Wonder Woman vs. Faora

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Stigma
Setting: Smallville

Instead of fighting MoS Superman, Faora takes on Diana.


Who wins?

juggerman
Are we assuming Faora is just as strong as Superman was in JL?

Stigma
Not sure tbh.

There is good case to be made that JL Superman is stronger than his MoS self.

Faora seemed to be comparable to MoS Superman.

Slowpoke
I think Faora is stronger and quicker, Wonder Woman got the weapon advantage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbUsZuiFXO4

I even made a video mashup for it.

Silent Master
What makes you think Faora is quicker?

quanchi112
WW wins.

Stigma
Originally posted by Silent Master
What makes you think Faora is quicker?
Well she can easily keep up with Superman speed-wise. Not sure how much faster (if any) Supes became in JL.

On the other hand, Diana is slower than Supes.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Stigma
Well she can easily keep up with Superman speed-wise. Not sure how much faster (if any) Supes became in JL.

On the other hand, Diana is slower than Supes.

She can keep up with MOS era Superman. None of her speed feats from the movie even come close to Wonder Woman's.

Stigma
Yes, she can match MoS Superman speed-wise. As I said, I am not sure if he is slower than his JL self.

TBH his feat of taking Zod to the orbit, for instance, is easily on pair with similar one in BvS and dodging Steppenwolf casually in JL (who was a match for WW, who, in turn, is a legit bullet timer).

Given that, I think Superman's speed is rather consistent.

From that we can only speculate.

Silent Master
Flying Zod into space is a flying feat, otherwise known as travel speed.

If you want me to believe she is faster than Wonder Woman in combat super speed then show me a scene of her using combat super speed that is better than Wonder Woman's.

Stigma
Well, she is fighting Clark in Smallvlle. I believe that would count as a speed feat.

Also, are you saying that Kryptonains do not fight at super speed?

And I did not claim she is faster. I am wondering myself.

Silent Master
I don't recall any scenes where she fought with greater than Wonder Woman level super speed, could you post them?

Stigma
Sure, I can post scene from their fight with Supes. But again, what are you saying? Are you going to determine visually if Superman vs Faora fight is faster than Diana fights from her film?

I see it as a flawed approach. Supes is clearly a speedster above Diana. And he was matched by Zod and Faora, both Kryptonians who possess the same power set.

Unless you want to claim that they are fighting in normal/perceivable speed as we the viewers can track it? Super speed portayal varies in movies, but we can infer logically what happens.

TBH, I think It stands to reason they are in the same category speed-wise.

Silent Master
If there are no indicators that they are fighting at super speed, then they are not fighting at super speed.

Stigma
Originally posted by Silent Master
If there are no indicators that they are fighting at super speed, then they are not fighting at super speed.
I can see where you are coming from, but to me it seems that this approach has a weakness.


In any case, I am not even making a case for Faora. I am intereted in comparison of their respective strenght and combat skill/training

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Stigma
I can see where you are coming from, but to me it seems that this approach has a weakness.


In any case, I am not even making a case for Faora. I am intereted in comparison of their respective strenght and combat skill/training

Like I've said, Faora is quicker and stronger, Wonder Woman has the better weapon advantage.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Slowpoke
Like I've said, Faora is quicker and stronger, Wonder Woman has the better weapon advantage.

Where is your proof that she is quicker?

Slowpoke
Wonder Woman is as fast as Steppenwolf, Steppenwolf is much much slower than Superman, and Faora is as fast as Superman. She also speed blitz soldiers in seconds.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Slowpoke
Wonder Woman is as fast as Steppenwolf, Steppenwolf is much much slower than Superman, and Faora is as fast as Superman. She also speed blitz soldiers in seconds.

That is some amazingly shitty ABC logic. If you want to claim she is faster than Wonder Woman, actually post a feat where she is using speed above that of Wonder Woman.

Slowpoke
She is a able to match the speed of Superman when Wonder Woman obviously couldn't do so. Superman dodged Steppenwolf's attack with ease.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Slowpoke
She is a able to match the speed of Superman when Wonder Woman obviously couldn't do so.

Matching Superman would only count if he was actually using above Wonder Woman level super speed at the time. So post some proof.

Slowpoke
He IS using his full power when fighting Faora but couldn't outspeed her. Actually watch his fight against Steppenwolf he was obviously toying with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpxlqTx7DTg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkK7_FsJE7Q

Simply compare their fights against ordinary human, Faora speedblitz fully armed soldiers much quicker than Wonder Woman against criminals.

Surtur
Not all Kryptonians are the same. I think Superman is realizing his full power, when he fought Faora he really hadn't yet.

I would not grant Faora the same speed as Superman. He showed a vast improvement in speed. I think she'd need to do the same. The speed she showed was not as good as what Supes later showed.

I understand the rationality of "they are the same race with the same powers" but in reality Superman does tend to outshine other Kryptonians.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Slowpoke
He IS using his full power when fighting Faora but couldn't outspeed her. Actually watch his fight against Steppenwolf he was obviously toying with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpxlqTx7DTg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkK7_FsJE7Q

Simply compare their fights against ordinary human, Faora speedblitz fully armed soldiers much quicker than Wonder Woman against criminals.

Judging by those clips all your proving is it Superman got faster in JL and that Wonder Woman is actually faster than Faora.

Slowpoke
That's quite dumb, the video got ordinary humans as proof to show the speed gap.

Superman didn't get much stronger or faster, he also wasn't even using his full speed against Steppenwolf.

Surtur
Originally posted by Slowpoke
That's quite dumb, the video got ordinary humans as proof to show the speed gap.

Superman didn't get much stronger or faster, he also wasn't even using his full speed against Steppenwolf.

I think it is just Superman got stronger. Faora was never at full power anyways.

It's also a part of Supermans character that he holds back, etc. and sometimes in situations he taps into more of his power.

Silent Master
We have seen Wonder Woman bullet time, the clip you just posted for Faora does not show bullet-time movement.

Thank you for posting proof that she isn't as fast as Wonder Woman.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Surtur
Not all Kryptonians are the same. I think Superman is realizing his full power, when he fought Faora he really hadn't yet.

I would not grant Faora the same speed as Superman. He showed a vast improvement in speed. I think she'd need to do the same. The speed she showed was not as good as what Supes later showed.

I understand the rationality of "they are the same race with the same powers" but in reality Superman does tend to outshine other Kryptonians.

Faora is as quick as Superman in MoS. Superman was on Earth for 30 years and she was like less than 2-3 days. Sure Superman got stronger overtime to master his strength and fighting skill, but his power came from the yellow sun and Earth's gravity. There is no proof of a huge boost.

Surtur
Faora has the blur speed thing going for her. It's very tame speedster stuff compared to bullet timing.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Silent Master
We have seen Wonder Woman bullet time, the clip you just posted for Faora does not show bullet-time movement.

Thank you for posting proof that she isn't as fast as Wonder Woman.

And Faora speed blitzed the soldiers when Wonder Woman couldn't do it that fast when a BOMB is about to explode. Do you even get it? Or just standing on the little ground here?

Bullet time is only a way to show the character is fast. Unless you are saying the criminals are as fast as bullets.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Surtur
I think it is just Superman got stronger. Faora was never at full power anyways.

It's also a part of Supermans character that he holds back, etc. and sometimes in situations he taps into more of his power.

Yeah but we are NOT comparing Superman VS Faora, it's Wonder Woman VS Faora, using Superman and ordinary humans as proof, Faroa is obviously stronger+quicker.

Surtur
Originally posted by Slowpoke
Yeah but we are NOT comparing Superman VS Faora, it's Wonder Woman VS Faora, using Superman and ordinary humans as proof, Faroa is obviously stronger+quicker.

What I am saying is all we can do is use what Faora herself did. Supermans feats are Supermans feats. Superman when he fought her was just starting out. He had not been a super hero prior to that. It's why the guy smashed up an entire city in the fight, he was a newb.

There is no reason to grant her a massive upgrade in speed because an opponent she fought got more powerful later on.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Surtur
Faora has the blur speed thing going for her. It's very tame speedster stuff compared to bullet timing.

Bullet timing is a method to show how fast they are, you don't see them fight going on forever using that timing because it's going to affect the movie.

Wonder Woman was able to block bullet but couldn't speed blitz the criminals as fast as Faora. That's pretty much hard proof.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Surtur
What I am saying is all we can do is use what Faora herself did. Supermans feats are Supermans feats. Superman when he fought her was just starting out. He had not been a super hero prior to that. It's why the guy smashed up an entire city in the fight, he was a newb.

There is no reason to grant her a massive upgrade in speed because an opponent she fought got more powerful later on.
Superman is the measuring stick here.

Superman had been mastering his skills over the years to help others and not cause trouble, being a Superhero improves his skill in fights, it's not like his basic feats would get a huge boost.

Surtur
Originally posted by Slowpoke
Bullet timing is a method to show how fast they are, you don't see them fight going on forever using that timing because it's going to affect the movie.

Wonder Woman was able to block bullet but couldn't speed blitz the criminals as fast as Faora. That's pretty much hard proof.

It's the reaction time that it comes down to. The bullet block is superior than blitzing a normal human.

Stigma
Slowpoke is saying that we need to use Superman and soldiers as a yardstick.

The problem is if MoS Superman is slower than JL Superman. TBH I am not sure of that at all.

Surtur
Originally posted by Slowpoke
Superman is the measuring stick here.

Superman had been mastering his skills over the years to help others and not cause trouble, being a Superhero improves his skill in fights, it's not like his basic feats would get a huge boost.

One could argue the longer he is exposed to the sun the more powerful he gets. Or that he just hasn't full unlocked his powers. Either way Faora should not be granted his feats or measured by him. He got way too much of a boost to grant her that.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Surtur
It's the reaction time that it comes down to. The bullet block is superior than blitzing a normal human.

No, bullet block is only a way to show the character is fast, there is a bomb there, Wonder Woman would only use her full speed to fight the criminals.

Tell me WHY didn't Wonder Woman speed blitz them?

Stigma
MoS Superman is still a speedster, though. Even in combat speed iirc his maneuvers and punches he traded wiith Zod caused sonic booms, no?

But tbh I think the speed difference will not decide it here. Both of these gals are close in that department.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Surtur
One could argue the longer he is exposed to the sun the more powerful he gets. Or that he just hasn't full unlocked his powers. Either way Faora should not be granted his feats or measured by him. He got way too much of a boost to grant her that.

Same thing with Faora, Zod was even able to master the heat vision shortly, by that logic we could say Faora, by the end of MoS has become even stronger than she was during the fight against Superman.

Superman is using full speed against Faora in the fight, tell me why shouldn't she be given with the feats?

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Stigma
Slowpoke is saying that we need to use Superman and soldiers as a yardstick.

The problem is if MoS Superman is slower than JL Superman. TBH I am not sure of that at all.

Proof? More like the other guys are slower than the Kryptonians.

Stigma
Originally posted by Slowpoke
Proof? More like the other guys are slower than the Kryptonians.
Well, pretty much everyone is slower than Kryptonains. I don't think we disagree here?

What I am saying is that I am not sure if Superman got significantly faster than his MoS self (if at all).

Silent Master
Originally posted by Surtur
Not all Kryptonians are the same. I think Superman is realizing his full power, when he fought Faora he really hadn't yet.

I would not grant Faora the same speed as Superman. He showed a vast improvement in speed. I think she'd need to do the same. The speed she showed was not as good as what Supes later showed.

I understand the rationality of "they are the same race with the same powers" but in reality Superman does tend to outshine other Kryptonians.

Exactly he's trying to use JL Superman's best speed as proof of mos Superman's speed and then claim that he was using that speed in his fight with Faora despite the movie not showing it.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Silent Master
Exactly he's trying to use JL Superman's best speed as proof of mos Superman's speed and then claim that he was using that speed in his fight with Faora despite the movie not showing it.

Superman was toying with Steppenwolf and had to use full strength against Faora/Namek and Zod. He could only be slower in the fight against Steppenwolf.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Stigma
Well, pretty much everyone is slower than Kryptonains. I don't think we disagree here?

What I am saying is that I am not sure if Superman got significantly faster than his MoS self (if at all).

So it's like I've said, Faora is quicker and stronger here.

If you think he's much faster you got to give proof.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Slowpoke
Superman was toying with Steppenwolf and had to use full strength against Faora/Namek and Zod. He could only be slower in the fight against Steppenwolf.

Lol!!!

Slowpoke
Superman is toying with Steppenwolf obviously. In the MoS fights he was much more serious.

Wonder Woman also got a situation that she got to use her full speed otherwise the bomb would kill a lot of ppl. She wasn't as fast as Faora and she was against some criminals than fully armed soldiers.

Silent Master
Lol!!

Silent Master
Again, we have seen Wonder Woman bullet time. Post feats of Faora using that level of super speed.

Slowpoke
Bullet time is only to show the character is fast, not a real feat.

Wonder Woman didn't speedblitz the criminals right after the bullet time, THIS is the real proof of how fast she could be.

It's very pathetic to stand on that one little straw that couldn't even support your claim.

Slowpoke
By that logic Steppenwolf and Doomsday didn't show bullet time so they are slower? See how weak the statement is?

Silent Master
In other words you can't post a feat that matches or exceeds Wonder Woman's bullet timing.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Silent Master
In other words you can't post a feat that matches or exceeds Wonder Woman's bullet timing.

Stop right here.

So Steppenwolf and Doomsday did'n't show such bullet timing, does it make them slower? Then why didn't Wonder Woman outspeed them?

There was a bomb there, why didn't Wonder Woman speedblitz the criminals?

You are standing on the little straw which doesn't even make sense now.

Silent Master
You still haven't posted a feat for Faora that's better than Wonder Woman that bullet timing.

Slowpoke
So now it's simply repeating the same time rather than face the question again, good.

Slowpoke
Faora has shown her speed against normal humans, faster than Wonder Woman. That's one.


Was able to match the speed of Superman, and Superman>Steppenwolf=Wonder Woman. That's two. Direct comparison

Using Bullet timing is a very very weak statement here. Unless someone here thinks Doomsday and Steppenwolf isn't fast enough because they got no bullet timing.

Silent Master
Faora showed below bullet time speed when fighting those humans. Why you think that proves she's faster than Wonder Woman who is a confirmed bullet timer is beyond any rational thinking human being.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Silent Master
Faora showed below bullet time speed when fighting those humans. Why you think that proves she's faster than Wonder Woman who is a confirmed bullet timer is beyond any rational thinking human being.

Wonder Woman showed even slower timing than her fighting the criminals, why didn't she speedblitz them when there was a bomb about to explode?

Doomsday and Steppenwolf didn't have bullet timer, are they slower? Then why didn't Wonder Woman outspeed them?

The more you try to grab this little straw, the worse it makes you look like.

Silent Master
Wonder Woman has multiple examples of bullet timing, Faora has zero such feats on that level.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Silent Master
Wonder Woman has multiple examples of bullet timing, Faora has zero such feats on that level.

AND she couldn't speedblitz the criminals, EXPLAIN that. You think she wants the bomb to explode? Even when she was trying to toss the bomb it didn't work like bullet timer. So she didn't use her full strength?

Steppenwolf and Doomsday didn't have such bullet timing, does it make them slower than Wonder Woman? Then WHY didn't Wonder Woman speedblitz them?

Faora was able to keep the speed with Superman and Superman>>>Steppenwolf, who is as fast as Wonder Woman. That's another direct comparison.

Stop repeating the same thing and answer these questions, it only makes you look worse and worse and worse.

Silent Master
It's either PIS for those criminals had super speed. Take your pick.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Silent Master
It's either PIS for those criminals had super speed. Take your pick.

PIS is not an excuse here, Bullet timing is not used to show exactly how fast the character is, only that he/she is faster than a bullet. Doomsday and Steppenwolf don't have such "feat" and does it make them slower?

We know Superman is much quicker than bullets, quicker than Wonder Woman and Faora is able to keep the speed up with him, that is also enough to show Faora is quicker.

Silent Master
Wonder Woman has multiple examples of super speed, so either 1) she didn't use it against the criminals or 2) the criminals also had super speed.

If you want to claim Faora is faster than Wonder Woman then you actually have to show feats that are better than Wonder Woman's.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by Silent Master
Wonder Woman has multiple examples of super speed, so either 1) she didn't use it against the criminals or 2) the criminals also had super speed.

If you want to claim Faora is faster than Wonder Woman then you actually have to show feats that are better than Wonder Woman's.

And Doomsday+Steppenwolf both don't have such feat, does it make them slower? Same with Faora. Faora could match the speed of Superman, who is 100% proven to be faster than Wonder Woman and far above the bullet timing requirement, that pretty settled it. Their fights against ordinary ppl also proved Faora is quicker.

Silent Master
The fact that you're unable to provide any feats for Faora has been noted.

Slowpoke
Again trying to grab the straw only makes you look worse.

Silent Master
Basing my opinion on what the movies actually show isn't grabbing straw.

So go ahead, post an actual feat where Faora is shown using superspeed above the level that we've seen Wonder Woman operate at.

h1a8
This is a good fight IMO. WW has weapons which evens the fight out. Both have comparable speed (unless you are using the logic that Faora speed is equivalent to Clark's). WW could always cross her bracelets for defense and do some massive hacking or stabbing with the sword. Faora doesn't have flight like Clark or HV and breath. She's limited to dashing and h2h.

TGATES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mqF63Ufj_4

WW super speed 1:39

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42B7CBYLs0M&t=195s

WW super speed 3:12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYW8newAuI

WW superspeed/bullet timing.

juggerman
Wonder Woman

Surtur
I say go with feats. Faora reacted and outsped a Superman who wasn't showing any real speed at the time.

And also, how come the fact that the method used to bring him back possibly brought him back a bit amped hasn't been considered?

TGATES
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111241908/6061218-8235119479-eNwbE.gif
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111273287/5902605-2098588690-58940.gif

^Not only can wonder woman speed blitz, but she has the reaction time to block bullets at that speed.

https://lilgripes.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/tumblr_o9ytz41wab1qdhps7o3_r1_500.gif

^Strength

TethAdamTheRock
Faora is everything Wonder Woman is but better

quanchi112
Nah, WW would break her. Better gear, better warrior, better feats.

emporerpants
You can't really compare Superman in JL to Superman in MOS. Supes very clearly got stronger in every way. MOS itself directly said that he will get stronger as he keeps testing his limits. It is very obvious that Superman in JL is much stronger, faster, more durable, etc., than Superman in MOS. Faora does not get to benefit from Superman's speed feats in JL. She just doesn't. In this fight she only gets to use speed feats that were shown in MOS as she fought an unsure Supes who really was just getting used to actually using his powers.

Silent Master
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Faora is everything Wonder Woman is but better

You think Faora is more skilled?

LOL!!!!!! laughing laughing laughing rolling on floor laughing rolling on floor laughing laughing out loud Happy Dance Happy Dance

Robtard
These two scissor and break the world, or at least Smallville /thread

TGATES

TGATES
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11131/111316222/5891942-dceu+wonder+woman+lassos+doomsday.gif

^Strength

Nephthys
I think Diana can win, but it'd be a full on final boss fight for her.

Arachnid1
Faora was beating Superman. She flat out stomps.

Silent Master
LOL!!!

TheGrat1
Faora is faster and stronger than Diana. Combined with roughly equal skill and this goes to Faora 9/10.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-13-2017/Bn3V1-.gif

Kal-El can fly with enough force to bust through grain silos and the hull of Kryptonian ships. Faora reacted to the blitz and stopped him cold.

VS

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-13-2017/g2a7jY.gif

Not trying to lowball, it just means Ares is fast too. But his flying and blitzing speed has never been shown to be anywhere close to Kal-El's.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111241908/6061218-8235119479-eNwbE.gif

VS

https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-29-2015/xs-3Ry.gif

Faora does the same thing from a standing position (less leverage to accelerate).

Wonder Woman either jumps to close distances or rides a horse. Faora has superior foot speed.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-13-2017/yPRR57.gif

Nephthys
I'd actually forgotten about that second ares scene. A nice bit of concrete combat speed for WW imo. Arguably just as fast as Faora was at least visually.

TGATES
Originally posted by TheGrat1
Faora is faster and stronger than Diana. Combined with roughly equal skill and this goes to Faora 9/10.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-13-2017/Bn3V1-.gif

Kal-El can fly with enough force to bust through grain silos and the hull of Kryptonian ships. Faora reacted to the blitz and stopped him cold.

VS

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-13-2017/g2a7jY.gif

Not trying to lowball, it just means Ares is fast too. But his flying and blitzing speed has never been shown to be anywhere close to Kal-El's.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111241908/6061218-8235119479-eNwbE.gif

VS

https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-29-2015/xs-3Ry.gif

Faora does the same thing from a standing position (less leverage to accelerate).

Wonder Woman either jumps to close distances or rides a horse. Faora has superior foot speed.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-13-2017/yPRR57.gif

Not really. MoS's visual effects and fights were more gratuitous and over the top, but from what I've seen Diana can actually perceive AND fight at super speed so Its not like she won't be able to react to Faora. Let's say Faora was to hit WW, what is that going to do before WW, who is equal to her in speed but has magical weapons that easily cut kryptonians.

WW can percieve MULTIPLE bullets from an automatic weapon. How can she not perceive Faora?

WW is SO skilled that she is even able to block a bullet at close range with her LASSO when she was fighting the Germans in that courtyard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrdih26Dv_g

^2:09 lasso bullet timing.

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd actually forgotten about that second ares scene. A nice bit of concrete combat speed for WW imo. Arguably just as fast as Faora was at least visually. The bar scene blitz is more impressive imo, as she not only covers the distance but also manages to disarm the guy before he even perceives what's happening. Insane.

TGATES
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
The bar scene blitz is more impressive imo, as she not only covers the distance but also manages to disarm the guy before he even perceives what's happening. Insane.

A short distance and it is also worth mentioning that she did this starting from a seated position.

h1a8
Faora is definitely stronger and have comparable fighting skills and speed.
WW has a sword, bracelets to repel, lasso, and shield.
WW wins after a good fight.

Slowpoke
https://youtu.be/6TkkuavXnHE

I made it

TGATES
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11129/111295659/5354403-3111422235-oKeBz.gif

h1a8
Sorry

Adam Grimes
I forgive you

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Nephthys
I think Diana can win, but it'd be a full on final boss fight for her.

thumb up

If both are going all out, I give Diana a slight advantage and I think she'll eventually win, but it will be a really hard fight...

Adam Grimes
Idk, WW might have the reactions but Faora can blitz the shit out of Diana with her insane flight/combat speed combo.

quanchi112
laughing out loud

No WW clearly wins.

Silent Master
What flight speed did Faora have, can someone post a clip.

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