete"

For what it's worth, I recall George mentioning a couple times that lightsabers were supposed to be heavy compared to normal swords.

Kylo wins, Trebor makes him work for it

Kylo takes the Force and all-out, but Trebor owns in saber duel

Originally posted by McP
Kylo takes the Force and all-out, but Trevor owns in saber duel

Explain?

Kylo Ren.

I have recently re-evaluated my opinion of Kylo. It seems a bit harsh to put him on Trebor level, but sub Ayyla Secura seems just fine.