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pre reboot version Line up

Doctor Polaris
Psycho Pirate
Black Adam
Hunter Zoom
Cheetah
Deathstroke
Bizarro
Doctor Light
Sinestro

Annihilators and Heralds

Quasar
Silver Surfer
Ronan the Accuser
Beta Ray Bill
Gladiator
Firelord
Air Walker

CIS off, bloodlusted

Originally posted by MrMind
pre reboot version Line up

Doctor Polaris
Psycho Pirate
Black Adam
Hunter Zoom
Cheetah
Deathstroke
Bizarro
Doctor Light
Sinestro

Annihilators and Heralds

Quasar
Silver Surfer
Ronan the Accuser
Beta Ray Bill
Gladiator
Firelord
Air Walker

CIS off, bloodlusted

A and H stomp, seriously, what is Deathstroke going to do here. A few Blackholes should sort out the others. Take most of team one into deep space and watch them die.

In all fights with PIS and CIS people forget Surfer is a class A time manipulator. To be honest, this and his ability to warp space-time and give "life" to inanimate objects like Quasimodo actually put him into realms unheard of. He should beat almost everyone.

Except Zoom is faster than all of them.

And Bizarro is just as fast. And now has CIS off.

Enough to KO them solo? Nah. But fast enough to keep them on their toes. Remember, in all their encounters, Zoom has never been bloodlusted.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except Zoom is faster than all of them.

And Bizarro is just as fast. And now has CIS off.

Enough to KO them solo? Nah. But fast enough to keep them on their toes. Remember, in all their encounters, Zoom has never been bloodlusted. In space Zoom is a sitting duck and to be honest, Surfer, if he wants, can alter space-time and slow things down, he can manipulate time. People underestimate what Surfer is, because if he was written using every power he has ever displayed properly he is unbeatable. Ronan also can slow time around him so another's speed becomes pointless.

Who said anything about being in space? Forum rules, they're all starting on the ground,500m from each other,on a featureless battlefield.

Slowing time down doesn't do much. Zoom is in a completely different timeline. He doesn't use speed to move.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Who said anything about being in space? Forum rules, they're all starting on the ground,500m from each other,on a featureless battlefield.

Slowing time down doesn't do much. Zoom is in a completely different timeline. He doesn't use speed to move. Different timelines are no problem to the Surfer, he can slip to other realities in a moment. He can also teleport into Space everyone. I said space in an earlier post, bfr the whole lot into space and watch most of team one lose their shit. Gladiator will wreck Adam for instance and Quasar should beat Sinestro.

Quasar btw has some awesome speed feats for travel... Truly awesome.

Air walker as an android kills Psycho Pirate first

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Different timelines are no problem to the Surfer, he can slip to other realities in a moment. He can also teleport into Space everyone. I said space in an earlier post, bfr the whole lot into space and watch most of team one lose their shit. Gladiator will wreck Adam for instance and Quasar should beat Sinestro.

Quasar btw has some awesome speed feats for travel... Truly awesome.

Oh yeah, if they have the chance to go exotic, team 2 can def win.

Am just saying, the chance to do so is hard when they could potentially be tied up straight off the bat.

Cheetah too was upgraded substantially by Zoom, so she's another speedster who could distract.

And then all that energy floating around the place is just begging for Dr Light to play with.

It's no stomp, by any means.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Different timelines are no problem to the Surfer, he can slip to other realities in a moment. He can also teleport into Space everyone. I said space in an earlier post, bfr the whole lot into space and watch most of team one lose their shit. Gladiator will wreck Adam for instance and Quasar should beat Sinestro.

Quasar btw has some awesome speed feats for travel... Truly awesome.
ermm

What? Sinestro can match Surfer any day of the week. Adam is going to destroy Gladiator.

Quasar? The same guy who took YEARS to reach Uranus from Earth? That guy?

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans18/Q2_Opening.jpg

Psycho pirate wins.

Originally posted by Zack M
Psycho pirate wins.

almost forgot how cool he was back in the day
along with Johnny Sorrow

Yeah Psycho Pirate has messed with Red Tornado.....Air Walker wouldn't be immune.

I don't know. Those are two pretty op teams. Is that the normal team lineup tho?

I feel like some if DC's team doesn't belong here and is fodder but doesn't really matter as it's pretty evenly matched regardless.

Gonna wait before I decide. good match.

Originally posted by abhilegend
ermm

What? Sinestro can match Surfer any day of the week. Adam is going to destroy Gladiator.

Quasar? The same guy who took YEARS to reach Uranus from Earth? That guy?

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans18/Q2_Opening.jpg Just about the most disingenuous post ever, and no Sinestro is not on the same level as Surfer and no, Adam is not going to destroy Gladiator and Quasar when he has full use of the Quantum field is faster than anyone around the universe. It was this ability that had him Marshal the fastest being alive race.

Is that the race where they couldn't go above lightspeed? Because nothing in Marvel can go above that?

Buried Alien/Fast Forward did.

psycho pirate has almost no durability and would die as collateral damage almost immediately. he'd never close the starting distance alive without help at least. stroke? odd choice... zoom and cheetah are basically neutered since they are ground bound. zoom could take someone out, but he couldn't take everyone and there are guys like ss who can manipulate time if needed.

i think annihilators take this. sinestro, adam and bizzarro are the tough ones.

Zoom and Pirate are the most powerful ones.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Just about the most disingenuous post ever, and no Sinestro is not on the same level as Surfer and no, Adam is not going to destroy Gladiator and Quasar when he has full use of the Quantum field is faster than anyone around the universe. It was this ability that had him Marshal the fastest being alive race.
Of course. I'm just supposed to take your word at granted.

Lulz @ Quasar being the fastest one. He has maybe the most pathetic travel speed feats for any cosmic character.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course. I'm just supposed to take your word at granted.

Lulz @ Quasar being the fastest one. He has maybe the most pathetic travel speed feats for any cosmic character. And out come the out of context scans... I'm a bigger DC fan than anyone and I was suggesting Superman could beat Thanos, long before you were a member here. But I'm balanced and I also am well aware of what the likes of Quasar are.

Originally posted by leonidas
psycho pirate has almost no durability and would die as collateral damage almost immediately. he'd never close the starting distance alive without help at least. stroke? odd choice... zoom and cheetah are basically neutered since they are ground bound. zoom could take someone out, but he couldn't take everyone and there are guys like ss who can manipulate time if needed.

i think annihilators take this. sinestro, adam and bizzarro are the tough ones.

He doesnt need durability not when he can incapacitate the entire field with an emotionally faced glance. Based on forum rules and the way basic kmowledge works pirite would be seen as the second lowest threat on the opposimg team. Black Adam, Bizzaro, Zoom, Simestro, Cheetah, Dr Light hell even Polaris are all far better known to the public with more public appearances against more noteable and known heroes. On a threat matix he wouldn't even be high on antones radar given its 9 vs 7. While the Annihilators start off to take out the higher threats pirate glances theit way in a panic stricken face and effectively puts the team on the back foot and teduces their effectiveness immensely making those you said not a factor a very large one.

In a battle of more even numbers given everone on the field for the Annihilators except maybe ronan (possibly BRB also but debatable as better speed feats than Thor)moves fast enough to not allow pirate a chance to make such a face you might have a point.

Way I see it if the Annihilators actually rank him as a high enough threat to take out first they should win in a hard fought battle. If they dont no one is resisting his emotional manipulation and they loose pretty quick.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
And out come the out of context scans... I'm a bigger DC fan than anyone and I was suggesting Superman could beat Thanos, long before you were a member here. But I'm balanced and I also am well aware of what the likes of Quasar are.
What context is there? Really curious.

And Surfer has been mindcontrolled twice by psycho man, a bootleg version of Psycho Pirate.

Gladiator would be a prime candidate for Physco Purate.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What context is there? Really curious. Often with you the context is determined for highballing or lowballing a character.

I mean Abhi, no offence but you have 10 Billion posts that all say the same thing.

I love Superman as a character too, be true to his ideals a little more.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Often with you the context is determined for highballing or lowballing a character.

I mean Abhi, no offence but you have 10 Billion posts that all say the same thing.

I love Superman as a character too, be true to his ideals a little more.
Eh? I'm asking for this imaginary context.

But show us these imaginary travel speed feats for Quasar. Better yet, just tell me issue number and I'll post those for you.

So Abhi, you are saying you have never heard of the Quantum Jump? Google it... Seriously...

Quantum jump isn't a travel speed feat. He just teleports using quantum zone.

On a side note

Based on the scene after the hugely long credits in Justice league looks like if we ever get a JLA 2 secret Society of Super Villains may be on the cards.

Then again we didnt get Thanos in Avengers 2 so maybe not

Originally posted by abhilegend
Quantum jump isn't a travel speed feat. He just teleports using quantum zone.

I'd agree with this. Its the same way GL's cover galaxies and Surfer travels. The word jump sort of gives it away.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
So Abhi, you are saying you have never heard of the Quantum Jump? Google it... Seriously...

That's like saying Batman has the best speed feats in all of the street levellers....

Because he uses JLA teleporters to instantly travel to the Moon.

effectively speaking for the match its the same thing though. and @boks--i disagree totally with your assessment. the team's common knowledge would let them no he is an emotional manipulator. it also requires that he make direct, visual contact. from starting distances, attacks--huge, high level attacks--would be unleashed immediately. his only chance would be if sinestro were protecting him. if they did that there is a chance he could have an impact. otherwise he is squashed like a bug. most of the fight would also be taking place from the air. again, unless he's got protection he's pretty much useless unless someone on the annihilators walks right up to him. /shrug

if he is capable of affecting people from a large distance that would change things. otherwise can't really see marvel losing this one.

During infinite Crisis, Barry picked Physco Purate up and ran with him through all of the AMs shadow demons, turning them mad and setting them loose on the AM.

Zoom could do the same, no?

Originally posted by leonidas
effectively speaking for the match its the same thing though. and @boks--i disagree totally with your assessment. the team's common knowledge would let them no he is an emotional manipulator. it also requires that he make direct, visual contact. from starting distances, attacks--huge, high level attacks--would be unleashed immediately. his only chance would be if sinestro were protecting him. if they did that there is a chance he could have an impact. otherwise he is squashed like a bug. most of the fight would also be taking place from the air. again, unless he's got protection he's pretty much useless unless someone on the annihilators walks right up to him. /shrug

if he is capable of affecting people from a large distance that would change things. otherwise can't really see marvel losing this one.
Huh? He can control entire planets after COIE. Medusa mask is OP as **** in terms emotional manipulation and it doesn't require eye contact.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Quantum jump isn't a travel speed feat. He just teleports using quantum zone. Of course it's a travel speed feat.

He travels a great distance in the ordinary universe instantaneously through jumping through the Quantum zone. He goes directly to the destination, instantaneously. He has travelled from 1 point to another instantaneously. He has therefore travelled instantaneously. Because he has changed locations instantaneously.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Of course it's a travel speed feat.

He travels a great distance in the ordinary universe instantaneously through jumping through the Quantum zone. He goes directly to the destination, instantaneously. He has travelled from 1 point to another instantaneously. He has therefore travelled instantaneously. Because he has changed locations instantaneously.

Just curious. How would this help in a battle, and wouldn't that be considered self-BFR?

Originally posted by leonidas
effectively speaking for the match its the same thing though. and @boks--i disagree totally with your assessment. the team's common knowledge would let them no he is an emotional manipulator. it also requires that he make direct, visual contact. from starting distances, attacks--huge, high level attacks--would be unleashed immediately. his only chance would be if sinestro were protecting him. if they did that there is a chance he could have an impact. otherwise he is squashed like a bug. most of the fight would also be taking place from the air. again, unless he's got protection he's pretty much useless unless someone on the annihilators walks right up to him. /shrug

if he is capable of affecting people from a large distance that would change things. otherwise can't really see marvel losing this one.

Abhi beat me too it.

He has controlled people from a huge range. Entire cities/planets (one of tje scens in COIE itself had him simltaineously affecting several worlds at once- not sure of the canoninity)

Pre Crisis he had to have line of sight not post.

I mean seriously the guy has soloed several JSA line ups with quite a few powerhouses like those here. Is that supposed to be irrelivant?? Do only the marvel team of heroes opperate at their best as per forum rules and not the DC villians???

hmm, pirate bears some investigating or some scans at the very least. i must have been thinking pre-crisis. if he is so haxx how is it he loses...? need to do some checking on him when i get some time to do so.

Originally posted by Faceless808
Just curious. How would this help in a battle, and wouldn't that be considered self-BFR? He can do it to others and he has nano second reactions part of the whole quantum band deal. He can shunt them into the quantum zone, not sure sinestro can get out of there. I doubt it tbh, but it's possible he could.

Zoom is faster.

Originally posted by Zack M
Zoom is faster. Well, not in space travel terms he isn't.

http://i.imgur.com/j7AxJTe.png

Quasar reacts inside a nanosecond.

Zoom operates beyond that.....

WAAAAY beyond that.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Of course it's a travel speed feat.

He travels a great distance in the ordinary universe instantaneously through jumping through the Quantum zone. He goes directly to the destination, instantaneously. He has travelled from 1 point to another instantaneously. He has therefore travelled instantaneously. Because he has changed locations instantaneously.
ermm

Not only is it not instantaneous but it's called teleportation. Not a speed feat.

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, pirate bears some investigating or some scans at the very least. i must have been thinking pre-crisis. if he is so haxx how is it he loses...? need to do some checking on him when i get some time to do so.

Best I can recall he got amped by a deal with Neron in underworld unleashed. He was a reaccuring villain vs Jared Stephens version of Fate who's ability to resist mental manipulation was so up there even a disembodied energy form Nabu got kicked out of his head in instants. That added with his ability to see thru reality means that the new ability pirate had to illusion cast is pretty pointless. Sort of the perfect foil for him.

Kon el as I recall was pretty easily made to fight Kal el. I cant recall how but IIRC they beat pirate because Kon was able to get the mask off him and use it against him. I'm sure abhi could fill in the blanks.

He's one of the few few characters i prefer the nu52 version of. More of a standard TPer who could mentally trouble Superboy and Superman from a distance at the same time. Notice superman squad I said trouble, so dont get all het up

I also vaguely recall something referring to the mask allowing him to regenerate the reason he supposedly came back from the dead twice

Originally posted by abhilegend
ermm

Not only is it not instantaneous but it's called teleportation. Not a speed feat. So extradimensional travel isn't travelling, because... Abi doesn't like the fact that kind of travelling is faster.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Zoom operates beyond that..... He does but not shunted into the Q zone he doesn't or Q jumped into the heart of a sun.

But before Quasar can do it....he'd be punched in the face. And again. And again.

He was fighting a bloodlusted Wally, and was so fast he left in the middle of their fight, ran to check up on Linda in the hospital hundreds of miles away,and returned to the fight without Flash even registering he had left. That's insane levels.

Forum rules specifically state that when the fight starts, they're ALL on the ground. No shields, no defensive/offensive actions etc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But before Quasar can do it....he'd be punched in the face. And again. And again.

He was fighting a bloodlusted Wally, and was so fast he left in the middle of their fight, ran to check up on Linda in the hospital hundreds of miles away,and returned to the fight without Flash even registering he had left. That's insane levels.

Forum rules specifically state that when the fight starts, they're ALL on the ground. No shields, no defensive/offensive actions etc. It is insane levels but you are assuming Zoom goes for Quasar first and if he does Ronan turns on the time dilation or Surfer turns on the time dilation affecting zooms timeline. They shunt them all into space or better yet the heart of a sun which all the A team will survive. They then deal with the remaining secret Society members.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
So extradimensional travel isn't travelling, because... Abi doesn't like the fact that kind of travelling is faster.

Yes its travelling, it just isnt using speed to do so.
Its not covering any distance, its making two points in space or dimension next to each other.

Speed is the rate of movement. The movement of someone who teleports in actual distance is inches, they've simply bent spavenso that thousands of km or light years away is now nextnto them. Its literally how things like an Einstein Rosen bridge are explained to those who cant understand

He's fast enough to go for ALL of them first, lol. That's what I'm getting at.

Then there's Cheetah, who was also upgraded by Zoom.

Bizarro, who could keep up with Zoom - and now has CIS off. So an intelligent Bizarro, with all his powers (freeze vision etc).

Psycho Pirate, who if we're to believe some of the posts here, can control entire planets etc.

Black Adam, no slow poke himself.

Zoom could punch all of them and repeat it. He made speedsters like Jay Garrick think he was invisible, he was that fast when blitzing them.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
It is insane levels but you are assuming Zoom goes for Quasar first and if he does Ronan turns on the time dilation or Surfer turns on the time dilation affecting zooms timeline. They shunt them all into space or better yet the heart of a sun which all the A team will survive. They then deal with the remaining secret Society members.

Zoom moves so gast he could punch all of them.before they thought to do that. Wally reacts in picoseconds at base (not nano as youve said for quasat etc). When he was amped by speed stealing from Jay, Bart and Jessie he still saw Zoom as only a blur. Zoom is disconnexted from time, he alters his relative rate of time to anyone else at a whim. It doesnt matter how fast you are or can get he's always faster. Everyone looks like they are slow motioned zoom.

I've made many troll threads over the years using Zoom and other Flashes with the speed premise, perhaps the funniest I defended was Zoom with the ebony blade Vs. Marvel Earth how quickly can he kill the population including all heroes.

thing is, no matter how fast he is... It's never actually going to go down like that. He loses always.

Zoom is too strong, terrible matchup for forum fights tbh.

Remove him and it's a good fight!

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
I've made many troll threads over the years using Zoom and other Flashes with the speed premise, perhaps the funniest I defended was Zoom with the ebony blade Vs. Marvel Earth how quickly can he kill the population including all heroes.

thing is, no matter how fast he is... It's never actually going to go down like that. He loses always.

it does when the OP says CIS off and that he is bloodlusted.
he is normally bound by his character restraints that prevent him from killing who he fights because he wants to make them better heroes by experiencing tragety. he doesn't want to harm who he fights he wants to make them better. killing maiming those close to them he has no problem with and no one can everstop him from doing so.

Flashes IMHO are over rated on forums but Zoom is the threat many try to say the Flash is

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
So extradimensional travel isn't travelling, because... Abi doesn't like the fact that kind of travelling is faster.
ermm

It's called teleportation. Not flying speed wise. Makkari has blitzed him casually.

Batman has travel speed feats, going from Gotham to the Moon

quasar has auto shields. /shrug

from what i've heard i'm still not sure how pirate doesn't solo....? zoom is always a pain but ww took the best shots we've ever seen him throw. looking at his best in-book offense he's likely to smash them and send them flying then they can get back in the fight although i suppose there are ways around that if we go full on forum zoom. i prefer book zoom otherwise the debates just get stupid and he beats galactus and other cosmic beings. /shrug

CIS is off but PIS isn't PIS will screw Zoom in any plot I write.

As for Quantum jumping not being a travel feat. IT doesn't matter if you take a train, bus, car, teleport or fly. Speed=Distance traveled over time. Travelling is travelling and speed is speed.

Lol forum rules mean PIS is off by default.

Edit:. So Batman is incredibly fast, right? JLA teleporters and all that?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol forum rules mean PIS is off by default.

Edit:. So Batman is incredibly fast, right? JLA teleporters and all that?

In the same way Tony Stark is Repulsor tech and all that or you are fast train. Yes.

Lol. The ENTIRE point of teleportation is that the distance is reduced.

So your post about speed being distance travelled etc is incredibly wrong.

It's like saying I'm faster than the world's fastest marathon runners, because I travelled from the start point to the end point in 30 mins, while they took over two hours.....

Because I used a shortcut.

The whole point of teleportation and the Q jump is that it's a shortcut.

Yeah, warping space also reduces the distance, Space gets longer behind and shorter in front of a warp bubble. As does entering the speed force which is similar. But I get it, you want a double standard. No problem, it doesn't change the fact the distance between A-B has been traversed in a specified time. But you know, changing the goalposts and all that because you don't want to be wrong. Sadly you can't change physics and Speed is distanced covered (in this dimension) over time (in this dimension). It doesn't matter if you've gone extradimensional or warped space/time to do it. You've still covered X distance in relativistic space. Faster than relativistic Physics allows for.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Yeah, warping space also reduces the distance, Space gets longer behind and shorter in front of a warp bubble. As does entering the speed force which is similar. But I get it, you want a double standard. No problem, it doesn't change the fact the distance between A-B has been traversed in a specified time. But you know, changing the goalposts and all that because you don't want to be wrong. Sadly you can't change physics and Speed is distanced covered (in this dimension) over time (it this dimension). It doesn't matter if you've gone extradimensional or warped space/time to do it.

Lol teleportation changes the rules of physics. No double standard. THAT'S THE POINT OF TELEPORTATION, lol.

Like I said. It's like going from the start to the finish line at a marathon - but I used a shortcut through the back alleys. Does that make me the fastest marathon runner alive, if I start at the same time as all the others but arrive at the end point 1 hour before anyone else?

Zoom isn't faster, as noted by WW and Flash. His powers work by time manipulation.

Doesn't mean that he can't react and punch people faster than they can react and punch back, though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol teleportation changes the rules of physics. No double standard. THAT'S THE POINT OF TELEPORTATION, lol.

Like I said. It's like going from the start to the finish line at a marathon - but I used a shortcut through the back alleys. Does that make me the fastest marathon runner alive, if I start at the same time as all the others but arrive at the end point 1 hour before anyone else?

Zoom isn't faster, as noted by WW and Flash. His powers work by time manipulation.

Doesn't mean that he can't react and punch people faster than they can react and punch back, though.

Time manipulation is also altering the laws of physics-your whole argument is a strawman, because you are not taking a shortcut in relativistic space. You are travelling a distance in relativistic space. Warping is the same the distance has been changed in relation to the time variable. Going into the speed force is a shortcut, just like the Q zone, altering the time variable is a shortcut, warping space is a shortcut. By changing the timeline it's as much a shortcut as anything else. In fact more so.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Time manipulation is also altering the laws of physics-your whole argument is a strawman, because you are not taking a shortcut in relativistic space. You are travelling a distance in relativistic space. Warping is the same the distance has been changed in relation to the time variable.

I know.

I never argued that Zoom didn't break the laws of physics, lol.

It's the exact same argument. You're just throwing random words in there - but the fact remains:

The race starts at 10am

By 11am, whilst everyone else is still running, I show up at the finish line. Did I travel there by shortcuts, by teleportation, or by running really fast? Doesn't matter, I still took 1 hour to go from Point A to Point B.

You're arguing that teleportation is the same as running really fast (travelling is travelling). The end result IS the same, I 100% agree - but the implications are completely different.

With Zoom (back to the thread) he exists in a constant time stop.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124784/2963222-5600106189-8uv0..jpg

So from his perspective, EVERYONE is frozen in time. Quasar may have great teleportation feats - but that means nothing in this thread - just like Lois Lane using the JLA teleporters to instantly travel from Metropolis to the Moon doesn't mean she can fight Zoom, lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I know.

I never argued that Zoom didn't break the laws of physics, lol.

It's the exact same argument. You're just throwing random words in there - but the fact remains:

The race starts at 10am

By 11am, whilst everyone else is still running, I show up at the finish line. Did I travel there by shortcuts, by teleportation, or by running really fast? Doesn't matter, I still took 1 hour to go from Point A to Point B.

You're arguing that teleportation is the same as running really fast (travelling is travelling). The end result IS the same, I 100% agree - but the implications are completely different.

With Zoom (back to the thread) he exists in a constant time stop.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124784/2963222-5600106189-8uv0..jpg

So from his perspective, EVERYONE is frozen in time. Quasar may have great teleportation feats - but that means nothing in this thread - just like Lois Lane using the JLA teleporters to instantly travel from Metropolis to the Moon doesn't mean she can fight Zoom, lol.

I'm not throwing random words in at all. I'm using definitions from High-School level Physics, I could go beyond that if you like. I haven't argued Quasar is a match for Zoom's Speed. I have argued if given a nano second which he would get in this Scenario, he can teleport everyone into the heart of a sun and the A team deal with whatever Secret Society members are left alive.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
I'm not throwing random words in at all. I'm using definitions from High-School level Physics, I could go beyond that if you like. I haven't argued Quasar is a match for Zoom's Speed. I have argued if given a nano second which he would get in this Scenario, he can teleport everyone into the heart of a sun and the A team deal with whatever Secret Society members are left alive.

Wally has entire fights in a single picosecond, lol:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/3837355-2105687924-profz.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11113/111130781/3837356-2286837633-profz.jpg

That's PROFESSOR Zoom, btw. Eobard Thawne, NOT Zoom, Hunter Zolomon in this thread.

1 nanosecond = 1000picoseconds. IOW, Wally West is capable of doing all of the above - running, IMPs, gloating, vibrating death touch - 1000 times in the time it would take Quasar to do this teleport.

That's Wally.

ZOLOMON was casually batting away picosecond level Wally with one hand whilst talking to him:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140449/4681449-6373013903-35254.jpg

When Wally was amped, with the speed of both Bart and Jay, Zolomon was still able to run thousands of miles away to visit Linda in Keystone City - MID-FIGHT, without even amped Wally noticing:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/124784/3525431-file0022a.jpg

Hell, it wasn't even a quick visit. He had time to go through her medical records, lol.

https://static.vix.com/es/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/btg/flash-vs-zoom-maldad-extrema.jpg

So in summary: Wally is capable of having 1000 fights in the nanosecond it takes for Quasar to teleport someone (this ignores the point that his travel speed =/= reflex speed, but whatever). Despite this speed, Zolomon treated an amped version like a red-headed stepchild - whilst holding back on Wally.

IOW, in this thread, a nanosecond to teleport people is a lifetime for Zoom. He could punch, run and check the latest football scores, read some books, cook dinner, run back and punch them all again etc etc.

Or just do this with the good old Psycho Pirate:
https://s8.postimg.org/o9j9vfzs5/crisis-08-death-of-flash-005.jpg

https://s8.postimg.org/g417xaqyt/crisis-08-death-of-flash-006.jpg

https://s8.postimg.org/omao1n579/crisis-08-death-of-flash-007.jpg

There, Barry is grabbing the Pirate, and showing his face to every single Thunderer, making them all attack the AM.

Yeah, read all the comics there... and I'm well aware of what Wally, Barry, Zoom can do. Do you really see Zoom soloing the Annihilators?

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Yeah, read all the comics there... and I'm well aware of what Wally, Barry, Zoom can do. Do you really see Zoom soloing the Annihilators?

Not soloing.

Tying them up and distracting them enough for the others to get their licks in.

Psycho Pirate is physically the weakest - but if given the time to operate, could solo the field.

Time which the speedsters can buy him.

Then there's Bizarro. When Superman was in control (i.e. Bizarro's CIS was no longer in effect) he said this:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111283034/5670704-5649676-9944290360-42355.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not soloing.

Tying them up and distracting them enough for the others to get their licks in.

Psycho Pirate is physically the weakest - but if given the time to operate, could solo the field.

Time which the speedsters can buy him.

Then there's Bizarro. When Superman was in control (i.e. Bizarro's CIS was no longer in effect) he said this:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111283034/5670704-5649676-9944290360-42355.jpg I'm not getting into Psycho Pirate the mask is magic... It's quite likely it will affect most people or everyone on the field, but Ronan has some defence to the mystical (The Kree actually know magic what would you expect of an ancient star spanning empire.) as does Beta Ray Bill. Quasar may or may not be resistant, he has resisted Overmind and Moondragon, but that's TP not magic. Quasar doesn't like Magic.

Bizarro is not stronger than Superman because of as Superman says the way his brain works.

Back to Zoom he is either able to defeat them all at once due to his speed or... He isn't.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wally has entire fights in a single picosecond, lol:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/3837355-2105687924-profz.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11113/111130781/3837356-2286837633-profz.jpg

That's PROFESSOR Zoom, btw. Eobard Thawne, NOT Zoom, Hunter Zolomon in this thread.

1 nanosecond = 1000picoseconds. IOW, Wally West is capable of doing all of the above - running, IMPs, gloating, vibrating death touch - 1000 times in the time it would take Quasar to do this teleport.

That's Wally.

ZOLOMON was casually batting away picosecond level Wally with one hand whilst talking to him:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140449/4681449-6373013903-35254.jpg

When Wally was amped, with the speed of both Bart and Jay, Zolomon was still able to run thousands of miles away to visit Linda in Keystone City - MID-FIGHT, without even amped Wally noticing:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/124784/3525431-file0022a.jpg

Hell, it wasn't even a quick visit. He had time to go through her medical records, lol.

https://static.vix.com/es/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/btg/flash-vs-zoom-maldad-extrema.jpg

So in summary: Wally is capable of having 1000 fights in the nanosecond it takes for Quasar to teleport someone (this ignores the point that his travel speed =/= reflex speed, but whatever). Despite this speed, Zolomon treated an amped version like a red-headed stepchild - whilst holding back on Wally.

IOW, in this thread, a nanosecond to teleport people is a lifetime for Zoom. He could punch, run and check the latest football scores, read some books, cook dinner, run back and punch them all again etc etc.

Or just do this with the good old Psycho Pirate:
https://s8.postimg.org/o9j9vfzs5/crisis-08-death-of-flash-005.jpg

https://s8.postimg.org/g417xaqyt/crisis-08-death-of-flash-006.jpg

https://s8.postimg.org/omao1n579/crisis-08-death-of-flash-007.jpg

There, Barry is grabbing the Pirate, and showing his face to every single Thunderer, making them all attack the AM.

Damn!