Are Gender Identify and Sexuality Directly Linked?

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dadudemon
1. Has this been researched?

2. Do we get to dictate people's gender identity based on their sexuality, too?

3. Is sexuality even relevant when considering how someone identifies their gender?

4. Are you Sir Whirly Splatt?

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by dadudemon
1. Has this been researched?

2. Do we get to dictate people's gender identity based on their sexuality, too?

3. Is sexuality even relevant when considering how someone identifies their gender?

4. Are you Sir Whirly Splatt?

Let's add one more.

5) Should an age of consent be given for an individual to change their gender previously designated by their biology? Or should we allow children who have difficulty deciding which flavor of Ice Cream they wish to choose a choice against there fundamental biology.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Let's add one more.

5) Should an age of consent be given for an individual to change their gender previously designated by their biology? Or should we allow children who have difficulty deciding which flavor of Ice Cream they wish to choose a choice against there fundamental biology.

What are your answers to 1-4?


As for 5: irrelevant. Non sequitur. Age of consent is based on a number, not a gender or gender identity. haermm

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by dadudemon
What are your answers to 1-4?


As for 5: irrelevant. Non sequitur. Age of consent is based on a number, not a gender or gender identity. haermm

I disagree, I have no problem who an adult chooses to be, although I would raise the age of consent to 21 for this inline with alcohol.

1-3 have already been answered in the other thread.

4 ask a mod or go with your gut.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
I disagree,

Why? What specifically do you disagree with?

An 11-year old born as a normal male who has an XY chromosomal pair can identify as a female, if that person chooses. The age of consent law doesn't magically change because of that.




Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
1-3 have already been answered in the other thread.

You did? Where? Quote the posts and number them for me because I am too dumb to see it.

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by dadudemon

You did? Where? Quote the posts and number them for me because I am too dumb to see it.

No, you are choosing not to read them their is a difference. I am certainly not re-posting them. Why be Obdurate matey.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
No, you are choosing not to read them their is a difference. I am certainly not re-posting them. Why be Obdurate matey.

Because I read the whole thread and I do not see them. And I admit that I may be too dumb to understand. This gives you the chance to fully make your points while providing me the opportunity to ask clarifying questions.

If you were genuinely interested in discourse, you'd quote yourself, just like I have.

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by dadudemon
Because I read the whole thread and I do not see them. And I admit that I may be too dumb to understand. This gives you the chance to fully make your points while providing me the opportunity to ask clarifying questions.

If you were genuinely interested in discourse, you'd quote yourself, just like I have.

DDM, you are well aware of what's there. Now chill pal, we are all in agreement minors should not be allowed to change gender. Your misdirection tactics don't matter their is no gallery, just polarised posters.

Afro Cheese
By sexuality you mean orientation, and not sex? I'm not sure if know the answers to 1-3.

As for question 5... Maybe an 11 year old can call themselves whatever gender they want.. but the physical transition stuff like hormones and surgery seems a bit irresponsible under a certain age to me.

BackFire
Originally posted by dadudemon
1. Has this been researched?

2. Do we get to dictate people's gender identity based on their sexuality, too?

3. Is sexuality even relevant when considering how someone identifies their gender?

4. Are you Sir Whirly Splatt?

1. Dunno

2. Probably not.

3. Probably not.

4. Yes I am.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
DDM, you are well aware of what's there.



Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Now chill pal,

I am chill. What, you think your tactics got me bothered? Sorry, you're not that good. Probably no one gets upset around these parts. And the ones that did are no longer with us.


Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
we are all in agreement minors should not be allowed to change gender.

I most certainly do not agree with that.

You've yet to define your use of "gender" and "sex" so how is it possible for us to agree or disagree?


Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Your misdirection tactics don't matter their is no gallery, just polarised posters.

I guess this is a troll attempt or something? I'm too dumb to get it to fall into the trap. Tell me how you want me to react and I'll be a better troll-ee for you.

Kurk
According to my psych prof, no.

dadudemon
Originally posted by BackFire
1. Dunno

2. Probably not.

3. Probably not.

4. Yes I am.

1. We knew that.

2. Obvious.

3. Obvious.

4. BANNED!

cdtm
Question 5: Why the fixation on gender identity anyways?

There's a woman everyone knows about in town, who wasn't born a woman. I had dinner with her (At a party). Talked with friends/family about her. Nobody cared.

Nobody cared what she identified as, or where she went to the bathroom.

dadudemon
Originally posted by cdtm
Question 5: Why the fixation on gender identity anyways?

There's a woman everyone knows about in town, who wasn't born a woman. I had dinner with her (At a party). Talked with friends/family about her. Nobody cared.

Nobody cared what she identified as, or where she went to the bathroom.

As I pointed out out in the other thread, I just don't need to be involved in everyone's live. Unless they are a friend or family, I'm not going to give two shits.

I really really don't care. Be a man. Be a woman. Whatever. I don't need to know about it unless we have some sort of relationship.

like you said...who cares? Just leave each other alone. Unless you are mutual friends, why get involved in personal things like that?


But the butt-anger about minors, right?

Afro Cheese
Well, it also doesn't affect me if people let their young teens drink, smoke or have sex. But I do think that it's somewhat irresponsible regardless, and I support laws against that sort of thing.

Once again I'm more referring to the physical transition that many trans folk decide to undergo. I believe this question is going to be a hot button issue for some time... As there is also a decent argument to be made that the transition will be more effective if you start the process before puberty hits.

Surtur
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Well, it also doesn't affect me if people let their young teens drink, smoke or have sex. But I do think that it's somewhat irresponsible regardless, and I support laws against that sort of thing.

Once again I'm more referring to the physical transition that many trans folk decide to undergo. I believe this question is going to be a hot button issue for some time... As there is also a decent argument to be made that the transition will be more effective if you start the process before puberty hits.

And most people here won't suffer much, if at all, from climate change.

Flyattractor
So Climate Change is just Maw Nature getting her Period?

I could buy that.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Well, it also doesn't affect me if people let their young teens drink, smoke or have sex. But I do think that it's somewhat irresponsible regardless, and I support laws against that sort of thing.

Actually, it does affect you when a teen DUI, smokes, or does other things. Only if the teen does drugs while in a safe environment.

And, no, you're not affected at all when a teen has sex...IIF they have adequate sex education and liberal access to birth control.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Once again I'm more referring to the physical transition that many trans folk decide to undergo. I believe this question is going to be a hot button issue for some time... As there is also a decent argument to be made that the transition will be more effective if you start the process before puberty hits.

Right. Same arguments I made. All the transsexuals I personally know, knew they were the gender that they felt they were, long before puberty. At best the argument, that they are making the wrong decision about their gender, is weak. At worst, it is harmful and bigoted towards the Trans community.


However...I would rather err on the side of caution and be fearful of letting children go under the knife. Instead, allow for delayed puberty options under the watchful care of a physician.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by dadudemon
Same arguments I made. All the transsexuals I personally know, knew they were the gender that they felt they were, long before puberty. At best the argument, that they are making the wrong decision about their gender, is weak. At worst, it is harmful and bigoted towards the Trans community.
The problem I have with this as an argument is that it excludes the people who felt confused about their gender identity who were younger who ended up adjusted to their birth sex by adulthood. Like you can say all transgender people felt that way when they were younger, but that doesn't mean everyone who feels that way younger winds up a transgender adult.

Afro Cheese
Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, it does affect you when a teen DUI, smokes, or does other things. Only if the teen does drugs while in a safe environment. not in any direct way... Unless the drunk teen happens to hit me or someone I love

even if they don't and give each other aids or get pregnant it most likely won't have anything to do with me

I wouldn't even delay puberty. I feel the trans people are very likely deluded and I wouldn't advise altering a child's biology in any way based on that delusion.

Mindship
My sense of this situation is as follows:

Mind and body are two aspects of the same entity. This has been part of the meditative perspective for millennia, as well as modern science, and heck, even common sense points us in this direction. The notion that mind and body coexist, but somehow separately, is a holdover from the Cartesian paradigm, which, IMHO, is wrong because it stems from the ego's desire to distance itself from death, ie, to distance itself from the demonstrably frail, mortal body (not a good thing to be attached to if you like feeling immortal).

That said, gender and sex are Not unrelated. If a person feels he/she is not entirely one gender or the other, this will be reflected somehow, somewhere in the body: genetically, hormonally, etc. This also means, that unless one's body is in constant metamorphosis, *gender fluid* is a myth, a myth put forth, I suspect, by (at best) adolescent exploration/experimentation, or (at worst) snowflakes determined to be *unique*.

#worldaccordingtome

Afro Cheese
Maybe someone who identifies as trans will have some sort of biological indicators of that disposition. But it seems to me that when they decide to go through a physical transition that it's essentially to "correct" the discrepancy between what they look like on the outside and what they feel like on the inside. So in these cases it seems their gender identity as they conceptualize it is actually not reflected in their emergent biology.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Mindship
My sense of this situation is as follows:

Mind and body are two aspects of the same entity. This has been part of the meditative perspective for millennia, as well as modern science, and heck, even common sense points us in this direction. The notion that mind and body coexist, but somehow separately, is a holdover from the Cartesian paradigm, which, IMHO, is wrong because it stems from the ego's desire to distance itself from death, ie, to distance itself from the demonstrably frail, mortal body (not a good thing to be attached to if you like feeling immortal).

That said, gender and sex are Not unrelated. If a person feels he/she is not entirely one gender or the other, this will be reflected somehow, somewhere in the body: genetically, hormonally, etc. This also means, that unless one's body is in constant metamorphosis, *gender fluid* is a myth, a myth put forth, I suspect, by (at best) adolescent exploration/experimentation, or (at worst) snowflakes determined to be *unique*.

#worldaccordingtome

As always, a very well thought out and informed post by Mindship. over 10 years later and reading your posts can still sometimes bring a surprise and joy.

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by Mindship
My sense of this situation is as follows:

Mind and body are two aspects of the same entity. This has been part of the meditative perspective for millennia, as well as modern science, and heck, even common sense points us in this direction. The notion that mind and body coexist, but somehow separately, is a holdover from the Cartesian paradigm, which, IMHO, is wrong because it stems from the ego's desire to distance itself from death, ie, to distance itself from the demonstrably frail, mortal body (not a good thing to be attached to if you like feeling immortal).

That said, gender and sex are Not unrelated. If a person feels he/she is not entirely one gender or the other, this will be reflected somehow, somewhere in the body: genetically, hormonally, etc. This also means, that unless one's body is in constant metamorphosis, *gender fluid* is a myth, a myth put forth, I suspect, by (at best) adolescent exploration/experimentation, or (at worst) snowflakes determined to be *unique*.

#worldaccordingtome

I don't disagree with any of that old pal.

-Whirly

Mindship
Originally posted by dadudemon
As always, a very well thought out and informed post by Mindship. over 10 years later and reading your posts can still sometimes bring a surprise and joy. Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
I don't disagree with any of that old pal. Thank you, gentlemen.

-Whirly ... KMC's guardian angel still watching over us big grin

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
So in these cases it seems their gender identity as they conceptualize it is actually not reflected in their emergent biology. "Seems" may be the operative word. As I understand it, the feeling of being in the "wrong sex" body may stem from how the brain and body developed in the womb, ie, they were not hormonally "in synch." Thus, while Caitlin Jenner, eg, may've been conceived genetically, physiologically as male, when it came time for testosterone to kick in to fully masculinize the fetus (male or female, I think it's first exposed to estrogen in the womb -- testosterone comes later), her brain, so to speak, did not get its fair share.

Afro Cheese
I don't think we are disagreeing. I'm saying I acknowledge there might be a biological indicator that Jenner is trans... But this still doesn't manifest itself in her looking the way she feels. Because if it did there would be no need to do hormones, surgery, etc.

Mindship
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I don't think we are disagreeing. I'm saying I acknowledge there might be a biological indicator that Jenner is trans... But this still doesn't manifest itself in her looking the way she feels. Because if it did there would be no need to do hormones, surgery, etc. Agreed. That really would be gender-fluid otherwise. I think there's a species of fish that changes sex.

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by Mindship


... KMC's guardian angel still watching over us big grin

Hardly anyone is on the forum from that time now. It is actually a long time. Nice to see you are still here.

Mindship
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Hardly anyone is on the forum from that time now. It is actually a long time. Nice to see you are still here. Those were the days, my friend. And we still have the likes of dadudemon and other, sometimes newer, colorful characters.

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by Mindship
Those were the days, my friend. And we still have the likes of dadudemon and other, sometimes newer, colorful characters. Yes Dadudemon is often seen as a troll like I am, however, there is much more to him. Most of the most colourful are long gone sadly.

Scribble
Mindship, have you had the same avatar/sig for many years now?


I predate this account and I'm pretty sure I remember seeing your sig/avi as early as circa 2007

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by Scribble
Mindship, have you had the same avatar/sig for many years now?


I predate this account and I'm pretty sure I remember seeing your sig/avi as early as circa 2007

He's always had it.

Scribble
Thought so. Been constantly impressed by his posts for the whole time I've been here, then. Major props.

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by Scribble
Thought so. Been constantly impressed by his posts for the whole time I've been here, then. Major props. Yup, he is a good guy, one of the unsung of KMC like Illadelph, Blair Wind and Leonidas down in the comics section, hell even like Kris Blaze who has a brain between his ears on most things

Mindship
Originally posted by Scribble
Mindship, have you had the same avatar/sig for many years now?

I predate this account and I'm pretty sure I remember seeing your sig/avi as early as circa 2007 Heh, I was wondering how long I've had them. And it probably is earlier than that.
Originally posted by Scribble
Thought so. Been constantly impressed by his posts for the whole time I've been here, then. Major props. *bows*
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Yup, he is a good guy, one of the unsung of KMC like Illadelph, Blair Wind and Leonidas down in the comics section, hell even like Kris Blaze who has a brain between his ears on most things Do we get statues? BTW, back when I was more of a Surfer fanboy, Blaze had set me straight about the Surfer-Loki fight, so he gets his statue first.

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by Mindship
Heh, I was wondering how long I've had them. And it probably is earlier than that.
*bows*
Do we get statues? BTW, back when I was more of a Surfer fanboy, Blaze had set me straight about the Surfer-Loki fight, so he gets his statue first.

I think statues are a good idea, I remember when that guy did fantasy pictures of everyone, that was very good.

Mindship
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
I remember when that guy did fantasy pictures of everyone, that was very good. Here at KMC? I don't remember that. Who was it?

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by Mindship
Here at KMC? I don't remember that. Who was it? Blight I think, he had me as an evil ernie faced Genie being released from a bottle, wish I still had it tbh.

Mindship
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Blight I think, he had me as an evil ernie faced Genie being released from a bottle, wish I still had it tbh. Name's vaguely familiar. Must've been back in TheOmega days ('memba her?). We actually had a few KMC women then.

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by Mindship
Name's vaguely familiar. Must've been back in TheOmega days ('memba her?). We actually had a few KMC women then. Don't think I do MS. We still have Sin as a member bless her.

Mindship
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
We still have Sin as a member bless her. Indeed, especially if she is the last of her kind. The Last Daughter of KMC.

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by Mindship
Indeed, especially if she is the last of her kind. The Last Daughter of KMC. There are a few in the OT forum, but all the ones I knew have gone.

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