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Trump officially recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital, orders embassy move for US

I'm curious if people think this is the right thing to do. If yes, why? If no, why?

I don't know enough about the situation with regards to Jerusalem and why it's so controversial for it to be the Israeli capital. I understand that large parts of it are on land seized by Israel but beyond that, not much.

I see from the news this morning that it has already incited a violent backlash and calls from the Hamas leader for a third intifada.

Seems to me a lot of people will die over something totally unnecessary.

Originally posted by jaden101
Seems to me a lot of people will die over something totally unnecessary.

Jerusalem is a holy city for Palestinians as well as Israelis, so both sides claim it as their capital city. Essentially, Trump is siding with the Israelis against the Palestinians.

If peace were truly the goal, this move is pointless and will cause a lot of damage. People will die, terrorism will increase, the peaceful Palestinian faction in the West Bank will no longer have any leverage and Hamas will be strengthened.

Originally posted by jaden101

Seems to me a lot of people will die over something totally unnecessary.

Originally posted by Firefly218

If peace were truly the goal, this move is pointless and will cause a lot of damage. People will die, terrorism will increase, the peaceful Palestinian faction in the West Bank will no longer have any leverage and Hamas will be strengthened.

so lots of innocent people will suffer and die. whatever it takes to keep us distracted from trump's scandals.

Yes on all the above. The State Department also warned Trumpco ahead of time that doing this will cause a wave of violence and breakdown talks/concessions. Trump didn't care.

Because they have been so peaceful so far, right? So loving for the past 22 years?

Originally posted by Surtur
Because they have been so peaceful so far, right? So loving for the past 22 years?

^ A Red Herring, cos Trump can't be criticized

The point you're trying to distract from: This will cause MORE violence and further "Us Vs Them" sentiment in regards to the Israel/Palestine conflict.

sure let's also set every square mile of california on fire, because it's already on fire so what's the difference?

Originally posted by Robtard
^ A Red Herring, cos Trump can't be criticized

The point you're trying to distract from: This will cause MORE violence and further "Us Vs Them" sentiment in regards to the Israel/Palestine conflict.

I never said Trump can't be criticized. My point is Trump has a point. This has done nothing, we haven't achieved peace.

If some Islamic terrorists are going to throw a fit why should we capitulate to them?

Let me put it another way. These people were terrorists the day before Trump did this, just like they are the day after.

Originally posted by Surtur
I never said Trump can't be criticized. My point is Trump has a point. This has done nothing, we haven't achieved peace.

If some Islamic terrorists are going to throw a fit why should we capitulate to them?

Here you go, sport. Already covered above:

Originally posted by Firefly218

If peace were truly the goal, this move is pointless and will cause a lot of damage. People will die, terrorism will increase, the peaceful Palestinian faction in the West Bank will no longer have any leverage and Hamas will be strengthened.

The goal is to do something he said he'd do, that other presidents said they would do, but failed.

The Knesset is located in Jerusalem. It should be their capital. Islamists terrorists do not get to dictate our actions no more than they can dictate who draws a picture in a magazine.

TIL: EVERY Palestinian is an "Islamic Terrorist"

One thing for sure, this will make it all that much easier for terrorist groups like Hamas to recruit young impressionable men and boys into their ranks. Islamic terrorist groups thrive on a strong "Islam Vs The West/Rest" mentality.

Originally posted by Robtard
TIL: EVERY Palestinian is an "Islamic Terrorist"

One thing for sure, this will make it all that much easier for terrorist groups like Hamas to recruit young impressionable men and boys into their ranks. Islamic terrorist groups thrive on a strong "Islam Vs The West/Rest" mentality.

I never said every single one is lol. The ones that are gonna go out and murder people over this? Yeah, they are.

Originally posted by Surtur
The goal is to do something he said he'd do, that other presidents said they would do, but failed.

The Knesset is located in Jerusalem. It should be their capital. Islamists terrorists do not get to dictate our actions no more than they can dictate who draws a picture in a magazine.

No other presidents have done this, because it is a bad idea. In fact, that is why Trump himself reversed his position on this after he was warned about the possible ramifications.

He is reversing position yet again to shore up his approval ratings with his base. Doing something needlessly provocative is not good foreign policy.

In any given situation, one can choose to "be right," or he can choose to do what works. And if the goal is to bring peace to the region, this strategy does the exact opposite of that.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No other presidents have done this, because it is a bad idea. In fact, that is why Trump himself reversed his position on this after he was warned about the possible ramifications.

He is reversing position yet again to shore up his approval ratings with his base. Doing something needlessly provocative is not good foreign policy.

In any given situation, one can choose to "be right," or he can choose to do what works. And if the goal is to bring peace to the region, this strategy does the exact opposite of that.

And having things as they are hasn't brought peace either. Next.

Okay and I am not talking about the peaceful ones. I am talking about the ones willing to go out and murder people over this. I'm not sure what is hard to get there, I never said they were all bad. But there is NO excuse for murder over this.

Originally posted by Surtur
And having things as they are hasn't brought peace either. Next.

Seems you support Trump and this on the "it's something different" reason. That's fine and all for some things but when outside forces like The State Department are warning that even more bloodshed will ensue and we're talking about lives being lost. How do you justify that?

edit: Innocent lives, not just terrorist. In case that's not clear

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
it's just more of his pathetic strategy of "i suddenly and conveniently don't care about moral and ethical issues"

Lol, the funny part is I'm not saying everyone. I am talking about pieces of shit willing to murder over this. The reaction to this is that it is somehow wrong to call these people pieces of shit. Or to strawman and say I mean all of them.

Originally posted by Surtur
And having things as they are hasn't brought peace either. Next.

"This water is not putting the fire out, so I better put this gasoline on it!" Retard.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
"This water is not putting the fire out, so I better put this gasoline on it!" Retard.

Nope, we've given them 22 years to change. They have failed.

Originally posted by Surtur
Nope, we've given them 22 years to change. They have failed.

"They have been putting water on the fire for 22 years and it has not worked, so gasoline will do the trick," is substantively no different than, "This water is not putting the fire out, so I better put this gasoline on it!"

So that makes you twice as retarded.

Originally posted by Surtur
I just have to disagree. And see here is the problem. People like you always seem to think that if someone disagree's with you it must be because they just are uninformed.

That's hogwash. I'm aware of what is going on. I never said the situation was black and white in terms of the reasons for strife. But yes I WILL say people who are going to go murder others because the city that contains the Israeli parliament was finally named the capital are pieces of shit. Committing murder over that IS black and white. Nobody said people had to do a jig in the streets over this, it is complicated, but when people murder they go to far, and they do not get the excuse of "the strife in the area" to fall back on. Nor can they use the "invaders" excuse.

My view is that it has been over two decades. How much longer are we to wait? Do you have a number?

I just have to disagree. And see here is the problem. People like you always seem to think that if someone disagree's with you it must be because they just are uninformed.

That's hogwash. I'm aware of what is going on. I never said the situation was black and white in terms of the reasons for strife. But yes I WILL say people who are going to go murder others because the city that contains the Israeli parliament was finally named the capital are pieces of shit. This does not mean I am not aware of why this is important to the other side and why it would anger them. Committing murder over that IS black and white. Nobody said people had to do a jig in the streets over this, it is complicated, but when people murder they go to far, and they do not get the excuse of "the strife in the area" to fall back on. Nor can they use the "invaders" excuse.

My view is that it has been over two decades. How much longer are we to wait? Do you have a number?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
"They have been putting water on the fire for 22 years and it has not worked, so gasoline will do the trick," is substantively no different than, "This water is not putting the fire out, so I better put this gasoline on it!"

So that makes you twice as retarded.

Give me a number then.

Yo, surt. How do you justify an act that experts are saying will lead to MORE innocent deaths, on the "he's trying something different" reasoning?

Originally posted by Robtard
Seems you support Trump and this on the "it's something different" reason. That's fine and all for some things but when outside forces like The State Department are warning that even more bloodshed will ensue and we're talking about lives being lost. How do you justify that?

edit: Innocent lives, not just terrorist. In case that's not clear

Originally posted by Surtur
But yes I WILL say people who are going to go murder others because the city that contains the Israeli parliament was finally named the capital are pieces of shit.

That does not make the innocent people murdered in the resulting conflict any less dead, or this strategy an effective way to achieve the stated goal.

If the goal is to achieve peace, or minimally, end conflict, this strategy does neither of those. In fact, it does the exact opposite of what it purports to set out to do.

So tell me, why this is a good plan? Because "doing something different to do something different" is not a good enough justification when people are going to be killed.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yo, surt. How do you justify an act that experts are saying will lead to MORE innocent deaths, on the "he's trying something different" reasoning?

I say that it's the terrorists that will be out there murdering innocent people over this. I say we should not base our decisions on how Islamic terrorists will react. I do not want any innocent people to die. If they do that is on the piece of shit terrorists.

Originally posted by Surtur
I do get what you're saying, but IMO I just think enough is enough. How much longer does the WORLD wait then? The World are not the victims of this conflict, nothing is happening to us. There is no burden on a Brit or an American. The Israelis and the Palestinians are the victims, and we should have the moral integrity to not be bribed by the corrupt Israeli government into choosing sides.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
That does not make the innocent people murdered in the resulting conflict any less dead, or this strategy an effective way to achieve the stated goal.

If the goal is to achieve peace, or minimally, end conflict, this strategy does neither of those. In fact, it does the exact opposite of what it purports to set out to do.

So tell me, why this is a good plan? Because "doing something different to do something different" is not a good enough justification when people are going to be killed.

You keep citing this "doing something different!" thing. That isn't why I agree. Some people might be constantly bringing that up, but not me. If I said it once it is not something I'm using a lot.

I look at the situation, I look at what Congress decided in 1995. I see presidents promised and then backed out. I see 22 years having passed.

And it comes down to Islam. We all know what it means when experts talk about violence occurring. We all know who will be behind it. And yes, these savages will kill innocent people and try to use this as an excuse.

I don't know what else to tell you. I don't want people to die, but I do not want us to let an abhorrent religion dictate the decisions we make.

Originally posted by Firefly218
The World are not the victims of this conflict, nothing is happening to us. There is no burden on a Brit or an American. The Israelis and the Palestinians are the victims, and we should have the moral integrity to not be bribed by the corrupt Israeli government into choosing sides.

Okay man, I get it, I really do, I just want to know if you have a number. It has been 22 years, how many more?

Originally posted by Surtur
I say that it's the terrorists that will be out there murdering innocent people over this. I say we should not base our decisions on how Islamic terrorists will react. I do not want any innocent people to die. If they do that is on the piece of shit terrorists.

"I do not want innocent people to be harmed, but I am going to corner this dangerous animal. I know this will frighten it, but if it hurts anyone, that is its fault, and not mine. I could not have possibly deployed any other strategy that would have resolved this conflict in a way that would have reduced harm to the animal, the bystanders, and myself. Well, at least not one that satisfies my desire to be directly confrontational and needlessly provocative and puts everyone at risk."

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
"I do not want innocent people to be harmed, but I am going to corner this dangerous animal. I know this will frighten it, but if it hurts anyone, that is its fault, and not mine. I could not have possibly deployed any other strategy that would have resolved this conflict in a way that would have reduced harm to the animal, the bystanders, and myself. Well, at least not one that satisfies my desire to be directly confrontational and needlessly provocative and puts everyone at risk."

Lol, the terrorists are savages true, but they aren't animals. Animals react purely on instinct.

Lol if you think Surtur cares about people in the middle-east dying. You're arguing at a wall gentlemen.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol, the terrorists are savages true, but they aren't animals. Animals react purely on instinct.

people under extreme duress tend to act on impulse, pretend-smart guy.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
people under extreme duress tend to act on impulse, pretend-smart guy.

They still aren't animals. Lol but wait, did you want to seriously argue they are like animals? We can go that route if you like.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol if you think Surtur cares about people in the middle-east dying. You're arguing at a wall gentlemen.

This just isn't true. I do not want anyone to die who does not deserve it.

I have explained my position though. I do not want to let Islam dictate our actions.

Trump is a complete ****. People will die, he doesn't care because they are brown, /end thread!

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Trump is a complete ****. People will die, he doesn't care because they are brown, /end thread!

Ah there it is, it took three pages for a "he's racist!". Or did I miss some?

Anyways, it seems I'm the only one who doesn't disagree with what Trump did. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Trump is a complete ****. People will die, he doesn't care because they are brown, /end thread!

pretty much. their lives don't matter to him. and i'm not just talking about the brown people. he put everyone in israel/middle east in harm's way.

Originally posted by Surtur
I look at the situation, I look at what Congress decided in 1995. I see presidents promised and then backed out. I see 22 years having passed.

I do not care what Congress decided in 1995. A bad decision does not become a good decision, because it is 22-years-old. There is a reason no president ever followed through with this. It would be wise to understand why.




Originally posted by Surtur
And it comes down to Islam. We all know what it means when experts talk about violence occurring. We all know who will be behind it. And yes, these savages will kill innocent people and try to use this as an excuse.

And your solution is to give them an excuse for the acts they want to commit anyway? That is not opposing terrorists, that is appeasing them.




Originally posted by Surtur
I don't know what else to tell you. I don't want people to die, but I do not want us to let an abhorrent religion dictate the decisions we make.

News flash: if you choose a course of action, because it is the opposite of what your opponent wants, you are still being controlled; you are not being a rational actor, you are just reacting to what your opponent wants.

Originally posted by Surtur
Anyways, it seems I'm the only one who doesn't disagree with what Trump did. We can agree to disagree I suppose.

I'm always happy with that mate.


Originally posted by Bashar Teg
pretty much. their lives don't matter to him. and i'm not just talking about the brown people. he put everyone in israel in harm's way. Ahh, poor people (everywhere and nothing to do with this thread exclusively) and the American's who will be targeted after this as well as the Israelis, yup, the guy is a nob jockey. No doubt!

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I do not care what Congress decided in 1995. A bad decision does not become a good decision, because it is 22-years-old. There is a reason no president ever followed through with this. It would be wise to understand why.






And your solution is to give them an excuse for the acts they want to commit anyway? That is not opposing terrorists, that is appeasing them.






News flash: if you choose a course of action, because it is the opposite of what your opponent wants, you are still being controlled; you are not being a rational actor, you are just reacting to what your opponent wants.

I just find this utter bullshit lol. This is why I agree with Trump, because of what you said, or rather the fact people have attitudes like yours. Pompous and smug, think they know a lot. Do not give me this "give them a reason" bs. Why are we changing our behavior to appease radical Islamists?

That right there is what bugs me. We should not be making decisions based on what they slimebags are going to do.

Originally posted by Surtur
I say that it's the terrorists that will be out there murdering innocent people over this. I say we should not base our decisions on how Islamic terrorists will react. I do not want any innocent people to die. If they do that is on the piece of shit terrorists.

You justify it by saying "oh, they'll be dying by terrorist". Weird, but do you think that's a moral standpoint considering the knowledge of the acts/deaths happening is known beforehand?

Originally posted by Surtur
I just find this utter bullshit lol. This is why I agree with Trump, because of what you said, or rather the fact people have attitudes like yours. Pompous and smug, think they know a lot. Do not give me this "give them a reason" bs. Why are we changing our behavior to appease radical Islamists?

That right there is what bugs me. We should not be making decisions based on what they slimebags are going to do.

"I support Trump because Dems and Libs hurt my feels and make me feel dumb."

That does not address anything in my post, but alright. At least you admitted what we all knew was true.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
"I support Trump because Dems and Libs hurt my feels and make me feel dumb."

That does not address anything in my post, but alright. At least you admitted what we all knew was true.

It's not about hurt feelings, it's about thinking we need to dictate what we do based on how some Islamic terrorists will react. That is what I find bogus. "Don't provoke them".

i would argue that trumps actions are exactly what terrorist groups have been hoping for.

As noted, Islamic Terrorist groups want the US/West to piss off and alienate Muslims wholesale. It strengthens their cause and fills their coffers and ranks. Trump's move today is a move they agree with, they want war; you're playing into their hands. edit: Or what Bashar said

But hey, blanket support Trump; even in blatantly unwise moves because "Leftist!" upset you with their "pompous and smug" ness

Now insert the "This is why Trump will win in 2020" standard avoidance of the issue at hand remark.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
i would argue that trumps actions are exactly what terrorist groups have been hoping for.

This is the argument I made about Bush and then Obama. The aggressive invade-y actions are just fuel for their messages. It's very easy, at times, for them to paint the US as evil murdering invading assholes....because that accusations are correct.

XKfuS6gfxPY

And so then we what? Let this religion dictate what we do?

^^false dilemma

Originally posted by Surtur
And so then we what? Let this religion dictate what we do? So you can't think for yourself and instead beg other men to tell you what to do. I don't have the slaps in me to get the stupid out of you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you can't think for yourself and instead beg other men to tell you what to do. I don't have the slaps in me to get the stupid out of you.

Lol, you'd be slapped down in a heartbeat if you tried little man. But I am just asking what other people think should happen.

Originally posted by dadudemon
XKfuS6gfxPY That's a great video I must say

Originally posted by Surtur
And so then we what? Let this religion dictate what we do?

Unlike Trump, I don't have at a phone call away experts in any given field to counsel me.

But for starters, I would not employ a move that has historically been seen as a move that would further increase tensions in the region. eg The State Department is saying this will lead to more violence.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol, you'd be slapped down in a heartbeat if you tried little man. But I am just asking what other people think should happen. The only reason this is happening is because of us, you understand that right? We are continuing to make a problem that WE started much worse...

Originally posted by Firefly218
The only reason this is happening is because of us, you understand that right? We are continuing to make a problem that WE started much worse...

I get it, we started it. Lets finish it.

Originally posted by Surtur
And so then we what? Let this religion dictate what we do?

Why not let jewish religion dictate historical borders of modern states while we are at it?

Because that was your point I assume?

Originally posted by Surtur
I get it, we started it. Lets finish it. The problem was created by siding with the Zionist Jews, how does continuing to side with the Zionist Jews "finish" the problem? It prolongs the problem, it worsens the problem, it re-energizes the problem.

There are a million people smarter than you and I who have advised that this will worsen the problem.

So tell me, how do you reconcile "finishing" the problem with Trump's inflammatory policies?

Originally posted by Firefly218
That's a great video I must say

Agreed. Put it into perspective what it would be like to have foreign military occupying American soil.

While I don't agree with the idea of not letting women get an education, I can definitely understand why many of these "freedom fighters" would be so pissed as to take up arms against the US.

tehy jus hayte our freedums

Originally posted by Firefly218
The problem was created by siding with the Zionist Jews, how does continuing to side with the Zionist Jews "finish" the problem? It prolongs the problem, it worsens the problem, it re-energizes the problem.

There are a million people smarter than you and I who have advised that this will worsen the problem.

So tell me, how do you reconcile "finishing" the problem with Trump's inflammatory policies?

So then what do we do. What we are currently doing now is not working.

Originally posted by Surtur
So then what do we do. What we are currently doing now is not working. 1. Stop getting bribed by the corrupt Israeli government

2. Use the same conflict resolution diplomacy that we'd use for any other 2 countries

3. Stand by for humanitarian aid

The only reason this conflict keeps raging on is because Israel is constantly given the upper hand and supported by international powers

Have we covered the pink elephant in the room, yet?


Why DOES the US care so damn much about Israel?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Have we covered the pink elephant in the room, yet?


Why DOES the US care so damn much about Israel? Because Christians want the Jews back in the Promise Land so they can witness the return of the messiah lol, I'm kidding of course but we corrupt

Originally posted by dadudemon
Have we covered the pink elephant in the room, yet?


Why DOES the US care so damn much about Israel?

To get the Jewish vote.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Because Christians want the Jews back in the Promise Land so they can witness the return of the messiah lol, I'm kidding of course but we corrupt

Is this really it? I think you're joking. But that would be terrible.

I asked someone else this and she said it was because we are strong allies and it is important to watch the back of our allies. I understand that but they are not part of NATO.

Originally posted by BackFire
To get the Jewish vote.

(In Seinfeld's voice)

Jewmen!


https://i.imgur.com/3Nw2b5h.gif

Originally posted by dadudemon
Is this really it? I think you're joking. But that would be terrible.

I asked someone else this and she said it was because we are strong allies and it is important to watch the back of our allies. I understand that but they are not part of NATO. I was joking but there is truth to the joke

Originally posted by Firefly218
1. Stop getting bribed by the corrupt Israeli government

2. Use the same conflict resolution diplomacy that we'd use for any other 2 countries

3. Stand by for humanitarian aid

The only reason this conflict keeps raging on is because Israel is constantly given the upper hand and supported by international powers

Out of curiosity, there are two sides here. Which one do you support more?

Originally posted by Surtur
Out of curiosity, there are two sides here. Which one do you support more? The British had no right to give someone else's home to the Jews. The Palestinians lived in all of Israel before the British Mandate, they were forced out of their homes by law and then by violence.

On the other hand, innocent Israelis don't deserve to be targeted.

The only thing that can work is co-existence and integration.

Originally posted by Firefly218
The British had no right to give someone else's home to the Jews. The Palestinians lived in all of Israel before the British Mandate, they were forced out of their homes by law and then by violence.

On the other hand, innocent Israelis don't deserve to be targeted.

The only thing that can work is co-existence and integration.

And how do you expect them to co-exist though? They hate each other. They murder each other. I hear tales of Jewish kids being murdered, and then of the retaliation against the other side.

Originally posted by Surtur
And how do you expect them to co-exist though? They hate each other. They murder each other. I hear tales of Jewish kids being murdered, and then of the retaliation against the other side.

It really sucks, doesn't it?


There's no way around it other than just to forgive and forget and try to coexist. Many are doing it and trying it. Really trying hard. But, obviously, the wounds keep reopening over and over again.

Originally posted by Surtur
And how do you expect them to co-exist though? They hate each other. They murder each other. I hear tales of Jewish kids being murdered, and then of the retaliation against the other side. They already co-exist to a degree. Muslims make up over 35% of Jerusalem's population. There's an entire Muslim Quarter inside of Jerusalem. The Islamic call to prayer rings out across Jerusalem every morning and evening.

Jerusalem is a perfect example of co-existence, it is located on the border of the Palestinian West Bank and Israel.

The only thing prolonging this conflict is Israel's corrupt government trying to curie international favors and Hamas's influence in the Gaza Strip

Originally posted by Surtur
I never said Trump can't be criticized. My point is Trump has a point. This has done nothing, we haven't achieved peace.

Surt, a situation being violent and a situation being turned more violent aren't mutually exclusive.

And the point here is Trump is capitulating to terrorists like Hamas by weakening the position of those who want peace.

The situation was bad, Trump's actions will make the situation worse. That's not doing nothing, that's doing something bad.

Not taking another people's land is "capitulating".

Originally posted by Surtur
So then what do we do. What we are currently doing now is not working.
Stop supporting Israel's oppression of Palestine people.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Surt, a situation being violent and a situation being turned more violent aren't mutually exclusive.

And the point here is Trump is capitulating to terrorists like Hamas by weakening the position of those who want peace.

The situation was bad, Trump's actions will make the situation worse. That's not doing nothing, that's doing something bad.

Not taking another people's land is "capitulating".

I get the situation was bad, but it doesn't seem to be progressing. Was there some major peace deal about to go down? I don't get it. I don't think either of them will ever want to share Jerusalem. At least not a significant amount.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It really sucks, doesn't it?


There's no way around it other than just to forgive and forget and try to coexist. Many are doing it and trying it. Really trying hard. But, obviously, the wounds keep reopening over and over again.

Do you think Trump made the wrong move? I just keep thinking of how the Knesset is in Jerusalem. It seems Israel is being painted as the bad guys here.

Originally posted by Surtur
I don't think either of them will ever want to share Jerusalem. At least not a significant amount. Mother****er they already are sharing Jersulaem

Originally posted by Firefly218
They already co-exist to a degree. Muslims make up over 35% of Jerusalem's population. There's an entire Muslim Quarter inside of Jerusalem. The Islamic call to prayer rings out across Jerusalem every morning and evening.

Jerusalem is a perfect example of co-existence, it is located on the border of the Palestinian West Bank and Israel.

The only thing prolonging this conflict is Israel's corrupt government trying to curie international favors and Hamas's influence in the Gaza Strip

Originally posted by Surtur
Nope, we've given them 22 years to change. They have failed.
No we haven't. We've actively supported Israel as they've continued to pour gasoline on the fire by building settlements.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Mother****er they already are sharing Jersulaem

Well I dunno what to tell you lol. It seems like almost an impossible situation. Doing nothing certainly doesn't help. I dunno, split Jerusalem up? I doubt they'd go for it.

This is why I despise all religion. Because the people can be crazy and obsessive. We are letting imaginary beliefs dictate major events. Wtf.

Originally posted by Surtur
I get the situation was bad, but it doesn't seem to be progressing. Was there some major peace deal about to go down? I don't get it. I don't think either of them will ever want to share Jerusalem. At least not a significant amount.
And so Surt, we're left with two choices

A. leave the situation alone(which is not the same as supporting Israel's right to take Palestine land).

B. Make the situation better.

As Trump wants to intervene, he needs to intervene in a way which would do B.

Instead, he's intervened in a way which would make the situation worse.

If you want to make the situation better, condemn Israel's settlements as we condemn Palestine terrorists. Stop supporting oppression.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
And so Surt, we're left with two choices

A. leave the situation alone(which is not the same as supporting Israel's right to take Palestine land).

B. Make the situation better.

As Trump wants to intervene, he needs to intervene in a way which would do B.

Instead, he's intervened in a way which would make the situation worse.

If you want to make the situation better, condemn Israel's settlements as we condemn Palestine terrorists. Stop supporting oppression.

I truly don't support oppression and I truly don't' want anything bad to happen. I still do have problems with religion dictating things. I guess there is no real solution. I think Trump did this for two reasons. One is that he said he would do it. Trump loves to be able to point to a "win" or to a promise fulfilled. The other is to appeal to his evangelical base. I'm guessing for those people, some of whom voted for him thinking he would do this with Jerusalem, now feel their vote for him was worth it.

I have seen conflicting reports from experts, there is so much information you don't know who to trust. Some say some huge violence will erupt. Others say there will be a very brief period of tension and then things will balance out.

Originally posted by Surtur
I truly don't support oppression and I truly don't' want anything bad to happen. I still do have problems with religion dictating things. I guess there is no real solution.

I just gave you a potential solution:

The "you" is not referring to you, but rather the US government.
Originally posted by Surtur
I think Trump did this for two reasons. One is that he said he would do it. Trump loves to be able to point to a "win" or to a promise fulfilled. The other is to appeal to his evangelical base. I'm guessing for those people, some of whom voted for him thinking he would do this with Jerusalem, now feel their vote for him was worth it.

Why he did it doesn't change what he did was bad. Hence Trump is fully deserving of criticism for his actions. Agreed?

I agree, he still deserves criticism. Maybe my mind is changing about this, I don't want people dead. I just hate that this is how things have to be.

76NytvQAIs0

Thoughts?

Trump's action sends an unequivocal message of "We're solely on Israel's side. Period!" Which is stupid if Trump's trying to position the US as the mediator in the Israel/Palestine conflict. You can't be a mediator, for peace no less, when going into it you're clearly biased against one side. Captain Picard would be mocking Trump openly here.

Israel doesn't even need this acknowledgement Trump is giving them, they're for all intents and purposes a regional superpower, they could (and have, the Six-Day War) take on all their neighbors and win.

I don't want a single terrorist attack coming out of that place then. Not one.

Originally posted by Surtur
I don't want a single terrorist attack coming out of that place then. Not one.

Huh?

I don't want t see any of them committing terrorist attacks over this. They can show some civility. Let us see what happens.

Okay, sport. Maybe write Hamas a formal letter with your demands.

Originally posted by Robtard
Okay, sport. Maybe write Hamas a formal letter with your demands.

Not at all, I'll let them display if they are pieces of shit or not. The next few days will tell us who the savages are.

Hmmm, I suspect the likely coming bloodshed will be spun as a "Look how Trump exposed the savages!" win for Trump. As you're pretty much implying that already, Surt.

I wonder what level of consolation that will be to the loved ones of the innocent victims.

Originally posted by Robtard
Hmmm, I suspect the likely coming bloodshed will be spun as a "Look how Trump exposed the savages!" win for Trump. As you're pretty much implying that already, Surt.

I wonder what level of consolation that will be to the loved ones of the innocent victims.

If a person commits murder over this, are they a piece of shit?

Well, yes. Murder = bad/wrong

Just be sure to tell that to families of the innocent victimes though, if shit goes down as expected. "Trump exposed those murderous pieces of shit savages though".

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, yes. Murder = bad/wrong

Just be sure to tell that to families of the innocent victimes though, if shit goes down as expected. "Trump exposed those murderous pieces of shit savages though".

I'd tell them that their loved ones were killed by savages that follow a terrible ideology.

Fair enough, but don't forget to add: "And it was set off because my President went against all intel telling him that this move has almost zero positives, but many negatives and bloodshed was an expected outcome." To be fair, you know.

Originally posted by Robtard
Fair enough, but don't forget to add: "And it was set off because my President went against all intel telling him that this move has almost zero positives, but many negatives and bloodshed was an expected outcome." To be fair, you know.

Neat, and now is the part I ask what you'd say to Kate Steinle's parents? To be fair, you know.

Yeah it's off topic, oh well.

Something like "liberals ignored laws because of feelings, your daughter is dead now, deal with it."

As long as you'd say something like that, I'll go say that shit to those people.

What I told you before, Surt. The system failed that time; someone should at least lose their job. The guy had previous arrests for drug related crimes, he should not have been set free. He wasn't just an illegal alien, he was an illegal with a serious criminal record.

But your deflection away from the topic since you can't properly respond has been noted.

Originally posted by Robtard
What I told you before, Surt. The system failed that time; someone should at least lose their job. The guy had previous arrests for drug related crimes, he should not have been set free. He wasn't just an illegal alien, he was an illegal with a serious criminal record.

But your deflection away from the topic since you can't properly respond has been noted.

I can properly respond, I would tell the families in the middle east it is not Trumps fault. It is the abhorrent religion that permeates the area.

What would be made known is that the savage islamic terrorists chose to take up arms against them, not Trump.

"The only reason Muslim fundamentalism is a threat to us is because the fundamentals of Islam are a threat to us."

Sam Harris

Originally posted by Surtur
I can properly respond, I would tell the families in the middle east it is not Trumps fault. It is the abhorrent religion that permeates the area.

What would be made known is that the savage islamic terrorists chose to take up arms against them, not Trump.


You will defend Trump no matter what at this point, that much is obvious. There's a reason this act wasn't done by previous presidents and in case you didn't know, they're not all Democrats. There's a reason The State Department issued warnings.

Originally posted by Robtard
You will defend Trump no matter what at this point, that much is obvious. There's a reason this act wasn't done by previous presidents and in case you didn't know, they're not all Democrats. There's a reason The State Department issued warnings.

You just showed your legendary memory is faulty. I won't defend anything he does. But if people are going to try to blame him for Islamic radicals behaving like Islamic radicals? Nope lol. Not on my watch.

I don't necessarily think Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is a bad political move per say. But it's a reminiscent of what Venezuela, Nicaragua and Russia (among others) have been doing by granting their recognition to rogue states in zone of conflict. He is not offering a solution by declaring Jerusalem a capital, but he's certainly pushing the International Community to renew their interest in the topic.

Is it irresponsible? Depends on how much of a responsability yoou think the US has in the current state of afairs with Israel. At this point is not nearly as much as some people would want you to believe.

Originally posted by Surtur
I don't want t see any of them committing terrorist attacks over this. They can show some civility. Let us see what happens.
Let's not act like a group of people should be held responsible for what some individuals in their group do.

@Surtur

Do you recall the war for independence? Why do you think it happened?

Now imagine British leaving US mainland but not before inviting jews to Washington DC and giving them the carte blanche to establish the state of Israel in the heart of the United States, and then Israel keeps on expanding its borders in the aftermath of each confrontation.

Do you think US would allow a new state to come into existence within its borders?

You need to understand what the Israel-Palestine conflict is all about, and UN-backed two-state solution for that region. Problem is that Israel continue to expand and Palestinians continue to suffer with virtually no end in sight to their suffering. Under these circumstances, radicalism can take hold.

Israel-Palestine dispute has nothing to do with Islam but it is about territorial claims and the right of Palestine to exist as a state.

Trump's move is both ill-advised and ill-timed.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@Surtur

Do you recall the war for independence? Why do you think it happened?

Now imagine British leaving US mainland but not before inviting jews to Washington DC and giving them the carte blanche to establish the state of Israel in the heart of the United States, and then Israel keeps on expanding its borders in the aftermath of each confrontation.

Do you think US would allow a new state to come into existence within its borders?

You need to understand what the Israel-Palestine conflict is all about, and UN-backed two-state solution for that region. Problem is that Israel continue to expand and Palestinians continue to suffer with virtually no end in sight to their suffering. Under these circumstances, radicalism can take hold.

Israel-Palestine dispute has nothing to do with Islam but it is about territorial claims and the right of Palestine to exist as a state.

Trump's move is both ill-advised and ill-timed. I think Surt might understand a more personal analogy.

Hey Surt, imagine if your landlord decided to spontaneously give your home to another person while you are still living in it. And that person moves into your home without your permission and with big guns. That person then gathers up all your things and shoves them into a corner (Gaza) and tells you to sleep in the corner. That person then proceeds to claim your living room and take ownership of your PS4.

^^^

Well said. Thank you.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Let's not act like a group of people should be held responsible for what some individuals in their group do.

But we CAN hold Trump responsible for how Islamic radicals react?

Trump you ****. One dead 33 injured already.

An attack happened over this already?

Weird, it's like The State Department and everyone else was correct or something.

Originally posted by Robtard
An attack happened over this already?

Weird, it's like The State Department and everyone else was correct or something. It's more than that, it's what I predicted, fighting in the streets and the Israel war machine turned on the Palestinians.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
It's more than that, it's what I predicted, fighting in the streets and the Israel war machine turned on the Palestinians.

Exactly what Islamic terrorist groups and the Far-Right warhawks in the Israeli government want.

Originally posted by Robtard
Exactly what Islamic terrorist groups and the Far-Right warhawks in the Israeli government want.

I'm no modern day profit like Stop the Hate, but I know the Middle-East this will spread throughout the region, the end game could be aimed anywhere but I guarantee blood and fire like so often before. I also guarantee profit for the usual suspects.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's not about hurt feelings, it's about thinking we need to dictate what we do based on how some Islamic terrorists will react. That is what I find bogus. "Don't provoke them". That's not what this is about. It's about the fact that Israel does not have the right to assert Jerusalem as its capital. It is a multicultural city with many religions, primarily Abrahamic ones living there, and many ethnic groups too. The idea of Israel claiming the capital as its own is essentially an act of war, and generally when someone tries to take someone else's home, that's an act of war regardless of religion or nationality. Trump is essentially fanning the flames of war, for no good reason.


Not all Islamic terrorists are the same. Isis for example is taking the 'jihad' overseas and are a particular type of Islam-driven terrorism; whilst Hamas are terrorists who see themselves as freedom fighters against an invading force, and they are also Muslim. They're much more comparable to the IRA than Al Qaeda.


I think it was Adam who said you were uninformed on this topic and I have to agree, you are showing very little background knowledge on the topic. Previous aims were not to 'stop Islamic terrorism', they were to try to resolve border and territory disputes. Trump, taking one particular side, is going to damage many years of work towards a two-state solution, which is seen as the most positive outcome in the situation and the one that causes the least amount of death and destruction.

Originally posted by Scribble
Trump, taking one particular side, is going to damage many years of work towards a two-state solution, which is seen as the most positive outcome in the situation and the one that causes the least amount of death and destruction.

You know which groups are very against the idea of the two-state solution? (I know you know)

Answer: Islamic terrorist groups and the Far-Right warhawks in the Israeli government

Originally posted by Surtur
But we CAN hold Trump responsible for how Islamic radicals react?
Yes, because Trump's actions have directly caused that. On the other hand, a child who dies of starvation in palestine has done nothing to provoke either leader and bears no responsibility for the actions of terrorists.

Originally posted by Robtard
You know which groups are very against the idea of the two-state solution? (I know you know)

Answer: Islamic terrorist groups and the Far-Right warhawks in the Israeli government I'm not sure if Surtur knows enough about the situation to know about the terrorist activities many in the Israeli government and military support and enact. He just hears 'Islam' and sees red from what I can tell. Which is a shame, because the topic of Israel / Palestine is a massively complex one and Hamas are just one tiny part of it. But that's all he's focusing on.


I may as well put forward my general view on the topic: I believe Israel has a right to exist, but I fervently disagree with Zionism (just as I disagree with radical Islam and Christian extremism). I think the implementation of the state of Israel was sloppily handled right from the outset, but I still believe a two-state solution is possible, despite the continuing extremism and violence that sects on both sides continue to carry out. The news of Trump's endorsement of Jerusalem as Israel's capital is, as such, a huge blow to the efforts of many other people and groups to bring about a fair solution (and thus peace), and personally I consider it one of the most irresponsible things he has done as president thus far.

Can't say I disagree except (imo) labeling what Trump did here as "irresponsible" is wrong, it's disastrous. There's a reason why past US presidents have not done this and experts of the region say "but why?". It puts the US in a position where it can no longer play mediator, it puts everyone not an Israeli in Jerusalem on notice, it specifically shits on the Palestinians and they've been shit on for a long time and it serves as a rallying cry for Islamic extremist.

I mean, what's the positives here except to give Israel a 'feel-good' feeling? They certainty don't need it from a military or diplomatic standpoint, they already hold all those advantages. I've yet to see a reason from Trumpers other than "it was a promise Trump made", which is just insane when you factor in the negatives.

Edit: I'm actually curious if Ivanka/Jared had a hand in this, whispering in Trump's ear. Kushner's an orthodox Jew and likely an "Israel is for the Jews" proponent. Not that it matters, it was Trump's call in the end

"truwmp is just fulfilling his promises"

https://972mag.com/israeli-army-kills-palestinian-man-in-gaza-border-clashes/131353/

For God's sake.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
"truwmp is just fulfilling his promises"

Do also wonder what the Alt-Right squad thinks of this, as it's clearly an "America holds Israel above others first" gesture and those Alt-Right goons certainly do not like Jews one bit.

Remember Christopher Cantwell (aka Cying Nazi Snowflake)? He was very against Trump having a Jewish son-in-law. He was part of the "Jews will not replace us!" march, iirc.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
https://972mag.com/israeli-army-kills-palestinian-man-in-gaza-border-clashes/131353/

For God's sake.

Meh, I'm sure those children deserved it somehow.

But this is just the beginning. Maybe Trump's idea of "bringing peace to the Middle-East" is having US funded Israel kill every non-Jew/Israeli and then there will be peace I guess?

Originally posted by Robtard
Edit: I'm actually curious if Ivanka/Jared had a hand in this, whispering in Trump's ear. Kushner's an orthodox Jew and likely an "Israel is for the Jews" proponent. Not that it matters, it was Trump's call in the end

From what I've heard, Jared has been pushing for this, yes. Kushner was just caught being one of the heads of an organisation that was funding illegal Isreali settlements afterall. But mostly the one pushing for this was Trump's top donor, Sheldon Adelson. He's been pushing Trump to do this for months and has constantly been complaining that Trump isn't doing this.

So really, while it was Trump's call ultimately, in reality its likely that the only reason hes doing this is to satisfy his donors. He announced his plans for this privately to his donors a week ago, before anyone else heard about it. All his cabinet have been telling him not to do this but he's bought and paid for in complete contrast to his campaign promises. Sheldon Adelson is the one you want to look to as the impetus for this imo. Trump himself has evidenced that he knows very little about any of this and is just following orders.

Originally posted by Robtard
Do also wonder what the Alt-Right squad thinks of this, as it's clearly an "America holds Israel above others first" gesture and those Alt-Right goons certainly do not like Jews one bit.

Remember Christopher Cantwell (aka Cying Nazi Snowflake)? He was very against Trump having a Jewish son-in-law. He was part of the "Jews will not replace us!" march, iirc. Well I'm reading up on the Israeli-Palestian conflict because I don't know much about it, and it seems to be that the Israelis essentially support a kind religious fundamentalism, and a form of governing that would treat non-Jewish people as second class citizens. How on Earth is this something the US, the supposed land of the free and what not, throw their full support behind?

And how is that Islam is the only religion that doesn't get a free pass on this?

It also seems apparent to be that this has very little to do with radical Islamic terrorism, aside from an issue they can band wagon themselves onto to propagate anti-west sentiments and radicalise people. Which of course, Trump is feeding into.

What a farce.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well I'm reading up on the Israeli-Palestian conflict because I don't know much about it, and it seems to be that the Israelis essentially support a kind religious fundamentalism, and a form of governing that would treat non-Jewish people as second class citizens. How on Earth is this something the US, the supposed land of the free and what not, throw their full support behind?

And how is that Islam is the only religion that doesn't get a free pass on this?

I spent 11 days in Israel, was fortunate enough to see several cities/towns going up and down the country, it's rather beautiful and the historical aspects are amazing.

But there is absolutely a 'you're-not-equal-to-us' feeling in regards to non-Jews there; mostly focused against Arabs/Muslims. They're viewed similar in a fashion as many in the US view Mexican immigrants, good for cheap labor and jobs deemed menial, but f--k you if you want a piece of the pie. The Hasidic Jews are the worst offenders of this, even moderate Jews are held in contempt by them.

Have we seen any major violence yet?

Originally posted by Surtur
Have we seen any major violence yet?

Define major here?

But just you wait, this isn't going to start getting better any time soon, if ever now.

Originally posted by Nephthys
From what I've heard, Jared has been pushing for this, yes. Kushner was just caught being one of the heads of an organisation that was funding illegal Isreali settlements afterall. But mostly the one pushing for this was Trump's top donor, Sheldon Adelson. He's been pushing Trump to do this for months and has constantly been complaining that Trump isn't doing this.

So really, while it was Trump's call ultimately, in reality its likely that the only reason hes doing this is to satisfy his donors. He announced his plans for this privately to his donors a week ago, before anyone else heard about it. All his cabinet have been telling him not to do this but he's bought and paid for in complete contrast to his campaign promises. Sheldon Adelson is the one you want to look to as the impetus for this imo. Trump himself has evidenced that he knows very little about any of this and is just following orders.

Actually, the Adelson connection makes perfect sense. What a shitshow.

Originally posted by Robtard
Define major here?

But just you wait, this isn't going to start getting better any time soon, if ever now.

Things becoming drastically worse than before.

And if within the next month or so we do not see a drastic increase in violence, what then?

So you're setting up special rules? We've already had violence (just as The State Department warned it would happen) break out over this specifically, what else do you want/need as proof?

If it's more blood, you'll likely get it as I doubt either side is backing down over this.

At the UN today The US ambassador to The UN said 'Israel will not be bullied by the UN'

If anyone can name 2 or 3 countries which have violated more UN resolutions than Israel let me know.

I don't get how since before any of us here were born Israel were allowed to keep on just going into other peoples borders respected by everyone, drawn up, made official, wittnessed by all the countries at the UN... just keep disrespecting those borders and keep building and taking over - how are people not going to get ****ing pissed off at that - I'm not against anyone - but if you agree to stuff - agree to it - don't agree to things and then do what you like anyway and then be like totally - completely shocked when people aren't 100% delighted with you.

This settlement thing honestly - settling people who say oh I'm jewish therefore forget where I was born and raised I can be Israeli yeah I'm totally going there and settling on an illegal land grab, settlement, Grant to settle? Bingo! - oh someone else was living there - they had a village and a town there - really? - it all looks real new - smh - Theres a story about a girl, its winter and she asks a man for shelter the man lets her enter and takes everything she has and sends her out, a passer by stops at the house and says but you have a house she has nothing - give her back her shoes - its cold outside - the man says: but my feet are cold - my house has no heat - the passer by says - but those shoes, they are two sizes too small for you friend - for the love of god, Israel- those palestinians - give them back everything you took from them - get out of their waters - they can't even use their beaches because you have an illegal occupation going on there - but israeli fishing vessels are okay to come and go as they please in palestines waters = and palestine can't even access international waters through their own waterfront = its the worlds largest prison camp and they just keep taking more and more of it = and acting surprised when passers by stop by and say = that is not cool = you don't even need to do all that = The reason you're taking this land more and more of it is so you can have more and more land to give to people who aren't israeli = weren't even born within 5 thousand miles of the place = but are jewish so they automatically have more #privilege to live there than people actually born there = its ****ing sick is what it is = and surtur read up on the subject I wasn't going to say anything but for the love of god = what was said to The UN by the US = AND then coming back to see this ignorance still going = omfg = Surtur your opening post = the reason I didn't answer it when you posted it is = some things if you have to explain them... (I've been there, done that couple of years ago - Eventually We, I and a few others said to this one guy = read a book = seriously = Read a book = and then we said = create a reading list = we could advise you but its best for you to create your own reading list = with books from both sides = read books by jewish / israeli authors on the history / subject / on jewish history = so you know where they've been = where they are = read books from palestinian authors = or from western authors who have been to palestine and israel = leave the tv the news just leave it = and get to know the subject = then come back with your own findings = thats what we said to him = did he even try to do a little of that = no = for me I was like ugh not this again and left it for others to have a go)

Some questions you have to find the answers yourself

It took me a little over ten years to fully understand the subject = along the way I had a conversation with one other passer by we were talking about some event this would have been in the 60s or something where about 150 to 300 men were taken and told to report to a school in palestine territory and shot to death in broad daylight = that book we were talking about has got to be one of the heaviest books I've ever read = and it exists because some one could not understand why and how something like this was not reported = like zero coverage = that was when I stopped reading on the subject. If you're pro israeli look I'm not against israel. It is true that israel needs to defend itself. It is also true that there have been people acting in the name of Israel who have at times gone TOO FAR (way too far) in getting even = Newtons Third Law.

I think the root cause of a lot of ignorance is what they teach people at school in history

In our history lessons we did 3 countries from 3 different continents

Excluding the two world wars we covered 4 other wars on two different continents

I remember when I looked at the history syllabus for one country I was in = smh

For my own reading I picked a latin american country it gave me a solid background on the region at the age of 16.

Btw Bill Clinton was a dick over Bosnia = he screwed them over with the no fly zone

Originally posted by shiv
At the UN today The US ambassador to The UN said 'Israel will not be bullied by the UN'

If anyone can name 2 or 3 countries which have violated more UN resolutions than Israel let me know.

I don't get how since before any of us here were born Israel were allowed to keep on just going into other peoples borders respected by everyone, drawn up, made official, wittnessed by all the countries at the UN... just keep disrespecting those borders and keep building and taking over - how are people not going to get ****ing pissed off at that - I'm not against anyone - but if you agree to stuff - agree to it - don't agree to things and then do what you like anyway and then be like totally - completely shocked when people aren't 100% delighted with you.

This settlement thing honestly - settling people who say oh I'm jewish therefore forget where I was born and raised I can be Israeli yeah I'm totally going there and settling on an illegal land grab, settlement, Grant to settle? Bingo! - oh someone else was living there - they had a village and a town there - really? - it all looks real new - smh - Theres a story about a girl, its winter and she asks a man for shelter the man lets her enter and takes everything she has and sends her out, a passer by stops at the house and says but you have a house she has nothing - give her back her shoes - its cold outside - the man says: but my feet are cold - my house has no heat - the passer by says - but those shoes, they are two sizes too small for you friend - for the love of god, Israel- those palestinians - give them back everything you took from them - get out of their waters - they can't even use their beaches because you have an illegal occupation going on there - but israeli fishing vessels are okay to come and go as they please in palestines waters = and palestine can't even access international waters through their own waterfront = its the worlds largest prison camp and they just keep taking more and more of it = and acting surprised when passers by stop by and say = that is not cool = you don't even need to do all that = The reason you're taking this land more and more of it is so you can have more and more land to give to people who aren't israeli = weren't even born within 5 thousand miles of the place = but are jewish so they automatically have more #privilege to live there than people actually born there = its ****ing sick is what it is = and surtur read up on the subject I wasn't going to say anything but for the love of god = what was said to The UN by the US = AND then coming back to see this ignorance still going = omfg = Surtur your opening post = the reason I didn't answer it when you posted it is = some things if you have to explain them... (I've been there, done that couple of years ago - Eventually We, I and a few others said to this one guy = read a book = seriously = Read a book = and then we said = create a reading list = we could advise you but its best for you to create your own reading list = with books from both sides = read books by jewish / israeli authors on the history / subject / on jewish history = so you know where they've been = where they are = read books from palestinian authors = or from western authors who have been to palestine and israel = leave the tv the news just leave it = and get to know the subject = then come back with your own findings = thats what we said to him = did he even try to do a little of that = no = for me I was like ugh not this again and left it for others to have a go)

Some questions you have to find the answers yourself

It took me a little over ten years to fully understand the subject = along the way I had a conversation with one other passer by we were talking about some event this would have been in the 60s or something where about 150 to 300 men were taken and told to report to a school in palestine territory and shot to death in broad daylight = that book we were talking about has got to be one of the heaviest books I've ever read = and it exists because some one could not understand why and how something like this was not reported = like zero coverage = that was when I stopped reading on the subject. If you're pro israeli look I'm not against israel. It is true that israel needs to defend itself. It is also true that there have been people acting in the name of Israel who have at times gone TOO FAR (way too far) in getting even = Newtons Third Law.

I think the root cause of a lot of ignorance is what they teach people at school in history

In our history lessons we did 3 countries from 3 different continents

Excluding the two world wars we covered 4 other wars on two different continents

I remember when I looked at the history syllabus for one country I was in = smh

For my own reading I picked a latin american country it gave me a solid background on the region at the age of 16.

Btw Bill Clinton was a dick over Bosnia = he screwed them over with the no fly zone I have Egyptian friends born after Israel kicked the Arab worlds butt, who didn't even realise they had done it.

Originally posted by Surtur
And if within the next month or so we do not see a drastic increase in violence, what then? It still wouldn't make his assertion of Jerusalem being Israel's capital any more just or correct. You didn't even bother reading my post, did you? Either that or you just conveniently ignored it.

Originally posted by Scribble
It still wouldn't make his assertion of Jerusalem being Israel's capital any more just or correct. You didn't even bother reading my post, did you? Either that or you just conveniently ignored it.

I didn't ignore it. This is 8 pages long, I will go back and see which comment you mean.

Originally posted by Scribble
That's not what this is about. It's about the fact that Israel does not have the right to assert Jerusalem as its capital. It is a multicultural city with many religions, primarily Abrahamic ones living there, and many ethnic groups too. The idea of Israel claiming the capital as its own is essentially an act of war, and generally when someone tries to take someone else's home, that's an act of war regardless of religion or nationality. Trump is essentially fanning the flames of war, for no good reason.

But is the Israeli parliament not located in Jerusalem?




I agree not all terrorists are the same, there are different groups. But they are all utterly horrible people if they go out and harm and murder other people over this. That to me can not be debated. There is no valid excuse for this.



Adam likes to say a lot of things that aren't true. I recognize the history, but it seems the fear that we have in the here and now is the backlash because terrorists are going to get violent.

In the past there were reasons not to do this. But they were not hidden. Presidents promised anyways and then backed out. Clinton. Bush. Obama. None of these folk were informed of the situation? Of course we know better, they were. But some of them said repeatedly they would do this anyways.

To make things really interesting we should move the U.N to Jerusalem as well.

The problem I see here is the standard with Trump. Lower the bar so very low he can't help but succeed lol. Some in the media seemed almost giddy over potential violence over this, but we saw people acting like this was gonna be Armageddon.

The stuff going down seems innocuous when compared to Armageddon. Why set the bar so low?

https://i.imgur.com/IQSK4Qy.gif