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The casting coach was once considered a right of passage for starlets and perhaps young male stars also.

I don't doubt this is also true in other walks of life, where people have much to gain, they sell their sexuality. To a point, it's what attractive people have often traded on consciously.

Whilst clearly an abhorrent activity, with historical sexual abuse in Hollywood are we forgetting times and social norms have changed?

Everyone has a price, posssibly?

Etc?

Are all peons chattel?

When they stop being peons might the ex chattel indulge?

I don't really understand your overall point. You made a new thread for it though, so it must be somewhat important. Would you be able to clarify?

Originally posted by Scribble
I don't really understand your overall point. You made a new thread for it though, so it must be somewhat important. Would you be able to clarify?

Time/Society/The nature of people/attributing standards of today to actions of the past/how peoples positions change how they perceive their own reality etc.

How far back do we have to go before we stop applying modern standards of decency, though? Surely assault is assault, even outside of context. Just because "noncing was standard back in the '70s" doesn't mean those nonces shouldn't have to face their crimes. It's not like social standards of the time have any effect on the victims and their lives.

Originally posted by Scribble
How far back do we have to go before we stop applying modern standards of decency, though? Surely assault is assault, even outside of context. Just because "noncing was standard back in the '70s" doesn't mean those nonces shouldn't have to face their crimes. It's not like social standards of the time have any effect on the victims and their lives.

Well that's the question, isn't it. You clearly feel the morals of today should be attributed to the past when perhaps people did not see things in the same way. I don't agree or disagree at this point.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Well that's the question, isn't it. You clearly feel the morals of today should be attributed to the past when perhaps people did not see things in the same way. I don't agree or disagree at this point. I'm just saying that, generally, social morals and perspectives don't really dictate how someone feels after getting raped.


"I just got raped, but hey, it is the 1960s!"

It's irrelevant though. What was acceptable in the past doesn't change what's unacceptable now.

Originally posted by socool8520
It's irrelevant though. What was acceptable in the past doesn't change what's unacceptable now.

Really? Interesting.

Well, slavery was acceptable in the past but it clearly isn't now. This would be one of those times when change was needed or made things better. Same with the treatment of women. It is a good change that assaulting women is unacceptable, or at least much more so than in the past.

Btw, I know a fair bit about film history, and your description of the casting couch is kind of off. Young male and female actors had no idea that they would be forced to have sex with someone as the final stage of becoming a 'star', and most went along with it through naivety. It wasn't a rite of passage, it was institutionalised abuse, even then.

Originally posted by socool8520
It is a good change that assaulting women is unacceptable

i don't believe it was acceptable. it was just acceptable practice to casually dismiss all accusations based on 'what she was wearing', her background, locker room talk, her past intimate relationships, etc. as a means of sliming her character and generally implying that she really did want it.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
i don't believe it was acceptable. it was just acceptable practice to casually dismiss all accusations based on 'what she was wearing', her background, locker room talk, her past intimate relationships, etc. as a means of sliming her character and generally implying that she really did want it.

Right, that's I said or at least more unacceptable due to the reasons you have stated.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
The casting coach was once considered a right of passage for starlets and perhaps young male stars also.

I don't doubt this is also true in other walks of life, where people have much to gain, they sell their sexuality. To a point, it's what attractive people have often traded on consciously.

Whilst clearly an abhorrent activity, with historical sexual abuse in Hollywood are we forgetting times and social norms have changed?

Everyone has a price, posssibly?

Etc?

Are all peons chattel?

When they stop being peons might the ex chattel indulge?

I'd gladly serve my ass and balls up to a disgusting rich old guy if it meant I would get put in a movie that netted me $2 million with the options to network with his other pervs and open doors to other ways to make more of that kind of money. Do my time in the butt-bashing for a few years and graduate.

Dude...not to say it's okay to abuse people and take advantage of them but I'm a dirty dirty whore who would gladly do tricks for that amount of money.

Need me to make monkey sounds to get off? Fine. Need me to helicopter my dick while you lick my feet? No problem.

That's a shit-ton of money.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'd gladly serve my ass and balls up to a disgusting rich old guy if it meant I would get put in a movie that netted me $2 million with the options to network with his other pervs and open doors to other ways to make more of that kind of money. Do my time in the butt-bashing for a few years and graduate.

Dude...not to say it's okay to abuse people and take advantage of them but I'm a dirty dirty whore who would gladly do tricks for that amount of money.

Need me to make monkey sounds to get off? Fine. Need me to helicopter my dick while you lick my feet? No problem.

That's a shit-ton of money. If you've got what it takes, why the **** not. Gotta be honest about it like.


I'd never do it because ain't nobody going near my butt. Nobody. Not ever. No.

Hmmm... maybe... just maybe... it's not a good idea for society to treat sex as some casual transactional thing.

This THREAD is NOTHING but Stevie trying to "RATIONALIZE"
how its OK for One Side to Act like Sex Pervs while it is NOT Ok for Others to do the same.

aka... its ok for LEFTYWOOD to Rape and Molest because..."Fame/Politics".

Originally posted by socool8520
Well, slavery was acceptable in the past but it clearly isn't now. This would be one of those times when change was needed or made things better. Same with the treatment of women. It is a good change that assaulting women is unacceptable, or at least much more so than in the past.

Not in the west true. But in the middle east, it's the norm.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'd gladly serve my ass and balls up to a disgusting rich old guy if it meant I would get put in a movie that netted me $2 million with the options to network with his other pervs and open doors to other ways to make more of that kind of money. Do my time in the butt-bashing for a few years and graduate.

Dude...not to say it's okay to abuse people and take advantage of them but I'm a dirty dirty whore who would gladly do tricks for that amount of money.

Need me to make monkey sounds to get off? Fine. Need me to helicopter my dick while you lick my feet? No problem.

That's a shit-ton of money.

If you're willing to do that much for 2 mil, i wonder what you'll do for a klondite bar.

Okay, and I think we agree that there attachment to outdated and disgusting views on women is not acceptable right? Only strengthens my original point.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'd gladly serve my ass and balls up to a disgusting rich old guy if it meant I would get put in a movie that netted me $2 million with the options to network with his other pervs and open doors to other ways to make more of that kind of money. Do my time in the butt-bashing for a few years and graduate.

Dude...not to say it's okay to abuse people and take advantage of them but I'm a dirty dirty whore who would gladly do tricks for that amount of money.

Need me to make monkey sounds to get off? Fine. Need me to helicopter my dick while you lick my feet? No problem.

That's a shit-ton of money.

Bingo as Rob would say. Sometimes, these "sexual assaults" may have been a transaction perhaps even a predatory one to achieve their aims from a now aggrieved party. Who knows? I'm just not sure everything is always as cut and dried as we are led to believe and that comes from a guy who is a feminist in the sense he believes in equality of opportunity for the sexes.

For instance Raisen offered me 400K Sterling to **** his pussy ass, I don't mind getting shit on my dick for 400K, I just don't think he actually has the money.

^ While I'm sure you are correct that some of these allegations had less than cut and dry circumstances, it doesn't change the fact that the accused were piss poor people morally.

Originally posted by socool8520
^ While I'm sure you are correct that some of these allegations had less than cut and dry circumstances, it doesn't change the fact that the accused were piss poor people morally.

No doubt, but not the point I'm making.

I get you it's just that we can't ignore this based on a mutual benefit or whatever the case may be. Hopefully these accusation will change the way the game is played from now on at least for the most part. No quid pro quo and no victims.

Originally posted by socool8520
I get you it's just that we can't ignore this based on a mutual benefit or whatever the case may be. Hopefully these accusation will change the way the game is played from now on at least for the most part. No quid pro quo and no victims. You see, I always worry about allegations which are historic. Sometimes they were swept under the carpet, sometimes the victim was scared, sometimes peoples memories are inaccurate and sometimes they never happened or are simply vindictive. Care and context should always be examined. I would hope that a damn good cross examination was carried out for any accuser, because the truth is the truth is the truth. Even if the accused was someone I find heinous like Donald Trump.

I agree. Never take the accusation at face value of course never assume they are lying either. I believe in the innocent until proven guilty system.

My point is, no one thinks that this type of stuff was going on, but now it is really out there in mass. my hope is that this changes the way we treat each other in Hollywood and in politics. These people believed they were untouchable given their position, but I hope this has at least scared future predators into acting appropriately.

Originally posted by socool8520
I agree. Never take the accusation at face value of course never assume they are lying either. I believe in the innocent until proven guilty system.

My point is, no one thinks that this type of stuff was going on, but now it is really out there in mass. my hope is that this changes the way we treat each other in Hollywood and in politics. These people believed they were untouchable given their position, but I hope this has at least scared future predators into acting appropriately. As DDM implied who is the Predator? The Guy who ****s the Starlet or the Starlet who uses the guy to get a 2 million pound film deal... I'd argue, no harm done, nothing to see here. It might not be politically correct but in some cases, it could be the case. Now, imagine 20 years later it gets out, said starlet is married her kids hear she ****ed her way to marrying Tom Cruise say... and what does she do? No, they abused me... Maybe?

Right, I get it. I also don't think that scenario is far fetched, however, that is exactly the type of behavior these accusation hopefully curtail. Say this scenario does come up, now the guy/gal may think twice about taking them up on their offer, and instead have them prosecuted for solicitation.

Originally posted by socool8520
Right, I get it. I also don't think that scenario is far fetched, however, that is exactly the type of behavior these accusation hopefully curtail. Say this scenario does come up, now the guy/gal may think twice about taking them up on their offer, and instead have them prosecuted for solicitation. Everyone is going to be thinking twice now, but many accused and accusing weren't then. Which is part of the point of the initial post. The water is very muddy when we look to the past as if the past is today.

And that was a bad situation, regardless of intent/mutual benefit. It was a culture like that which allowed the monsters to prey on people.

I agree that there should be sufficient evidence provided before any real judgement is delivered though. That's just a right of all people.

Originally posted by socool8520
Right, I get it. I also don't think that scenario is far fetched, however, that is exactly the type of behavior these accusation hopefully curtail. Say this scenario does come up, now the guy/gal may think twice about taking them up on their offer, and instead have them prosecuted for solicitation.

It's still their word against his, though.

Wanna be Weinstein's won't learn to stop. They'll simply try and rethink their predatory habits so they can beat it.

As long as someone is desperate for a contract, there's always going to a gatekeeper looking to game the system.

Originally posted by cdtm
It's still their word against his, though.

Wanna be Weinstein's won't learn to stop. They'll simply try and rethink their predatory habits so they can beat it.

As long as someone is desperate for a contract, there's always going to a gatekeeper looking to game the system.

I think it would be much easier to argue solicitation of you have your staff present with you and bring said individual up on solicitation charges immediately. Same with a sexual predator scenario. Have more than one person with you and immediately come forward with assault so evidence can be presented.

Originally posted by socool8520
And that was a bad situation, regardless of intent/mutual benefit. It was a culture like that which allowed the monsters to prey on people.

I agree that there should be sufficient evidence provided before any real judgement is delivered though. That's just a right of all people. People feed off each other it's the way of the world, I've actually seen a slave market in Niger and girls in bamboo cages in India. I'm with cdtm, people will always find ways to do bad things to other people. Nothing will change significantly, that doesn't mean things should be ignored though.

Of course it is, I've seen women forced to sell themselves in Thailand, but I wouldn't be apposed to a scandal that led the alleviation of either your or my examples though.

Anyway that we can erode some of this behavior is worth it imo. Well nearly anything.

Originally posted by socool8520
Of course it is, I've seen women forced to sell themselves in Thailand, but I wouldn't be apposed to a scandal that led the alleviation of either your or my examples though.

Anyway that we can erode some of this behavior is worth it imo. Well nearly anything.

In Thailand and the rest of South East Asia the women have a different outlook to western women on exploitation. A filipino nurse I know wants to marry me because I have money or at least compared to her I do, or perhaps they don't have a different outlook at all. We'd have to be able to read these starlets minds.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
In Thailand and the rest of South East Asia the women have a different outlook to western women on exploitation. A filipino nurse I know wants to marry me because I have money or at least compared to her I do, or perhaps they don't have a different outlook at all. We'd have to be able to read these starlets minds.

I had to watch a video showing that far too many of these women were coerced into this type of behavior for the good of their families.

That's where evidence comes into play and having multiple people in the room during casting, business related dinners, etc. One on one probably shouldn't occur if you want to stay out of these accusations or not become a victim.

Originally posted by socool8520
I had to watch a video showing that far too many of these women were coerced into this type of behavior for the good of their families.

That's where evidence comes into play and having multiple people in the room during casting, business related dinners, etc. One on one probably shouldn't occur if you want to stay out of these accusations or not become a victim. Oh, I don't doubt that either, I also don't doubt some make a choice.

It's not always cut and dried.

People have motives.

Yeah, that's where the 2nd part of the post comes into play. Help yourself, because odds are no one else is going to do it for you.

Originally posted by socool8520
Yeah, that's where the 2nd part of the post comes into play. Help yourself, because odds are no one else is going to do it for you.

Sadly, probably true.

But, people put a word in for people and they can also be accused.

1981 The Human League

You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar
When I met you
I picked you out, I shook you up
And turned you around
Turned you into someone new
Now five years later on you've got the world at your feet
Success has been so easy for you