Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/21/politics/harvard-affirmative-action-justice-department/index.html


It must be legit since it's on the main page of CNN.


Asian Americans claim they've been discriminated against. What do you think? Double-standards finally exposed?

The school is being subpoenaed to surrender relevant documents by Dec 1.

Well, I'd be pissed if I didn't get a spot just because of affirmative action. I'd also be pissed if I got a spot over someone who is better just because I'm Hispanic. I believe in being rewarded for your own merit and hard work, rather than because they had to fill a quota. That's just me though.

YAY

I hope affirmative action gets overturned as a whole since it's a racially discriminatory piece of shit practice.

Originally posted by socool8520
Well, I'd be pissed if I didn't get a spot just because of affirmative action. I'd also be pissed if I got a spot over someone who is better just because I'm Hispanic. I believe in being rewarded for your own merit and hard work, rather than because they had to fill a quota. That's just me though.

Interesting and fair perspective.

Originally posted by socool8520
Well, I'd be pissed if I didn't get a spot just because of affirmative action. I'd also be pissed if I got a spot over someone who is better just because I'm Hispanic. I believe in being rewarded for your own merit and hard work, rather than because they had to fill a quota. That's just me though.

I like to be fair as much as possible. There's obviously going to be some advantages/disadvantages depending on circumstances, but I believe the hard-work/best results should be rewarded always.

So are they just going to cross reference applications/test scores over who got accepted to figure this out?

Originally posted by socool8520
I like to be fair as much as possible. There's obviously going to be some advantages/disadvantages depending on circumstances, but I believe the hard-work/best results should be rewarded always.

Your personal ethics/ideologies are, at least, consistent across topics which makes it easier to discuss these things.

We need another thread on prisons in the US, I think. You'd have a much different perspective than me, for sure.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Your personal ethics/ideologies are, at least, consistent across topics which makes it easier to discuss these things.

We need another thread on prisons in the US, I think. You'd have a much different perspective than me, for sure.

Everyone is susceptible to hypocrisy but I try to be level across the board.

Prisons in the U.S.? That's a pretty vague subject. Are we talking about unpaid labor like Rocky brought up in another thread or racial bias?

If Asians feel they've been discriminated against in Harvard due to being Asian, they should just transfer to Berkeley University. It's a boon there.

^ I believe it's because they weren't minority enough for affirmative action to work in their favor since that's a thing now I guess. It's a legit complaint imo if their scores were better than the people admitted over them.

It's a legit complaint for anyone being discriminated against by these policies. It's disgusting.

^ Yeah, that's what I was saying

Fair enough, was just clarifying for all of the apologists for this type of racism.

I wonder what will happen in 50 years when whites are the minority...

Then you can have a NAAWP.

No we won't, there'll still be complaints about institutional racism and shit and expectations of people to apologize for their white guilt.

You'll have a 400 year waiting period I guess to make up for the invasion of the Native American lands to now.

Plus remember Hitler was also white. So there is a lot of healing for us to do.

Originally posted by socool8520
^ I believe it's because they weren't minority enough for affirmative action to work in their favor since that's a thing now I guess. It's a legit complaint imo if their scores were better than the people admitted over them.

Affirmative action is good in theory, but poor in practice. As we had more qualified people left on the curb and positions filled by the less qualified and when it comes to jobs like the Police, Fire, Medical Emergency etc., you want the most qualified, regardless of their skin color.

But is Asians were not "minority enough", meaning there was no clear discrimination against them in the amount of courses/classes, then what exactly is there to be upset over.

^ That they weren't accepted with higher scores is what I gathered from the article. More under privileged minorities got the nod instead

Originally posted by socool8520
^ That they weren't accepted with higher scores is what I gathered from the article. More under privileged minorities got the nod instead As it should be, good for Harvard. Equality doesn't mean equal treatment it means a levelled playing field and equalled opportunities. Even for poor people who had to work twice as hard to get any opportunity.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
As it should be, good for Harvard. Equality doesn't mean equal treatment it means a levelled playing field and equalled opportunities. Even for poor people who had to work twice as hard to get any opportunity.

I disagree. Equality definitely means equal treatment. Poverty doesn't keep you from becoming educated. Your devotion or lack thereof is what determines whether you will succeed academically or not. It's not like there aren't any people who came from poor families but still succeeded.

I definitely think access to education should be cheaper so more people can afford to go, but I am strongly against lowering the bar for some just because of race, sex, religion, etc.

Originally posted by Kurk
I wonder what will happen in 50 years when whites are the minority... You will be rounded up, and then...

Originally posted by socool8520
I disagree. Equality definitely means equal treatment. Poverty doesn't keep you from becoming educated. Your devotion or lack thereof is what determines whether you will succeed academically or not. Of course equality doesn't mean equal treatment. If you are physically handicapped you need to be pushed to your destination to be able to have a chance. If you are a person living in poverty, hardly able to get enough food with alcoholic parents and you almost get to Harvard, you should get the nod over someone who had a 200 million trust fund and barely got in. It's clear who the better and more talented individual is.

If any form of positive discrimination is to take place, it should be simply towards those from impoverished backgrounds, regardless of skin colour. This race thing is really just becoming a fetish to make people feel good about themselves and get PR by being "diverse".

But of course that will never happen, because what folks really don't like are poor people.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
If any form of positive discrimination is to take place, it should be simply towards those from impoverished backgrounds, regardless of skin colour. This race thing is really just becoming a fetish to make people feel good about themselves and get PR by being "diverse".

But of course that will never happen, because what folks really don't like are poor people. Exactly and my argument from the start. Equality for all.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Of course equality doesn't mean equal treatment. If you are physically handicapped you need to be pushed to your destination to be able to have a chance. If you are a person living in poverty, hardly able to get enough food with alcoholic parents and you almost get to Harvard, you should get the nod over someone who had a 200 million trust fund and barely got in. It's clear who the better and more talented individual is.

Wait, what? You need more than just money to go to Harvard. You need intelligence. So why would a poor person who almost gets in be the clear superior(talent wise) to a rich person barely getting in? What does that even mean? And where does being a better person come into play in all this?

Originally posted by Surtur
Wait, what? You need more than just money to go to Harvard. You need intelligence. So why would a poor person who almost gets in be the clear superior(talent wise) to a rich person barely getting in? What does that even mean? And where does being a better person come into play in all this? Sit and think about it, you'll work it out, but probably you won't. Silly Rabbit.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Of course equality doesn't mean equal treatment. If you are physically handicapped you need to be pushed to your destination to be able to have a chance.

If you are a person living in poverty, hardly able to get enough food with alcoholic parents and you almost get to Harvard, you should get the nod over someone who had a 200 million trust fund and barely got in. It's clear who the better and more talented individual is.

In this instance you are implying a handicap. Of course they are not equal at that point. Being poor is a disadvantage but it doesn't impede your ability to learn. Math is still math no matter what school you go to. Same with the other subjects. There are free tutoring programs and such for aiding poor children with learning.

You're pushing extremes to try to justify your point. Show me statistically where this is the case a significant amount of the time and I'll consider your point. Not to mention, if the kid barely got in, he can't afford to go there anyway. Now if you want to talk about the travesty that is the over priced cost of education, I'll be right there with you.

Originally posted by socool8520
Being poor is a disadvantage but it doesn't impede your ability to learn.

deficient school systems in impoverished areas have no impact on individual education? interesting hypothesis.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Sit and think about it, you'll work it out, but probably you won't. Silly Rabbit.

Well no because you didn't state that the poor kid spent more time studying, worked harder, etc. You just said they both barely got in. You can't project your bias against the rich onto others and expect them to get your point.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Sit and think about it, you'll work it out, but probably you won't. Silly Rabbit.

So you said something stupid and you're trying to pretend like it wasn't stupid and that you're just being misunderstood? Okay.

Originally posted by socool8520
In this instance you are implying a handicap. Of course they are not equal at that point. Being poor is a disadvantage but it doesn't impede your ability to learn. http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/may13/vol70/num08/How-Poverty-Affects-Classroom-Engagement.aspx

Do you know how many studies around the world make that the most ill-informed comment ever?

Seriously... Trumpers.

Don't get me start on restricted and elaborated code etc.

It's honestly incredible how thick you people are.

I guess so talking head on Youtube said Poverty doesn't affect Education.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
deficient school systems in impoverished areas have no impact on individual education? interesting hypothesis.

I made high marks in poor school districts as did many other children I went to school with. Did they teach a different kind of math at the school you went to? Did they teach it at all? If they didn't, then I can see your point. I also pointed out programs that are available for poor families if there are textbook shortages and such. Hell, we had to double up at a couple of the schools I attended as a child. If you are focused on education, you can succeed. My parents, luckily, were advocates for education.

Here's one:

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/07/20/americans-making-under-30-000-can-already-send-their-children-to-college-for-free

Originally posted by socool8520
In this instance you are implying a handicap. Of course they are not equal at that point. Being poor is a disadvantage but it doesn't impede your ability to learn. Math is still math no matter what school you go to. Same with the other subjects. There are free tutoring programs and such for aiding poor children with learning. Poverty doesn't effect the quality of a person's education... wat?

Originally posted by socool8520
I made high marks in poor school districts

define "poor". you're from an impoverished ghetto, or do you consider working class neighborhoods "poor" to suit your anecdotal evidence?

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
deficient school systems in impoverished areas have no impact on individual education? interesting hypothesis.

It's so retarded and flies in the face of every Educational statistic on the effects of Poverty on Education ever. I realised again who the hell I am trying to talk to.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Poverty doesn't effect the quality of a person's education... wat? Not in Socool and Surtur's Alt-Right wonderland. To the gas chambers with the poor!

One of a million studies that says otherwise.

https://lsuonline.lsu.edu/articles/education/how-does-poverty-affect-education.aspx


And almost every Educational study anywhere in the World says the same.
Which is why equality does not mean treating everyone the same.

Originally posted by socool8520
I made high marks in poor school districts as did many other children I went to school with.You're andecdotal evidence is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

State schools compared to privately funded schools may well teach the same syllabus, but the private school will absolutely teach it better, that's why people pay.

Almost certainly yes, and there are many examples of this, but a person from a poorer background will absolutely have a harder time of it, plenty of research has been done on this.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Not in Socool and Surtur's Alt-Right wonderland. To the gas chambers with the poor!

^^Dripping with autism.

Originally posted by Beniboybling


Almost certainly yes, and there are many examples of this, but a person from a poorer background will absolutely have a harder time of it, plenty of research has been done on this. Beni mate, take the red pill and realise who the **** you are arguing with... It's ****ing scary mate.

Originally posted by Surtur
Wait, what? You need more than just money to go to Harvard. You need intelligence.

In the fall of 1973, Bush entered Harvard Business School. He graduated in 1975 with an MBA degree. -snip

/checkmate

Originally posted by Surtur
^^Dripping with autism. Irony.

Originally posted by Robtard
In the fall of 1973, Bush entered Harvard Business School. He graduated in 1975 with an MBA degree. -snip

/checkmate Did laugh!

Originally posted by quanchi112
Irony.

Bingo! The Quan nails it!

Yikes, Steve says some dumb shit and suddenly everyone has to come high five each other lol. Okay. That is some nice E-loyalty.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/may13/vol70/num08/How-Poverty-Affects-Classroom-Engagement.aspx

Do you know how many studies around the world make that the most ill-informed comment ever?

Seriously... Trumpers.

Don't get me start on restricted and elaborated code etc.

It's honestly incredible how thick you people are.

Nutrition:

There's free lunch programs and food stamps/WIC programs.

Vocabulary:

Books....read them. I recommend a dictionary if you want to broaden your vocabulary. I know every school I went to had them. I had to copy from one several times.

Effort:

That was just a weak underlying cause.

Hope and growth:

Instill the value of education in your children and hope and growth should rise. Even in poor families.

Cognition:

Kids shut down more if they are poor I guess? Take advantage of tutoring programs and mentor your children.

Relationships:

Don't really know what to say about that. Some things you will have to overcome like being from a single parent home.

Stress:

This could help and could be found with very little research.

http://kidshealth.org/en/teens/mhealth-care.html

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Beni mate, take the red pill and realise who the **** you are arguing with... It's ****ing scary mate. The poor are just lazy, that's why they underachieve.

Originally posted by socool8520
Nutrition:

There's free lunch programs and food stamps/WIC programs.

Vocabulary:

Books....read them. I recommend a dictionary if you want to broaden your vocabulary. I know every school I went to had them. I had to copy from one several times.

Effort:

That was just a weak underlying cause.

Hope and growth:

Instill the value of education in your children and hope and growth should rise. Even in poor families.

Cognition:

Kids shut down more if they are poor I guess? Take advantage of tutoring programs and mentor your children.

Relationships:

Don't really know what to say about that. Some things you will have to overcome like being from a single parent home.

Stress:

This could help and could be found with very little research.

http://kidshealth.org/en/teens/mhealth-care.html The fact that there exist solutions does not mean there isn't a problem, my bro.

Originally posted by socool8520
Nutrition:

There's free lunch programs and food stamps/WIC programs.

Vocabulary:

Books....read them. I recommend a dictionary if you want to broaden your vocabulary. I know every school I went to had them. I had to copy from one several times.

Effort:

That was just a weak underlying cause.

Hope and growth:

Instill the value of education in your children and hope and growth should rise. Even in poor families.

Cognition:

Kids shut down more if they are poor I guess? Take advantage of tutoring programs and mentor your children.

Relationships:

Don't really know what to say about that. Some things you will have to overcome like being from a single parent home.

Stress:

This could help and could be found with very little research.

http://kidshealth.org/en/teens/mhealth-care.html

In the UK we had a character called Tory Boy who would say shit like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oQ_tbf6j2A

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The poor are just lazy, that's why they underachieve. Not lost on you then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oQ_tbf6j2A

Originally posted by Robtard
Affirmative action is good in theory, but poor in practice. As we had more qualified people left on the curb and positions filled by the less qualified and when it comes to jobs like the Police, Fire, Medical Emergency etc., you want the most qualified, regardless of their skin color.

But is Asians were not "minority enough", meaning there was no clear discrimination against them in the amount of courses/classes, then what exactly is there to be upset over. None of the jobs you just listed require any sort of skill or achievement to where affirmative action is needed to get in lol.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You will be rounded up, and then...

I'm actually not anglo-saxon. Nice confirmation bias, though. I put down white on forms, but am in a group of people who are discriminated against. Can you guess?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You're andecdotal evidence is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

State schools compared to privately funded schools may well teach the same syllabus, but the private school will absolutely teach it better, that's why people pay.

Almost certainly yes, and there are many examples of this, but a person from a poorer background will absolutely have a harder time of it, plenty of research has been done on this.

I guess if I read how I have no chance like you guys assume poor people don't then I probably wouldn't have amounted to anything. lol

You can still learn it though. It's not like they are holding secrets to education from you.

Yes, I have stated they'll have a harder time, but they still have the same capability for learning. At some point you just have to put in the work and stop crying about how much easier someone else has it. If you want a good education, work hard for it.

I don't think this is fair but University's do need some wiggle room on who to chose. Affirmative action does good and bad but if it wasn't present, it'd be full of legacies and deep pockets, the institution itself would suffer. Imo, a person with a 3.5 GPA coming from poverty is a far more qualified candidate than someone with a 3.9 GPA coming from wealth.

Coming from low income areas, with poor education, lack of resources, pressure from society AND family (Often) to not pursue higher education, the drive and determination needed to even qualify for Harvard? Shits tough. Low income areas are riddled with drugs, underfunding, lack of support.

Socoll what background are you from in terms of socio-economic? You should visit some of the high schools in the poor areas around you. Get an idea of the "resources" available.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The fact that there exist solutions does not mean there isn't a problem, my bro.

Okay, but instead of using it as an excuse, take an advantage of the solutions. Someone will always have more than you or an advantage of some kind. Use what you got to succeed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The poor are just lazy, that's why they underachieve.

Nobody said that at all. Way to troll guys.

And lol of course the type of school you go to matters. I went to a private school and guarantee I would be 10x the dumbass I am had I stayed in public schools.

Of course there are people like Ben Carson who climbed out of poverty and crime and go on to do amazing things, but even he relied on some level of affirmative action to get into Yale.

And no you cannot buy your way into Harvard unless you're Bill Gate's or Bush's kid. My counselor said that unless you're rich enough to buy the school a new building, having money will not help.

Forgot formatting is fked up

https://youtu.be/iwMzZtU5H7I

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't think this is fair but University's do need some wiggle room on who to chose. Affirmative action does good and bad but if it wasn't present, it'd be full of legacies and deep pockets, the institution itself would suffer. Imo, a person with a 3.5 GPA coming from poverty is a far more qualified candidate than someone with a 3.9 GPA coming from wealth.

Coming from low income areas, with poor education, lack of resources, pressure from society AND family (Often) to not pursue higher education, the drive and determination needed to even qualify for Harvard? Shits tough. Low income areas are riddled with drugs, underfunding, lack of support.

Socoll what background are you from in terms of socio-economic? You should visit some of the high schools in the poor areas around you. Get an idea of the "resources" available. Bingo! Rage nails it too!

Somebody should have told these guys they were too poor and needed to wait for help before they could become successful.

http://www.businessinsider.com/billionaires-who-came-from-nothing-2013-12?IR=T

Originally posted by socool8520
Somebody should have told these guys they were too poor and needed to wait for help before they could become successful.

http://www.businessinsider.com/billionaires-who-came-from-nothing-2013-12?IR=T Haha, compare that to the billionaires who came from something. Silly Rabbit!

These people as well.

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/5-influential-people-who-faced-adversity-growing-u/

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Haha, compare that to the billionaires who came from something. Silly Rabbit!

It doesn't refute that you can succeed even in poverty. Whether it's harder or not doesn't matter if you are willing to put in the work.

Originally posted by Kurk
None of the jobs you just listed require any sort of skill or achievement to where affirmative action is needed to get in lol.


You think anyone/everyone is qualified to be a Police Officer, Fire Fighter or Medical Emergency person? Serious?

But there were cases where departments hired due to skin color/race first and foremost over testing and skill level, to meet the quotes set my AA.

Originally posted by Robtard
You think anyone/everyone is qualified to be a Police Officer, Fire Fighter or Medical Emergency person? Serious?

But there were cases where departments hired due to skin color/race first and foremost over testing and skill level, to meet the quotes set my AA.

Well there are entrance requirements for those jobs so if there's an issue, it's with the requirements.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
If any form of positive discrimination is to take place, it should be simply towards those from impoverished backgrounds, regardless of skin colour. This race thing is really just becoming a fetish to make people feel good about themselves and get PR by being "diverse".

But of course that will never happen, because what folks really don't like are poor people.


Hmmm...not sure how I feel about thoroughly agreeing with a point you've made. hmm

Originally posted by dadudemon
Hmmm...not sure how I feel about thoroughly agreeing with a point you've made. hmm Warm and fuzzy DDM? I just did when I agreed with this post of yours!

Like I said, I'm for lowering tuition rates so that it is affordable for low income families, but I am not for lowering the standard.

Originally posted by socool8520
Like I said, I'm for lowering tuition rates so that it is affordable for low income families, but I am not for lowering the standard. yappy dog is yappy!

Originally posted by socool8520
Well there are entrance requirements for those jobs so if there's an issue, it's with the requirements.

Yes, and to my first post, people with higher test scores (mental/physical) were left at the curb over people who meet the requirements of the job, but still had lower test scores. IMO, you want the best people for those types of jobs.

Edit: Look at this way: Let's say a "70" is required to be a Police Officer in testing. Dan scored a 94 and Bill scored a 77. Yet Bill was hired over Dan to meet an AF quoted.

I think what a lot of you are directly or indirectly talking about is Socioeconomic Mobility.

There are several factors in SeM and I think the Brookings Institution has done a great job compiling this list of 13 "Economic Facts about Social Mobility and the Role of Education":

https://www.brookings.edu/research/thirteen-economic-facts-about-social-mobility-and-the-role-of-education/

This is a nicely formatted website with collapsable sections...which I liked. Sorry, easily impressed by silly website features.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
yappy dog is yappy!

I wonder how you haven't been banned again. lol

Originally posted by socool8520
I wonder how you haven't been banned again. lol

He's a super reasonable sock, that's why.

Originally posted by Kurk
And lol of course the type of school you go to matters. I went to a private school and guarantee I would be 10x the dumbass I am had I stayed in public schools.

Of course there are people like Ben Carson who climbed out of poverty and crime and go on to do amazing things, but even he relied on some level of affirmative action to get into Yale.

And no you cannot buy your way into Harvard unless you're Bill Gate's or Bush's kid. My counselor said that unless you're rich enough to buy the school a new building, having money will not help.

It's about location too. I went to private schools, but they were super shitty. They essentially just added religion to the mix. I know some free public schools that were superior to the schools I went to that charged tuition.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think what a lot of you are directly or indirectly talking about is Socioeconomic Mobility.

There are several factors in SeM and I think the Brookings Institution has done a great job compiling this list of 13 "Economic Facts about Social Mobility and the Role of Education":

https://www.brookings.edu/research/thirteen-economic-facts-about-social-mobility-and-the-role-of-education/

This is a nicely formatted website with collapsable sections...which I liked. Sorry, easily impressed by silly website features.

So rich people have an advantage, but poor people are getting programs to help. Pretty much what I was saying. I liked the article by the way. Although the drop down menus kept throwing the text above the screen so I had to scroll up to read each point.

Originally posted by Robtard
Affirmative action is good in theory, but poor in practice. As we had more qualified people left on the curb and positions filled by the less qualified and when it comes to jobs like the Police, Fire, Medical Emergency etc., you want the most qualified, regardless of their skin color.

But is Asians were not "minority enough", meaning there was no clear discrimination against them in the amount of courses/classes, then what exactly is there to be upset over. There's the idea/suspicion that these universities are using a sort of "quota" system for racial groups since their racial ratios seem to remain largely constant while certain groups tend to score higher on average on the SATs etc. So Asians, being both statistically more likely to have a high IQ along with having a severe worth ethic in their culture tend to do very well in terms of academic institutions. So compared to the racial ratios of the general population, Asians are actually "overrepresented" in these institutions. But if it were a strict meritocracy, then their representation would be presumably even higher than it is. Meaning some highly qualified Asians (in some cases more qualified than some of their non-Asian peers who were accepted) are not let in because the ratio of Asians is considered to already be "high enough."

Originally posted by socool8520
So rich people have an advantage, but poor people are getting programs to help. Pretty much what I was saying. I liked the article by the way. Although the drop down menus kept throwing the text above the screen so I had to scroll up to read each point.

No one has responded to you, disagreeing with you, and I prefer to not summarize like you have (I prefer not to summarize and to actually directly use the 13 points). But if no one disagrees with you...

I can see it's time to break this out again for the clinically slow:

https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/ajAerM1_700b_v2.jpg

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I can see it's time to break this out again for the clinically slow:

https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/ajAerM1_700b_v2.jpg

Perfect, I have saved that Adam.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No one has responded to you, disagreeing with you, and I prefer to not summarize like you have (I prefer not to summarize and to actually directly use the 13 points). But if no one disagrees with you...

It's clear that people disagree with me. lol. The previous page or so would support that.

I summarized because I had already stated that being well off has its advantages, so there was really no point to push it again. It also stated that there were programs in place to help poorer families which I also stated, so I didn't want to push it again. Is there a specific point you found that you wanted to talk about?

My point has been that the best should get the nod regardless of status. I don't think it's right to give people a spot just because they are a minority, poor, or both.

I would strongly prefer America invest in fixing it's education system so that all people get better access to education rather than penalizing just for the sake of diversity.

Originally posted by socool8520
It's clear that people disagree with me. lol. The previous page or so would support that.

I summarized because I had already stated that being well off has its advantages, so there was really no point to push it again. It also stated that there were programs in place to help poorer families which I also stated, so I didn't want to push it again. Is there a specific point you found that you wanted to talk about?

My point has been that the best should get the nod regardless of status. I don't think it's right to give people a spot just because they are a minority, poor, or both.

I would strongly prefer America invest in fixing it's education system so that all people get better access to education rather than penalizing just for the sake of diversity. Silly Rabbit.

ok

Anyways, in other news: affirmative action needs to go, immediately.

Originally posted by Surtur
Anyways, in other news: affirmative action needs to go, immediately. Why are you worried Surt, you're never going to have to compete with anyone for a job.

Originally posted by Surtur
Anyways, in other news: affirmative action needs to go, immediately.

Make education more affordable, and you may not need affirmative action. Roll like Germany and allocate our tax money into education so that tuition is extremely low, or free.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Why are you worried Surt, you're never going to have to compete with anyone for a job. most things that make him chronically angry have zero impact on his life. hollywood, religions, job market, income tax, women, etc.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
most things that make him chronically angry have zero impact on his life. hollywood, religions, job market, income tax, women, etc. Yeah, I agree with you Bash, so MANY things a normal person takes for granted, good and ill, are and will always be absent from his barren, lonely existence. Poor-poor Surt. bawling Oh, I just remembered I'm talking about Surtur My bad

Originally posted by socool8520
Make education more affordable, and you may not need affirmative action.

Doesn't the military give options for paying college tuitions in the USA?

Originally posted by socool8520
Make education more affordable, and you may not need affirmative action. Roll like Germany and allocate our tax money into education so that tuition is extremely low, or free.

Agreed.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Doesn't the military give options for paying college tuitions in the USA?

Yeah.

Originally posted by snowdragon
Doesn't the military give options for paying college tuitions in the USA?

Yeah, I tried to explain that there are options available, but people thought I was just downing on poor people like I was never poor myself or anything. lol

#SurvivalBias

that system has worked so well, why change it? poor people don't deserve any other avenue to success besides military service. don't like it? sorry kid. momma shoulda planned ahead!

Oh Bash, you're too funny.

What is wrong with military service?

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
#SurvivalBias

that system has worked so well, why change it? poor people don't deserve any other avenue to success besides military service. don't like it? sorry kid. momma shoulda planned ahead!

Yeah it works for middle class folks too!

If your parents don't help plan for college then yeah, it is shame on the parents. Unless of course you believe those parents are just to simple to understand planning for the future.

It's not the solution but it is a viable solution and joining the military doesn't mean you tote a gun and fight in the trnches.

there's something wrong when it's the only viable option for people from impoverished communities with failing school systems. actual ghettoes, mind you, not the working class communities that some people like to try to pass off as their "poor" upbringing, in order to score internet points.

Nothing. I'm in the military. Bash is just being Bash. Don't mind him. A few more sarcastic comments/insults, and some memes before he tires himself out.

Originally posted by socool8520
Nothing. I'm in the military. Bash is just being Bash. Don't mind him. A few more sarcastic comments/insults, and some memes before he tires himself out.

Bingo.

And there's nothing wrong with pouring taxpayer money into colleges and raising the cost of other people's college for the non college educated working class? Seems kinda sketch.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
there's something wrong when it's the only viable option for people from impoverished communities with failing school systems. actual ghettoes, mind you, not the working class communities that some people like to try to pass off as their "poor" upbringing, in order to score internet points. Remember Service means guaranteed citizenship! -Starship Troopers- film about a dystopian fascist state.

Now I'm just thinking about Jake Busey eye f*cking the shit out of everybody.

Originally posted by Surtur
Now I'm just thinking about Jake Busey eye f*cking the shit out of everybody. He was perfect in that film but then the whole cast were.

Originally posted by Surtur
Now I'm just thinking about Jake Busey eye f*cking the shit out of everybody.

https://i.imgur.com/GFaaNQ4.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/Rt67RJq.gif

Originally posted by socool8520
Nothing. I'm in the military. Bash is just being Bash. Don't mind him. A few more sarcastic comments/insults, and some memes before he tires himself out.

Same here, I was in the Navy.

Even if military service was the only solution(it's not) I don't see how there is anything wrong with service.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Same here, I was in the Navy.

Even if military service was the only solution(it's not) I don't see how there is anything wrong with service. That's because you are not a pacifist.

There are plenty of jobs in the military that don't require you to fight.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Remember Service means guaranteed citizenship! -Starship Troopers- film about a dystopian fascist state.

yyyyup. but i guess we can't discuss this because that means we're putting down the armed forces and dishonoring them or something.

Originally posted by Silent Master
There are plenty of jobs in the military that don't require you to fight.

My godbrother wanted to be a cook in the Marines. He was a cook. In Iraq. In a combat zone. During the near daily dying on both sides.


"I'd like the daily slop...but please hold off and the explody Allahu Akbar, today."

Originally posted by Silent Master
There are plenty of jobs in the military that don't require you to fight. But they all support a military which by natures purpose is to go to war and kill. I can think of few wars since world war 2 that have been about protecting our nations and I say our nations because usually with a few exceptions when you go to war we go to war and vice versa.

So?

Originally posted by dadudemon
My godbrother wanted to be a cook in the Marines. He was a cook. In Iraq. In a combat zone. During the near daily dying on both sides.


"I'd like the daily slop...but please hold off and the explody Allahu Akbar, today." Did Siegal play him in a film?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So? So... someone who finds killing abhorrent especially for oil and land might not want to support a war machine which is killing for oil and land in any capacity. Just an idea.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
So... someone who finds killing abhorrent especially for oil and land might not want to support a war machine which is killing for oil and land in any capacity. Just an idea.

i'm sorry, but they should have thought of all that before being born poor.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
yyyyup. but i guess we can't discuss this because that means we're putting down the armed forces and dishonoring them or something. I'm pretty sure it's why Trump upped military spending. Anyway night mate.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Did Siegal play him in a film?

Did Siegal play a quiet talking badass marine cook in a movie? If so, that sounds disgustingly terribly entertaining movie.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
i'm sorry, but they should have thought of all that before being born poor. Damn, now you mention it that was inconsiderate of them to be poor and not want to kill people or be involved in killing people.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
So... someone who finds killing abhorrent especially for oil and land might not want to support a war machine which is killing for oil and land in any capacity. Just an idea.

That is a weak excuse as they are already supporting the military via taxes.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Did Siegal play a quiet talking badass marine cook in a movie? If so, that sounds disgustingly terribly entertaining movie.

Navy seal. Other than that, yeah pretty much dead on.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Remember Service means guaranteed citizenship! -Starship Troopers- film about a dystopian fascist state.

IIRC, Military service was the only way to become a citizen. Now apply that rule here and we'll see just how many of these 'let the poor go on and fight!' Chairborne Rangers agree.

Originally posted by Silent Master
That is a weak excuse as they are already supporting the military via taxes.

Well...there are a couple of options.


1. Be a citizen and protest immoral wars (many did and still do that) while also strongly lobbying/petitioning their representatives to end these immoral wars.

2. Being an active participant in an immoral war.



Some who were young and naive did #2 and realized it was terrible and came back and do #1. Some who despised #2 have always stuck to their convictions and done #2 to try and make a change.

I don't think it is a weak excuse. Unless they are hypocrites who are only keyboard warriors that whine about US Military actions but do absolutely nothing from #1.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well...there are a couple of options.


1. Be a citizen and protest immoral wars (many did and still do that) while also strongly lobbying/petitioning their representatives to end these immoral wars.

2. Being an active participant in an immoral war.



Some who were young and naive did #2 and realized it was terrible and came back and do #1. Some who despised #2 have always stuck to their convictions and done #2 to try and make a change.

I don't think it is a weak excuse. Unless they are hypocrites who are only keyboard warriors that whine about US Military actions but do absolutely nothing from #1.

I'm about 90% positive that almost all of those giving that excuse fall under the "Keyboard warrior" label.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Did Siegal play a quiet talking badass marine cook in a movie? If so, that sounds disgustingly terribly entertaining movie.

He was, it was called "Live Free or Fry Hard".

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm about 90% positive that almost all of those giving that excuse fall under the "Keyboard warrior" label. Come visit me in Riyadh, we'll pop to Sudan no weapons and I'll leave you for a day with a phone so you can ring me and I'll come and talk in Arabic to save your silly ass.

I've been to Saudi Arabia before and I didn't have any weapons.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I've been to Saudi Arabia before and I didn't have any weapons. Reading comprehension isn't your strong point is it. Most of Saudi is safe as houses most of the time, Sudan isn't. As I say we'll visit Sudan.

Send me the money and I'll be happy to stop by, could use a vacation.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm about 90% positive that almost all of those giving that excuse fall under the "Keyboard warrior" label.

I tend to agree.

colleges are adult day-care centers. I really want to drop out as I have no aspirations other than to become a dentist.

They are NOT adult daycare centers!!

Btw, if you spot a banana peel hanging in a tree feeling free to take the next week off to emotionally recover.

Originally posted by socool8520
^ I believe it's because they weren't minority enough for affirmative action to work in their favor since that's a thing now I guess. It's a legit complaint imo if their scores were better than the people admitted over them.

Aren't women and jewish also overrepresented?

Can you imagine the uproar trying to limit either group?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
YAY

I hope affirmative action gets overturned as a whole since it's a racially discriminatory piece of shit practice.
I also hope after they overturn it the government doesn't act like everything's done and they actually bother to address the fundamental issues which affirmative action was a symptom off.

Originally posted by socool8520
You'll have a 400 year waiting period I guess to make up for the invasion of the Native American lands to now.
Well you know, you have to actually make up for it first.

Simply not discriminating doesn't count as making up for the effects of discrimination.

If I put you in a hole, simply not digging the hole further isn't the same as taking you out of the hole.

Originally posted by socool8520
I disagree. Equality definitely means equal treatment. Poverty doesn't keep you from becoming educated. Your devotion or lack thereof is what determines whether you will succeed academically or not. .
That's utter bullsh!t. Poverty does keep you from getting educated, that's why poor people are generally much worse off than those born in rich backgrounds.

If poverty didn't impede your ability to learn, then there wouldn't be a difference between the educational success of the poor and the rich.

As Zodiac:
http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/may13/vol70/num08/How-Poverty-Affects-Classroom-Engagement.aspx

If poverty is negatively affecting student's ability to learn, that is, by definition, impeding them.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
No we won't, there'll still be complaints about institutional racism and shit and expectations of people to apologize for their white guilt.
No, it's not white guilt, it's government guilt. The government's decades of discrimination have left minorities disproportionally affected by the government's negligence and indirectly discriminant policies against the poor.

This has nothing to do with white people, this has to do with America fixing the mess it made.

And no, simply stopping the mess from being made bigger(though it has been made bigger by certain indirectly discriminant polices), is not the same as fixing the mess you made.

"White Guilt" is just a lazy deflection from the actual issues in our society.

Anyway Adam POE put this best:
Originally posted by Emperordmb
No we won't, there'll still be complaints about institutional racism and shit and expectations of people to apologize for their white guilt.
No, it's not white guilt, it's government guilt. The government's decades of discrimination have left minorities disproportionally affected by the government's negligence and indirectly discriminant policies against the poor.

This has nothing to do with white people, this has to do with America fixing the mess it made.

And no, simply stopping the mess from being made bigger(though it has been made bigger by certain indirectly discriminant polices), is not the same as fixing the mess you made.

"White guilt" is just a lazy deflection from actual systematic issues.

Anyway, Adam put it best:
Originally posted by Adam_PoE


https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/ajAerM1_700b_v2.jpg

^^Dude is fulla white guilt. Chump.

Originally posted by Surtur
^^Dude is fulla white guilt. Chump.
^^^ I never said anything about being white making you guilty. Illiterate

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I can see it's time to break this out again for the clinically slow:

https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/ajAerM1_700b_v2.jpg Affirmative action seems like the second pane to me. Except we're talking about careers and not watching a baseball game, and the short person might actually end up being not as good at their job as the tall person.

The main problem with striving for equality of outcome as opposed to equality of opportunity is that it basically requires different treatment of different groups, because the underlying assumption that all groups are the same and when given an equal playing field will excel in the same exact areas and to the same exact degree is essentially baseless and contrary to any existing evidence or data.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Well you know, you have to actually make up for it first.

Simply not discriminating doesn't count as making up for the effects of discrimination.

If I put you in a hole, simply not digging the hole further isn't the same as taking you out of the hole.


That's utter bullsh!t. Poverty does keep you from getting educated, that's why poor people are generally much worse off than those born in rich backgrounds.

If poverty didn't impede your ability to learn, then there wouldn't be a difference between the educational success of the poor and the rich.

As Zodiac:
http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/may13/vol70/num08/How-Poverty-Affects-Classroom-Engagement.aspx

If poverty is negatively affecting student's ability to learn, that is, by definition, impeding them.


No, it's not white guilt, it's government guilt. The government's decades of discrimination have left minorities disproportionally affected by the government's negligence and indirectly discriminant policies against the poor.

This has nothing to do with white people, this has to do with America fixing the mess it made.

And no, simply stopping the mess from being made bigger(though it has been made bigger by certain indirectly discriminant polices), is not the same as fixing the mess you made.

"White Guilt" is just a lazy deflection from the actual issues in our society.

Anyway Adam POE put this best:

No, it's not white guilt, it's government guilt. The government's decades of discrimination have left minorities disproportionally affected by the government's negligence and indirectly discriminant policies against the poor.

This has nothing to do with white people, this has to do with America fixing the mess it made.

And no, simply stopping the mess from being made bigger(though it has been made bigger by certain indirectly discriminant polices), is not the same as fixing the mess you made.

"White guilt" is just a lazy deflection from actual systematic issues.

Anyway, Adam put it best:

The problem with large scale fixes like the one's you're implying, is it results in small scale wrongs to individuals.

You can't, for example, have a quota on women, without denying that same spot to someone else (A man, in this case.)

Or to go with the box analogy, someone just might end up behind a kid standing up on a chair as he's trying to watch a wrestling show, with his goddamned mom standing right next to him, the *****.

Not a good evening.

But yeah, point is people aren't just groups, and imo it's not right to wrong someone to fix group wrongs. Even if it only affects a single person from being shut out..

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Come visit me in Riyadh, we'll pop to Sudan no weapons and I'll leave you for a day with a phone so you can ring me and I'll come and talk in Arabic to save your silly ass.

I could do the same at 8th and I in washington dc.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I can see it's time to break this out again for the clinically slow:

https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/ajAerM1_700b_v2.jpg

This is as much a fail as making it seem capitlaist succed on thier on own.

Originally posted by snowdragon
I could do the same at 8th and I in washington dc. Trust me, Sudan is a different level of danger for a white man, which I am and I lived and grew up in South London, where you are at least as likely to be knifed or beaten up as anywhere in the US and we have quite a high gun crime rates and very high acid attack rates. Tbh, so of the places in Africa I visit without weapons usually like Niger would make your average gangbanger shit himself and your average military boy without his squad and weapons. Suck it up.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Well you know, you have to actually make up for it first.

Simply not discriminating doesn't count as making up for the effects of discrimination.

If I put you in a hole, simply not digging the hole further isn't the same as taking you out of the hole.


That's utter bullsh!t. Poverty does keep you from getting educated, that's why poor people are generally much worse off than those born in rich backgrounds.

If poverty didn't impede your ability to learn, then there wouldn't be a difference between the educational success of the poor and the rich.

As Zodiac:
http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/may13/vol70/num08/How-Poverty-Affects-Classroom-Engagement.aspx

If poverty is negatively affecting student's ability to learn, that is, by definition, impeding them.


No, it's not white guilt, it's government guilt. The government's decades of discrimination have left minorities disproportionally affected by the government's negligence and indirectly discriminant policies against the poor.

This has nothing to do with white people, this has to do with America fixing the mess it made.

And no, simply stopping the mess from being made bigger(though it has been made bigger by certain indirectly discriminant polices), is not the same as fixing the mess you made.

"White Guilt" is just a lazy deflection from the actual issues in our society.

Anyway Adam POE put this best:

No, it's not white guilt, it's government guilt. The government's decades of discrimination have left minorities disproportionally affected by the government's negligence and indirectly discriminant policies against the poor.

This has nothing to do with white people, this has to do with America fixing the mess it made.

And no, simply stopping the mess from being made bigger(though it has been made bigger by certain indirectly discriminant polices), is not the same as fixing the mess you made.

"White guilt" is just a lazy deflection from actual systematic issues.

Anyway, Adam put it best: Good Post

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Trust me, Sudan is a different level of danger for a white man, which I am and I lived and grew up in South London, where you are at least as likely to be knifed or beaten up as anywhere in the US and we have quite a high gun crime rates and very high acid attack rates. Tbh, so of the places in Africa I visit without weapons usually like Niger would make your average gangbanger shit himself and your average military boy without his squad and weapons. Suck it up.
But are you enough of a badass to go to North Korea and steal a propaganda poster?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
But are you enough of a badass to go to North Korea and steal a propaganda poster? I don't talk Korean or have any interest or empathy with the North Korean culture. I have been to South Korea and the women are gorgeous, I would be out of my depth, with Africans and Arabs it's different, I can predict them a little, understand some of there culture and respect it and am able to converse with them. So the answer would be no, as, North Korea just seems a bloody odd place in its strange brainwashed austerity. The actual fear of being shot or blown up isn't an issue if that happens it happens, the worry in North Korea would be you are taken and unable to explain and/or talk your way out.