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-Goten & Trunks (Boo-era)-
http://s16.postimg.org/og1x82mlx/image.gif http://s16.postimg.org/xp8ovxkvp/image.gif


VS.


-x1 Cell Junior-
http://s7.postimg.org/3tl1476nv/imageedit_12_8326841626.gif



-The boys are at their peaks, and are not holding back.
-No fusion, obviously.


Do the boys have any chance here?

Wasn't a single Cell Jr. dominating Super Vegeta?

No, ASSJ Vegeta and ASSJ Trunks were able to hold their own against the Cell Juniors in the manga(albeit barely):

https://i.imgur.com/LB1hIM6.jpg

Together...they have a real chance, but they'd still lose majority honestly.

Mmh, nahhh, the boy's definitely take this, easy. SSJ1 Boo Era Gohan was able to fight on par with a Perfect Cell level opponent(Dabura), and Goten was equal to him, with Trunks being superior to both.

Trunks and Goten would both be above even the level of mastered SSJ Goku from the Cell saga, based on their showings. They'd both be in-between MSSJ Goku and SSJ2 Cell saga Gohan, with Trunks being slightly closer to Gohan.

Honestly, this would be a much better fight if it was the actual Perfect Cell himself. A Cell Jr. wouldn't be much against them.

Perfect Cell would stomp the boys, tbh... He's FAR too skilled for them to contend with, even if you think they have around the same level of raw power.

A Cell Junior makes this much more fair in that regard.

Gohan was supposed to be SSJ2 against Darbura, imo.

Vegeta's comments about his power drop make no sense if he's able to hold his own as a SSJ1.

The kids should be nowhere near Super Perfect Cell. A Cell Junior, maybe.

This has come up before, but Gohan literally MUST have been SSJ2 against Dabra.

After all, we know for a fact that at the time Gohan fought Dabra, he was a LOT weaker than he was during the Cell Games across the board. This is important because during the Cell Games, even FPSSJ Gohan was still markedly below a suppressed Perfect Cell... So for a MUCH weaker version of Gohan to contend with a Perfect Cell-level being, means he MUST have been SSJ2 -- anything less would have been stomped with utter ease.

ie. SSJ2 Gohan(Boo-era) ~ Dabra ~ Perfect Cell > FPSSJ Gohan(Cell-era) > FPSSJ Gohan(Boo-era).


^^That is the only possibility, tbh.

Originally posted by Galan007
Perfect Cell would stomp the boys, tbh... He's FAR too skilled for them to contend with, even if you think they have around the same level of raw power.

A Cell Junior makes this much more fair in that regard.

Mmh, skill shouldn't make that much of a difference in this scenario. Skill only got to the point where it could put you above someone ten times stronger than you, in Super. During the Cell saga, skill only helped you against your peers.

That being said, I did misspeak. I forgot that Gohan was most likely SSJ2 against Dabura, and depending on how you see it, that would be the identifier that takes the boys from ASSJ Vegeta level, to Perfect Cell level. Honestly, SSJ2 Gohan should be around MSSJ Goku's level, during the Buu saga. This would make the boys around half as strong as that, so probably around ASSJ Vegeta level, with Trunks being above even that.

So depending on what level of SSJ Gohan was against Dabura, this fight could become a lot more interesting. In either case though, the boys should be more than capable of taking on a single Cell Jr. by themselves.

Since Dabra is roughly on par with Perfect Cell, we can confidently say that Boo-era SSJ2 Gohan was still a good deal more powerful than FPSSJ Goku was during the Cell Games. Remember, even during his fight with Goku, Cell was still suppressing a considerable amount of power -- only showing his *full* power after Gohan went SSJ2.


With that in mind, this is how I have the scaling...

SSJ2 Gohan(Cell-era) >> Perfect Cell(full power) ~ Dabra ~ SSJ2 Gohan(Boo-era) > Perfect Cell(slightly suppressed) > FPSSJ Gohan(Cell-era) ~/> FPSSJ Goku(Cell-era) > FPSSJ kid Trunks > FPSSJ Goten = FPSSJ Gohan(Boo-era).


*Where the Cell Juniors are concerned: ASSJ Vegeta & Trunks were able to hold their own against them initially, but as time went on they likely would have been overwhelmed... So the Juniors probably had better durability/stamina if nothing else... Couple that with their fighting skill, and I think this would be a great fight. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Since Dabra is roughly on par with Perfect Cell, we can confidently say that Boo-era SSJ2 Gohan was still a good deal more powerful than FPSSJ Goku was during the Cell Games. Remember, even during his fight with Goku, Cell was still suppressing a considerable amount of power -- only showing his *full* power after Gohan went SSJ2.


With that in mind, this is how I have the scaling...

SSJ2 Gohan(Cell-era) >> Perfect Cell(full power) ~ Dabra ~ SSJ2 Gohan(Boo-era) > Perfect Cell(slightly suppressed) > FPSSJ Gohan(Cell-era) ~/> FPSSJ Goku(Cell-era) > FPSSJ kid Trunks > FPSSJ Goten = FPSSJ Gohan(Boo-era).


*Where the Cell Juniors are concerned: ASSJ Vegeta & Trunks were able to hold their own against them initially, but as time went on they likely would have been overwhelmed... So the Juniors probably had better durability/stamina if nothing else... Couple that with their fighting skill, and I think this would be a great fight. /shrug

I can agree with most of that scale, for sure.

However, what I don't think you're considering here, is by how much stronger Cell was, than Goku.

MSSJ Gohan was roughly equal to Goku, and with only a 2x power boost, was able to effortlessly embarrass full power Perfect Cell. So Cell couldn't have been THAT much stronger. He might have been holding back just a little bit, but not enough to the point where he could have fought and defeated MSSJ Gohan right after his battle with Goku, without having a senzu bean. If Gohan had been serious or interested in fighting at all, that is.

With that being said, I also don't think you're giving the boys enough credit. They really hadn't gotten serious throughout the entire series, until the point where Trunks kicked Majin Buu away from Vegeta. You've argued yourself, that what he accomplished while enraged was more impressive than what we assume to be SSJ2 Gohan, when he kicked Buu. It's also important to note that Buu was off-guard both times.

While Trunks was enraged, this wasn't the point in the series yet where being angry could make you hundreds of times stronger, and allow you to damage a GoD. Imo, this scene was strongly implying MSSJ Trunks to be on par with even SSJ2 Gohan(Buu era), if not even slightly superior. However, Gohan was very tired and weakened, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Regardless, that should still put MSSJ Trunks AROUND SSJ2 Buu saga Gohan's level. This would make a lot of sense, given that Vegeta and Goku both seemed to imply being able to easily defeat Dabura as SSJ1's. While they're both much stronger than Goten and Trunks, this helps polarize the gap between Gohan and them, as well as Gohan and the boys, imo. I think it would be very fair to put Goten and Trunks closer to SSJ2 Gohan than SSJ1. That's just my opinion, but I feel like the boys are certainly stronger than Gohan, baring SSJ2.

Cell Junior wrecks these kids.

Originally posted by vansonbee
Cell Junior wrecks these kids.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
MSSJ Gohan was roughly equal to Goku, and with only a 2x power boost, was able to effortlessly embarrass full power Perfect Cell. So Cell couldn't have been THAT much stronger. All I know is that when Perfect Cell finally used his *full* power, all of the Z Fighters(inc. Goku) were shocked by it. This indicates a significant increase... Obviously less than 2x, but still quite substantial to induce that sort of reaction from everyone. /shrug

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
With that being said, I also don't think you're giving the boys enough credit. Lol, seriously!? I have been the boys' primary advocate for YEARS now, as most people are swift to overlook them without realizing just how f*cking powerful they actually were... No one has argued on their behalf more than me.

That said, I'm still giving credit where credit is due. A Cell Junior is likely just as powerful as the boys individually, and a LOT more skilled... Whoever wins, it's hard-earned. Imo.

Originally posted by vansonbee
Cell Junior wrecks these kids. 'wrecks' implies that you think the CJ wins easily... So I'd really like to hear your rationale behind that.

If a Cell Junior was stronger than ASSJ Vegeta, how do they have a chance? Vegeta himself can take both the kids on, if he treats them as a serious threat. Also, Android 18 was able to handle both of them during the tournament and individually she can take them 1 on 1. She probably weaker than a Cell Jr still during the boo arc. Kid Trunks attack against fat buu was due to a rage boost, just like Vegeta did against Beerus during BOG and future Trunks vs. Zamasu.

Originally posted by vansonbee
If a Cell Junior was stronger than ASSJ Vegeta, how do they have a chance? Vegeta himself can take both the kids on, if he treats them as a serious threat. Why do you think Cell-era ASSJ Vegeta is above BOTH the boys? Goten alone is canonically equal to Boo-era FPSSJ Gohan, and kid Trunks is slightly more powerful than Goten.

Originally posted by vansonbee
Also, Android 18 was able to handle both of them during the tournament and individually she can take them 1 on 1. You need to reread the boys' 'fight' with #18 if you really think that's how it went... You're forgetting(or ignoring) a LOT of key context there.

Originally posted by vansonbee
Kid Trunks attack against fat buu was due to a rage boost, just like Vegeta did against Beerus during BOG and future Trunks vs. Zamasu. Cool. Gohan was ALSO enraged/angered, and his kick didn't do nearly as much to Fat Boo. Moreover, Gohan was presumably SSJ2 at the time.

Originally posted by Galan007
All I know is that when Perfect Cell finally used his *full* power, all of the Z Fighters(inc. Goku) were shocked by it. This indicates a significant increase... Obviously less than 2x, but still quite substantial to induce that sort of reaction from everyone. /shrug

Lol, seriously!? I have been the boys' primary advocate for YEARS now, as most people are swift to overlook them without realizing just how f*cking powerful they actually were... No one has argued on their behalf more than me.

That said, I'm still giving credit where credit is due. A Cell Junior is likely just as powerful as the boys individually, and a LOT more skilled... Whoever wins, it's hard-earned. Imo.

Mmh, well I'm not too sure about that, but it's not really relevant, anyways. It still means he was obviously far less than twice as strong. This is apparent due to the fact that SSJ1 MSSJ Gohan < Perfect Cell < Perfect Cell full power < SSJ2 Gohan. Clearly Cell didn't have that much power to spare, it was most likely just surprising that he had more than he was already releasing. Honestly, if Goku was a 10, and SSJ2 Gohan was a 20, that would put Cell at around a 13 or maybe a 14 at full power. That's being generous, given the magnitude of difference between Cell and Gohan, that was only present to a far smaller degree between Cell and Goku.

I also redact my previous statement- while I think the boys are a bit stronger than you're leading on, at least you're not some dumb ass who thinks Android 18 can take on both of them at full power, lmao.

Regardless, I think that the boys should take this handily, tbh. While the Cell Jr. has more skill, both parties lack experience, with the advantage in that actually leaning in favor of the boys. Both of them have been fighting since their early childhood.

Also, there are very few scenes where we ever see the boys get serious. Most of their feats have been vastly impressive, but have been performed casually, while simply playing around and viewing battle as a game- they are 7 and 8 respectively, after all. When the boys DO get serious, they accomplish some RIDICULOUS FEATS. To the point where it's literally scary, if we're being honest.

http://i4.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/489/dragon-ball-72111.jpg

Exhibit A: Goten and Trunks go immediately into the ROSAT, and start training with no difficulty or even mention of how taxing it is, simply to survive in the ROSAT. The same place that baffled Mirai Trunks and Vegeta, by how harsh and hazardous it was once you step out of the small sanctuary. These two, Goten especially, had no trouble whatsoever getting acclimated to the room- since they had gotten serious, which is a rare occasion for them.

http://i3.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/490/dragon-ball-72124.jpg

This was another instance of the boys being serious, in which they did something amazing. See Super Buu punching Trunks, right there? He did that with the intent to KILL a powerful warrior. The remarkable feat here lies with Trunks being able to SURVIVE, and even stay conscious, after taking a serious blow from Super Buu. I'm not implying that this puts Trunks on his level, by any means. But it clearly shows that his durability is impressive when he's serious, considering a similar blow from a far weaker form of Buu almost KILLED a powered up Dabura, almost knocked out a full power SSJ2 Gohan, and bloodied a full power SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, who was IOW's stronger than SSJ2 Gohan during the Cell saga.

Trunks in BASE form tanked one of those hits. Base form Gohan probably wouldn't have survived.

http://i6.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/467/dragon-ball-71834.jpg

http://i6.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/467/dragon-ball-71835.jpg

And of course, the kick that sent Buu flying, from Trunks. This kick literally did leaps and bounds more to Buu than anything SSJ2 Gohan did, and it's not like Buu was just relaxing, even though he was caught off-guard. He was attacking Vegeta, and exerting a lot more power than he was when Gohan attacked him. This is why I would honestly put Trunks even on par with or slightly above SSJ2 Gohan, when Trunks is serious.

That's the disappointing thing- the boys so rarely get serious, that they just don't get recognized as being as powerful as they really are.

I think Goku and Vegeta operate on similar levels to the boys, in the same forms. SSJ1 Goku and Vegeta would probably be very similar in terms of power to the boys, if all parties were serious. Gohan is the weak-link in this case, possibly being even weaker than Goten. I mean, Gohan was definitely on the defensive when he was fighting Goten as SSJ1, and had to fly to escape. That alone says a lot, given the fact that Goten was still just playing around, and Gohan was completely overwhelmed.