Ozymandias vs. Black Panther

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carthage
Same circumstances Bucky faced on the stair fight
Tchalla doesn't have his suit

Who wins

Impediment
No suit?

Ozymandias stomps.

Juk3n
If we assume BP has durability, endurance on par with Bucky and Cap, he wins eventually.

I make this assumption based on him having the same foot and combat speed.

FrothByte
My initial instinct is to say Ozy, but then I remembered that Ozy was never tested against a enhanced/superpowered opponent.

relentless1
Panther wins; hes Cap level and Ozy is a step below that

John Murdoch
T'Challa had Bucky on the run in a suit and dress shoes. My vote is with Panther in a hard fight.

TheVaultDweller
Tough one. T'Challa has limited feats without his suit, but Ozy's only fought people below Super Soldier level. I'd be inclined to back T'Challa, because the guy took an explosion and a metal arm haymaker from Bucky without serious injury, so Ozy will struggle to put him down. It'd be a good fight though.

BruceSkywalker
Ozy loses after a tough fight

Khazra Reborn
Originally posted by John Murdoch
T'Challa had Bucky on the run in a suit and dress shoes. My vote is with Panther in a hard fight.

T'Challa didn't have Bucky on the run, he was brain washed in Winter Soldier mode, T'Challa had nothing to do with Bucky trying to escape.

Regardless, BP still wins.

Arachnid1
Originally posted by Impediment
No suit?

Ozymandias stomps. Agreed. Panther doesn't have much chance without the suit.

FrothByte
Something to consider: T'Challa took a direct punch to the chest from Bucky's robo arm and it didn't do any lasting damage on him. That arm is strong enough to punch cracks in the street. I don't think Ozy can match that kind of strength output. He might not be strong enough to take down T'Challa.

Silent Master
What's with the resurgence of Ozy love, last I checked board consensus was that he was a solid step below Captain America level.

h1a8
Originally posted by FrothByte
My initial instinct is to say Ozy, but then I remembered that Ozy was never tested against a enhanced/superpowered opponent. catching a bullet seals the deal. Adding in superhuman level strength makes this a stomp.

h1a8

h1a8

FrothByte
^ Tony got punched by Bucky's human arm and was floored.

h1a8
Originally posted by FrothByte
^ Tony got punched by Bucky's human arm and was floored.

I know. But Bucky is supposedly superhuman right? Almost equal to Cap in physical stats.

Silent Master

FrothByte
Originally posted by h1a8
I know. But Bucky is supposedly superhuman right? Almost equal to Cap in physical stats.

And that's why Tony got floored. Regular humans won't get floored from a punch to the chest even from a trained heavyweight if they're actively fighting back. It can hurt, and there's even a chance that it can damage your heart, but you're not getting floored like that.

And considering that Tony has some degree of h2h training, that punch made it obvious that WS was superhuman in strength.

KingD19
Also Bucky was clearly trying to escape in that scene. If he'd hit Tony like he hit the containment unit, or as hard as he's hit Cap, Tony would be dead. So would WIdow and 13.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Impediment
No suit?

Ozymandias stomps.

thumb up

tkitna
Originally posted by Silent Master
Yea. but given your level of bias. nobody cares what you think.

laughing

h1a8
Originally posted by FrothByte
And that's why Tony got floored. Regular humans won't get floored from a punch to the chest even from a trained heavyweight if they're actively fighting back. It can hurt, and there's even a chance that it can damage your heart, but you're not getting floored like that.

And considering that Tony has some degree of h2h training, that punch made it obvious that WS was superhuman in strength. But Tony suffered nothing broken. He was elbowed in the face with full force and barely moved. This clearly contradicts Bucky being nearly equal to Cap in the strength department. Bruce Lee has floored humans with a 1 inch punch.


Tony has very little to no h2h training. He's an ordinary human for the most part.

Silent Master
Thank you for proving you've never seen the movies.

dadudemon
Originally posted by h1a8
But Tony suffered nothing broken. He was elbowed in the face with full force and barely moved. This clearly contradicts Bucky being nearly equal to Cap in the strength department. Bruce Lee has floored humans with a 1 inch punch.


Tony has very little to no h2h training. He's an ordinary human for the most part.


Tony Stark has been enhanced with super human nanotech and his skin is impervious to low caliber bullets.

FrothByte
Originally posted by h1a8
But Tony suffered nothing broken. He was elbowed in the face with full force and barely moved. This clearly contradicts Bucky being nearly equal to Cap in the strength department. Bruce Lee has floored humans with a 1 inch punch.


Tony has very little to no h2h training. He's an ordinary human for the most part.

You obviously haven't watched IM2. And Bruce Lee? Seriously? How many fighting opponents has Bruce Lee floored with a single punch to the chest? I think you're confusing the man with his movie roles.

dadudemon
Originally posted by FrothByte
You obviously haven't watched IM2. And Bruce Lee? Seriously? How many fighting opponents has Bruce Lee floored with a single punch to the chest? I think you're confusing the man with his movie roles.

He used to demo his 1 inch punch to large crowds.

It was more like 3 inches.


I decided to test Bruce Lee's one inch punch out. So I went back in time to 1972, and asked him to show me. Right when he went to punch (at the first movement I saw from his fist), I slapped his face, put some coins in his other hand just so I could take them out to prove how much better I was than Bruce Lee, then I smacked his left buttock all before I went back to the original position to block his fist.

He looked right into my eyes, with utter shock. I just smirked right back at him for about 5 awkward seconds. Then I made the classic monkey "ooooooooooo!" sound that Bruce Lee usually does. Then he relaxed his face and faintly smiled and said, "awww, I see. You are a martial artist as well. I wasn't certain until you made the monkey sound."

TheVaultDweller
Tony was injured after that encounter. He had visible bruising around the one eye, and his arm was in a sling (he still told BW that it was numb after the fight).

And this whole discussion is a pointless derailment. After the elbow, Tony took a human arm punch to the chest that sent him sailing back and put him down for the rest of the fight. T'Challa took an elbow and then an actual metal arm haymaker to the chest and was back on his feet and in pursuit in seconds.

h1a8
Originally posted by FrothByte
You obviously haven't watched IM2. And Bruce Lee? Seriously? How many fighting opponents has Bruce Lee floored with a single punch to the chest? I think you're confusing the man with his movie roles.


Bruce demonstrated it many times.
My kung-fu master was able to do it. He floored me with the 1 inch punch.
I did see the movie. Explain what's the relevance of that movie to what we are talking about.

h1a8
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Tony was injured after that encounter. He had visible bruising around the one eye, and his arm was in a sling (he still told BW that it was numb after the fight).

And this whole discussion is a pointless derailment. After the elbow, Tony took a human arm punch to the chest that sent him sailing back and put him down for the rest of the fight. T'Challa took an elbow and then an actual metal arm haymaker to the chest and was back on his feet and in pursuit in seconds.
According to you guys, An elbow to the face by someone of Cap's strength should not only break bones but kill a human (let alone ko them). The strike that floored Tony should have killed him too (if we assume Bucky is near Cap in strength and we use Cap's top strength feats like you guys like to do).

FrothByte
Originally posted by h1a8
Bruce demonstrated it many times.
My kung-fu master was able to do it. He floored me with the 1 inch punch.
I did see the movie. Explain what's the relevance of that movie to what we are talking about.

Yeah, he demonstrated it against people who were simply standing up, not fighting him. And it sat people down, it didn't throw people across the floor like Bucky's punch did to Tony.

IM2 showed Tony training, and showed it in a way that implies he does it regularly

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by h1a8
According to you guys, An elbow to the face by someone of Cap's strength should not only break bones but kill a human (let alone ko them). The strike that floored Tony should have killed him too (if we assume Bucky is near Cap in strength and we use Cap's top strength feats like you guys like to do).

A. GTFO with that "you guys" shit. You do it more than any of the people you accuse of doing so.

B. Again, completely irrelevant discussion to the current topic, as Tony did not take a metal arm hit, like T'Challa did. Continuing to go on about it after it's already been addressed can be considered trolling and intentional thread derailment.

Silent Master
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah, he demonstrated it against people who were simply standing up, not fighting him. And it sat people down, it didn't throw people across the floor like Bucky's punch did to Tony.

IM2 showed Tony training, and showed it in a way that implies he does it regularly

Isn't it odd how h1's memory lapses always seem to favor his side of a debate?

h1a8
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
A. GTFO with that "you guys" shit. You do it more than any of the people you accuse of doing so.

B. Again, completely irrelevant discussion to the current topic, as Tony did not take a metal arm hit, like T'Challa did. Continuing to go on about it after it's already been addressed can be considered trolling and intentional thread derailment.

It is extremely relevant. My point is that movies don't use real physics when it comes to humans surviving or tanking shit. Look at my Tony example. Movie humans have survived some impossible shit without being enhanced (per the story). A human with good fighting skills (but with normal human durability) can easily tank Bucky's metal arm without much damage in a movie. So that "he tanked a metal arm" argument does not hold much evidence towards anything given how movies operate with humans in general.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah, he demonstrated it against people who were simply standing up, not fighting him. And it sat people down, it didn't throw people across the floor like Bucky's punch did to Tony.

IM2 showed Tony training, and showed it in a way that implies he does it regularly Tony showed almost 0 h2h ability. Wth are you talking about? He used gadgets and surprise. Nothing in the movie suggests that Tony should be above a human in durability.

Robtard
Going with Ozy in this one, he's going to slowly pick apart T'Challa.

But Ozy's going to have to work for it, so he'll probably not have as casual a conversation as he did with Owl and Rors.

Silent Master
@h1

IOW if it hurts your argument, you just dismiss it by saying "that's how movies work". however if it helps your argument, you have no problems accepting it.

dadudemon
Originally posted by h1a8
It is extremely relevant. My point is that movies don't use real physics when it comes to humans surviving or tanking shit. Look at my Tony example. Movie humans have survived some impossible shit without being enhanced (per the story). A human with good fighting skills (but with normal human durability) can easily tank Bucky's metal arm without much damage in a movie. So that "he tanked a metal arm" argument does not hold much evidence towards anything given how movies operate with humans in general.

Tony showed almost 0 h2h ability. Wth are you talking about? He used gadgets and surprise. Nothing in the movie suggests that Tony should be above a human in durability.

I've already responded to that point regarding the human body, physics, and the punches:


Originally posted by dadudemon
He used to demo his 1 inch punch to large crowds.

It was more like 3 inches.


I decided to test Bruce Lee's one inch punch out. So I went back in time to 1972, and asked him to show me. Right when he went to punch (at the first movement I saw from his fist), I slapped his face, put some coins in his other hand just so I could take them out to prove how much better I was than Bruce Lee, then I smacked his left buttock all before I went back to the original position to block his fist.

He looked right into my eyes, with utter shock. I just smirked right back at him for about 5 awkward seconds. Then I made the classic monkey "ooooooooooo!" sound that Bruce Lee usually does. Then he relaxed his face and faintly smiled and said, "awww, I see. You are a martial artist as well. I wasn't certain until you made the monkey sound."

FrothByte
Originally posted by h1a8

Tony showed almost 0 h2h ability. Wth are you talking about? He used gadgets and surprise. Nothing in the movie suggests that Tony should be above a human in durability.

Watch the movie again. It's the scene where Hogan is training with Tony. Tony's durability is a red herring, it's not what's being discussed here. The fact that a straight punch from Bucky launched a grown man across the floor proves that Bucky has super strength. The fact that his robo arm can punch through walls, shatter concrete, block bullets and overpower Captain America is proof that his robo arm is even more powerful.

T'Challa took a direct shot from that robo arm and got right back up. There's no proof that Ozy hits as hard as that robo arm, therefore we know T'Challa has a pretty good chance of tanking Ozy's hits.

Those are the facts.

h1a8
Originally posted by FrothByte
Watch the movie again. It's the scene where Hogan is training with Tony. Tony's durability is a red herring, it's not what's being discussed here. The fact that a straight punch from Bucky launched a grown man across the floor proves that Bucky has super strength. The fact that his robo arm can punch through walls, shatter concrete, block bullets and overpower Captain America is proof that his robo arm is even more powerful.

T'Challa took a direct shot from that robo arm and got right back up. There's no proof that Ozy hits as hard as that robo arm, therefore we know T'Challa has a pretty good chance of tanking Ozy's hits.

Those are the facts.

Durability is not a red herring since your argument stems from the metal arm striking TChalla and not damaging him a lot (or any) in order to show Ozy not doing much damage (if any) to him.

Hitting someone across the room is the red herring since the argument is about damage, not how far someone is hit. If the metal arm would have sent TChalla flying across the room but still no damage then your argument would remain the same (no damage to prove durability).

Rage.Of.Olympus
What? Bucky struck T'Challa with his metal arm and he bounced back. Why is that not acceptable evidence that he could easily tank Ozymandias' hits?

Silent Master
If I were a cynical person I would say that H1 can't accept that a black man would defeat a white person, therefore he is massively low-balling Black Panther's feats.

FrothByte
Originally posted by h1a8
Durability is not a red herring since your argument stems from the metal arm striking TChalla and not damaging him a lot (or any) in order to show Ozy not doing much damage (if any) to him.

Hitting someone across the room is the red herring since the argument is about damage, not how far someone is hit. If the metal arm would have sent TChalla flying across the room but still no damage then your argument would remain the same (no damage to prove durability).

T'Challa's durability is not a red herring but Tony's durbality is. Tony's durability does not change the fact that WS displayed superhuman strength, especially with his robo arm. Tchall got hit with that arm and got back up.

Admit it, you're trying to derail the thread by focusing on Tony (when he has absolutely nothing to do with this thread). If you weren't then you'd focus on things that directly impacted T'Challa or Ozy.

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by h1a8
It is extremely relevant. My point is that movies don't use real physics when it comes to humans surviving or tanking shit. Look at my Tony example. Movie humans have survived some impossible shit without being enhanced (per the story). A human with good fighting skills (but with normal human durability) can easily tank Bucky's metal arm without much damage in a movie. So that "he tanked a metal arm" argument does not hold much evidence towards anything given how movies operate with humans in general.

You're trying to assign one guy's feats to another, all in an attempt to downplay and dismiss feats. Yet you will dick-ride any feats that favour characters you like (like Baleman KO'ing some random nobody with a backarm strike, for example, which you went on about for several posts in the Bane vs WS thread).

Tony got taken out by Bucky's HUMAN arm. This clearly proves that he would not be able to tank a hit from Bucky's much stronger METAL arm. T'Challa tanked the metal arm. Metal arm >>> Human Arm (even Steve's). So, no, it is not comparable or relevant. But hey, seeing as you made the claim, prove it. Post a clip of a human in the MCU tanking a metal arm hit from Bucky. Unless you do, you are spouting nothing but your personal opinion.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? Bucky struck T'Challa with his metal arm and he bounced back. Why is that not acceptable evidence that he could easily tank Ozymandias' hits?

H1A8 is massively biased and will go to great lengths to lowball any feats he doesn't like, while wanking any feats that favour his side.

Rorschach taking a kick to the head from Ozy, "He is SUPER DURABLE!!!"
Black Panther tanks a metal arm hit from Bucky, "It doesn't count cuz movie physics."
-H1A8

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by FrothByte
T'Challa's durability is not a red herring but Tony's durbality is. Tony's durability does not change the fact that WS displayed superhuman strength, especially with his robo arm. Tchall got hit with that arm and got back up.

Admit it, you're trying to derail the thread by focusing on Tony (when he has absolutely nothing to do with this thread). If you weren't then you'd focus on things that directly impacted T'Challa or Ozy.

This. He is just trying to derail things.

Tony's durability has zero bearing on T'Challa tanking a hit from the metal arm.

h1a8
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? Bucky struck T'Challa with his metal arm and he bounced back. Why is that not acceptable evidence that he could easily tank Ozymandias' hits?

It depends on what you mean by tank. Tony tanked a full powered elbow to the face from someone with near Cap strength (according to you guys) without being koed or something broken. Does that mean Tony has superhuman durability? Or is it movie physics? It's all about what the WRITER IS TRYING TO SHOW. Anything else leads to contradictions.

With that said, I don't see the writer trying to portray T'Challa with superhuman durability no more than they were trying to portray Tony with superhuman durability. I believe any highly skilled (but human in physicality) human would have been portrayed to take a shot from the metal arm or even Cap himself. But not many.

h1a8
Originally posted by FrothByte
T'Challa's durability is not a red herring but Tony's durbality is. Tony's durability does not change the fact that WS displayed superhuman strength, especially with his robo arm. Tchall got hit with that arm and got back up.

So did Tony. Does that mean anything? It's about what the writer is trying to show.



I'm not. I'm just pointing out how movies work. Other wise you would get a bunch of nonsense contradictions. It's all about what the writer is trying to show.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by h1a8
It depends on what you mean by tank. Tony tanked a full powered elbow to the face from someone with near Cap strength (according to you guys) without being koed or something broken. Does that mean Tony has superhuman durability? Or is it movie physics? It's all about what the WRITER IS TRYING TO SHOW. Anything else leads to contradictions.

With that said, I don't see the writer trying to portray T'Challa with superhuman durability no more than they were trying to portray Tony with superhuman durability. I believe any highly skilled (but human in physicality) human would have been portrayed to take a shot from the metal arm or even Cap himself. But not many.

That's false and if you want to focus on what the director's were trying to portray, then it's very evident that they intended to showcase that Black Panther was superhuman in the same tier as Steve and Bucky.

They showed consistently through that movie that his metal arm was vastly superhuman. This was proven by him punching through the cage, punching Steve through the elevator doors etc. By far the lowest showing of the arm is Spider-Man being able to catch his hit. That's the most questionable showing, being weaker than someone who can probably lift a bus.

Whether Iron Man is superhuman or not is a completely separate point and takes nothing away from Black Panther bouncing back up from Bucky's hit. T'Challa took Bucky's metal arm to the chest far better than Tony took Bucky's human arm to the chest. This indicates the vast difference in stats between him and a human being.

FrothByte
Originally posted by h1a8
So did Tony. Does that mean anything? It's about what the writer is trying to show.



I'm not. I'm just pointing out how movies work. Other wise you would get a bunch of nonsense contradictions. It's all about what the writer is trying to show.

Tony never got hit with WS's robotic arm. T'Challa was hit with WS's robotic arm. Do you understand now or are you going to continue to troll?

Silent Master
Ladies and gentlemen, an example of h1's logic

1) Human survives getting hit by Ozy = OMG they have superhuman durability

2) Human survives getting hit by WS = they have normal human durability, that's just how movies work.

TheVaultDweller
The guy is literally trying to use a completely different character, taking a much less powerful attack in a worse way than T'Challa did, to try and dismiss a perfectly valid durability feat for him, and acting like everyone else is being unreasonable for not going along with it.

And, once again, it's his BS inconsistency/contradictions argument which he only ever applies to the side he is arguing against (while not only using one off feats, like the Ozy bullet catch, Bane pillar punch, Batman backhand, non-combat high-ends for Miyagi etc., but also his personal speculation, like what being part of LoS would imply) for the characters he supports. Also, I love how his fiction inconsistency argument is not simply ALWAYS aimed at characters he is against, but it ALWAYS means that a feat for a character he is arguing against will apparently be weaker than it appears to everyone else. He has never once used that line of reasoning to argue something might be more powerful in an instance where a character/characters he is against is concerned.

He is one of the absolute worst hypocrites and trolls on this site, but he will never acknowledge it. And I love how he is trying his Writer's Intent BS here, yet again, when behind the scenes interviews with the Russos and the like contain bits where they specifically reference that unarmored fight scene (where T'Challa takes the metal arm haymaker) as a means of showing Black Panther is superhuman. So, his claim of Writer's Intent actually contradicts the people who made CA:CW.

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's false and if you want to focus on what the director's were trying to portray, then it's very evident that they intended to showcase that Black Panther was superhuman in the same tier as Steve and Bucky.

They showed consistently through that movie that his metal arm was vastly superhuman. This was proven by him punching through the cage, punching Steve through the elevator doors etc. By far the lowest showing of the arm is Spider-Man being able to catch his hit. That's the most questionable showing, being weaker than someone who can probably lift a bus.

Whether Iron Man is superhuman or not is a completely separate point and takes nothing away from Black Panther bouncing back up from Bucky's hit. T'Challa took Bucky's metal arm to the chest far better than Tony took Bucky's human arm to the chest. This indicates the vast difference in stats between him and a human being.

thumb up

h1a8
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's false and if you want to focus on what the director's were trying to portray, then it's very evident that they intended to showcase that Black Panther was superhuman in the same tier as Steve and Bucky.

They showed consistently through that movie that his metal arm was vastly superhuman. This was proven by him punching through the cage, punching Steve through the elevator doors etc. By far the lowest showing of the arm is Spider-Man being able to catch his hit. That's the most questionable showing, being weaker than someone who can probably lift a bus.

Whether Iron Man is superhuman or not is a completely separate point and takes nothing away from Black Panther bouncing back up from Bucky's hit. T'Challa took Bucky's metal arm to the chest far better than Tony took Bucky's human arm to the chest. This indicates the vast difference in stats between him and a human being.

Why was Tony able to tank a full elbow strike from Bucky?
It's not separate. Wasn't Bucky consistently shown to be superhuman and Cap's physical peer? Tony's face should have broken. Humans, in movies, have always tanked shit that no real human could. This is just how movies work. So the Tony showing TAKES AWAY from the T'Challa feat. It's still a good showing, just below what you are making it.

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
Why was Tony able to tank a full elbow strike from Bucky?
It's not separate. Wasn't Bucky consistently shown to be superhuman and Cap's physical peer? Tony's face should have broken. Humans, in movies, have always tanked shit that no real human could. This is just how movies work. So the Tony showing TAKES AWAY from the T'Challa feat. It's still a good showing, just below what you are making it.

Does your standard also apply to those that survived Ozy's attacks?

FrothByte
Originally posted by h1a8
Why was Tony able to tank a full elbow strike from Bucky?
It's not separate. Wasn't Bucky consistently shown to be superhuman and Cap's physical peer? Tony's face should have broken. Humans, in movies, have always tanked shit that no real human could. This is just how movies work. So the Tony showing TAKES AWAY from the T'Challa feat. It's still a good showing, just below what you are making it.

See what did I tell you? Red herring. You keep including Tony in this thread even though he has nothing to do with it.

WS was brought into this thread to showcase TChalla's durability since he tanked a punch from WS's robotic arm, an arm that has always been consistently shown to be of superhuman strength.

Tony was never punched with that robotic arm, therefore he has nothing to do with this thread. Stop derailing it.

h1a8

Silent Master
Ozy is too weak to hurt BP.

FrothByte
If we were to use your logic, we could therefore say that Ozy is pretty weak since he was unable to snap the neck of a man lying nearly prone even with a full strength kick to the neck. Heck, he wasn't even able to KO him. Most adult men with decent martial arts training could at least cripple someone with a kick like that if not outright kill them.

So using your logic, we know that Ozy is actually weaker than a decent martial artist in the real world, and is way too weak to hurt BP.

FrothByte
^ Edit: Full strength kick to the head. Not neck.

Adam Grimes
Black Panther obvs

Surtur
Originally posted by FrothByte
My initial instinct is to say Ozy, but then I remembered that Ozy was never tested against a enhanced/superpowered opponent.

Eh, wasn't he though? For the purposes of the story everyone is human and has no powers, save for Doc M. Yet...the people Ozy stomps in the movie are kinda like Batman, in the sense that they are supposed to be normal humans, but they do things no real world person could do.

I'm not saying the people he beat were Cap level, but they sure did seem above real world humans.

FrothByte
Originally posted by Surtur
Eh, wasn't he though? For the purposes of the story everyone is human and has no powers, save for Doc M. Yet...the people Ozy stomps in the movie are kinda like Batman, in the sense that they are supposed to be normal humans, but they do things no real world person could do.

I'm not saying the people he beat were Cap level, but they sure did seem above real world humans.

They were at about the level of high-end fighters like Black Widow or Daredevil. And we saw how easily WS took out BW. He took out BW far easier than Ozy took out Comedian.

And in the end, Comedian, Night Owl and Rosch are just that: high end humans. They are not enhanced like Cap or Bucky - both of whom were people TChalla fought against. He even got the upper hand against Bucky. And that's the point I was trying to make: Ozy has never been tested against an opponent of superhuman stats who was near his equal. It's easy to look good when you're so much more physically superior to your opponent.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Surtur
Eh, wasn't he though? For the purposes of the story everyone is human and has no powers, save for Doc M. Yet...the people Ozy stomps in the movie are kinda like Batman, in the sense that they are supposed to be normal humans, but they do things no real world person could do.

I'm not saying the people he beat were Cap level, but they sure did seem above real world humans.

They only ever beat low-end fodder. Ozy beating them isn't really that impressive.

Stigma
Ozy is quite a bit faster, it seems. At least in reaction time.

Not sure how to compate their physical stats, though.

Robtard
BP is seemingly betting a power-boost in his solo film, so this thread should be revisited after that.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Stigma
Ozy is quite a bit faster, it seems. At least in reaction time.

Not sure how to compate their physical stats, though.

In what hth fight did Ozy use his so-called superior speed?

Stigma
Well, he does have that bullet catching feat. So clearly he has somewhat super speed, at least in reaction time.

He was casually owning Nite Owl and Rorschach but was never pressed to use it, it seems.

KingD19
Bucky blocked bullets with his arm from assault rifles. He did what Ozy did but way better. Panther had him on the ropes.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Stigma
Well, he does have that bullet catching feat. So clearly he has somewhat super speed, at least in reaction time.

He was casually owning Nite Owl and Rorschach but was never pressed to use it, it seems.

The bullet catch feat was a one off that happened outside of combat, plus he had plenty of time to prepare and knew where it was aimed.

He didn't show any impressive speed in that fight. in fact his speed seemed to be well below BP's fighting speed.

steverules_2
Hard to say

FrothByte
DC is ridiculously inconsistent when displaying speed feats. This is true for the DCEU, pre-DCEU movies, even in their CW series.

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
The bullet catch feat was a one off that happened outside of combat, plus he had plenty of time to prepare and knew where it was aimed.

He didn't show any impressive speed in that fight. in fact his speed seemed to be well below BP's fighting speed.

Preparation and knowing where the gun is aimed doesn't help catch a bullet without superhuman hand speed and visual perception of the bullet in flight.

In his fight against Note Owl and Rorshach, Ozy casually blocked and parried everything thrown at him. Plus it's way harder defending against two than one. T'Challa got tagged by Bucky.

These facts suggest that Ozy is significantly faster than T'Challa in hand speed and perception speed.

Originally posted by KingD19
Bucky blocked bullets with his arm from assault rifles. He did what Ozy did but way better. Panther had him on the ropes. Holding an arm up to block bullets only takes human level reactions. Bucky never reacted to the bullet after it entered the air.

KingD19
Originally posted by h1a8
Preparation and knowing where the gun is aimed doesn't help catch a bullet without superhuman hand speed and visual perception of the bullet in flight.

In his fight against Note Owl and Rorshach, Ozy casually blocked and parried everything thrown at him. Plus it's way harder defending against two than one. T'Challa got tagged by Bucky.

These facts suggest that Ozy is significantly faster than T'Challa in hand speed and perception speed.

Holding an arm up to block bullets only takes human level reactions. Bucky never reacted to the bullet after it entered the air.

Let the downplaying of everyone else and wanking of Ozy begin.

Silent Master
You heard it here first folks, H1 doesn't believe that having time to prepare and knowing something's course would help you catch it.

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
You heard it here first folks, H1 doesn't believe that having time to prepare and knowing something's course would help you catch it.

It won't help a human one bit. A human cannot perceive the flight of a bullet.
Even if the human knows the exact moment that the bullet will be fired and the exact trajectory then they still will be helplessly frozen in time when the bullet enters the air AND they won't be able to follow it (or even see it) during the entire flight.

Therefore Ozy had to have superhuman perception and hand speed to achieve the feat.

Silent Master
Yes or no, did having time to prepare and knowing its trajectory help in the catch?

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
Yes or no, did having time to prepare and knowing its trajectory help in the catch?

Trolling and derailing the thread?
The bullet catch proves that Ozy has superhuman hand speed and perception. That's the whole point.

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
Trolling and derailing the thread?
The bullet catch proves that Ozy has superhuman hand speed and perception. That's the whole point.

Discussing a feat is not derailing a thread. Now answer the question.

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
Discussing a feat is not derailing a thread. Now answer the question.

Originally posted by h1a8
It won't help a human one bit. A human cannot perceive the flight of a bullet.
Even if the human knows the exact moment that the bullet will be fired and the exact trajectory then they still will be helplessly frozen in time when the bullet enters the air AND they won't be able to follow it (or even see it) during the entire flight.

Therefore Ozy had to have superhuman perception and hand speed to achieve the feat.

Silent Master
Since you seem to have forgotten what the question was, I'll repeat it.

Yes or no, did having time to prepare and knowing its trajectory help in the catch?

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
Since you seem to have forgotten what the question was, I'll repeat it.

Yes or no, did having time to prepare and knowing its trajectory help in the catch? Trolling again. You and I both know it's irrelevant to this thread.

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
Trolling again. You and I both know it's irrelevant to this thread.

It's very relevant to the thread, now answer the question.

h1a8
No it's not. The question doesn't disprove that Ozy used superhuman hand speed and perceptions to achieve the feat (which is the entire argument)

FrothByte
Originally posted by FrothByte
If we were to use your logic, we could therefore say that Ozy is pretty weak since he was unable to snap the neck of a man lying nearly prone even with a full strength kick to the head.. Heck, he wasn't even able to KO him. Most adult men with decent martial arts training could at least cripple someone with a kick like that if not outright kill them.

So using your logic, we know that Ozy is actually weaker than a decent martial artist in the real world, and is way too weak to hurt BP.

I see H1 never addressed this.

h1a8
Originally posted by FrothByte
I see H1 never addressed this.

Or that those humans have superhuman durability since the distance they traveled proves the level of force operated on them.

FrothByte
Originally posted by h1a8
Or that those humans have superhuman durability since the distance they traveled proves the level of force operated on them.

Which means, using your logic, that Tony also has superhuman durability.

Surtur
Originally posted by FrothByte
They were at about the level of high-end fighters like Black Widow or Daredevil. And we saw how easily WS took out BW. He took out BW far easier than Ozy took out Comedian.

And in the end, Comedian, Night Owl and Rosch are just that: high end humans. They are not enhanced like Cap or Bucky - both of whom were people TChalla fought against. He even got the upper hand against Bucky. And that's the point I was trying to make: Ozy has never been tested against an opponent of superhuman stats who was near his equal. It's easy to look good when you're so much more physically superior to your opponent.

I'm not necessarily saying Ozy, wins, I just think he has come up against people who are technically superhuman. Since DD and BW do things normal folk can't, and you acknowledged he beat people on their level.

Surtur
Originally posted by h1a8
Trolling again. You and I both know it's irrelevant to this thread.

Just stop. The feat is impressive. It just is not as impressive as you want it to be.

FrothByte
Originally posted by Surtur
I'm not necessarily saying Ozy, wins, I just think he has come up against people who are technically superhuman. Since DD and BW do things normal folk can't, and you acknowledged he beat people on their level.

It Doesn't really matter what label we give them, whether superhuman or high end human or whatever. Point is that they're quite some ways below the physical stats of guys like Cap, Ozy and TChalla.

If we were to consider that Rosch and NightOwl are of similar stats to BW then just remember that Bucky dealt with BW far more easily than Ozy did any of his teammates.

Bottom line is, Tchalla actually went up against opponents of similar physical stats to himself whereas Ozy only beat up opponents inferior to himself.

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
No it's not. The question doesn't disprove that Ozy used superhuman hand speed and perceptions to achieve the feat (which is the entire argument)

Yes it is and the fact that you refuse to answer proves that you know that it's relevant to the debate and that the answer would hurt your overall argument that Ozy wins.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Surtur
Just stop. The feat is impressive. It just is not as impressive as you want it to be.

It's funny and a bit sad watching him argue that the context of a feat isn't relevant to a vs thread. he also loves to throw around ad hominems.

Inhuman
All that Ozy supporters have is the the bullet catch thing , that others have already pointed out was a calculated feat that he had time to anticipate. Ozy's reaction times are impressive, but so are the super soldiers.
Bucky (a peer) to BP, has blocked bullets with his arm and also flipped out the way of gun fire from bullets that traveled much faster than the one that Ozy caught.
Also after said bullet feats Bucky wasnt floored for a minute like Ozy was.

Ozy beat up on the other watchmen whos greatest feat in the movies was beating up prisoners. Super soldiers in the films have fought the likes of IronMan, Ultron, Ultron bots, Chitairi, Top shield agents , other avengers, etc.

And its still funny that their are dozens and dozens of feats from people like Cap, WS, and BP and only 1 feat that is mentioned from OZY from the people giving him the win against the super soldiers tier guys. erm

Arachnid1
Originally posted by Inhuman
All that Ozy supporters have is the the bullet catch thing , that others have already pointed out was a calculated feat that he had time to anticipate. Ozy's reaction times are impressive, but so are the super soldiers.
Bucky (a peer) to BP, has blocked bullets with his arm and also flipped out the way of gun fire from bullets that traveled much faster than the one that Ozy caught.
Also after said bullet feats Bucky wasnt floored for a minute like Ozy was.

Ozy beat up on the other watchmen whos greatest feat in the movies was beating up prisoners. Super soldiers in the films have fought the likes of IronMan, Ultron, Ultron bots, Chitairi, Top shield agents , other avengers, etc.

And its still funny that their are dozens and dozens of feats from people like Cap, WS, and BP and only 1 feat that is mentioned from OZY from the people giving him the win against the super soldiers tier guys. erm Bucky's was more aim blocking/dodging like Ozy did in that elevator scene. Ozy flat out moved after the bullet was shot from a neutral position with his arms at his sides. That at least means he moved as fast as that bullet, and he had to see the trajectory to actually pull that off. That gives him a comfortable speed edge. Silk Spectre took him by surprise after he already won the fight and was retreating. He turned around with a pretty clear look of surprise, she said a line, and shot him. There's was nothing to suggest he calculated anything. People are just trying to find ways to downplay his feat, and it's a damn good feat IMO

Inhuman
It was a good feat, but Bucky flipping out the way of automatic rifle gun fire was too.
The point is that the speed difference wont automatically give one a win over the other. That's when the other factors come in like strength, durability, stamina, etc.
And that is where Ozy is outclassed.

h1a8
Originally posted by Inhuman
It was a good feat, but Bucky flipping out the way of automatic rifle gun fire was too.
The point is that the speed difference wont automatically give one a win over the other. That's when the other factors come in like strength, durability, stamina, etc.
And that is where Ozy is outclassed.

Bucky flipping out of the way is just aim dodging. He didn't dodge a bullet headed towards him after it entered the air. The speed difference is huge here. Ozy is significantly more skilled than Bucky and probably stronger.

h1a8
Originally posted by FrothByte
It Doesn't really matter what label we give them, whether superhuman or high end human or whatever. Point is that they're quite some ways below the physical stats of guys like Cap, Ozy and TChalla.

If we were to consider that Rosch and NightOwl are of similar stats to BW then just remember that Bucky dealt with BW far more easily than Ozy did any of his teammates.

Bottom line is, Tchalla actually went up against opponents of similar physical stats to himself whereas Ozy only beat up opponents inferior to himself. If Cap is a class 3 then how can anyone superhuman be far away from him? BW is fairly weak. She's just a woman with the strength of a man.

Bucky vs. BW is irrelevant since they did not have a standard fight (which correctly gauges the relation of the two).

Nite Owl = Bucky in physicality (if not greater). Nite Owl can fight much better too.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Which means, using your logic, that Tony also has superhuman durability. No he doesn't. Buck's strength was human level at the time. Otherwise, Tony's face should have been broken and Tony should have been knocked far away.

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
Yes it is and the fact that you refuse to answer proves that you know that it's relevant to the debate and that the answer would hurt your overall argument that Ozy wins.

You know that Ozy had to used superhuman speed and perceptions to achieve the feat. Anything other than that is trolling the thread.
If you disagree that Ozy used superhuman speed and perceptions then say so.

FrothByte
Originally posted by h1a8
If Cap is a class 3 then how can anyone superhuman be far away from him? BW is fairly weak. She's just a woman with the strength of a man.

Bucky vs. BW is irrelevant since they did not have a standard fight (which correctly gauges the relation of the two).

Nite Owl = Bucky in physicality (if not greater). Nite Owl can fight much better too.

No he doesn't. Buck's strength was human level at the time. Otherwise, Tony's face should have been broken and Tony should have been knocked far away.

What a load of BS. Nite Owl = Bucky? Sure. Remind me again when Nite Owl has been able to break concrete with a punch?

Anyway, you're obviously trolling. It's a waste of time to continue replying to you.

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
You know that Ozy had to used superhuman speed and perceptions to achieve the feat. Anything other than that is trolling the thread.
If you disagree that Ozy used superhuman speed and perceptions then say so.

Did having time to prepare and knowing the trajectory of the shot help?

TheVaultDweller
When it's T'Challa and Bucky being discussed:

Originally posted by h1a8
Hitting someone across the room is the red herring since the argument is about damage, not how far someone is hit. If the metal arm would have sent TChalla flying across the room but still no damage then your argument would remain the same (no damage to prove durability).

When it is Ozy and the Watchmen being discussed:

Originally posted by h1a8
Or that those humans have superhuman durability since the distance they traveled proves the level of force operated on them.

FrothByte
^ Lol. I'd like to see how he weasels out of that one.

KingD19
Originally posted by h1a8
You know that Ozy had to used superhuman speed and perceptions to achieve the feat. Anything other than that is trolling the thread.
If you disagree that Ozy used superhuman speed and perceptions then say so.

So he uses superhuman speed/perception to catch a bullet after SS2 points it at him, says a quip, then waits a few seconds and fires, correct?

How is Bucky not using greater superhuman speed/perception to raise his arm and move it to block individual rifle and machine pistol rounds, as well as dodge out of the way of automatic fire? And don't call aim dodging, as we've had this roundabout before and posted evidence that proved Bucky reacted to the bullets being shot, not the shooter aiming.

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by FrothByte
^ Lol. I'd like to see how he weasels out of that one.

Can probably prepare ourselves for some Olympic-level mental gymnastics. Sad thing is we both know he will just keep going on like normal afterwards.

Khazra Reborn
Originally posted by KingD19
So he uses superhuman speed/perception to catch a bullet after SS2 points it at him, says a quip, then waits a few seconds and fires, correct?

How is Bucky not using greater superhuman speed/perception to raise his arm and move it to block individual rifle and machine pistol rounds, as well as dodge out of the way of automatic fire? And don't call aim dodging, as we've had this roundabout before and posted evidence that proved Bucky reacted to the bullets being shot, not the shooter aiming.

Aim dodging is the most pathetic bullshit excuse I've ever heard to try and discredit someone dodging gun fire, it infuriates me.

Arachnid1
Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Aim dodging is the most pathetic bullshit excuse I've ever heard to try and discredit someone dodging gun fire, it infuriates me. I get where you're coming from, and I usually hate BS excuses like "combat speed" people use on characters like Superman too, but aim dodging isn't the same. The alternative is that a character is a flat out bullet timer, and they shouldn't be attributed that kind of credit if they aren't explicitly shown to actually dodge a bullet. There are different tiers to that kind of reaction speed. You've got aim dodging, which is the least impressive (but is still insanely impressive). Then you have bullet dodging which qualifies you as a bullet timer. The most impressive tier is flat out catching a bullet which requires the speed, precision, and perception to pull off. I'm not saying Ozy is that final tier since the bullet he caught was from an older gun and has a slower velocity than normal bullets, but it still comfortably beats out aim dodging.

The alternative is that every character who has ever evaded gunfire is a bullet timer. I definitely don't consider Black Widow or Daredevil (yet) a bullet timer, for example. Tony Stark was quick enough to catch the barrel of WS handgun and block the bullet with an armored glove, but he doesn't have any kind of super human reaction speed. An example of aim dodging is also Ozy's elevator scene, and it was shown in slow motion which makes it one of the most explicit examples of aim dodging I've ever seen.

I also don't agree with H1's "Hitting someone across the room is the red herring" assessment. Giving Ozy credit for that but not T'Challa just doesn't make sense. The amount of force required to have that kind of effect indicates an obvious level of super strength. You can't pick and choose what to and what not to attribute on the basis of fanboyism. That's Quan territory. People on this forum also have a bad habit of treating Ozy like he's nothing above peak human when he puts out hits like that, over powers a man that can break concrete with his punches, can leap 30 feat into the air and across a room, and can toss a 300lb man through plate glass "you'd have to step on the gas just to put a crack in". The guy even let Nite Owl have a flurry of free hits to his face and was only mildly annoyed, and NO is a guy who can send people soaring with his hits and break bone with a punch. Ozy is super human in strength, speed, durability, and reaction.

On that note, I can agree that Ozy isn't as strong or durable as the parties being discussed here (though he doesn't lag behind by too much), but he is faster and more skilled and he is durable enough to take a good amount of hits from an unarmored T'Challa. Just look at Ozy blocking and attacking through the simultaneous assault of both Rorschach and NO and compare it to Winter Soldier taking Tony, Sharon, and Black Widow one at a time and each of them actually putting up a fight. This fight boils down to the fact that Ozy is fast enough to avoid BPs attacks while peppering him with punches that would do damage. BP just wouldn't be able to last.

h1a8
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
When it's T'Challa and Bucky being discussed:



When it is Ozy and the Watchmen being discussed:

distance proves force. Damage proves force.
In Tony's example, there wasn't either. Thus the force on him was human level.

In Ozy's example, there was distance.

Originally posted by FrothByte
What a load of BS. Nite Owl = Bucky? Sure. Remind me again when Nite Owl has been able to break concrete with a punch?

Anyway, you're obviously trolling. It's a waste of time to continue replying to you.

Breaking someone arm like No did is equivalent to breaking concrete like Bucky did. I was referring to Bucky minus the metal arm. The metal arm is obviously stronger than NO.

Originally posted by KingD19
So he uses superhuman speed/perception to catch a bullet after SS2 points it at him, says a quip, then waits a few seconds and fires, correct?

How is Bucky not using greater superhuman speed/perception to raise his arm and move it to block individual rifle and machine pistol rounds, as well as dodge out of the way of automatic fire? And don't call aim dodging, as we've had this roundabout before and posted evidence that proved Bucky reacted to the bullets being shot, not the shooter aiming.

Because Bucky did it after the fire. Any peak human could do what he did.
Nothing impressive about it.

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
Breaking someone arm like No did is equivalent to breaking concrete like Bucky did.

Those who can, do; those that can't, teach.

juggerman
Originally posted by juggerman
BP beats that ass

h1a8
Originally posted by juggerman


Ozy is more skilled, possibly stronger, and far faster (with better perception speed). He stomps BP.

Silent Master
Only, none of that is true.

juggerman
Originally posted by h1a8
Ozy is more skilled, possibly stronger, and far faster (with better perception speed). He stomps BP.

Come on man

h1a8

Silent Master
Are we basing their stats and abilities on visual feats or implied power / ability?

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
Are we basing their stats and abilities on visual feats or implied power / ability?

I use visual speed to comply with your rule on the matter.

KingD19
So visually, Ozy catching a much slower bullet, and already showing he's an aim-dodger(visually) by the bank robber...is faster than Bucky flipping around from Falcon or using his arm to individually block assault rifle rounds(as you see him moving his arm and more and more bullets ricocheting off) is slower?

Your bullshit is once again going to multiple pages because it's bullshit.

quanchi112
BP wins.

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
I use visual speed to comply with your rule on the matter.

If we are using visual speed, then BP is the faster fighter.

KingD19
Originally posted by Silent Master
If we are using visual speed, then BP is the faster fighter.

Okay, I knew my logic wasn't off. Dodging and blocking MULTIPLE AUTOMATIC bullets that travel at least 2-3 times faster than the SINGLE revolver round Ozy caught is faster, correct?

And Ozy already aim-dodges. So how does he aim-dodge for once scene, and then in the next scene he's just faster than bullets?

9SjCNRO80YE?t=99

Start at 1:36

He clearly sees where the gunman is pointing and pre-emptively hides behind people so he can get closer to him and take him down. If he he's fast enough to catch and dodge bullets like people say, why did he sacrifice those people as meat shields to make it a few feet?

Adam Grimes
I forgot how much of a faggatron Ozymandias was.

KingD19
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I forgot how much of a faggatron Ozymandias was.

How to take over the world!

Start by taking down an assassin you hired and killing him so he can't reveal you hired him to kill you in the first place. Also getting several innocents killed in the process.

h1 sure knows how to pick em.

KingD19
2mqKd9uetEM

Throughout this entire fight, Bucky blocks bullets from multiple angles, nearly point blank range, and from people he can't even see. But Ozy catching a single revolver bullet from across the room is better. Bullshit.

Silent Master
The people in Watchmen are retarded. in their place. I'd have shot him in the head. instead she aimed for his armor.

h1a8
Originally posted by KingD19
2mqKd9uetEM

Throughout this entire fight, Bucky blocks bullets from multiple angles, nearly point blank range, and from people he can't even see. But Ozy catching a single revolver bullet from across the room is better. Bullshit.
Bucky was aim blocking. He puts his arm up before the bullet that strikes it fires.

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
If we are using visual speed, then BP is the faster fighter. Visually Ozy is faster. He displayed faster action speed and he caught a bullet.

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
Visually Ozy is faster. He displayed faster action speed and he caught a bullet.

He wasn't visibly moving all that fast when he caught the bullet.

playa1258
Panther takes this. The gap will become bigger after the BP and IW films.

KingD19
Originally posted by h1a8
Bucky was aim blocking. He puts his arm up before the bullet that strikes it fires.

Which time? He does it multiple times.

h1a8
Originally posted by KingD19
Which time? He does it multiple times.

Every scene he blocks a bullet. From my memory, in one scene he puts his arm up AFTER the enemy points the gun at him. Just block at the aim.

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
He wasn't visibly moving all that fast when he caught the bullet.

It was in slow motion. Otherwise the bullet was slow. We know that isn't true.

Silent Master
There was no indication that it was in slow motion.

KingD19
Originally posted by h1a8
Every scene he blocks a bullet. From my memory, in one scene he puts his arm up AFTER the enemy points the gun at him. Just block at the aim.


So what you're saying is, either your memory is shit. Or you're outright lying, correct?

I've got the video right here.

2mqKd9uetEM

1:45 - Cap shows his enhanced reflexes by batting away a flashbang grenade while looking at Bucky. He's already done this in the first movie when he threw his shield at a sniper perfectly hidden in a tree.

1:50 - Around here Bucky blocks another flashbang with the mattress without looking. He just hears glass shatter.

2:15 - You clearly hear gunfire, and then Bucky puts his arm up to block the first barrage of shots his way. He blocks several individual bullets and moves his arm slightly to block each one.

2:20 - He puts his hand up and crosses the room, blocking 3 rifle shots the whole time from a guy trying to put a hole in him. The guy only hit his hand, so Bucky blocked every individual shot pointed straight at him from nearly point blank.

2:40 - A soldier breaks through the skylight, and starts shooting down at Bucky. Bucky wasn't even looking at him before he started blocking, but again put his arm up and blocked enough bullets that he was fine.

He gets shot at 3 different times, and blocks all 3 from different angles. He's not a bullet timer, but he's fast enough to block assault rifle rounds easily. Ozy had issue with 1 bullet from a slow shooting gun.

And I'll post up the video again that proves Ozy is an aim-dodger. Or are you just gonna ignore the assassination scene where he hides behind people and uses them as bullet shields to get close to the shooter?

Silent Master
I'd like some proof that the bullet catch scene was shot in slow-motion like h1 is now claiming.

h1a8
Originally posted by KingD19
So what you're saying is, either your memory is shit. Or you're outright lying, correct?

I've got the video right here.

2mqKd9uetEM

1:45 - Cap shows his enhanced reflexes by batting away a flashbang grenade while looking at Bucky. He's already done this in the first movie when he threw his shield at a sniper perfectly hidden in a tree.

1:50 - Around here Bucky blocks another flashbang with the mattress without looking. He just hears glass shatter.

2:15 - You clearly hear gunfire, and then Bucky puts his arm up to block the first barrage of shots his way. He blocks several individual bullets and moves his arm slightly to block each one.

2:20 - He puts his hand up and crosses the room, blocking 3 rifle shots the whole time from a guy trying to put a hole in him. The guy only hit his hand, so Bucky blocked every individual shot pointed straight at him from nearly point blank.

2:40 - A soldier breaks through the skylight, and starts shooting down at Bucky. Bucky wasn't even looking at him before he started blocking, but again put his arm up and blocked enough bullets that he was fine.

He gets shot at 3 different times, and blocks all 3 from different angles. He's not a bullet timer, but he's fast enough to block assault rifle rounds easily. Ozy had issue with 1 bullet from a slow shooting gun.

And I'll post up the video again that proves Ozy is an aim-dodger. Or are you just gonna ignore the assassination scene where he hides behind people and uses them as bullet shields to get close to the shooter?

You are pretty stupid. I'm serious.
Bucky basically shielded himself from gunfire. A human can easily do this. Someone points, Bucky raises to block. Someone busts through, Bucky raises his hand to block. Only an idiot would think what Bucky did was superhuman. Ozy caught a bullet. That's all that matters. He has superhuman speed and reflexes and perceptions. Bucky and BP would appear as statues to him at best and very slow moving at worst.

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
I'd like some proof that the bullet catch scene was shot in slow-motion like h1 is now claiming. Well if you want to say that the bullet wasn't the speed of a real bullet then this debate is over.

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
Well if you want to say that the bullet wasn't the speed of a real bullet then this debate is over.


You're claiming the scene was shot in slow motion, prove it.

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
You're claiming the scene was shot in slow motion, prove it. Part of the scene was shot in slow motion. You see him swiveling in slow motion as he is catching the bullet. He moves far slower than he did when fighting the two. Look at the scene again.

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
Part of the scene was shot in slow motion. You see him swiveling in slow motion as he is catching the bullet. He moves far slower than he did when fighting the two. Look at the scene again.

That was not slow motion, that was just him turning around slowly. The movie made it very clear when it was using slow motion and that was not one of the times.

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
That was not slow motion, that was just him turning around slowly. The movie made it very clear when it was using slow motion and that was not one of the times. So he caught the bullet while moving so slow that it is comically slow?

Just for laughs and giggles, how can you prove something is shot in slow motion? Can I just state that a slow motion clip is actually how fast the characters were moving and get away with it?

Adam Grimes
Panther kicks Ozy in the head with a leg strong enough to casually shrug off a fall from a phucking skyscrapper and the faggatron just drops dead 10/10. thumb up

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
So he caught the bullet while moving so slow that it is comically slow?

Just for laughs and giggles, how can you prove something is shot in slow motion? Can I just state that a slow motion clip is actually how fast the characters were moving and get away with it?

If you can't prove it that just shows that you made it up in order to help your failing argument.

Inhuman
Originally posted by h1a8
Bucky and BP would appear as statues to him at best and very slow moving at worst.

Ozy never used this speed you talk about in a fight.

laughing out loud @ BP would be a statue.

The bullet catch was something Ozy timed and anticipated. Yet after he was down and out.

This has been brought up before , Baseball players hitting and reacting to 100+ mile per hour thrown baseballs doesnt mean they are reacting and moving at 100 miles per hour.
Its all anticipated and calculated reactions, Just like Ozy feat.

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
If you can't prove it that just shows that you made it up in order to help your failing argument. So you refuse to answer the question. Why do you troll so much?

h1a8
Originally posted by Inhuman
Ozy never used this speed you talk about in a fight.

laughing out loud @ BP would be a statue.

The bullet catch was something Ozy timed and anticipated. Yet after he was down and out.

This has been brought up before , Baseball players hitting and reacting to 100+ mile per hour thrown baseballs doesnt mean they are reacting and moving at 100 miles per hour.
Its all anticipated and calculated reactions, Just like Ozy feat.

Originally posted by h1a8
It won't help a human one bit. A human cannot perceive the flight of a bullet.
Even if the human knows the exact moment that the bullet will be fired and the exact trajectory then they still will be helplessly frozen in time when the bullet enters the air AND they won't be able to follow it (or even see it) during the entire flight.

Therefore Ozy had to have superhuman perception and hand speed to achieve the feat.

KingD19
So h1, what about the assassin? Ozy was clearly shown aim-dodging in that scene and using people as shields. Gonna ignore that?

h1a8
Originally posted by KingD19
So h1, what about the assassin? Ozy was clearly shown aim-dodging in that scene and using people as shields. Gonna ignore that?

Pretty much as it doesn't have any bearing on the latter feat.

1. Characters reserve the right to perform better in later situations.
2. It's possible that Ozy was still seeing things in slow motion (including the bullets). Which supports the latter feat.
3. Aim dodging does not prove that someone does not have the ability to time the bullet (perceive it in the air and react fast enough to block, dodge, or catch it).

Inhuman
Originally posted by h1a8
It won't help a human one bit. A human cannot perceive the flight of a bullet.
Even if the human knows the exact moment that the bullet will be fired and the exact trajectory then they still will be helplessly frozen in time when the bullet enters the air AND they won't be able to follow it (or even see it) during the entire flight.

Therefore Ozy had to have superhuman perception and hand speed to achieve the feat.

So answer something you have never answered before and have avoided....

So if i give you the benefit of the doubt and say Ozy did move in super speed bullet time. He was floored afterwards. As seen on screen. You can make up stories as to why this was but as far as we know (based on screen feats) Oxy was floored out-winded after said feat.

So if Ozy blocks 1 punch in bullet speed he would be out of energy on the ground after. As seen on screen.
There is no feat of OZY performing in these speeds in a fight or him being fine standing up after a speed feat.

So ill except that OZY has these super human bullet time reaction speeds when you accept that he would be floored afterwards. Sounds dumb but that is what is shown on screen.

FrothByte
There are real world humans who can catch arrows in mid flight. Arrows can travel as fast as 300 ft/s in modern compound bows, but let's say they travel at around 200 ft/s which is a high end traditional bow.

That doesn't mean that human beings can maintain moving at 200 ft/s during combat.

Considering that Ozy has above human stats, catching a bullet from an old handgun that travels what, 600 - 800 ft/s?, isn't really that far fetched. One thing for certain though, it doesn't mean that he's some kind of speedster or bullet timer.

One thing to note that differentiates arrows and bullets from punches and kicks is that arrows and bullets can only travel in straight trajectories and, especially in close distance, only travel the direction they're pointed at. Punches and kicks can come from all different angles and not necessarily straight lines.

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
So you refuse to answer the question. Why do you troll so much?

You made the claim, that means the burden is on you. that is how debates work.

You attempting to shift the burden to me in an effort to avoid backing up your claim is the real trolling and you know it.

h1a8
Originally posted by FrothByte
There are real world humans who can catch arrows in mid flight. Arrows can travel as fast as 300 ft/s in modern compound bows, but let's say they travel at around 200 ft/s which is a high end traditional bow.

That doesn't mean that human beings can maintain moving at 200 ft/s during combat.

Considering that Ozy has above human stats, catching a bullet from an old handgun that travels what, 600 - 800 ft/s?, isn't really that far fetched. One thing for certain though, it doesn't mean that he's some kind of speedster or bullet timer.

One thing to note that differentiates arrows and bullets from punches and kicks is that arrows and bullets can only travel in straight trajectories and, especially in close distance, only travel the direction they're pointed at. Punches and kicks can come from all different angles and not necessarily straight lines. No real world human can catch a 200ft/s arrow from closer than 60ft. The arrows that the humans catch move between 70-100ft/s from a distance between 40-80 ft.

Ozy caught the bullet from between 7-12ft away. The bullet was traveling at about 1000ft/s. So about 1/4 less distance and 9 times faster projectile and Ozymandias is at minimum 36 times faster than some of the quickest humans.

Lastly, the problem isn't speed. It's perception. A human is literally frozen in time in comparison to a bullet. If Ozy can perceive the movement of a bullet then a human would appear frozen in time to him.


Originally posted by Inhuman
So answer something you have never answered before and have avoided....

So if i give you the benefit of the doubt and say Ozy did move in super speed bullet time. He was floored afterwards. As seen on screen. You can make up stories as to why this was but as far as we know (based on screen feats) Oxy was floored out-winded after said feat.

So if Ozy blocks 1 punch in bullet speed he would be out of energy on the ground after. As seen on screen.
There is no feat of OZY performing in these speeds in a fight or him being fine standing up after a speed feat.

So ill except that OZY has these super human bullet time reaction speeds when you accept that he would be floored afterwards. Sounds dumb but that is what is shown on screen.

The problem is that he won't be floored from just the perception. Since a punch moves many times slower then he can move just fast enough to block, evade, or parry the punch while keeping his perceptions in tact. He doesn't need to move the speed of the bullet (unless he punches and kills them in one blow).

FrothByte
Originally posted by h1a8
No real world human can catch a 200ft/s arrow from closer than 60ft. The arrows that the humans catch move between 70-100ft/s from a distance between 40-80 ft.

Ozy caught the bullet from between 7-12ft away. The bullet was traveling at about 1000ft/s. So about 1/4 less distance and 9 times faster projectile and Ozymandias is at minimum 36 times faster than some of the quickest humans.
.

Look at you inventing numbers about stuff you know nothing about. Even a 20 pound bow which is usually considered a beginner's bow can generally chuck arrows at around 130 fps. Search for arrow catching vids on youtube and you'll see a lot of them doing so at around 20 feet distance.

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by FrothByte
Look at you inventing numbers about stuff you know nothing about. Even a 20 pound bow which is usually considered a beginner's bow can generally chuck arrows at around 130 fps. Search for arrow catching vids on youtube and you'll see a lot of them doing so at around 20 feet distance.

Yup. The one guy (Lars Andersen), who himself is a particularly skilled archer, can jump in the air, catch an arrow mid flight, and then fire that same arrow from his own bow, before he even hits the ground. The guy can even shoot other people's arrows out of the air.

Yet I would not bet on that same guy being able dance around a professional UFC fighter for 5 rounds.

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