Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Star-Wars-The-Last-Jedi-Mark-Hamill-as-Luke-Skywalker.jpg

After TLJ, how far does Luke go? Luke is Canon only. Everyone else is Legends only.

Warmup: Arcann

1. Darth Maul

2. Darth Krayt

3. Revan

4. Valkorion

5. Darth Plagueis

Boss: Yoda

Beats me. He didn't actually fight anyone in TLJ.

Yes he did...?

Sending a Force Hologram to distract Kylo isn't a fight, you know. He didn't actually do anything to hurt Kylo and the strain of it killed him.

He chose to dissolve into the force. The strain of doing something doesn't kill.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Sending a Force Hologram to distract Kylo isn't a fight, you know. He didn't actually do anything to hurt Kylo and the strain of it killed him.

Wait a sec... so Luke didn't tank those walker cannons? Yeah, makes sense. Damn, my initial hype for the scene clouded my cognitive thinking. My opinion for the film just sunk even lower.

Forget this thread.

Yeah, the film was a let down in most aspects. I'd be glad if Luke had done that at least, but no.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
He chose to dissolve into the force. The strain of doing something doesn't kill.

No, he didn't. He was visibly strained, fell, tried to get up, fell again and disappeared. He just kinda gave up and died really. Luke takes after Padme, I guess.

Originally posted by Azronger
Wait a sec... so Luke didn't tank those walker cannons?.

Nope. He was doing some astral projection bullshit to distract Kylo. He was physically still on the island. Disney made Luke too much of a pussy to confront Kylo in person.

Warm up.
Luke uses negligible amounts of power and dies.

Originally posted by Psychotron
No, he didn't. He was visibly strained, fell, tried to get up, fell again and disappeared. He just kinda gave up and died really. Luke takes after Padme, I guess.





Yeah, that's the thing. He gave up and died. He didn't die because he was strained( obviously he was), he died because he gave up. Anyways, the novels should make it clear enough.

Now it all makes sense. Right before the Luke scene there's one guy who tastes the ground and says one word. Because one word is all that's needed. It says more than a thousand pictures ever would.

"Salt."

I now understand every ****up in the movie was intentional. Johnson knew he was butchering Luke. He knew he would piss off people by amping Rey's Mary Sue status to 11.

Every single thing he put in the film he put in with the sole intent to hurt the fans.

"Salt."

He didn't want the money. He wanted to taste our salt. He wanted to see us suffer.

Rian Johnson is a sadist and a sociopath, a butcher of art and a hater of Star Wars.

Am I being too dramatic? Perhaps. But deep down, you know everything I've said is true.

Johnson is one of those post-modernist pricks that wants to deconstruct classic heroes like Luke.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Yeah, that's the thing. He gave up and died. He didn't die because he was strained( obviously he was), he died because he gave up. Anyways, the novels should make it clear enough.

Which is an insulting way to end Luke's arc.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Johnson is one of those post-modernist pricks that wants to deconstruct classic heroes like Luke.



Which is an insulting way to end Luke's arc.

Was the story in Johnson's hands? I thought the story was decided previously by Disney.

Nope, he apparently had free reign.

Ah then that fits. In fact, considering he directed Looper, such a thing is only to be expected.

The worst part about this though, is that there isn't any hope for any kind of pleasant surprise in the next movie. Abrams will stick to his straightforward style, and considering he has to base his movie on this mess, well, I am not looking forward to it, that's for sure.

The only way this hack shit can be somewhat redeemed is if Snoke shows up immediately, Kylo goes "wtf" and Snoke asks "Have you heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?".

There's no saving Luke, however. He died because he was tired. Meanwhile, his untrained sister flies through space like Superman. It's just utter insanity.

Arcann solos every character from TLJ, pretty easily.

Stops at Arcann.

I'm very disappointed we didn't see Luke throw down in this film. The force illusion was cool and all, but I still wanted to actually see him kick some ass. And then he just dies for some reason because he was "enlightened" or some BS. Yuck.

Luke would lose to Ep 1 Obi Wan.

Why?

Originally posted by Psychotron
The only way this hack shit can be somewhat redeemed is if Snoke shows up immediately, Kylo goes "wtf" and Snoke asks "Have you heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?".

There's no saving Luke, however. He died because he was tired. Meanwhile, his untrained sister flies through space like Superman. It's just utter insanity. I don't think Luke died because he was tired or whatever. Iirc he got back up and sat crossed legged on that stone perch and starred off at the twin suns reminiscent of the famous scene of him on tatooine as a boy, and then he chose to became one with the force.

Imho it symbolized his story coming to a full circle. Going from the naive farm boy starring off at the suns, to a student of the force, to the hero of the rebellion, to the failed teacher with ren, to the redemed master with rey, then as his final act giving the heroes time to escape to be the spark that lights the rebellion, then coming full circle to his final scene with the twin suns and becoming one with the force.

It also mirrored obi wans story nicely. With obi going from a hero of the clone wars, to failing Anakin as his teacher, to redeeming himself as Luke's, to holding off Vader so the heroes could escape then sacrificing himself to help Luke and save the rebellion.

Luke finally has accepted his actions and the force and in doing so reaches an "enlightenment" becoming one with the Force.

It's completely OOC, but if we ignore the OT and look only at the ST it makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by Psychotron
He just kinda gave up and died really. Luke takes after Padme, I guess.
Retarded, or nah?

Just realized something, does Luke scale from a certain characters "Superman scene"

Yes.

Obviously.

Luke dies. He got owned by 16 year old Kylo Ren.

At times I wonder if people watch these films before commenting.

Originally posted by ares834
At times I wonder if people watch these films before commenting.

Yeah I just watched it. Luke is pathetic, he attempts to murder 16 year old Ben Solo in his sleep, changes his mind. When Ben Solo wakes up and catches him he destroys the room they are in and knocks Luke unconscious and then Ben with some students kill all the Jedi. Its an utterly pathetic showing for Luke. He's trash.

It's called context. Luke is conflicted as hell and is trying to explain himself when Kylo collapses the building. Nothing more. It creates absolutely no comparison between the two as combatants.

Originally posted by ares834


It's called context. Luke is conflicted as hell and is trying to explain himself when Kylo collapses the building. Nothing more. It creates absolutely no comparison between the two as combatants.

That means nothing. He's a seasoned Jedi Master going in to murder someone. Are you saying he was unprepared for the attack? Also, he raises his hand to block Kylo's attack with the force and utterly fails.

It seem Luke's trying to reason with Ben. Not use the force to block. Plus Kylo didn't attack Luke anyway, he brought down the hut.

Yes, it was a bit embarrassing like the initial bout of the Yoda/Sidious fight. But, like I said, it creates no comparison between the two as combatants.

Originally posted by Raptor22
I don't think Luke died because he was tired or whatever. Iirc he got back up and sat crossed legged on that stone perch and starred off at the twin suns reminiscent of the famous scene of him on tatooine as a boy, and then he chose to became one with the force.

Imho it symbolized his story coming to a full circle. Going from the naive farm boy starring off at the suns, to a student of the force, to the hero of the rebellion, to the failed teacher with ren, to the redemed master with rey, then as his final act giving the heroes time to escape to be the spark that lights the rebellion, then coming full circle to his final scene with the twin suns and becoming one with the force.

It also mirrored obi wans story nicely. With obi going from a hero of the clone wars, to failing Anakin as his teacher, to redeeming himself as Luke's, to holding off Vader so the heroes could escape then sacrificing himself to help Luke and save the rebellion.

I know what it symbolized. It just didn't make any sense. Obi-Wan only died because he had no choice, Vader would have killed him either way. He let himself be killed to make Luke escape. Luke died for no reason at all.

Well actually, the reason is simple. They had to kill him off so MaRey Sue can be the real hero.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Retarded, or nah?

Care to share your interpretation?

Originally posted by ares834
It seem Luke's trying to reason with Ben. Not use the force to block. Plus Kylo didn't attack Luke anyway, he brought down the hut.

Yes, it was a bit embarrassing like the initial bout of the Yoda/Sidious fight. But, like I said, it creates no comparison between the two as combatants.

I'm not comparing them as combatants, you are putting words into my mouth. I'm saying no one on that list would get humiliated in that fashion by an untrained boy like Ben Solo. That showing (when paired with his lack of other showings) puts him firmly below pretty much everyone else. Can you imagine Darth Maul getting owned by 16 year old Anakin? Also he was just looking into his mind and seeing what Ben was capable of, and had his saber drawn battle ready, there's really no excuse for a Jedi Master not to be able to hold up a ****ing hut in those conditions. Let alone be knocked out for hours. I mean come the **** on man. Luke is pathetic in this film.

If you aren't comparing them as combatants then what's the point of bringing it up? The only thing it shows is Luke looking a bit idiotic as he was caught off guard. He can obviously use the force to hold up a hut (when untrained he can shake a Star Destroyer FFS), but Kylo's attack surprised him. Ultimately, it gives us nothing about how capable of a combatant Luke is.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I'm not comparing them as combatants, you are putting words into my mouth. I'm saying no one on that list would get humiliated in that fashion by an untrained boy like Ben Solo. That showing (when paired with his lack of other showings) puts him firmly below pretty much everyone else. Can you imagine Darth Maul getting owned by 16 year old Anakin? Also he was just looking into his mind and seeing what Ben was capable of, and had his saber drawn battle ready, there's really no excuse for a Jedi Master not to be able to hold up a ****ing hut in those conditions. Let alone be knocked out for hours. I mean come the **** on man. Luke is pathetic in this film.
Ben was 25.

Luke was taken by surprise and IIRC Ben pulled the structure on him.

Originally posted by ares834
If you aren't comparing them as combatants then what's the point of bringing it up? The only thing it shows is Luke looking a bit idiotic as he was caught off guard. He can obviously use the force to hold up a hut (when untrained he can shake a Star Destroyer FFS), but Kylo's attack surprised him. Ultimately, it gives us nothing about how capable of a combatant Luke is.

Caught by surprise? Bruh he just peered into his mind and saw his violent will and had his ****ing lightsaber in hand. Wtf did he think was gonna happen? Ben was just gonna be like 'Oh I'm sure you have a great explanation for trying to murder me'. Especially after he drew his lightsaber.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ben was 25.

Luke was taken by surprise and IIRC Ben pulled the structure on him.

The point isn't the age, the point is he was barely trained. A presumably stronger Kylo Ren got bested by an untrained girl.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Caught by surprise? Bruh he just peered into his mind and saw his violent will and had his ****ing lightsaber in hand. Wtf did he think was gonna happen? Ben was just gonna be like 'Oh I'm sure you have a great explanation for trying to murder me'. Especially after he drew his lightsaber.

Which is nothing compared to Sheev zapping Yoda and then Yoda pushing Sheev. Characters are idiots from time to time and get caught off guard when they shouldn't.

But that was an example of both being arrogant. Luke doesn't get that excuse. Not saying Ben beat him or whatever, but it was dumb.

Originally posted by ares834
Which is nothing compared to Sheev zapping Yoda and then Yoda pushing Sheev. Characters are idiots from time to time and get caught off guard when they shouldn't.

Except you are comparing Darth Sidious, the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history and Yoda, the most powerful Jedi in galactic history. Them catching each other off guard is pretty acceptable because of who they are and their power. If Yoda got caught off guard and TK'd by AOTCs Anakin we'd all be ****ing talking about what a garbage feat it is for Yoda especially if he also had zero combat feats against people like Sidious and Dooku.
Originally posted by Psychotron
But that was an example of both being arrogant. Luke doesn't get that excuse. Not saying Ben beat him or whatever, but it was dumb.

My point exactly.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Except you are comparing Darth Sidious, the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history and Yoda, the most powerful Jedi in galactic history. Them catching each other off guard is pretty acceptable because of who they are and their power. If Yoda got caught off guard and TK'd by AOTCs Anakin we'd all be ****ing talking about what a garbage feat it is for Yoda especially if he also had zero combat feats against people like Sidious and Dooku.

Their power level is irrelevant to catching them off guard.

Arcann with but the slightest of gestures.

I don't even think that it was suprise that stopped Luke from defending himself against kylo, as much as he was distracted with his shame of almost killing his nephew in his sleep, and caught in the middle of trying to explain to kylo that he wasn't going to go thru with it.

Originally posted by ares834
Their power level is irrelevant to catching them off guard.

First of all...yes it is. You're not going to catch Darth Sidious or Yoda getting force choked by TPM Anakin and with good reason.

Second even the idea that Luke was "caught off guard" is a ridiculous assertion. Luke was not off guard. He was holding an active ****ing lightsaber. If he wasn't expecting a fight why didn't he deactivate it? Why because he sensed Ben was going to attack him (which he did and did proceed to block Ben's attack). If he was wasn't on guard he would have been cleaved in two. He wasn't caught off guard. He underestimated Kylo and got punished for it. +Its embarrassing that he got knocked out for hours by that.

Uh. Maul was caught way worse by Obi-Wan, Kanan, Clones, etc...

Again he was straining from scores of planets away and was still easily avoiding Kylo's strikes and more or less died only to give the rebels a chance to escape.

Nothing in their brief fight on that Salt planet leads me to believe Kylo is anywhere near his uncle.

Originally posted by ares834
Uh. Maul was caught way worse by Obi-Wan, Kanan, Clones, etc...

Dogs...

Originally posted by ares834
Uh. Maul was caught way worse by Obi-Wan, Kanan, Clones, etc...

Lol it wasn't way worse with Kenobi and Kanan because both were experiencing oneness with the force (don't recall the Clones example but I'd believe it), and in all those examples Maul was rightfully lambasted. And you also then have the reverse with Dooku being in bed and drugged and still defeating three highly skilled assassins.

Oh come on people; Luke was screaming something like "no, Kylo, wait!" with a horrified look after admitting to being ashamed of himself, and this is supposed to be how we judge his combat skills?

You've somehow figured out how much to calibrate Luke against that level of emotional conflict? How?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
You've somehow figured out how much to calibrate Luke against that level of emotional conflict? How? just scale it against your bias.