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In a new and official interview with Akira Toriyama, he reveals the name of the first being who became Super Saiyan(and Super Saiyan God) before Goku... And his name was "Yamoshi":

http://i.imgur.com/IBwr5P5l.jpg


Translation:
http://i.imgur.com/ijAenGal.jpg



Also, a Saiyan's SSJ potential is entirely dependent on the amount of "S Cells" they have..? Jesus, Tori has been watching WAY too much Phantom Menace, lol... It's canon, though. ermm

XD oh Lord.. so not ever saiyan can go ssj?

I dont get the SSG part? Was he one?

Pretty cool how the first SSJ was also the first SSG.

Makes you wonder if he was an ancestor of Goku and Vegeta. Making them related or something kinda like Naruto and Sasuke. (Would explain why they call all transform and what not so easily)

This proves Toriyama really is the Japanese George Lucas.

Originally posted by bbrem123
I dont get the SSG part? Was he one?

Pretty cool how the first SSJ was also the first SSG.

Makes you wonder if he was an ancestor of Goku and Vegeta. Making them related or something kinda like Naruto and Sasuke. (Would explain why they call all transform and what not so easily) Certainly possible... Especially now that we know these "S Cells" are passed down from generation to generation.

After all, when Shenron retold the story of the first SSG(ie. Yamoshi), he looked very similar to Vegeta:

https://i.imgur.com/dtAXixe.jpg


....mmm

This sounds more like Tokyo Ghoul than Star Wars, lmao.

The more I find out about super saiyans, the less cool it is to me

So wait... if having a "gentle heart" makes it so that you have more S-cells (presumably because being aggressive kills them off), then... what exactly is happening during the Super Saiyan God ritual? Did Goku legit eat Vegeta/Trunks/Goten/Gohan's S-cells?

Also, what is SSJ2 and SSJ3?

Superman knocks the S cells out of Goku.

Yeah it's off topic, who cares the topic is a joke! Even Aoki the clown would laugh at the circus Dragon Ball has become.

Da **** is this?



Toriyama needs to shut the hell up and sit in a corner.

Yeah, this dude has Alzheimer's or some shit. Wtf, S-cells? So what about a Legendary SSJ? Legendary S-cells? Lmao. I thought this shit was like Sharingan, not the ****ing blue cat people in Avatar.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yeah, this dude has Alzheimer's or some shit. Wtf, S-cells? So what about a Legendary SSJ? Legendary S-cells?

That one's easy; a massive overabundance of S-cells. And I suppose S-cells release a special kind of ki, which can be concentrated into Super Saiyan God Ki.

That doesn't explain SSJ2 or SSJ3, though.

Best development in the series. Finally Toriyama comes out and explain the nonsensical abilities that made the kids turn into super saiyans easily (contrary to Future Trunks who wasn't exactly in a safe environment).

Namekians also got some random rep in what could've been full Saiyan wank. Now we just need some explanation about the origins of Frieza's race.

Not really.

The S cell thing doesn't explain a thing about why they uniquely turned SSJ so easily, yet Gohan had to work at it and Bra didn't seem strong at all, or why hybrids are generally stronger then purebreds (Shouldn't that mean less S cell's, since kids only inherit part of each parents dna?)

It's not all in the genes, it's also the upbringing, Toriyama said that because of the rough condition of their native planet saiyans didn't develop as many S cells as they did in Earth. Gohan did put his body to extreme stress in his youth, effectively diminishing his ability to easily transform (same with future Trunks).

That plothole finally got a neat resolution!

Does Cell have S cells ?

I think he does.

Originally posted by Bentley
It's not all in the genes, it's also the upbringing, Toriyama said that because of the rough condition of their native planet saiyans didn't develop as many S cells as they did in Earth. Gohan did put his body to extreme stress in his youth, effectively diminishing his ability to easily transform (same with future Trunks).

That plothole finally got a neat resolution!

The kids stalled at SSJ1 though. By that logic, they should be UISSJBlackandBlue by now.

Now they just need to make a badass movie on this whole event.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So what about a Legendary SSJ? Legendary S-cells? They must have 'dormant' and/or 'recessive' S Cells.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Does Cell have S cells ?

I think he does. He should have a super-duper S Cell count, given that Goku AND Vegeta are part of his makeup. ermmnone

What does that make Freeza? F cells?

All those S and F Cells should make Cell Beerus+ level in a week.

Originally posted by cdtm
What does that make Freeza? F cells?

All those S and F Cells should make Cell Beerus+ level in a week. Might not be far from the truth, tbh.

I said it in another thread, but Cell has THE best theoretical potential in the franchise by a wide margin, imo. The most powerful Saiyans ever + Freeza + Piccolo..? Christ almighty...

Hell, look at what Freeza accomplished with a mere 4 months of training, ffs -- now just imagine Cell undergoing that same training... Golden SSB Cell, ftw! ermmhappy



*Cell's only possible rival in theoretical potential is Pure Boo(and by proxy Oob.) But I digress...

Originally posted by cdtm
The kids stalled at SSJ1 though. By that logic, they should be UISSJBlackandBlue by now.

Trunks will probably reach SSB by accident after farting a bit too hard, wait for it.

Galan, can Buu even get stronger by training?

Seems like all of his "potential" comes from absorbing other strong fighters.

Originally posted by cdtm
Galan, can Buu even get stronger by training?

Seems like all of his "potential" comes from absorbing other strong fighters. Dunno. All we know is that he's SSJ3-level on his own, and has seemingly never trained a day in his life. I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt, because we didn't know if Freeza could get stronger by training either... Then he DID. /shrug

Not entirely the case. Pure Boo's ability to adapt on the fly was pretty uncanny as well -- he was able to duplicate various abilities and such just by *seeing* them. I'd bet that if he were to buckle down and focus on training for a bit, he could become outrageously powerful(which is probably why EoZ Goku was so stoked to train/fight Oob.)

Hold on a second. Toryiama explains S-cells and how you need them to achieve super saiyan. That is great and all but wtf, UI completely makes this worthless. S-cell are not even needed as of right now. (Unless goku stacks on SSJ forms with UI since it technically isnt a form...)SSB UI Goku

The page I posted has nothing to do with UI -- it simply details the original Super Saiyan(and SSG).

UI is something else entirely, and certainly not exclusive to Saiyans. IOW, S Cells don't mean a thing where UI is concerned.

I know, I was just saying UI currently makes SSJ obsolete in a sense. Which kinda sucks. Unless they can still use SSJ forms in UI.

UI pretty much makes the legend of the SSJ not that great/special.

Originally posted by bbrem123
I know, I was just saying UI currently makes SSJ obsolete in a sense. Which kinda sucks. Unless they can still use SSJ forms in UI.

UI pretty much makes the legend of the SSJ not that great/special.

That's not true. It's much easier to obtain SSJ than it is to obtain UI. Even if SSJ requires certain cells, or whatever. There's probably ways to increase the level of S-cells a certain Saiyan has, just like white blood cells, etc. Goku and co. have basically lived in an ideal environment where they can train, eat, drink and sleep to their hearts content. That has a lot to do with it, from a biological standpoint. Every other Saiyan was practically a malnourished soldier. Of course a bodybuilder or a pro-boxer is gonna get bigger and stronger than a soldier, they have the ability to focus SOLELY on that, and not fighting wars and conquering planets all the time.

Also, UI isn't really a form, so it should theoretically be stack-able, just like Kaioken. It'd definitely be interesting to see who Goku could fight with, using UISSJB, lol.

Originally posted by Galan007
Might not be far from the truth, tbh.

I said it in another thread, but Cell has THE best theoretical potential in the franchise by a wide margin, imo. The most powerful Saiyans ever + Freeza + Piccolo..? Christ almighty...

Hell, look at what Freeza accomplished with a mere 4 months of training, ffs -- now just imagine Cell undergoing that same training... Golden SSB Cell, ftw! ermmhappy



*Cell's only possible rival in theoretical potential is Pure Boo(and by proxy Oob.) But I digress...

Yeah, I've had this discussion before, and I completely agree. Imagine if Cell gained SSJB, Golden form, and UI. He'd literally be unstoppable, lol. Most people forget that Cell was only around 4 years old during the Cell games.

Not to mention that he was also able to use a technique after seeing it only once, like Instant transmission. If he see's Beerus use a hakai, it's over. He could probably get stronger than Whiss in just a few months time, especially considering that he can use Kaioken on top of all his other forms, regenerate from a single cell, and gain zenkai boosts capable of over doubling his power every time he nearly dies.

Truly, if he had played his cards right, he could have gone on to take out the GoD's, and probably even the Angels, and then have the pleasure of being taken out by Zeno himself. Although, who knows. His potential is truly THAT impressive. With a little training, he could have been unstoppable.

Originally posted by bbrem123
I know, I was just saying UI currently makes SSJ obsolete in a sense. Which kinda sucks. Unless they can still use SSJ forms in UI.

UI pretty much makes the legend of the SSJ not that great/special. UI allows for maximization of one's ki/power/potential through massively amplified instinctual fighting prowess -- that's why UI Goku is so much more formidable than SSB Goku + 20xKK, for example. So in *that* regard, the power multipliers gained from SSJ transformations are still quite important... I mean, if you gave Saiyan saga Goku UI, for example, he certainly wouldn't be able to contend with Jiren.

IOW, if you're strong *without* UI, you'll be really strong *with* UI... SSJ transformations glean a very powerful 'base' for UI to expand upon, if that makes sense..?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Yeah, I've had this discussion before, and I completely agree. Imagine if Cell gained SSJB, Golden form, and UI. He'd literally be unstoppable, lol. Most people forget that Cell was only around 4 years old during the Cell games.

Not to mention that he was also able to use a technique after seeing it only once, like Instant transmission. If he see's Beerus use a hakai, it's over. He could probably get stronger than Whiss in just a few months time, especially considering that he can use Kaioken on top of all his other forms, regenerate from a single cell, and gain zenkai boosts capable of over doubling his power every time he nearly dies.

Truly, if he had played his cards right, he could have gone on to take out the GoD's, and probably even the Angels, and then have the pleasure of being taken out by Zeno himself. Although, who knows. His potential is truly THAT impressive. With a little training, he could have been unstoppable. Lol, ikr? Cell's theoretical potential is just ridiculous.


On that note, what's your take on the potential of Pure Boo/Oob?

An "0 to 60" all purpose powerup that makes even Mr. Satan invincible wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility, though.. It depends if Toriyama has a fondness for old kung fu movies or "Kung Fu Hustle".

For my money, I'd forgive everything if the tournament ended with Freeza blindsiding both an exausted Jiren and Goku, make his evil speech about how he'll use the wish, and suddenly a worked in Satan/Monaka with UI eyes one shots him.

So S-cell count can be high or low depending on genetics, and those cells thrive in a relaxed environment, and not in the battle-ridden lifestyles of most Saiyans. When activated, those cells undergo a physical transformation that causes hair/eye color to change, and they release a unique type of ki.

How much more powerful the user becomes when they transform depends on the number of S-cells they possess (so the multiplier may change from person to person), with the pinnacle being the Legendary Super Saiyan, who has a ludicrous overabundance of S-cells.

Finally, SSJG would be the result of 5 Saiyans isolating the special energy released by their S-cells (since normally it would be intermixed with their normal ki) and funneling it into one vessel. In other words, the ki produced by S-cells are divine by nature, but usually diluted by being mixed with normal ki. That's why Goku and Vegeta are able to learn to transform into gods by themselves; because after experiencing it, they can learn to isolate and concentrate that factor.

I suppose that only leaves the question of why Saiyans inherently have the potential to produce god ki. /shrug

That's like asking why namekians are capable of giving life to reality warping dragons.

magic.

the ball is in your court

Originally posted by Galan007
In a new and official interview with Akira Toriyama, he reveals the name of the first being who became Super Saiyan(and Super Saiyan God) before Goku... And his name was "Yamoshi":


Also, a Saiyan's SSJ potential is entirely dependent on the amount of "S Cells" they have..? Jesus, Tori has been watching WAY too much Phantom Menace, lol... It's canon, though. ermm


Damn, this is becoming really embarrasing. He should have stopped after DBZ... Compared to this Star Wars inspired crap GT seems like a superior show.

I wonder when he starts to give out S-Monkeychlorian numbers instead of powerlevels, I bet Gokus will be over 9000!!!

Not gonna lie this is the most pathetic series of reactions I've seen from you guys in a long while. My dudes, bullshit explanations for why Saiyans transform have existed long before this. The concept of psuedo science justifying these transformations predate the Super Saiyan transformation itself.

http://view.thespectrum.net/manga/Dragon%20Ball/Volume%2016/db_v16hq_116.JPG

And if it's about sullying the majesty of the Super Saiyan need I remind you that 3 children became SSJ before their balls dropped. Goten could kill Freeza before he could ****ing fly. Goku's second most powerful transformation is blue hair dye in the SSJ form.

I'm not saying it's unfair to think this is dumb. But this shit has been here from the beginning. You bought your tickets ages ago.

https://s18.postimg.org/vxp23o3i1/g_Jdcjg.jpg

Lets be honest, a change of hair and eye color isn't even really a "transformation". It's a cosmetic style.

Originally posted by cdtm
Lets be honest, a change of hair and eye color isn't even really a "transformation". It's a cosmetic style.

What is a blonde that dyed her hair to brown?

An AI.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Not gonna lie this is the most pathetic series of reactions I've seen from you guys in a long while. My dudes, bullshit explanations for why Saiyans transform have existed long before this. The concept of psuedo science justifying these transformations predate the Super Saiyan transformation itself.

http://view.thespectrum.net/manga/Dragon%20Ball/Volume%2016/db_v16hq_116.JPG

And if it's about sullying the majesty of the Super Saiyan need I remind you that 3 children became SSJ before their balls dropped. Goten could kill Freeza before he could ****ing fly. Goku's second most powerful transformation is blue hair dye in the SSJ form.

I'm not saying it's unfair to think this is dumb. But this shit has been here from the beginning. You bought your tickets ages ago.

Right on point.

Originally posted by cdtm
Lets be honest, a change of hair and eye color isn't even really a "transformation". It's a cosmetic style. Cosmetic or not, they're still transformations that increases their power several times over.

But yeah, where Saiyans are concerned the only full-on physical "transformations" I can think of(regardless of canonicity) are:

-Oozaru: it's a giant monkey, ffs.
-Broly's LSSJ: it literally bursts out from underneath his base form.
-SSJ4: it's look is akin to a base Saiyan/Oozaru hybrid... With pink fur.

*USSJ and SSJ3 are pretty extreme physical changes as well, but definitely not in the same vein as the above. Imo.

I guess the reason only Broly become LSSJ is cause he has the most LS cells....haermm

Originally posted by Estacado
I guess the reason only Broly become LSSJ is cause he has the most LS cells....haermm
But... but Goku is the chosen one!

I am waiting for freeza to tell Goku that he is his father.

I *do* wonder if an overabundance of S Cells(fused with divine ki, perhaps..?) is why Black's ki progressively increased in battle, with seemingly no limit..?

Originally posted by carver9
Right on point.

*Woosh*

Aura: "You guys chose to eat this manure, I don't want to hear you complain about it."

Carv: *Mouthful of manure*. Right on point.

Originally posted by Galan007
I *do* wonder if an overabundance of S Cells(fused with divine ki, perhaps..?) is why Black's ki progressively increased in battle, with seemingly no limit..?

Well producer of DBS in interview said Black was the strongest outside of Beerus... he flat out states that Black went on to have his own unique evolution/power-up thanks to Zamasus natural god ki in saiyan body and that's why he became the strongest "mortal" and so effective.

Makes sense. I mean, Goku and Vegeta really had no answer for Black's infinite ki, or future Zamasu's immortality... They came the closest to absolute victory that anyone has in the franchise, imo(especially after merging with the universe) -- the Z Fighters had absolutely NO way to win on their own.

It literally required THE most powerful being in the multiverse to directly intervene and expunge that entire universe/timeline from existence, in order to prevail.

Originally posted by Galan007
Makes sense. I mean, Goku and Vegeta really had no answer for Black's infinite ki, or future Zamasu's immortality... They came the closest to absolute victory that anyone has in the franchise, imo(especially after merging with the universe) -- the Z Fighters had absolutely NO way to win on their own.

It literally required THE most powerful being in the multiverse to directly intervene and expunge that entire universe/timeline from existence, in order to prevail.

Exactly.

Well, that brings up another question; what exactly is "ki"? I've heard it argued for that it's simply physical energy, but if that were the case, Goku and Goku Black would have identical ki, because their bodies are identical.

What role does the spirit play in ki? Is it like Naruto, where the power source is the result of fusing mental and physical energy?

Black was an anomaly. Even though Zamasu had the Super Dragon replace his body with Goku's, his own divine ki was somehow merged with the physical traits of Goku -- IOW, Black was basically Zamasu with a Goku wrapper... And somehow this merger of Saiyan and divine power created a vessel(ie. Black) whose ki could perpetually increase during battle, with no limit.

While Goku's powers work in a similar way(ie. he gets stronger in the heat of battle and receives zenkais to an extent), his body/power is still typically portrayed with a distinct limit. Black's wasn't... And it seems like the divine ki he was infused with is the reason why. /shrug

Anybody else want the saiyan tail to makea come back? It was iconic for them to have it. It was also considered their "true power".

Probably the one thing I enjoyed with GT.

If only Vegeta wasn't stuck with the 80's plastic suit color scheme.

Unlike Goku, for some reason Vegeta lost his tail when he reverted from SSJ4.

So with how easily Kale and Caulifa picked up the super saiyan transformation, can we assume they have even more s-cells then Trunks and goten?

With how quick Caulifla and Cabba attained SSJ2, the U6 saiyans might have more S-cells, but Trunks and Goten attained regular SSJ just as absurdly, so who knows.

Originally posted by Galan007
Makes sense. I mean, Goku and Vegeta really had no answer for Black's infinite ki, or future Zamasu's immortality... They came the closest to absolute victory that anyone has in the franchise, imo(especially after merging with the universe) -- the Z Fighters had absolutely NO way to win on their own.

It literally required THE most powerful being in the multiverse to directly intervene and expunge that entire universe/timeline from existence, in order to prevail.

True.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
With how quick Caulifla and Cabba attained SSJ2, the U6 saiyans might have more S-cells, but Trunks and Goten attained regular SSJ just as absurdly, so who knows.

It's probably because the saiyans of U6 live more leisurely lives.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
So with how easily Kale and Caulifa picked up the super saiyan transformation, can we assume they have even more s-cells then Trunks and goten? Hard to say.

Caulifla, for example, was able to reach SSJ after a few seconds of focusing, just because Cabba told her it felt like a 'tingly feeling' in her back, lol(she then ascended to SSJ2 in much the same manner)... She was also ridiculously powerful for a n00b SSJ/SSJ2. And Kale's LSSJ transformation came almost as easily to her as well -- she just had to have an emotional catalyst along with the 'tingly feeling' the first few times she transformed.

Flip side, the boys were much younger when they went SSJ, and were also ridiculously powerful all things considered. Difference is: Goten and Trunks each reached SSJ naturally -- they didn't have any formal training from the adult Saiyans to teach them how to reach SSJ easier(at least Kale/Caulifa had that, minimal at is was.) /shrug


So if S-Cells = SSJ *potential*, it's damn hard to figure out who the better prodigies are between the boys and the girls. However, if S-Cells = SSJ *power*, then the girls are far superior.

*A few more tidbits from Akira Toriyama's interview in the January 2018 issue of Saikyo Jump...

-Source


So a Saiyan's S-Cell count can be increased by any/all of the following:
1.) Being raised in a calm/hospitable environment.
2.) Having a gentle heart.
3.) Having a high battle power.

IOW, if the current Saiyans stay pure hearted and continue training, they can perpetually boost their S-Cell count, which will increase their overall SSJ potential by proxy(ie. they essentially do not have a limit/cap to their powers.)

Interesting... mmm

...


This retcon gets more and more bizarre.

They will be pure s-cells soon lol

Originally posted by bbrem123
They will be pure s-cells soon lol The next revelation...

https://i.imgur.com/vfJEjb3.jpg