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Dooku is on another level.

Dooku.

Dooku.

Dooks and its not even close.

x4

Dooku ftw.

Dooku

Tyranus easy

Dooku would have taken out those Praetorian Guard without even using his lightsaber.

Kylo wins. It's clear Kylo and Rey are a big deal. Raw strength uncomparable save to Rey according to Luke. Skywalker wins. Dooku was held captive by Hondo for ****s sake.

Dooku

Make the thread...

DOOKU!!!!!??????


Are we being serious now!!!!???


Based on what is Dooku somehow superior to Kylo??

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
DOOKU!!!!!??????


Are we being serious now!!!!???


Based on what is Dooku somehow superior to Kylo??

Maybe you need to and watch the Clone Wars series.

Have we seen Kylo have a proper bout without handicaps against anyone worth a dime? He was hurt when he faced Rey in TFA and still managed to toy with Finn easily. He got passively ragged by Snoke, but that doesn't mean he entirely lacks the defenses he needs against Force Powers. He was entirely tricked by Luke's illusion but it wasn't really a straight fight.

Dooku held his ground vs Yoda and manhandled Kenobi. He's too experienced as a duelist and has the superior force powers.

Dooku was killed by Anakin in rots and Kylo at his best would defeat him as well. Everyone in this new trilogy is bigger and badder than those seen prior to. Same goes for their ships, weapons, troops, and force abilities. We are seeing abilities on a much grander scale.

Originally posted by SquallX
Maybe you need to and watch the Clone Wars series.

Maybe you need to understand Star Wars.

Originally posted by Bentley
Have we seen Kylo have a proper bout without handicaps against anyone worth a dime? He was hurt when he faced Rey in TFA and still managed to toy with Finn easily. He got passively ragged by Snoke, but that doesn't mean he entirely lacks the defenses he needs against Force Powers. He was entirely tricked by Luke's illusion but it wasn't really a straight fight.

Dooku held his ground vs Yoda and manhandled Kenobi. He's too experienced as a duelist and has the superior force powers.

I remind you Rey's connection with the force rivals that of Anakin himself!

She was able to lift tons of rock and learn decent light saber techniques without any training!

WTH!?

Kylo was able to counter Luke himself!

Furthermore Kylo was smart enough to get rid of Snoke! He knew sooner or later Snoke would turn on him.

Dooku on the other hand was easily manipulated by Sidious!

Dooku clearly lost to Yoda! And badly!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Your intelligence is astonishing.


Shit argument.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dooku was killed by Anakin in rots and Kylo at his best would defeat him as well. Everyone in this new trilogy is bigger and badder than those seen prior to. Same goes for their ships, weapons, troops, and force abilities. We are seeing abilities on a much grander scale.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Maybe you need to understand Star Wars.

That made no sense.

Originally posted by SquallX
A laughing emoji isn't an adequate counter. Would you like another chance ?

Originally posted by SquallX
That made no sense.

Just like it doesn't make sense to you that Kylo is clearly superior to Dooku.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I remind you Rey's connection with the force rivals that of Anakin himself!

She was able to lift tons of rock and learn decent light saber techniques without any training!

WTH!?

Dooku more than matched Anakin when he had years of training in their first encounter. Sheer Force Power won't be enough to face this kind of opponent as Anakin learned the hard way.


Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Furthermore Kylo was smart enough to get rid of Snoke! He knew sooner or later Snoke would turn on him.

Dooku on the other hand was easily manipulated by Sidious!

Dooku clearly lost to Yoda! And badly!

For what it counts I'd give Kylo the win in a backstabbing competition.

Originally posted by Bentley
Dooku more than matched Anakin when he had years of training in their first encounter. Sheer Force Power won't be enough to face this kind of opponent as Anakin learned the hard way.




For what it counts I'd give Kylo the win in a backstabbing competition.

After a hard thought and reconsideration.

Tyranus wins.

For now.

I will wait for Ep 9 for more feats for Kylo.

However saying that Tyranus power is way beyond Kylo's is not wise.

I look forward to Kylo and Rey getting more than lip service.

My only disappointment is that TLJ didn't deliver in the lightsaber fights. What's the point in throwing assumedly uber characters if you take away all the fun that is actual combat?

Originally posted by Bentley
I look forward to Kylo and Rey getting more than lip service.

My only disappointment is that TLJ didn't deliver in the lightsaber fights. What's the point in throwing assumedly uber characters if you take away all the fun that is actual combat? Did you miss them take on Snoke's personal guard ?

Originally posted by Bentley
I look forward to Kylo and Rey getting more than lip service.

My only disappointment is that TLJ didn't deliver in the lightsaber fights. What's the point in throwing assumedly uber characters if you take away all the fun that is actual combat?

Yeah the Lightsaber scenes weren't that good TBH.

I admit that my biggest disappointment was that Dreadnought being destroyed by a single ****ing ship.

That was the stupidest scene i've ever scene.

Kylo and especially Rey got some solid feat upgrades in TLJ, but your top dogs like Dooku are still above their pay grade.

Dooku soundly defeats Kylo.

I can't see Kylo embarrassing Kenobi like Dooku has on multiple occasions.

Josh Alexander might or might not have an spare chromosoma. Like quano more or less.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dooku was killed by Anakin in rots and Kylo at his best would defeat him as well. Everyone in this new trilogy is bigger and badder than those seen prior to. Same goes for their ships, weapons, troops, and force abilities. We are seeing abilities on a much grander scale. He lost to Anakin because he was following the plan laid out by Palpatine which was for him to be captured, then Palpatine turned on Dooku, hence the surprise look on his face. Just 2 minutes before he was kicking Anakins ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEYA1FgujOk

Not worth the Count's effort. Maybe Dooku can spare a single dose of lightning as a gesture of pity.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
He lost to Anakin because he was following the plan laid out by Palpatine which was for him to be captured, then Palpatine turned on Dooku, hence the surprise look on his face. Just 2 minutes before he was kicking Anakins ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEYA1FgujOk Dooku lost cleanly. Dooku was caught by surprise with the betrayal. Ok ? He lost the duel.

Kylo beats the shit out of Dooku.

Originally posted by Placidity
Not worth the Count's effort. Maybe Dooku can spare a single dose of lightning as a gesture of pity.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards. Dooku was held captive by Hondo and his goons so please know your Star Wars. Those guys were pathetic. What's ironic is they later held Anakin and Kenobi as well. For ****s sake know your Star Wars you embarrassment.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dooku lost cleanly. Dooku was caught by surprise with the betrayal. Ok ? He lost the duel.

Kylo beats the shit out of Dooku. Dooku was just following the plan to hold back.

I find your lack of Star Wars knowledge disturbing.

Originally posted by Placidity
Not worth the Count's effort. Maybe Dooku can spare a single dose of lightning as a gesture of pity.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards. Kylo Ren had to be saved from one of those non-force user guards.

LOL, two movies in and this guys not even on Dooku's radar.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Dooku was just following the plan to hold back.

I find your lack of Star Wars knowledge disturbing. No, he lost cleanly. He antagonized Anakin and let loose the beast. Your excuses are of no import.

I find your retardation troubling.

Kylo decimates Dooku. Too powerful and without any spiritual weakening his skills destroy Dooku's with the lightsaber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEYA1FgujOk

Maybe you didn't watch it.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Kylo Ren had to be saved from one of those non-force user guards.

LOL, two movies in and this guys not even on Dooku's radar. Ridiculous reasoning. We have seen Maul require a lengthy battle to defeat Pre Vizsla who also has no force powers. Snoke has some of the most elite fighters obviously if you're a person who is reasonable and grasps the amount of power at Snoke's disposal.

Jango Fett also doesn't have any force powers but how did Kenobi fare ? This is the Jedi who defeated Lord Vader without the incumberances of a suit keeping a maimed and disfigured body alive.

Horrific and cherry picking while ignoring the other instances of non force sensitives showing that can challenge a high ranking Jedi.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEYA1FgujOk

Maybe you didn't watch it. Dooku was surprised Palpatine abandoned him after his defeat. Please shake yourself out of the stupidity that has taken a hold over you. His theories don't overtake Star Wars canon.

Here is another video you should watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk7GY_Zv9mk

Originally posted by quanchi112
His theories don't overtake Star Wars canon. Says the clown who uses actors opinions on power levels.

The guy in the video was using quotes from novelization of the movie.

Anakin's win over Dooku was completely legit.

That said Kylo's no match for Anakin, Dooku or even Obi-Wan as of now.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Anakin's win over Dooku was completely legit.

That said Kylo's no match for Anakin, Dooku or even Obi-Wan as of now. Was Obi-Wans win over Anakin legit?

And you don't think Kylo can beat Obi-Wan?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Says the clown who uses actors opinions on power levels.

The guy in the video was using quotes from novelization of the movie. He theorized aka inserts his own opinion. We have an actor who worked alongside the director in the film to hear everyone's input regarding the characters power levels. You might see an internet nerd's opinion as carrying as much weight but please don't expect anyone else to, sport.

Both guys were using quotes from the novel.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Both guys were using quotes from the novel. Again I made my points I reject this idiots opinion. It isn't canon nor did he work with the cast and crew of A Last Jedi.

An actors opinion isn't canon.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
An actors opinion isn't canon. I didn't say it was but it carries more weight than a nerd online. The facts speak for themselves from the film. His utter domination of Rey is unprecedented considering how powerful Luke stated she was. Kylo was unable to break her prior to her even knowing she had any powers.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I didn't say it was but it carries more weight than a nerd online. The facts speak for themselves from the film. His utter domination of Rey is unprecedented considering how powerful Luke stated she was. Kylo was unable to break her prior to her even knowing she had any powers. Snoke MAY be more powerful than Sidious or Vader, but he has not proven it yet and being he's pushing daisies already we may never see it. I'm not going to take the word of the actor who played the character.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Snoke MAY be more powerful than Sidious or Vader, but he has not proven it yet and being he's pushing daisies already we may never see it. I'm not going to take the word of the actor who played the character. He is. To deny how powerful Ret and Ben are is pure fanboyism. Hell, Vader got his ass kicked by Vader back in the day of Rotj. Luke was scare as **** of Rey's power.

Let reality seep into your brain.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is. To deny how powerful Ret and Ben are is pure fanboyism. Hell, Vader got his ass kicked by Vader back in the day of Rotj. Luke was scare as **** of Rey's power.

Let reality seep into your brain. Vader beat Vader? What movies are you watching?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I think Anakins mind was in flux, that's why Obi-Wan was able to beat him.


Yes kind of like how Snoke explains why Kylo lost to Rey in TFA.

Difference of course, is that Anakin in that kind of state still only lost to a High Level Master. Ren lost to a total noob.

People just underestimate Kenobi and Soresu.

Vader was lucky Obi-Wan let him win in ANH.

Dooku wins.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
People just underestimate Kenobi and Soresu.

Vader was lucky Obi-Wan let him win in ANH.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes kind of like how Snoke explains why Kylo lost to Rey in TFA.

Difference of course, is that Anakin in that kind of state still only lost to a High Level Master. Ren lost to a total noob.

tbf he'd been shot in the gut by a bowcaster.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
People just underestimate Kenobi and Soresu.

Vader was lucky Obi-Wan let him win in ANH. Are those lightsaber styles even recognized in canon anymore?

I'm just confused as to what people count here. I was under the impression that the movies plus the feats from the clone wars tv show are what count here.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Are those lightsaber styles even recognized in canon anymore?

Of course.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_III

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Vader beat Vader? What movies are you watching? Vader's masturbation fantasies. Luke beat Vader in reality.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes kind of like how Snoke explains why Kylo lost to Rey in TFA.

Difference of course, is that Anakin in that kind of state still only lost to a High Level Master. Ren lost to a total noob. Ren was injured by the bowcaster. I guess this doesn't factor in.

Originally posted by Placidity
Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards. As many times as you repeat your ignorance it doesn't make it any less ignorant each and every time you do so.

Originally posted by Placidity
Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards. That's some funny shit.

Dooku was drugged and fought off 3 or 4 of those force using assasins who would themselves smoke the Praetarian Guard.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
That's some funny shit.

Dooku was drugged and fought off 3 or 4 of those force using assasins who would themselves smoke the Praetarian Guard. Im the same series he, Kenobi, and Anakin were held captive by Hondo and his space pirate buddies.

Dooku wins, not as much raw power but his force abilities and lightsaber skills are more advanced. Kylo will likely surpass him soon though, just as Anakin did

Originally posted by Rebel95
Dooku wins, not as much raw power but his force abilities and lightsaber skills are more advanced. Kylo will likely surpass him soon though, just as Anakin did

Dooku has more refined power you mean.

I agree, Dooku is superior to Kylo.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
People just underestimate Kenobi and Soresu.

Vader was lucky Obi-Wan let him win in ANH.

LOL that old man could barely lift his sword let alone beat Vader; hes a shadow of his younger self in ANH

Originally posted by quanchi112
Im the same series he, Kenobi, and Anakin were held captive by Hondo and his space pirate buddies.



The obvious difference is that you pick low-end feats for Dooku, yet Kylo is consistently a failure.

Why did you even bring up something like that? So easy.

Originally posted by Placidity
The obvious difference is that you pick low-end feats for Dooku, yet Kylo is consistently a failure.

Why did you even bring up something like that? So easy. False, and speaking of failures look at us of Dooku and Kylo. Who is the failure now you dunce. Kylo killed his father, (Vader failed at bringing his son over to his son he's the one who bailed on the Sith), Dooku was the ultimate patsy never knowing the intentions of Palpatine from the onset. Kylo utterly destroys him. He was trained by Snoke and Luke Skywalker.

Originally posted by relentless1
LOL that old man could barely lift his sword let alone beat Vader; hes a shadow of his younger self in ANH And yet Vader still didn't have an advantage prior to Kenobi giving up.

Poor Vader.

Originally posted by relentless1
LOL that old man could barely lift his sword let alone beat Vader; hes a shadow of his younger self in ANH

Yet he b!tched Maul with no effort in Rebels.

For me it's hard to get over the fact that Kylo Ren had to be saved while fighting those Praetorian Guards. Now I could see if they had projectile weapons like blasters or something else, but they were just armed with melee weapons. Dooku would have destroyed those fools all by himself.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
For me it's hard to get over the fact that Kylo Ren had to be saved while fighting those Praetorian Guards. Now I could see if they had projectile weapons like blasters or something else, but they were just armed with melee weapons. Dooku would have destroyed those fools all by himself. Speculation. Two Jedi ran from mere droids in Phantom Menace. These guards would destroy Dooku.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Speculation. Two Jedi ran from mere droids in Phantom Menace. These guards would destroy Dooku. Those droids have shields and projectile weapons, the guards that kicked Kylo's ass were armed with melee weapons.

Big difference there sunshine.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Those droids have shields and projectile weapons, the guards that kicked Kylo's ass were armed with melee weapons.

Big difference there sunshine. The point is droids don't stack up to two Jedi. These guards can take on two of the most powerful force users in the galaxy. The guards stood out and were Snoke's own elite which makes sense while the droids were just random droids.

Who beat Luke Skywalker in the film ?

Kylo wins, loser.

Why are you using that example? We're talking about Dooku here not Kenobi and Qui-Gon, who are not even comparable to Dooku.

Kylo got his ass kicked by an untrained initiate after getting grazed by a bowcaster, then got his ass kicked by some non-force using guards armed with melee weapons.

Dooku stomped 3 force using assasins after being drugged, then gets captured by 30 armed pirates armed with long range weapons.

Dooku wins.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Why are you using that example? We're talking about Dooku here not Kenobi and Qui-Gon, who are not even comparable to Dooku. Yes, they are. Dooku was held hostage by Hondo and his pirates then. He didn't even protest.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Kylo got his ass kicked by an untrained initiate after getting grazed by a bowcaster, then got his ass kicked by some non-force using guards armed with melee weapons.

Dooku stomped 3 force using assasins after being drugged, then gets captured by 30 armed pirates armed with long range weapons.

Dooku wins. He was spiritually weakened. Ben beat Luke after a nap. Snoke's guards are elite as **** unlike Palpatine's weaklings.

Dooku fought lessers from Dathomir. Who cares ? So what ? He has the force so I guess long ranged weapons is greater to you.

Kylo wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, they are. Dooku was held hostage by Hondo and his pirates then. He didn't even protest. Not realy, we know how Kenobi vs Dooku goes.

Protesting? Do you even know anything about Dooku? He's too arrogant for that shit.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Not realy, we know how Kenobi vs Dooku goes.

Protesting? Do you even know anything about Dooku? He's too arrogant for that shit. Dooku eins but he can't utterly dominate him like Snoke dominated Rey.

To submit without a fight is rather weak for someone of his arrogance. Poor Dooku.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was spiritually weakened. Ben beat Luke after a nap. Snoke's guards are elite as **** unlike Palpatine's weaklings.

Dooku fought lessers from Dathomir. Who cares ? So what ? He has the force so I guess long ranged weapons is greater to you.

Kylo wins. Those 3 Nightsister assasins would destroy those guards with ease.

Being captured by people who have long range weapons when you don't have one is better than getting you're shit pushed in by people armed with melee weapons.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Those 3 Nightsister assasins would destroy those guards with ease.

Being captured by people who have long range weapons when you don't have one is better than getting you're shit pushed in by people armed with melee weapons. Speculation. Snoke held more power than the Dathomirian skanks. Don't say such laughable things.

Anakin didn't have any long ranged weapons and he's one guy. You abandon your asinine logic. The guards were elite.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Speculation. Snoke held more power than the Dathomirian skanks. Don't say such laughable things.

Anakin didn't have any long ranged weapons and he's one guy. You abandon your asinine logic. The guards were elite. Shit Mother Talzin>>>>Snoke. LOL. Sidious even feared her.

Long range weapons>>>melee weapons.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Shit Mother Talzin>>>>Snoke. LOL.

Long range weapons>>>melee weapons. Nah, she is Palpatine's equal in a test of power.

Anakin didn't need one to kill Dooku.

Your logic falls apart.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nah, she is Palpatine's equal in a test of power.

Anakin didn't need one to kill Dooku.

Your logic falls apart. Palpatine feared Talzin just as Snoke would.

Anybody with half a brain would rather have a long range weapon over a melee weapon.

Watch Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
then gets captured by 30 armed pirates armed with long range weapons.




Yep he was completely surrounded and without his Lightsaber at hand.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Palpatine feared Talzin just as Snoke would.

Anybody with half a brain would rather have a long range weapon over a melee weapon.

Watch Raiders of the Lost Ark. Snoke would have defeated her on his own. Palpatine needed Dooku and Grievous.


Not if you're super skilled with one over the other. A gun can't protect you very well in close quarters to a guy with a laser sword.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Originally posted by Placidity
Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards. Struggling?

More like getting his ass kicked.

If they were anything like Palpatine's guards from EU, then no wonder they were so formidable.

That's a big assumption and Disney doesn't care about Legends much. Nice that they used Thrawn in Rebels, at least.

The point is Yoda handwaved them away. Skill level wouldn't change that at all. An obvious point the clown will ignore or counter with something else that is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Placidity
Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards. Kenobi struggled with Jango just a bounty hunter. Kenobi beat Vader pre suit.

Originally posted by Placidity
The point is Yoda handwaved them away. Skill level wouldn't change that at all. An obvious point the clown will ignore or counter with something else that is irrelevant. They had Yoda dead to rights and didn't attack. Skill level definitely would change that as well as their skill, weaponry, greater numbers, different people all tear down your all guards are equal nonsense. Dumb.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke would have defeated her on his own. Palpatine needed Dooku and Grievous.


Not if you're super skilled with one over the other. A gun can't protect you very well in close quarters to a guy with a laser sword. Talzin would molest Snoke.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yep he was completely surrounded and without his Lightsaber at hand. Exactly, that's not as bad as almost meeting you're death by some highly trained guards with melee weapons.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Talzin would molest Snoke.

Exactly, that's not as bad as almost meeting you're death by some highly trained guards with melee weapons. Untrue. We do know Sidious wasn't able to defeat her on his own. Undeniable.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They had Yoda dead to rights and didn't attack. Skill level definitely would change that as well as their skill, weaponry, greater numbers, different people all tear down your all guards are equal nonsense. Dumb.

What did I tell you? You would counter with irrelevant points.

Skill doesn't counter force TK.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Originally posted by Placidity
What did I tell you? You would counter with irrelevant points.

Skill doesn't counter force TK.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards. Ask Kenobi why he couldn't beat Jango then.

Ben beat Luke the same guy who crushed Vader.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ask Kenobi why he couldn't beat Jango then.



Jango > Guard.

But good that you admit Kylo is at best comparable to Ep II Kenobi.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Originally posted by Placidity
Jango > Guard.

But good that you admit Kylo is at best comparable to Ep II Kenobi.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards. Your point was skill > force user and I'm just disproved your logic. Now it's changing again. You move the goalposts because you're a dunce.

Ben beat Luke who crushed Vader. Poor Ot guys.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your point was skill > force user

No I said the opposite, did you pass grade 3 math?

But good that you admit Kylo is at best comparable to Ep II Kenobi.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.

Originally posted by Placidity
No I said the opposite, did you pass grade 3 math?

But good that you admit Kylo is at best comparable to Ep II Kenobi.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards. Skill can take on force powers. Jango wasn't armed the entire time with his gun. Kenobi still needed to focus on fighting and doesn't have time to defeat let alone easily dominate via his force powers.

Kylo beats any Kenobi.

Originally posted by Placidity
Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards.
In all fairness, Kylo was severely injured during his fight with Rey, an "untrained initiate" with immense raw power who could have beaten trained jedi masters for all we know. And there are many examples of non force users giving force users a tough fight, such as Pre Vizla, magnaguards, etc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Skill can take on force powers.

Hahaha. Let me screenshot that one, so I can bring it out when I create a Kylo/Snoke vs Skilled Non-force user character thread.

And so we're clear, we're talking about Clown-Guard level skill, not even someone like Captain America.

Good laugh though, thanks.

Originally posted by Rebel95
In all fairness, Kylo was severely injured during his fight with Rey, an "untrained initiate" with immense raw power who could have beaten trained jedi masters for all we know. And there are many examples of non force users giving force users a tough fight, such as Pre Vizla, magnaguards, etc.

*Potential* raw power in the force, not saber combat. While the force can enhance saber skills, said skills are mastered through training.

Kylo had that excuse in his first film, he failed to demonstrate anything better in the new movie. All we see is him struggle with the guards, so that point doesn't stand at all.

Your examples are low-showings, which are countered by average/high-level showings, of which there are plenty more. Kylo has no such feats - consistently weak.

Also, no one in the upper echelon has had problems with non-force users in direct combat. This forum's dear Quan Clown believes Snoke/Kylo are in that group. We see Yoda casually TK the Emperor's guards, and Sidious toy with Maul and Savage.

Dooku 10/10 against 2-3 Kylos

Originally posted by Placidity
Jango > Guard.

But good that you admit Kylo is at best comparable to Ep II Kenobi.

Kylo can stick with struggling with untrained initiates and non-force user guards. Jango used more technology than pure skill when he fought Kenobi. And besides Kenobi was half assing it anyways as he mission was to bring him in alive.

Originally posted by Placidity
The point is Yoda handwaved them away. Skill level wouldn't change that at all. An obvious point the clown will ignore or counter with something else that is irrelevant.

Not the same Guard (despite the same suit) and some of them were force-sensitive.

Still, we don't know much about Snoke's guards other than they were inspired by Palpatine's, their training and abilities were likely different.

Dooku. This isn't even a contest

Originally posted by Placidity
Hahaha. Let me screenshot that one, so I can bring it out when I create a Kylo/Snoke vs Skilled Non-force user character thread.

And so we're clear, we're talking about Clown-Guard level skill, not even someone like Captain America.

Good laugh though, thanks. It can as Khan would defeat Kylo. I've already argued this countless times. Just a random nonsensical point about force equals auto win ignores countless Star Wars examples of skilled opponents such as Jango Fett and Cad Bane taking on force users such as Obi Wan Kenobi who defeated Darth Vader.

You haven't proven they are clown level. You just keep saying that and thinking you proved something. You're a moron. Grade a retard.

Proof is Kylo and Rey having to team up to take them out. How did both fare against Luke in the film ?

Pull your head out of your ass.

Originally posted by Placidity
*Potential* raw power in the force, not saber combat. While the force can enhance saber skills, said skills are mastered through training.

Kylo had that excuse in his first film, he failed to demonstrate anything better in the new movie. All we see is him struggle with the guards, so that point doesn't stand at all.

Your examples are low-showings, which are countered by average/high-level showings, of which there are plenty more. Kylo has no such feats - consistently weak.

Also, no one in the upper echelon has had problems with non-force users in direct combat. This forum's dear Quan Clown believes Snoke/Kylo are in that group. We see Yoda casually TK the Emperor's guards, and Sidious toy with Maul and Savage. Kylo had training and Rey had some training as well as combat experience.

He defeated Luke prior to the first film. He was also spiritually weakened, shot by a bowcaster prior to that fight.

No, he's consistently powerful. Defeated Luke, Poe Dameron, defeated Rey once, tag teamed Snoke's guards who are elite.

Yoda beat two guards who didn't attack and just aimed their weapons at Yoda. They aren't the same guards nor did they even attack. Entirely different situation with inferior numbers allied against him.

Originally posted by Raptor22
Dooku. This isn't even a contest Based on ?

Originally posted by Raptor22
Dooku. This isn't even a contest Being Dooku is old he may break a little sweat but that's it.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Being Dooku is old he may break a little sweat but that's it. Kylo is too powerful and too skilled to lose this to him. Kylo kills him quickly.

I began supporting Kylo. But honestly Kylo just hasnt shown enough.

Furthermore, Kylo's experience and knowledge arent nothing compared to Dooku.

Dooku is just on another level.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I began supporting Kylo. But honestly Kylo just hasnt shown enough.

Furthermore, Kylo's experience and knowledge arent nothing compared to Dooku.

Dooku is just on another level. Exactly.

Dooku spent decades as a highly respected Jedi Master before becoming a Sith Lord.

Ren should stick with struggling against untrained initiates and non-force using guards.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I began supporting Kylo. But honestly Kylo just hasnt shown enough.

Furthermore, Kylo's experience and knowledge arent nothing compared to Dooku.

Dooku is just on another level. Nah, he wasn't enough to best Anakin and it won't be enough to beat Kylo. Kylo is younger, more powerful, and too technically sound to lose to Dooku.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Exactly.

Dooku spent decades as a highly respected Jedi Master before becoming a Sith Lord.

Ren should stick with struggling against untrained initiates and non-force using guards. So ? Ben beat Luke who guy who crushed Darth Vader. Ren takes him to school.

Dooku is far superior in force skill and saber combat.

He crushes Ren.

Originally posted by playa1258
Dooku is far superior in force skill and saber combat.

He crushes Ren. He's just overall a cooler character than Kylo.

Originally posted by playa1258
Dooku is far superior in force skill and saber combat.

He crushes Ren. Nah, Anakin stomped him. Luke crushed Anakin. Ben beat Luke. Kylo beats Dooku. Too much power and skill for old man Dooku.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
He's just overall a cooler character than Kylo. See you're a biased fanboy without s shred of objectivity. Your hatred of the new trilogy makes me sick.

Originally posted by quanchi112
See you're a biased fanboy without s shred of objectivity. Your hatred of the new trilogy makes me sick. I don't hate the new trilogy, I just hate the Last Jedi. The Force Awakens was f*cking awesome.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I don't hate the new trilogy, I just hate the Last Jedi. The Force Awakens was f*cking awesome. Ok this film was better than Force Awakens so again we have a difference of opinion but you'll cry I'm biased. You're a dope.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I don't hate the new trilogy, I just hate the Last Jedi. The Force Awakens was f*cking awesome.


F*** no! TFA was just a blatant ANH rip off.

At least Rian Johnson actually had the balls to surprise us.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I don't hate the new trilogy, I just hate the Last Jedi. The Force Awakens was f*cking awesome.



Abrams has A LOT of fixing to do...

Originally posted by Darth Thor
F*** no! TFA was just a blatant ANH rip off.

At least Rian Johnson actually had the balls to surprise us. How did he surprise you exactly?

By making a shitty movie?

Shitty movie with huge parts ripped from V and VI.

Did you get the Hoth vibe from the Crait scene?

I sure did.

Of course I did.

Not to mention the ROTJ one from Snoke's throneroom. Especially when he's showing Rey what's happening with Rebel ships.

The Last Jedi stealing ideas from the OT is not the reason I dislike this movie though.

I know, otherwise we'd have hated TFA as well. Which is clearly not the case here.

Finn and Rose arc was so bad and unnecessary, I stopped paying attention. Broom boy at the end only makes it worse.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nah, he wasn't enough to best Anakin and it won't be enough to beat Kylo. Kylo is younger, more powerful, and too technically sound to lose to Dooku.

By that time Dooku was already old and nothig compared to his prime. Also he was already tired. The War had weakend the Count.

Anakin was a young Jedi with rage in his heart.

Besides Anakin is WAYYYYY better than Kylo.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Exactly.

Dooku spent decades as a highly respected Jedi Master before becoming a Sith Lord.

Ren should stick with struggling against untrained initiates and non-force using guards.

Yeah.

He was a Veteran Jedi. His knowledge and experience was way high when Sidious took him.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
By that time Dooku was already old and nothig compared to his prime. Also he was already tired. The War had weakend the Count.

Anakin was a young Jedi with rage in his heart.

Besides Anakin is WAYYYYY better than Kylo.



Yeah.

He was a Veteran Jedi. His knowledge and experience was way high when Sidious took him. He gets tired quickly doesn't bode well against Kylo who is younger and can tank a bowcaster before two duels


Kylo is young and has rage in his heart. I agree.

Nah, Ben beat Vader.

Dooku isn't the powerhouse Kylo has ever been.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
By that time Dooku was already old and nothig compared to his prime. Also he was already tired. The War had weakend the Count.

Anakin was a young Jedi with rage in his heart.

I don't know if Dooku was weakened, but we do know that ---

Anakin was still discovering his true potential, having his powers doubled in very short time before facing Dooku in RotS

Dooku already spent a good portion of his energy on quickly and effectively subduing Obi-Wan

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I don't know if Dooku was weakened, but we do know that ---

Anakin was still discovering his true potential, having his powers doubled in very short time before facing Dooku in RotS

Dooku already spent a good portion of his energy on quickly and effectively subduing Obi-Wan

The ROTS happened 2-3 years after the beginning of the CWs.

When Dooku defeated both Obi and Anakin he was already old.

When he faced Anakin in ROTS, Dooku was even older and deteriorated by the war.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The ROTS happened 2-3 years after the beginning of the CWs.

When Dooku defeated both Obi and Anakin he was already old.

When he faced Anakin in ROTS, Dooku was even older and deteriorated by the war.

3 years is not much, Dooku stayed in perfect shape despite of it... where was it stated that it affected him? He was nothing like ANH Kenobi.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
3 years is not much, Dooku stayed in perfect shape despite of it... where was it stated that it affected him? He was nothing like ANH Kenobi.

Dooku was getting older where as Anakin was getting stronger.

He was 80 something when Anakin defeated him.

3 years of war can be deteriorating.

You can notice the difference from a 78 years old man and a 81 years old one.