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How would you rank Kylo and Rey compared to other canon characters now that you've seen TLJ?

Well below the other major Jedi/Sith.

Above Vader level.

Originally posted by ares834

Sorry buddy. They are far more impressive that ROTJ Luke, and he pushed Vader's shit in when Vader was at his strongest, so...

Vader was conflicted. That's the entire point of RotJ. But, even if we ignore that, then Luke being on par with Vader means he is well above these two as Vader's canon feats shit all over theirs.

Well, unless im missing details

Leia withstanding a bridge explosion and surviving Vacuum of space would put Kylo, Luke, Rey, and Snoke above Qui-Gon. Very impressive showing of Barrier powers that rivals Vadera best canon stuff

Rey is still pretty low. I think Kylo is definitely on the level of some low to mid tier council masters from the PT

Vader withstands explosions that dwarf that, and he has flown through the vacuum of space after casually leaping from his starfighter in the Marvel comics.

Well he has armor that protects him from the Vacuum of space. But, yeah, that showing pales in comparison to what we've seen him do.

And it's not as if she used a barrier to survive the explosion anyway. The explosion tore a hole in the bridge pulling her out into vacuum where she used the force to survive and yank herself to safety.

Originally posted by ares834
Vader was conflicted. That's the entire point of RotJ. But, even if we ignore that, then Luke being on par with Vader means he is well above these two as Vader's canon feats shit all over theirs.

I used to think that, but the ROTJ novelisation and comic definitely makes it clear that Vader was prepared to kill Luke and wasn't holding back.

Sure. Which doesn't change the fact that he was conflicted and therefore won't be fighting to the best of his abilities.

Oh, never mind then. I guess the space thing is still valid but not really anything quantifiable for combat.

Originally posted by ares834
Well he has armor that protects him from the Vacuum of space. But, yeah, that showing pales in comparison to what we've seen him do.

And it's not as if she used a barrier to survive the explosion anyway. The explosion tore a hole in the bridge pulling her out into vacuum where she used the force to survive and yank herself to safety.

And she was comatosed afterwards, when vader walked out

Originally posted by ares834
Sure. Which doesn't change the fact that he was conflicted and therefore won't be fighting to the best of his abilities.

So? Luke was intuitively copying Vader's Form V to the point where whatever Vader throws at him, he'll just use right back at his dad. According to the sources, Jedi Masters would be amazed at how Luke learnt so quickly.

What's your point?

Luke isn't on par with Vader. He's above Vader solely because when he fights Vader, he just copies the form and improves it.

A hampered Vader. Sure.

Luke pretty much scales with whatever Vader outputs.

Rey can lift a pile of rocks. Kylo stalemated her. No clue why people think they're Vader level.

EDIT: Well, now that I think about it, it's pretty blatant there's no one who actually thinks that. The only people who say so are trolling.

They struggled against non-force sensitive Praetorian guards. So not very high.

Kylo wants to be as strong as Vader, that's how Snoke is able to manipulate him.

Originally posted by samappo
Kylo wants to be as strong as Vader, that's how Snoke is able to manipulate him.
Kylo has never met Vader, he doesn't know how strong he is. He just fixates on him as a symbol because of the family connection and his own personal demons.

Originally posted by samappo
Kylo wants to be as strong as Vader, that's how Snoke is able to manipulate him.

Yep. Hell, even Snoke seems to be fascinated with Vader's power and he is well beyond either Kylo or Rey.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Rey is still pretty low. I think Kylo is definitely on the level of some low to mid tier council masters from the PT
Rey and Kylo are explicitly and visibly equals.

I like the detail that Rey was getting her ass kicked by 2 guards while Kylo was mowing through them.

There is clearly a gap there.

Originally posted by ares834
Yep. Hell, even Snoke seems to be fascinated with Vader's power and he is well beyond either Kylo or Rey.

"The bloodline of Vader," is fascinating to pretty much anyone, though, Palpatine included. He may have felt differently if Kylo were a cripple.

They seem to be talking about suited Vader though.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Oh, never mind then. I guess the space thing is still valid but not really anything quantifiable for combat.
Considering Aphra survives in space for literally no reason, it's not as impressive as it sounds.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Rey and Kylo are explicitly and visibly equals. Not really. Given Rey struggled to best one or two of Snoke's Praetorian, and Kylo succeeded in soloing the rest of them, save one. Kylo was quite obviously Rey's superior in sabers, the only area of contention between them is in the Force.

Kylo had to be saved by Rey when that one guy was choking him out. Also, Rey already defeated him in TFA, so...

Originally posted by Lord Stark
They struggled against non-force sensitive Praetorian guards. So not very high.
There have been many times when force sensitives have struggled against non force sensitives. Maul struggled against Pre Vizla, a non force senstive. Obi Wan struggled against Jango Fett and Grievous. Since we don't know how Praetorian guards compare, the fact that they're non force sensitive doesn't really mean anything

That's just my two cents. I haven't even seen the movie yet so we'll see how I feel after that. Seeing it in 2 hours!

Originally posted by Lord Stark
They struggled against non-force sensitive Praetorian guards. So not very high.

Canon has non-force sensitives able to contend with Jedi/Sith. That's just the way things are now.

Originally posted by Greysentinel365
Canon has non-force sensitives able to contend with Jedi/Sith. That's just the way things are now.


True, but its usually through use of gadget, tech and evasion, rather than flat out going blow for blow with them.

We don't even know the history/info of the Praetorian Guards, so we can't just make assumptions yet ...

Just saw the movie, I still don't think there's any way to scale their power relative to other characters tbh

Originally posted by Rebel95
Just saw the movie, I still don't think there's any way to scale their power relative to other characters tbh

They can really only scale to eachother at this point.