Ranking Canon Force-Users

FreshestSlice

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Not sure how you could watch The Last Jedi and conclude that Rey is more powerful than Luke in anything but raw potential.
Honestly? Because while my eyes tell me one thing, the dialogue tells me another. Like how in the span of a week, she knows everything there is to know about a Jedi except three things. As contrived as that may be, I can't exactly override it. Consistency and all that.

The Ellimist

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Honestly? Because while my eyes tell me one thing, the dialogue tells me another. Like how in the span of a week, she knows everything there is to know about a Jedi except three things. As contrived as that may be, I can't exactly override it. Consistency and all that.

That's a function of learning rate / potential, not present ability. By that logic ESB Luke > Vader already.

Originally posted by Azronger
Why is Snoke so goddamn high? Guy gets slaughtered by most of the folks here lol.

1. Palpatine
2/3. Yoda/Vader
4. Anakin
5. Windu

RotJ Luke is already on Vader's level in Canon, by TLJ I don't see how people here are putting him below Windu.

FreshestSlice

No, because ESB Luke still had plenty to learn, and Rey doesn't. Kylo, her equal in just about everything, too is at the end of his training. Training that was designed specifically to kill Luke.

Azronger

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That's a function of learning rate / potential, not present ability. By that logic ESB Luke > Vader already.

RotJ Luke is already on Vader's level in Canon, by TLJ I don't see how people here are putting him below Windu.

Eh, no clue where to rank Luke tbh

Geistalt

Above Snoke.
Luke never would've been caught off-guard like Snoke was.

NewGuy01

1. Anakin
2. Qui-Gon
3. Yoda
4. Obi-Wan
5. Plagueis
6. Emperor
7. Vader
8. Snoke
9. Luke
10. Bane

Honorable mentions: Quinlan Vos, Rey

The Ellimist

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, because ESB Luke still had plenty to learn, and Rey doesn't. Kylo, her equal in just about everything, too is at the end of his training. Training that was designed specifically to kill Luke.

Rey couldn't even describe the Force properly and seemed unfamiliar with even the most basic activities. If she knew so much she wouldn't have asked Luke to train her. Rey is on Kylo's level as a combatant because she has so much raw power, not because she has studied the Force in detail. Kylo being near the "end of his training" means little - you can say someone about to get their degree or whatever is near the "end" of their formal training too.

Regardless, it's still an indicator of potential/aptitude and not present power.

relentless1

1. Darth Sidious/Yoda/Luke Skywalker
3. Darth Vader
4. Rey
5. Kylo Ren
6. Count Dooku
7. Snoke
8. Mace Windu
9. Obi Wan
10. Darth Maul

FreshestSlice

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Rey couldn't even describe the Force properly and seemed unfamiliar with even the most basic activities. If she knew so much she wouldn't have asked Luke to train her. Rey is on Kylo's level as a combatant because she has so much raw power, not because she has studied the Force in detail. Kylo being near the "end of his training" means little - you can say someone about to get their degree or whatever is near the "end" of their formal training too.

Regardless, it's still an indicator of potential/aptitude and not present power.
Your opinion is irrelevant. Yoda's pretty wise and knowledgeable. Much more than you. And if he says Rey knows everything, she knows everything. Kylo and Rey are supposed to have similar potentials, and no one ends their training before being ready to be masters themselves. And Darksiders only become ready to do that once they're able to defeat their masters. There's really no reason to think either Rey or Kylo are going to jump massively in power, just like there's no reason to believe Rey is light years ahead of everyone else in canon in terms of potential.

ares834

Where does he say Rey knows everything? He mentions that library does not hold anything that Rey doesn't posses. And as revealed at the end of the film, he isn't saying that because she already knows it but because she stole the books from the library.

relentless1

Originally posted by ares834
Where does he say Rey knows everything? He mentions that library does not hold anything that Rey doesn't posses. And as revealed at the end of the film, he isn't saying that because she already knows it but because she stole the books from the library.

lol soo many people missed that

The Ellimist

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Your opinion is irrelevant. Yoda's pretty wise and knowledgeable. Much more than you. And if he says Rey knows everything, she knows everything. Kylo and Rey are supposed to have similar potentials, and no one ends their training before being ready to be masters themselves. And Darksiders only become ready to do that once they're able to defeat their masters. There's really no reason to think either Rey or Kylo are going to jump massively in power, just like there's no reason to believe Rey is light years ahead of everyone else in canon in terms of potential.

lmao if Rey had already reached/neared her peak why was she begging Luke to teach her? And why was she unable to do basic things like Force meditate properly without supervision? Assuming you're being serious, your entire case is based on the notion that "your training is complete" == "you've reached your max potential", which has no basis whatsoever in either common sense or the canon, given that Luke wasn't at his peak in RotJ, nor was Obi Wan in AotC.

Yoda saying "no more training you require" doesn't mean "omniscient you are and at 100% full power you are" cause you can still learn and practice, ofc.

Oh, and there are obvious reasons for Rey's potential to be high, like that she's explicitly a pseudo-chosen one to balance Kylo Ren and because Luke said she had lots of raw power. Which in a galaxy you'll find once in a while from a random person; there's no indication Yoda, Windu, etc. had Force-important parents.

redpill

Originally posted by Geistalt
Above Snoke.
Luke never would've been caught off-guard like Snoke was.

he was by ben solo

|King Joker|

What has Kylo Ren and/or Rey done to be considered as high up as some of you are putting them (Jedi Council-tier+)?

The Ellimist

Originally posted by |King Joker|
What has Kylo Ren and/or Rey done to be considered as high up as some of you are putting them (Jedi Council-tier+)?

Why would Luke and Snoke wank to Kylo's potential with his mere existence unbalancing the Force if at age (late 20's?) he's still sub-Maul?

Dark-Kenshin

Originally posted by The Ellimist
lmao if Rey had already reached/neared her peak why was she begging Luke to teach her? And why was she unable to do basic things like Force meditate properly without supervision? Assuming you're being serious, your entire case is based on the notion that "your training is complete" == "you've reached your max potential", which has no basis whatsoever in either common sense or the canon, given that Luke wasn't at his peak in RotJ, nor was Obi Wan in AotC.A lot of things in this movie have no basis whatsoever in either common sense (how does one "drop" bombs in space without gravity?) or the canon. Rey has virtually no training (18 hours give or take of mostly self-discipline if we go by the movie timeline), but is able to best opponents even Kylo (years of training and refinement) has difficulty with. If it were that easy, Anakin by AOTC should have been waltzing around on Abeloth levels. TLJ is just not a well written movie. Yoda's line may be BS, but it's canon so . . . confused

Nowhere in the canon could you ever get away with such minimal training in the fashion Rey has, choosen one or not.

Zenwolf

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
A lot of things in this movie have no basis whatsoever in either common sense (how does one "drop" bombs in space without gravity?) or the canon. Rey has virtually no training (18 hours give or take of mostly self-discipline if we go by the movie timeline), but is able to best opponents even Kylo (years of training and refinement) has difficulty with. If it were that easy, Anakin by AOTC should have been waltzing around on Abeloth levels. TLJ is just not a well written movie. Yoda's line may be BS, but it's canon so . . . confused

Nowhere in the canon could you ever get away with such minimal training in the fashion Rey has, choosen one or not.

What's worse is that I think those bombers the Resistance used seemed more for atmospheric places than space, because there's zero use for them to be used in space as they need to be directly over the target, I think they drop though and the bombs magnetically get pulled to their target, or so the page says.

DarthAnt66

The movie has issues, but everything you just noted isn't among them.

Beniboybling

Gravity in space has been a thing in Star Wars for years (ships "falling" after taking a hit etc.), as have explosions and sound and other things that make no sense. Lmao.

Nephthys

Things don't just stop moving when they enter zero gravity, lol. The bombs fell because of the ships artificial gravity just like Rose's sister and the remote fell and then kept their momentum downwards.

Not that it even matters.

Prof. T.C McAbe

1) Luke
2) Yoda
3) Palpatine/Vader
4) Dooku
5) Kenobi
6) Qui-Gon/Mace
7)Ahsoka
8) Snoke
9) Maul
10) Rey
11) Kylo

DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
1) Luke
2) Yoda
3) Palpatine/Vader
4) Dooku
5) Kenobi
6) Qui-Gon/Mace
7)Ahsoka
8) Snoke
9) Maul
10) Rey
11) Kylo
It honestly seems like you put these names into a random assortment generator and posted the results.

The Ellimist

Originally posted by Zenwolf
What's worse is that I think those bombers the Resistance used seemed more for atmospheric places than space, because there's zero use for them to be used in space as they need to be directly over the target, I think they drop though and the bombs magnetically get pulled to their target, or so the page says.

Yeah, but as you point out they could've just been long range missiles.

The biggest military plot hole (among the thousand that exist) is that apparently you can destroy an entire fleet with lightspeed ramming but nobody's ever thought to just rig a bunch of autopiloted ships to spam this.

Beniboybling

Originally posted by Nephthys
Things don't just stop moving when they enter zero gravity, lol. The bombs fell because of the ships artificial gravity just like Rose's sister and the remote fell and then kept their momentum downwards.

Not that it even matters. nerd

DarthAnt66

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The biggest military plot hole (among the thousand that exist) is that apparently you can destroy an entire fleet with lightspeed ramming but nobody's ever thought to just rig a bunch of autopiloted ships to spam this.
Gravity well projectors?

cs_zoltan

The Ellimist

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Gravity well projectors?

Why didn't the FO have any with them, and if they knew they didn't why didn't they anticipate this / why wasn't this the Rebels' first instinct?

We also see ships jumping in and out of hyperspace right next to enemy fleets plenty of times, so there's no reason why they can't get a bunch of autopiloted freighters to kill any fleet instantly. It literally breaks every space battle.

But yeah, best way to get out of that mess is something like interdictors + just assume everyone there had a brain fart or that there was some subplot where the FO's interdictors got disabled.

Beniboybling

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, but as you point out they could've just been long range missiles.

The biggest military plot hole (among the thousand that exist) is that apparently you can destroy an entire fleet with lightspeed ramming but nobody's ever thought to just rig a bunch of autopiloted ships to spam this. Provided you can afford to waste bunch of massive capital-class cruisers, yeah.

Regardless in Legends lightspeed ramming can fracture planetary cores, an active fusion reactor impacting at faster than the speed of light would do that, kek.

Nephthys

I still prefer the explanation that going to hyperspace takes time to set up and the enemy can sense you do it so its a pretty easy thing to just move slightly out of the way and laugh as they pancake into a moon.

Hux just ignored it through overconfidence.

DarthAnt66

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Why didn't the FO have any with them, and if they knew they didn't why didn't they anticipate this / why wasn't this the Rebels' first instinct?

We also see ships jumping in and out of hyperspace right next to enemy fleets plenty of times, so there's no reason why they can't get a bunch of autopiloted freighters to kill any fleet instantly. It literally breaks every space battle.
I imagine they have gravity well projectors, just they were turned off because the Resistance was fleeing the other direction so that more power can be put into the engines.

Same applies for the shields.

When Holdo began to slowly turn the Radius, Hux didn't think anything of it until it was too late. We don't know how long it takes to turn on and off gravity well projectors.

That being said, this has always been an issue.

DarthAnt66

Darth Thor

Originally posted by relentless1
lol soo many people missed that

I missed that the first time. And it made me hate the movie.

The Ellimist

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Provided you can afford to waste bunch of massive capital-class cruisers, yeah.

Regardless in Legends lightspeed ramming can fracture planetary cores, an active fusion reactor impacting at faster than the speed of light would do that, kek.

One cruiser for an entire fleet and a dreadnaught? Works.

Zenwolf

Originally posted by Nephthys
I still prefer the explanation that going to hyperspace takes time to set up and the enemy can sense you do it so its a pretty easy thing to just move slightly out of the way and laugh as they pancake into a moon.

Hux just ignored it through overconfidence.

Or being a dumb***...probably both...both. Hell that one random Imperial captain in ESB when his ISD was about to crash right into another was better at making quick calls than Hux who by comparison had all the time in the world.

FreshestSlice

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Nonsense
Are you saying Rey isn't the master we've always wanted, Ellimist?

Prof. T.C McAbe

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It honestly seems like you put these names into a random assortment generator and posted the results.

It's my ranking, feel free to disagree.

The Ellimist

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It honestly seems like you put these names into a random assortment generator and posted the results.

Eh, I don't see how the first half of his list is implausible.

Prof. T.C McAbe

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Eh, I don't see how the first half of his list is implausible.
No worries mate, he is just trying to troll me because I didn't accept his non-canon ranking system.

DarthAnt66

Ah, shit, I actually forgot that was that guy.

I knew the list sounded familiar, LOL.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Not including entities or Talzin/etc. ('cause not sure), using realized power:

Luke Skywalker
Darth Sidious
Yoda
Anakin Skywalker
Darth Vader
Mace Windu
Snoke
Dooku
Obi Wan
Rey/Kylo
Ahsoka/Maul

Question: Why is Snoke beneath Vader if Rey and Kylo are above Ahsoka and Maul? In the context of canon, I don't think there's a chance in hell ROTJ Vader would treat Maul or Ahsoka in the way Snoke treated Rey. Unless you're gonna argue Rey's power level is inconsistent/unreliable.

Anyways, my list is something like:

Anakin Skywalker
Darth Sidious
Master Yoda
Luke/Snoke
Snoke/Luke
Master Windu
Darth Vader
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Count Dooku
Rey/Kylo

DarthDuelist9

Painful.

LordOfTheLight

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Question: Why is Snoke beneath Vader if Rey and Kylo are above Ahsoka and Maul? In the context of canon, I don't think there's a chance in hell ROTJ Vader would treat Maul or Ahsoka in the way Snoke treated Rey. Unless you're gonna argue Rey's power level is inconsistent/unreliable.

Anyways, my list is something like:

Anakin Skywalker
Darth Sidious
Master Yoda
Luke/Snoke
Snoke/Luke
Master Windu
Darth Vader
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Count Dooku
Rey/Kylo

Why do you have Obi Wan above Dooku? And why is Maul so low so as to be below Kylo/Rey( assuming you didn't forget him in the list)?

Lord Stark

1. Father

2.Son/ Daughter

4. Yoda/Sidious
6. Anakin (Zonakin)
7. Talzin

8. Peak Vader
9. Dooku/Mace Windu

Honorable Mention: Luke Skywalker, Snoke

The Ellimist

Originally posted by Lord Stark
1. Father

2.Son/ Daughter

4. Yoda/Sidious
6. Anakin (Zonakin)
7. Talzin

8. Peak Vader
9. Dooku/Mace Windu

Honorable Mention: Luke Skywalker, Snoke

How is Luke below Dooku? In RotJ he was matching blows with Vader with like a year and a half of training.

Lord Stark

Originally posted by The Ellimist
How is Luke below Dooku? In RotJ he was matching blows with Vader with like a year and a half of training.

1. That's pretty much prime Luke in canon.
2. That was a sabers only contest, at no point (even off screen or in Legends) does Luke contend with Vader's force prowess. For example, TCW Kenobi can match and indeed defeat Maul in raw sabers but is inferior force wise.

That being said, this does not preclude Luke or Snoke for that matter from being added to the list once the canon embellishes their feats a bit.

The Ellimist

I do sort of expect future canon material to end the "Luke is weak" claims, but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Question: Why is Snoke beneath Vader if Rey and Kylo are above Ahsoka and Maul? In the context of canon, I don't think there's a chance in hell ROTJ Vader would treat Maul or Ahsoka in the way Snoke treated Rey. Unless you're gonna argue Rey's power level is inconsistent/unreliable.

Rey's power level is pretty inconsistent, likely as a result of having such a high lantent power : training ratio. I mean she defeats Kylo Ren in a duel but then when she's practicing in TLJ awkwardly swings her lightsaber around and looks like she might hurt herself.

I'm also not sure if Rey really understands how to defend herself in the Force, though given she learns everything else magically I guess she may know that too.

But you do make a good point - not sure if we should move Snoke up or Rey/Kylo down. It's sort of implied that Vader > Snoke but hey, maybe Snoke admires Vader despite being stronger than him. Kylo might be weaker than Maul or Ahsoka but it seems contrary to his potential + training.

It really depends on what metric you're using. If the metric is "who would win in a fight" or "who has greater mastery of the Force?", there's a reason Yoda thought Obi Wan could go kill Vader but would never stand a chance against Palpatine. But Anakin likely has more Force power than Sidious.

Uh, unless if Disney comes out to retcon Luke's Force potential (unlikely as they ran with the Skywalker-uber-potential line with Kylo), I don't see how he hasn't surpassed these two by TLJ or whenever he was in his prime. A scarcity of feats doesn't mean we conclude weakness, it means we fall back on other sources like the aforementioned.

The Visual Dictionary says that Snoke thinks only a Skywalker can kill Luke, which not only implies Luke > Snoke but also that Luke has reached enough of his potential that the likes of Yoda likely can't beat him.

How is Windu > Vader in canon?

Huh?

The Ellimist

Originally posted by Lord Stark
1. That's pretty much prime Luke in canon.

Based on Mark's statement? Because I see no reason to think that actor statements are canon, and if they are we might as well use George Lucas's words that more or less state that Luke > Yoda/Sidious (he doesn't own Star Wars anymore...but neither does Mark).

DarthAnt66

More importantly, Mark can easily be referring to Luke's situation at the start of the film, not at the end.

Lord Stark

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Based on Mark's statement? Because I see no reason to think that actor statements are canon, and if they are we might as well use George Lucas's words that more or less state that Luke > Yoda/Sidious (he doesn't own Star Wars anymore...but neither does Mark).

Eh I mean Mark's statement is part of it, but more along the lines of we don't really have many feats for Luke at this point, and his greatest ones are certainly as of ROTJ.

The Ellimist

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Eh I mean Mark's statement is part of it, but more along the lines of we don't really have many feats for Luke at this point, and his greatest ones are certainly as of ROTJ.

He has the most impressive Force feat in the films in TLJ, but even ignoring that we're taking "feats and nothing else" to an absurd extreme. Cue whether you seriously think Black Widow > Thanos in the MCU.

Lord Stark

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He has the most impressive Force feat in the films in TLJ, but even ignoring that we're taking "feats and nothing else" to an absurd extreme. Cue whether you seriously think Black Widow > Thanos in the MCU.

But certainly not within the composite canon mythos which has the likes of Yoda moving mountains. Thanos is explicitly stated as being the most powerful being in the universe, and we know he can wield Infinity Stones.

In comparison, Luke simply has "one of the most powerful Jedi" which is an accolade that is given to everyone from Kit Fisto to Mace Windu. +Luke as per Yoda has barely even read the Jedi texts. Compared with someone like Dooku who has been a member of the Jedi Council and had access to the vast collection of knowledge in the Jedi Archives. I don't see Luke as superior to the likes of Windu and Dooku who sat on the council and had access to a cornucopia of knowledge.

The Ellimist

Originally posted by Lord Stark
But certainly not within the composite canon mythos which has the likes of Yoda moving mountains.

He moves mountains in Canon? When?

Anyway, Luke's projection feat particularly stands out because it's in a medium where demonstrations of the Force are consistently toned down. We can wait for the literature for more (there's already that passage where Luke brings down a star destroyer, but it's not clear how embellished it is).

Ah, so accolades do matter. Then we know from in and out of universe accolades that Luke has the potential of his father, or close to it, and it's not difficult from the fact that he was matching Vader in 1.5 years of training to infer that he has surpassed Sidious, let alone Dooku.

The texts in those temple I'm pretty sure very few characters have ever read, given that its location wasn't on the record.

In knowledge it's debatable (we don't know what Luke does after RotJ - in Legends for example he probably has more knowledge than Dooku or Windu). But in raw power it's not even close. There's a reason why Sidious wanted to replace Vader with Luke.

DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Lord Stark
But certainly not within the composite canon mythos which has the likes of Yoda moving mountains.
I thought I debunked that?

Yoda's best TK feat is lifting the X-Wing in Empire Strikes Back.

DarthAnt66

Anyway, I forget where I put my debunking.

I found this though, which is similar and sufficient: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/debunking-yodas-mountain-feat-1901225/

Lord Stark

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He moves mountains in Canon? When?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=641474&pagenumber=1

Yeah in the Legends of Luke Skywalker, we'll have to see about that though.

GL accolades only really apply within the context of films in which he was actively involved.

Doesn't really matter considering he never read them.

Sure, but it doesn't seem like he really reached that potential.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Anyway, I forget where I put my debunking.

I found this though, which is similar and sufficient: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/debunking-yodas-mountain-feat-1901225/

That doesn't seem to debunk anything. While sure Yoda does use the planet and the others to commune with it, he is very clearly using TK to stop the Mountain, which is why the ground around him is shattered and the rocks around him are floating. That doesn't happen with just telepathy.

The Ellimist

"It doesn't seem like he really reached that potential" - and exactly what would Luke have done in TLJ had he been at that potential that he didn't do?

DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Lord Stark
That doesn't seem to debunk anything. While sure Yoda does use the planet and the others to commune with it, he is very clearly using TK to stop the Mountain, which is why the ground around him is shattered and the rocks around him are floating. That doesn't happen with just telepathy.
Did you even read the thread?

And no, I couldn't disagree more. It's not telekinesis and frankly there's no reason to believe it is, everything else aside, given the feat is wildly different in scale than any other telekinetic feat we've seen in Star Wars Canon (Skywalkers aside). The explanation provided in the thread is far more reasonable since it explains the feat without having Yoda ridiculously and inconsistently powerful. It's stated in the Attack of the Clones script that Yoda had to use all his power to move that crane. It's obvious, then, that with telekinesis he could not lift a mountain.

DarthAnt66

When did Yoda state that? I saw the film four times and don't recall that line whatsoever.

DarthAnt66

L: Master Yoda.
Y: Young Skywalker.
L: I'm ending all of this. The tree, the text, the Jedi. I'm gonna burn it down.
Y: Ah, Skywalker. Missed you, have I.
L: So it is time for the Jedi Order to end.
Y: Time it is. For you to look past a pile of old books, hmm?
L: The sacred Jedi texts.
Y: Oh. Read them, have you? Page-turners they were not. Yes, yes, yes. Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess. Skywalker, still looking to the horizon. Never here, now, hmm? The need in front of your nose.
L: I was weak. Unwise.
Y: Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we must not.
L: I can't be what she needs me to be.
Y: Heeded my words not, did you? Pass on what you have learned. Strength, mastery. But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.

erm

Lord Stark

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
When did Yoda state that? I saw the film four times and don't recall that line whatsoever.

Your transcript is missing Luke's line where he says "I was getting to it" or something around those lines.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Did you even read the thread?

And no, I couldn't disagree more. It's not telekinesis and frankly there's no reason to believe it is, everything else aside, given the feat is wildly different in scale than any other telekinetic feat we've seen in Star Wars Canon (Skywalkers aside). The explanation provided in the thread is far more reasonable since it explains the feat without having Yoda ridiculously and inconsistently powerful. It's stated in the Attack of the Clones script that Yoda had to use all his power to move that crane. It's obvious, then, that with telekinesis he could not lift a mountain.

Yeah, I did. Nothing in there really suggests it being mutually exclusive. Also doesn't explain why there is a massive crack in exactly where Yoda is standing and why rocks around him being to levitate. Star Wars isn't consistent, what a shocker.

And even given that, you'd still have Yoda channeling the power of an entire planet.

DarthAnt66

https://the123movies.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi/

Around 1:22:00

No, the transcript isn't missing anything. Luke just stutters incoherently.

The Ellimist

To be fair Yoda was rusty and had just fought Dooku in AotC while lifting that crane.

But I do think there needs to be a better way to "convert" movie and non-movie feats because they're clearly disproportionate.

Lord Stark

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
https://the123movies.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi/

Around 1:22:00

No, the transcript isn't missing anything. Luke just stutters incoherently.

Are you deaf? It's not incoherent at all.

"Read them have you?"
"Well I..."
Then Yoda interrupts him then. He clearly hasn't read them.

DarthAnt66

How does, "well I" and then him mumbling off mean he hasn't read them?

Hell, there's even a segment in the TLJ VD with a picture of the ancient Jedi texts and it follows with, "Skywalker's studies revealed..."

The books weren't originally in the trees. Luke collected the books from various sources and put them all together.

The Ellimist

I wonder how Yoda read them. Was there a copy in the Jedi Archives, did he visit Ach To himself, or did he read them as a ghost lol. EDIT: oh, ok.

DarthAnt66

The Official Collector's Edition for The Last Jedi states Luke "consults" the ancient Jedi texts, also.

He's absolutely read them.

Lord Stark

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
How does, "well I" and then him mumbling off mean he hasn't read them?

Hell, there's even a segment in the TLJ VD with a picture of the ancient Jedi texts and it follows with, "Skywalker's studies revealed..."

The books weren't originally in the trees. Luke collected the books from various
sources and put them all together.

Anyone with a basic understanding of language can understand that. Why the **** else would Yoda be asking "read them have you?" like a teacher asking his student if he did his homework. Do you have a link for the VD leaks, I can't find mine.

Also that doesn't mean shit, I've studied the Paradise Lost, but I've never read them in their entirety.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Official Collector's Edition for The Last Jedi states Luke "consults" the ancient Jedi texts, also.

He's absolutely read them.

Link please. And even if he read them, the film makes it clear that it was by no means through to completion.