Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Legends (which includes novelizations)
Sabers + passive Force powers only
Full heal blah blah blah

1. DoE Bane
2. RotJ Vader
3. TCW Mace Windu
4. Darth Caedus
5. RotS Sidious
6. DE Sidious
7. TUF Luke
8. LotF Luke
9. Oneness Jacen Solo

7 & 8 are 50/50, he dies at 9.

5 is 50/50; dies at 6.

LMAO.

I'm being generous; a lot of people would argue that he wasn't RotS Palpatine's equal, and that he was flat-out inferior.

Those people are directly contradicting Canon.

5 but Anakin can win.

Clears

4

Originally posted by AncientPower
7 & 8 are 50/50, he dies at 9.

Why's that?

6 or 7 for the minority

6 or 7

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Why's that?

Because everybody prior to 7 has fvck all chance of surviving KF!Vader in pure sabers.

But what does he have to put him on Luke's level, or DE Sidious's?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
But what does he have to put him on Luke's level, or DE Sidious's?

Still not sure on whether Palpatine's speed feats during DE are so much better than in RotJ that he'd surpass Knightfall Vader

Originally posted by Azronger
Still not sure on whether Palpatine's speed feats during DE are so much better than in RotJ that he'd surpass Knightfall Vader

He grows stronger from RotS -> RotJ, then RotJ -> DE, and is in a younger body. It's not trivial to conclude that KF Vader is superior just because some quotes suggest he was above RotS Sidious.

Nah, KF Vader is pretty soldily beyond RotS Sidious in sabers. Not sure if DE Palpatine can eclipse that just because he's infinitely more powerful in the Force.

Originally posted by Azronger
Nah, KF Vader is pretty soldily beyond RotS Sidious in sabers. Not sure if DE Palpatine can eclipse that just because he's infinitely more powerful in the Force.

Wait, are you kidding? "Infinitely more powerful in the Force" seems to matter quite a bit, but sorry if I'm missing the sarcasm.

No sarcasm, just that I don't think he's definitively beyond KF Anakin in just based on that. Not that I don't think he could be, I'm just not too confident to make that conclusion with too vague evidence

The literature seems confused over Knightfall Vader / Anakin vs. RotS Sidious, given that some sources say Vader, some say Sidious, Sidious himself says Vader eventually but not yet, etc. I tend to reconcile these into "Vader has more sheer power but Sidious is still all-around more "powerful" practically", and say that Knightfall Vader would win in sabers because that tends to favor the former.

But DE Sidious is sufficiently above RotS Sidious that I think it's a stretch to say Vader would still win.

Feats would suggest even base Anakin > Sidious, though, given how he clobbered Dooku

Not base Anakin.

Yes

Stops at DE Sidious.

Not convinced that Luke > Sidious. At least not as of TUF.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Not convinced that Luke > Sidious. At least not as of TUF.

As a duelist I'm pretty sure he surpasses Sidious before then.

It's certainly possible, but Sidious has better feats, honestly.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
It's certainly possible, but Sidious has better feats, honestly.

I mean Luke kinda has the best feat...beating DE Sidious. And he's grown far more powerful since.

(with some battle meditation from an untrained Leia that just unlocked some of his potential, it wasn't played as that significant and IIRC some sources don't even bother to mention it)

Well, outside of this circumstancial feat, Sidious' feats are better. Luke is arguably better based on scaling, though.
As in, he should be better, but it isn't exactly clear

bump

1. DoE Bane - wins easily
2. RotJ Vader - wins easily
3. TCW Mace Windu - wins
4. Darth Caedus - wins
5. RotS Sidious - 50/50
6. DE Sidious - 50/50
7. TUF Luke - loses in a great fight
8. LotF Luke - up
9. Oneness Jacen Solo - fail

What evidence/quotes are out there to suggest KF Vader is greater than rots sidious in sabers? Is there hard proof?

I always pegged him above above Dooku and Mace, but less than Yoda and Sidious.

Originally posted by gold slorg
5. RotS Sidious - 50/50
6. DE Sidious - 50/50


Why 50/50 for both of them?

DE is more powerful.

dies at 5 after a ok battle; KF Vader is unhinged remember... hes basically drunk with power and Sidious would clip his wings no prob

Sorry, my computer posted something twice.

-

Originally posted by Azronger
Feats would suggest even base Anakin > Sidious, though, given how he clobbered Dooku

Bane uses Dun Moch and Anakin crumbles.

Dooku essentially disabled Ani by calling him a pretender, kek.

Originally posted by Forschbewithu
I always pegged him above above Dooku and Mace, but less than Yoda and Sidious.
So a gap that doesn't exist?

Originally posted by AncientPower
7 & 8 are 50/50, he dies at 9.