Darth Vader vs Mace Windu (Canon)

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Rebel95
Interested to see what the current opinion on this is. Canon only-all out fight, who wins?

ziggtard
It's always gonna be Mace for me.

TheNuisanceBird
Depends who's writing.

godemperortrump
Mace is just a better duelist. He wins.

The Merchant
Mace.

relentless1
Vader is superior in the Force and good enough at duelling to hold his own with Mace

godemperortrump
Originally posted by relentless1
good enough at duelling to hold his own with Mace
no

redpill
vaapad carries the day

godemperortrump
Mace doesn't win 'cuz Vaapad.'

He wins because he's comparatively powerful and a significantly better duelist.

Vader killing fodder Jedi, and sometimes struggling to do even that, doesn't impress me.

Rebel95
Originally posted by godemperortrump
significantly better duelist.
How is he a significantly better duelist?

carthage
Vader

Kurk
Originally posted by carthage
Vader Vader struggles against fodder jedi. I don't see anything going for him.

Rebel95
What fodder Jedi has he struggled against?

FreshestSlice
Vader. Mace is sub-Anakin.

McP
^
Vader is as well

Kurk
Originally posted by Rebel95
What fodder Jedi has he struggled against? Look at the comics.

Rebel95
Originally posted by Kurk
Look at the comics.
Ughhhh I don't have them and I'm to lazy to look it up laughing out loud

FreshestSlice
The comic takes place right after RotS, which is quite possibly the dumbest argument against Vader there is.

Rebel95
thumb up

carthage
Vader kills a guy who stomps Maul in seconds

And was stated as being more powerful than Maul/Dooku. He's also so far above Mace in the force it's not even a comparison. He can gesture and shred Windu

JKBart
Mace

Kurk
Originally posted by carthage
Vader kills a guy who stomps Maul in seconds

And was stated as being more powerful than Maul/Dooku. He's also so far above Mace in the force it's not even a comparison. He can gesture and shred Windu Where is it explicitly stated that Vader is more powerful than Dooku/Maul in canon?

Again, what suggests that Vader "can gesture and shred Windu" in canon?

Rebel95

Kurk

JKBart
If you exclude Legends and go only by Canon, the setting is quite weird. Rebels, for instance, goes great lengths to demonstrate Vader as superior to Anakin incarnation, or at least, it doesn't seem like Vader is diminished noticeably from allmighty RotS Anakin. That would make it plausible to place Vader above Windu.

But then again, if you exclude Legends, much of the material used to argue that Anakin > Mace goes away, and we are left with very solid material to pin Windu as the better of the two, simply because so many details are left out, especially about Windu vs. Sidious and Anakin vs. Dooku. That still allows to place Windu on top.

If we were to include Legends, though, Anakin > Mace (discounting Windu's state from Palpatine fight obviously) is solid as hell. But so is the fact that Vader, even by RotJ, is far from the unstoppable might of RotS Anakin, really far. Effectively Anakin > Mace > Vader.

DarthAnt66
Both Anakin and Mace are better than Vader in both Legends and Canon.

Issue with Vader in Canon is his relatively weak portrayal in the Vader comics.

JKBart
Yeah, as I said, in Legends it's no contest.

On the other hand, tho, if we take Canon only, I'm now starting to think of Lucas's blatant statements of Vader being Anakin's shadow and all, so yeah, you're right.

Zenwolf
You know I would ask why, but this isn't the thread for that.

Anyway, as for now I think Mace takes it.

godemperortrump
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Both Anakin and Mace are better than Vader in both Legends and Canon.

Issue with Vader in Canon is his relatively weak portrayal in the Vader comics.
Ant's on the ball

Rebel95
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Issue with Vader in Canon is his relatively weak portrayal in the Vader comics.
Don't the comics take place right after he gets the suit?

DarthAnt66
I was mainly referring to the 0 ABY ones with the cyborgs.

Also, I don't think Vader's suit handicap early on is that pronounced - or even existent - in Canon.

Darth Thor
Being a superior duelist will give Mace the win. But it will be a hard fight, no question.

TheIndyJedi
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Both Anakin and Mace are better than Vader in both Legends and Canon.

Issue with Vader in Canon is his relatively weak portrayal in the Vader comics.
Lords Of The Sith and Pablo's Hidalgo's comment about Vader in Rebels recon suggests Vader>Anakin

Darth Thor
^ If we take his comment completely literally.

Zentrex
Vader.

He's still not as powerful as Anakin, but defenitely much closer than he was in legends. And though we don't have much evidence for "Anakin is superior to Mace" in canon, the Revenge of the Sith film, Nic Gillard, and George Lucas all wanted that to be the case. And Anakin is defenitely superior to Dooku, who (I think) is still the greatest duelist of his era (barr Sidious).

Also, the only real feat showing how powerful Mace is in canon is his fight against Sidious, and even that might have been staged.

quanchi112
Windu wins.

Forschbewithu
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Both Anakin and Mace are better than Vader in both Legends and Canon.

Issue with Vader in Canon is his relatively weak portrayal in the Vader comics.

WEAK potrayal in the comics? Are we forgetting how he stopped the downward force of an atat from stepping on him? And how he was in the process of ripping it to shreds? How he picked up debree big enough to hurl at aircrafts to destroy them?

Are we forgetting his Vader Down feats where he took on an entire army of rebels by himself? Including a bunch of tanks? Who else in canon took on armies by themselves? I can think of Yoda in Cline Wars and Windu in the legends cartoon. There might be other legends examples I'm not thinking of. That's a pretty elite group.

We know in terms of power he no longer has his full potential, but he has grown more powerful since rots. Lots and rebels recon make that clear. However, in terms of lightsaber abilities it's a bit unclear. We know he's greater than Ben Kenobi, Ahsoka, and Maul, but they are all sub-Dooku in my opinion. As Anakin, he has greater feats than Vader by dominating Dooku, who is on par with Mace.

There is nothing in canon that would point to Vader's saber skills improving. However, there's nothing to indicate they have diminished either. We know from lots his suit does not inhibit him in any way. In fact, he made full modifications to his suit personally.

I would say Vader is more skilled with a blade and is more powerful than Mace with the force. However, styles make fights as they say. I can't see Vader ragdolling Mace with tk and although Vader is more skilled with a blade, he doesn't match up well with Mace's vapaad. Mace wins 6-7 out of 10.

DarthAnt66
sorry. i dont know a lot about star wars. i dont know why i thought that

Kurk
Ant is complete trash at this. Time to retire old man.

TheIndyJedi
Is Dooku on par with Mace in canon?

TheIndyJedi
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
sorry. i dont know a lot about star wars. i dont know why i thought that

It's fine bud.
We are all guilty of lowballing certain characters

relentless1
Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
Is Dooku on par with Mace in canon?

Doou as of TPM era was on par if not slightly better than Mace, as a Sith he grew more powerful but then so did Mace over the course of the Clone Wars so id say they are probably pretty even in a 1v1 fight at any time period

Rockydonovang
--

Forschbewithu
Originally posted by relentless1
Doou as of TPM era was on par if not slightly better than Mace, as a Sith he grew more powerful but then so did Mace over the course of the Clone Wars so id say they are probably pretty even in a 1v1 fight at any time period

There are plenty of legends material to support they're equal.. do we actually have new canon sources that support this?

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