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Kylo Ren vs. Luke Skywalker as he was in Return of the Jedi.


Round 1: Pure lightsaber fight only (no force powers)
Round 2: Same as round 1 except force powers are allowed.


Battle in an open field. Who wins?

Kylo wins both, only reason Luke beat Vader is because Vader was too conflicted

Kylo wins. Relentless, Kylo is better than Vader as well. Vader has no legit wins against any competent Jedi in the suit.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
?

Originally posted by quanchi112
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Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Concession accepted.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Concession accepted.

Forgive me. Sometimes i cant contain myselffrom laughing when surfing through the thread pages.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Forgive me. Sometimes i cant contain myselffrom laughing when surfing through the thread pages. Who wins this thread ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Who wins this thread ?

Why should Kylo?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Why should Kylo? More impressive with his force powers and skill with the Lightsaber IMO than Luke. Vader was always overrated. It's still impressive to dominate him but I see Kylo being too much for Luke.

Originally posted by quanchi112
More impressive with his force powers and skill with the Lightsaber IMO than Luke. Vader was always overrated. It's still impressive to dominate him but I see Kylo being too much for Luke.

Based off what exactly? Give me feats

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Based off what exactly? Give me feats Beating Luke.

/thread

Originally posted by quanchi112
Beating Luke.

/thread

Except he never beat Luke.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I wonder if he ever watch the movies :facepalm: I wonder if your grammar will ever improve. Nah, I know it won't.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Except he never beat Luke. He did and left him for dead. If you haven't seen the film don't debate. Simple.

Not sure which TLJ you people watched, but Luke had Kylo beat: when Luke slid under Kylo's attack, Luke could have easily struck out and killed Kylo as Kylo idiotically left himself open due to his emo-rage. This is a fact.

There's also the fact that Kylo didn't want to initially face Luke, why he ordered the barrage and only went out to face Luke after that seemingly failed.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not sure which TLJ you people watched, but Luke had Kylo beat: when Luke slid under Kylo's attack, Luke could have easily struck out and killed Kylo as Kylo idiotically left himself open due to his emo-rage. This is a fact.

There's also the fact that Kylo didn't want to initially face Luke, why he ordered the barrage and only went out to face Luke after that seemingly failed. Speculation. Your opinion is not a fact.

Why would Kylo risk it all engaging him in a duel if not necessary. He did get out to face him so he was not scared. Kylo is more polished and has raw strength which Luke marveled at. Both Kylo and Rey and this entire trilogy shits on the Ot in terms of power.

Nope, it's a fact because we literally see Kylo leave himself wide open with his high-strike and Luke sliding under it like a boss. Luke had him, if he wished. But Disney was mimicking the Obi Vs Vader scene in ep4.

Rey will defo become the most powerful, it's what Disney is going for, said it before. Luke had one of the greatest Force-feats on film in ep8, Force-projecting himself physically across the galaxy; so you're not correct there either.

Originally posted by Robtard
Nope, it's a fact because we literally see Kylo leave himself wide open with his high-strike and Luke sliding under it like a boss. The film is fact.

Rey will defo become the most powerful, it's what Disney is going for, said it before. Luke had one of the greatest Force-feats on film in ep8, so you're not correct there either. So no proof just speculation of had he done this. That's an opinion. The film is a fact and Ben defeated him. Luke didn't defeat Ben.

She will be Kylo's counterpart. The light to meet his darkness. Kylo is already more skilled. Snoke is the most powerful since she was abused by Snoke.

I've said Disney is going bigger and better in all aspects since this came out.

Snoke>Palpatine
Kylo>Vader
Rey>Luke from OT
Luke>Yoda from OT
First Order>Empire
Dameron>Han

Already explained, but you're doing your thing

Originally posted by Robtard
Already explained, but you're doing your thing Difference is you said what could have happened I'm arguing based off what did happen. Facts always take precedence over speculation.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I wonder if your grammar will ever improve. Nah, I know it won't.

Hope it doesn't, cause you barely manage to cope with me.

Originally posted by Robtard
Already explained, but you're doing your thing

COME ON!!! HE IS QUAN!!

....EXPECTED!....

Kylo

Luke wins. Winning against Vader is better than any combat feat Kylo has so far.

Originally posted by playa1258
Luke wins. Winning against Vader is better than any combat feat Kylo has so far.

Luke.

Kylo doesn't seem very good at lightsaber duels. Rey beat him pretty easily in TFA and he even struggled against Finn - someone who has no experience or force powers.

In the battle in TLJ Luke was toying with Kylo the whole time. Rob's absolutely right, had it been an actual battle Luke had a big opening to take out Kylo.

OP is using Luke from RotJ not TLJ

Oh right.

Well even then he is probably better than Kylo.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Hope it doesn't, cause you barely manage to cope with me. You don't even grasp your own points and find the English language to be an unsolvable mystery. Can't help you, kid.

Originally posted by BackFire
Oh right.

Well even then he is probably better than Kylo.

Luke said he'd only felt a power like Rey's once before and he was referring to Kylo. That tells us that Kylo is superior to Luke in power. Luke was still pretty inexperienced in RotJ too. He might outskill Kylo in TLJ but RotJ Luke loses

Originally posted by juggerman
Luke said he'd only felt a power like Rey's once before and he was referring to Kylo. That tells us that Kylo is superior to Luke in power. Luke was still pretty inexperienced in RotJ too. He might outskill Kylo in TLJ but RotJ Luke loses

feeling power inside = potential power

just because Luke sensed something in Kylo doesn't mean that Ben could summon that power at will; Luke is still far superior to Ren as evidenced when he toyed with him in their brief lightsaber encounter.

Originally posted by relentless1
feeling power inside = potential power

just because Luke sensed something in Kylo doesn't mean that Ben could summon that power at will; Luke is still far superior to Ren as evidenced when he toyed with him in their brief lightsaber encounter. Avoiding his attacks through a projection on a nexus doesn't prove he'd defeat Kylo. We already saw the two go at it in the same physical space. How did it turn out ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
You don't even grasp your own points and find the English language to be an unsolvable mystery. Can't help you, kid.


And still you cant manage to fight back my points! Bahahahaha.

Just want to remind people that this is Luke from RotJ, not master Luke from TLJ.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Just want to remind people that this is Luke from RotJ, not master Luke from TLJ.

Yeah. ROTJ Luke defeated Vader. A feat greater to any Kylo has so far portrayed.

^ Agreed Kylo has no Saber feats to put him on that level. And there's literally no reason to power scale Kylo favorably next to Vader or ROTJ Luke.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
And still you cant manage to fight back my points! Bahahahaha. You lose all the time. This is just another case.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yeah. ROTJ Luke defeated Vader. A feat greater to any Kylo has so far portrayed. Ben beat still connected to the force Luke with years more experience. Yeah, Kylo wakes up from a nap and beats this guy.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Agreed Kylo has no Saber feats to put him on that level. And there's literally no reason to power scale Kylo favorably next to Vader or ROTJ Luke.

How about force feats?

Originally posted by FrothByte
How about force feats?


Then he'll look better than ROTJ Luke, but still not better than OT Vader. And that's just going by Movie only feats. If we go by extended canon, it's clear OT Vader Force powers are >>> Kylo's.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You lose all the time. This is just another case.

Sorry, but Grindelwald vs Voldemort thread stands as example that my judgement is far better than yours! BAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Then he'll look better than ROTJ Luke, but still not better than OT Vader. And that's just going by Movie only feats. If we go by extended canon, it's clear OT Vader Force powers are >>> Kylo's.

Totally agree.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Then he'll look better than ROTJ Luke, but still not better than OT Vader. And that's just going by Movie only feats. If we go by extended canon, it's clear OT Vader Force powers are >>> Kylo's.

Just movie feats.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Just movie feats.

Just movie feats Kylo would appear superior!

The 3 original trilogies focused mainly on portraying Luke's training and the Resistance's fights against the Empire.

The movies barely focused on portraying Vader's powers or legacy.

In that aspect Kylo would APPEAR superior.


However Lucas Film fixed this by the creation of the Prequel Trilogy, The Clone Wars TV series, and the Darth Vader comics.

All that information is completly canon to the movies and serves to answer who Vader is. Furthermore it helps to portray Vader's true power.

In that aspect Vader obliterates Kylo.

So, when you speak of the first trilogy you actually are forced to implement the extra material.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Just movie feats Kylo would appear superior!

The 3 original trilogies focused mainly on portraying Luke's training and the Resistance's fights against the Empire.

The movies barely focused on portraying Vader's powers or legacy.

In that aspect Kylo would APPEAR superior.


However Lucas Film fixed this by the creation of the Prequel Trilogy, The Clone Wars TV series, and the Darth Vader comics.

All that information is completly canon to the movies and serves to answer who Vader is. Furthermore it helps to portray Vader's true power.

In that aspect Vader obliterates Kylo.

So, when you speak of the first trilogy you actually are forced to implement the extra material.

No. Just the movies. I specifically made it a stipulation in the OP.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No. Just the movies. I specifically made it a stipulation in the OP.

I agree.

Just explaining you how things work in the SW verse.

Just movies then Kylo would beat ROTJ Luke.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I agree.

Just explaining you how things work in the SW verse.

Just movies then Kylo would beat ROTJ Luke.

I know how the SW universe works. That's why I limited it to the movies so that there would be no confusion.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I know how the SW universe works. That's why I limited it to the movies so that there would be no confusion.

Fine.

Luke cuts him in two.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Luke cuts him in two.

IK but the OP limited the character to a 1983 movie with poor CGI, poor saber combats and limited force feats.

Even Ahsoka Tano would seem better than Luke!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Sorry, but Grindelwald vs Voldemort thread stands as example that my judgement is far better than yours! BAHAHAHAHAHA No, it doesn't that just shows popularity is not how to debate it's based off evidence. If 9 out of 10 people said the world was flat would the one guy who dissented be wrong ? You won't u der stand any of this but most if not all will recognize my superior debating acumen.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it doesn't that just shows popularity is not how to debate it's based off evidence. If 9 out of 10 people said the world was flat would the one guy who dissented be wrong ? You won't u der stand any of this but most if not all will recognize my superior debating acumen.

Naah it means everyone watched the movies and casted a vote.

It also means my eyes werent wrong! Yours on the other hand... Bahahahahahahahahaha!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Naah it means everyone watched the movies and casted a vote.

It also means my eyes werent wrong! Yours on the other hand... Bahahahahahahahahaha! It means popularity doesn't prove they are right just as it wouldn't prove the world is flat. I knew you wouldn't understand. Kylo wins. He already beat an older more experienced and powerful Luke after a nap.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It means popularity doesn't prove they are right just as it wouldn't prove the world is flat. I knew you wouldn't understand. Kylo wins. He already beat an older more experienced and powerful Luke after a nap.

Yet you have no evidence as to make our arguments similar to Earth being flat.

Which either proves you are crazy or just ignorant.

Ignorant it appears to be..

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yet you have no evidence as to make our arguments similar to Earth being flat.

Which either proves you are crazy or just ignorant.

Ignorant it appears to be.. We already know it's a fact but you once again prove you don't grasp the point. You just repeat yourself and talk in moronic circles.

It is a fact Ben defeated Luke and left him for dead.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We already know it's a fact but you once again prove you don't grasp the point. You just repeat yourself and talk in moronic circles.

It is a fact Ben defeated Luke and left him for dead.

Its a fact your knowledge over SW is limited. Is a fact that you focus on denigrating other's comment rather than backing your points.

Is a fact that you dont understand movies quite well.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Its a fact your knowledge over SW is limited. Is a fact that you focus on denigrating other's comment rather than backing your points.

Is a fact that you dont understand movies quite well. No, that's your opinion but you aren't smart enough to understand basic logic.

You can't even string together a complete sentence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, that's your opinion but you aren't smart enough to understand basic logic.

You can't even string together a complete sentence.



Not according to some threads which am to lazy to point out at you.....

Okay. This has gone past this threadz's purpose so....You are entitled to your opinion.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Not according to some threads which am to lazy to point out at you.....

Okay. This has gone past this threadz's purpose so....You are entitled to your opinion. I always debate based off the evidence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I always debate based off the evidence.

Yeah, am sure thats a fact.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yeah, am sure thats a fact. Prove me wrong.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Prove me wrong.

Ohhh there is no need XD

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Ohhh there is no need XD K.

Originally posted by relentless1
feeling power inside = potential power

just because Luke sensed something in Kylo doesn't mean that Ben could summon that power at will; Luke is still far superior to Ren as evidenced when he toyed with him in their brief lightsaber encounter.

Again that was Luke 30+ years AFTER the Luke specified in this thread. Also that fight means nothing because it was basically a hologram. Not evidence that Luke is actually capable of doing that in person.



That tells us that his darkside power was superior to Vader and even Sidious since Luke felt them both up close. Luke was no match for Sids in RotJ and took all he had to topple Vader. Luke loses here

Can't quote you Dart Thor.

He is not Vader yet as in his actions and standing in the universe. Vader was overwhelmingly feared throughout the universe and he got shit done. Kylo isn't as competent but that has no bearing on power and Kylo is much more conflicted than Vader was (except at the end)

Who mentioned he was no Vader anyway? Snoke. We have no reason to believe Snoke has a accurate idea of Vader's power. Luke OTOH clearly has a very good idea of Vader's power and still considers Rey and Kylo as superior in power. That's very telling

Snoke was saying that to manipulate Kylo into motivating him. He wanted him focused not spiritually weakened. Vader was focused prior to Luke weakening his resolve. D. Thor's insistence on power alone and being biased to prop up Vader is silly. Grasp why Snoke is doing what he's doing. Snoke's faith in him was restored when he succeeded in bringing Rey to him.