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ROTS Obi Wan
TPM Darth Maul

vs.

ROTS Dooku

Who wins?

Dooku just does what he was doing at the beginning of the RotS duel to one of them, and then the other isn't winning one on one.

Pure sabers? Not sure.

Team takes pure sabers pretty solidly.

All out depends on how coordinated they are, but they should still take it pretty much every single time.

Team.

I mean why couldn't Dooku take out Obi Wan again and best Maul one on one? He does this against Anakin and Obi Wan, he just loses to Anakin solo.

Dooku can't just take out Obi-Wan on the whim, ffs.

If it's not pure sabers, Dooku wins the majority I would think.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku can't just take out Obi-Wan on the whim, ffs.

So he got lucky?

Team.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
So he got lucky?

He caught Kenobi off-guard with the Force, he himself concedes that he'd never be able to penetrate his Soresu.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He caught Kenobi off-guard with the Force, he himself concedes that he'd never be able to penetrate his Soresu.

Right, so we're concluding that he got lucky and wouldn't catch him off guard most times / 10?

Well he's not 1 v 1 here though.

Dooku

Maul is a weak link

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Right, so we're concluding that he got lucky and wouldn't catch him off guard most times / 10?


Plus, Dooku still has to engage in a duel with Obi-Wan to set up a situation where Obi-Wan is cut off-guard.

He can't just discard him on the whim like you implied.

Originally posted by carthage
Dooku

Maul is a weak link I agree.

Dooku>>>>>>>>Kenobi>>Maul.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I agree.

Dooku>>>>>>>>Kenobi>>Maul.


You think Prequel Kenobi is already >> Maul?

Look at the difference between Kenobi and Dooku on his scale, lol.

Besides, this is TPM Maul. Someone I consider to be noticeably, if not significantly inferior to TCW Maul in the relevant aspects.

There's a strong argument that the opposite is true.

Dooku stomps

Obi Wan has always been susceptible to TK; Maul gets him with it in TPM and Dooku gets him in ROTS

Maul solos.

@Thor because Maul is older, wiser and much more rage filled than he originally was... I mean he was almost a mute in ep 1 and all of a sudden hes a schemer and a leader in TCW, dont let the state hes found in fool you; clearly he developed in some ways over the 10 years he was away

Originally posted by AncientPower
He caught Kenobi off-guard with the Force, he himself concedes that he'd never be able to penetrate his Soresu.
Soresu being a lightsaber form...

Yes, in a duel Dooku gets stonewalled by Kenobi. In the Force, Dooku can only incapacitate him by doing essentially what would take out anyone. Catching him off-guard.

In other words, Dooku was certainly lucky.

Dooku takes this. Even in the late Clone Wars Dooku absolutely rapes Kenobi with kicks and grabs alone even without abusing his force advantage. And Maul is no match for Dooku alone.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He caught Kenobi off-guard with the Force, he himself concedes that he'd never be able to penetrate his Soresu.

That's one interpretation of RotS that isn't agreed with by anything else, and at least one source disagrees.

Originally posted by AncientPower
In the Force, Dooku can only incapacitate him by doing essentially what would take out anyone. Catching him off-guard.

Where in the senior novel was it implied Dooku caught Kenobi off guard? All I got from it was that Dooku was too fast for Kenobi, not sure why that isn't applicable here.

If you want to make an argument for Kenobi being too powerful for Dooku to ragdoll, you're better off using this:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/lordofthelight/blog/why-was-obi-wan-kenobi-able-to-contend-with-darth-/132468/

Dooku should be able to ragdoll them both, he'd lose a lightsabers only fight though.

Dooku mauls them with full powers. Obi-Wan carries the saber fight.

Originally posted by Bentley
Dooku mauls them with full powers. Obi-Wan carries the saber fight.
Since when was Kenobi a substantially better duelist than Maul?

Obi-Wan at RoTS did beat Vader which is something I don't think Maul could replicate. His defensive style and experience is a much needed asset to match Dooku, who is strong at finding openings in his opponents.

Nova still in denial.

I've always wondered, if Vader lost a lot of force potential from losing limbs, did Maul lost some of his connection when his lower half got chopped off?

Originally posted by samappo
I've always wondered, if Vader lost a lot of force potential from losing limbs, did Maul lost some of his connection when his lower half got chopped off?

According to Chee no.

Originally posted by Bentley
Obi-Wan at RoTS did beat Vader which is something I don't think Maul could replicate. His defensive style and experience is a much needed asset to match Dooku, who is strong at finding openings in his opponents.
Lol, Dooku's pierced his guard many a time with ease.

Makashi is perfectly suited to take down Soresu.

Originally posted by Greysentinel365
According to Chee no.
Shit really? That's kinda stupid then... I always assumed he had.

Originally posted by Not_a_sock
Lol, Dooku's pierced his guard many a time with ease.

Makashi is perfectly suited to take down Soresu.

He did that to a defensive master, just imagine how easily he'd chop poor Maul

Also, RotS Obi > AotC Obi, Dooku never pierced the former with pure saber skills.

Seeing you in SWVF is just weird for some reason.

Originally posted by Not_a_sock
Since when was Kenobi a substantially better duelist than Maul? I'm not going to speculate on the gap, but given that TCW Kenobi was the one getting in the hits and doing the most damage physically in their duels, I see no reason to think that edge dissapeared as off ROTS.

Originally posted by Greysentinel365
According to Chee no.
That is not what chee said. Chee didn't say anything regarding potential. What Chee said was that their wasn't a loss in actualized power.

^ And even that was after a massive rage boost by both.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He caught Kenobi off-guard with the Force, he himself concedes that he'd never be able to penetrate his Soresu.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes, in a duel Dooku gets stonewalled by Kenobi. In the Force, Dooku can only incapacitate him by doing essentially what would take out anyone. Catching him off-guard.

In other words, Dooku was certainly lucky.

Man, you really believe in what you just written? Kenobi's fanboy or Dooku's hater?
Dooku was unable to penetrate Kenobi's Soresu, was a lucky that he was even able to succesfuly use the Force against him. Skywalker's Djem So is too strong for Dooku, even without DS boost. And more, and more BS, ye?

In a booku (which should't be conisder as a canon, since the fight shown there was totaly different than that one from the movie.
That's really funny, in the movie, Dooku outmanuvered both, Anakin and Obi-Wan, created the openings, kicked Skywalker away and Force choked Kenobi. But no! He coulnd't ! how?! Lucky!
Then, we have a book, where Kenobi was deciribed as the master of Soresu. Your logic? Dooku couln't penetrate that! He couldn't! How?! In a movie, he was unable! And now, movie matters and the fact, that exhausted and hard-pressed by Skywalker Dooku was able to penetrate Kenobi's defense with a simple kick, and superior speed doesn't matter? He did that twice, btw. I na Clone Wars too. And what? LUCKY! Kenobi was in disadvantage, because Dooku's superior was helping him!.

Dooku from ROTS/AOTC/Oba Diah takes clear majority, perhaps even 10/10. Kenobi will have an inferior syngergy with Maul, and Maul is not as strong as Anakin.

lul

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
lul

Your post makes no sense.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Dooku just does what he was doing at the beginning of the RotS duel to one of them, and then the other isn't winning one on one.


Spot on.

all out Dooku beats em, he was pretty solidly handling Anakin and ObiWan at the same time no reason to think the same wouldn't happen here

ok well if youre gonna bring in Clone Wars then you cant discount Dooku fighting off the Nightsister assassins while drugged, or how he schooled Obi and Ani on Oba Diah with a brigade of Pikes also joining in against him as well.

Fact is Tyranus is a beast and hes ALWAYS had Obi Wans number, there hasn't been an encounter between the two that he hasn't decisively dominated Kenobi; Maul will help out a bit but he doesn't have any synergy with Obi Wan and hes still an inferior swordsman to Dooku as well seeing as how he got beat by Kenobi with Savage in the fight as well...

Dooku, probably. If he can remove Obi-Wan he then has a pretty good fight with Maul which he wins.

Yeah, it really depends on how well and for how long Dooku can take out one of these two. It's an even split for me; I can see Maul and Obi keeping the pressure up so that he doesn't take one out of the game for too long, if at all, and then they whittle him down.

Obi Wan leads the team to a grueling win.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Obi Wan leads the team to a grueling win. It'll be hard to do that while he's buried underneath a walkway.

Originally posted by ILS
It'll be hard to do that while he's buried underneath a walkway.

I'd like to set the record straight for him in these aspects, but a lengthy argument spanning countless large posts, I don't have time for right now. Got to get my grades back to the top and then I'll have some fun.

I'm all for it and it being presented concisely.

This duo will have sh1t sync energy. I see this playing out similarly to Dooku vs Kenobi and Anakin on Oba Diah initially, only this time Dooku won't be able to run away when he begins to tire.

Dooku would have to resort to telekinesis or martial arts to get Kenobi off his back in order to deal with Maul due to the former's impenetrable Soresu as this point.

Separating the duo shouldn't be too difficult considering how uncoordinated they'd be with Maul's aggressive juyo, coupled with a cumbersome saber staff, trying to mesh with Kenobi's defensive Soresu all while trying to land a blow on a master of footwork and strike-dodging.

Kenobi would be forced to go on the offensive to keep up and aid Maul, which would in turn expose him to a variety of tricks up Dooku's sleeve. Remember, it's whenever Kenobi gets aggressive that he gets manhandled.

I see Kenobi as a hindrance to Maul more than anything. Hell, Maul and Savage made a mediocore team to begin with. Just rewatch Sidious vs the duo. They were uncoordinated in their attack sequences and easily separated. Same can be said for their Florum fight with Kenobi.

Dooku has a better chance of winning when they're together IMO.

When he downs Kenobi, it'll just be Maul v. Dooku which is the determining factor.

Maul and Savage were actually pretty well coordinated against Sheev, visually, they were just outclassed.

I would give Maul and Savage the win just because their strengths mesh together properly and will cause serious issues for Dooku. As you point out this isn't so much the case with Kenobi.

Originally posted by relentless1
and hes still an inferior swordsman to Dooku as well seeing as how he got beat by Kenobi with Savage in the fight as well...


Dooku is the superior fencer, but Maul has an unorthodox weapon and superior martial prowess on his side.

Yeah but Dooku struggled against Ventress and Savage. So by all accounts he wouldnt stand a chance against Maul and Savage.

That Maul was also still in recovery and limited by his chicken legs. Even more so in a confined area.

So pointless example to bring up on Dookus behalf.


True though about Dooku always having had Kenobis Number. But Kenobis also never gone into full defence mode against Dooku, which is when Kenobi fights at his best.

I like how willing people are to use Kenobi as the sole benchmark for Maul and Dooku, but conveniently ignore that Maul godstomped Savage, who flattened Dooku.

It's almost like styles make fights or something.

Dooku oneshots Maul and then outduels Kenobi

Originally posted by ILS
I like how willing people are to use Kenobi as the sole benchmark for Maul and Dooku, but conveniently ignore that Maul godstomped Savage, who flattened Dooku.

It's almost like styles make fights or something. And Dooku godstomped Savage as well. Savage is an unrefined brute; anyone can destroy him in saber finesse.

He only defeated Dooku through telekinetic rage.

Originally posted by carthage
Dooku oneshots Maul and then outduels Kenobi

Based on??

Originally posted by Kurk
And Dooku godstomped Savage as well. Savage is an unrefined brute; anyone can destroy him in saber finesse.

He only defeated Dooku through telekinetic rage.
Kenobi has had many opportunities to stomp him and hasn't, nor have Ventress or Anakin. He flattened Dooku fair and square, there was no rage amp or telekinesis involved. He's just a bad match up for him.

The only people who have stomped him outside of his most basic training days are Maul and Sidious.

Originally posted by ILS
Kenobi has had many opportunities to stomp him and hasn't, nor have Ventress or Anakin. He flattened Dooku fair and square, there was no rage amp or telekinesis involved. He's just a bad match up for him.

The only people who have stomped him outside of his most basic training days are Maul and Sidious. lol you can hear the telekinesis booms in the video.

Here: https://youtu.be/7s3x8ox2ToE?t=2m40s


It's no different than when Dooku uses the force to aid his repulsions of Anakin like this:

https://youtu.be/eQATBFIZ13o?t=1m46s

or

https://youtu.be/eQATBFIZ13o?t=3m14s

Do these feats mean Dooku is stronger than Anakin?


Before Savage's "most basic training days" he single-handily defeated a jedi master and his padawan using a basic melee weapon utilizing speed, strength, and maneuvering ability.

Dooku stomping him after that mission is a valid feat as Savage already possesses enough skill at that point to do what some fully trained jedi cannot.

Originally posted by Kurk
lol you can hear the telekinesis booms in the video.

Here: https://youtu.be/7s3x8ox2ToE?t=2m40s
Aside from the fact that's still a very impressive feat?

https://youtu.be/7s3x8ox2ToE?t=1m14s

I meant this, which was without any "rage amps" or "telekinesis."
The danger of making assumptions is you end up attacking strawman arguments.
Horseshit. The only time we see Dooku stomp Savage is the first time we see Savage using a lightsaber, which, btw, is after a few months of incredibly hasty training to begin with. If Dooku was truly capable of stomping him, he wouldn't have been flattened as shown earlier.

But sure, keep attacking strawman arguments and pretending defeating Knox and Halsey is relevant.

Obi-Wan was more or less irrelevant all three times he fought Dooku. There is zero reason to believe that he would be any more of a threat here. He is not powerful enough to withstand a concentrated Force attack from Dooku, and he also falls behind in lightsaber skill. The team also lacks synergy {especially with regards to fighting styles}, and while Maul is an incredibly skilled lightsaber combatant, he, similarly to Obi-Wan, lacks the power to ultimately compete with Dooku. Decent fight.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Obi-Wan was more or less irrelevant all three times he fought Dooku. There is zero reason to believe that he would be any more of a threat here.

To begin with, Anakin and Obi-Wan did well, pushing Dooku back and destroying the B2 droids. Realizing that each Jedi was a threat on their own, Dooku abruptly switched tactics.
The Star Wars Vehicle Collection #32

mmm

Maul wins.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
To begin with, Anakin and Obi-Wan did well, pushing Dooku back and destroying the B2 droids. Realizing that each Jedi was a threat on their own, Dooku abruptly switched tactics.
The Star Wars Vehicle Collection #32

mmm
Fair point, but I fail to see how the source comes to that conclusion. Dooku twice removed Obi-Wan from the fight, and had he been on his own, Dooku would have killed him in about 10 seconds. Sources are not always accurate in situations such as these {for example, I think it was a Fact File that claimed that Yoda and Dooku could not defeat each other in Force combat, and another source stated that Mace had to give everything he had to beat Ventress}. So I question the remark and I believe that my case is adequately described above.

That said, I suppose I am willing to concede my phrasing, but the rest of my post still stands. Would you mind sharing the entire excerpt, though?

Originally posted by ILS
Aside from the fact that's still a very impressive feat?

https://youtu.be/7s3x8ox2ToE?t=1m14s

I meant this, which was without any "rage amps" or "telekinesis."

A great illustration of the mismatch between the elegance of Dooku and the raw strength of Savage. He does something similar to both Obi-Wan and Kenobi later. Anyway, Dooku was foolish to try to directly block Savage's overhead strike like that single-handed. During their brief scrimmage Maul deflected, guiding away, Savage's two strikes rather than meeting it head-on, presumably knowing better than to go head-to-head with someone physically larger and stronger. It was due to a combination of Maul's craftiness and Savage's poor defenses that he proved his dominance.

Originally posted by ILS

Horseshit. The only time we see Dooku stomp Savage is the first time we see Savage using a lightsaber, which, btw, is after a few months of incredibly hasty training to begin with. If Dooku was truly capable of stomping him, he wouldn't have been flattened as shown earlier.

But sure, keep attacking strawman arguments and pretending defeating Knox and Halsey is relevant.

Why is it horseshit? Opress clearly possessed enough skill prior to his handling of an actual lightsaber to out-move and over-power two jedi. The nightsisters who attacked Dooku with Ventress were also presumably using lightsabers for the first time, yet they performed exceptionally well against someone considered to be second or third to Yoda in light-saber combat.

The way I see it, Dooku was stomping Opress the entire time during that fight by dodging every single one of his attacks. He only made contact with him during that one head-on block which ended badly, not due to a lack of skill, but a physical deficit.

What are you arguing again?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
To begin with, Anakin and Obi-Wan did well, pushing Dooku back and destroying the B2 droids. Realizing that each Jedi was a threat on their own, Dooku abruptly switched tactics.
The Star Wars Vehicle Collection #32

mmm
Context?

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Fair point, but I fail to see how the source comes to that conclusion. Dooku twice removed Obi-Wan from the fight, and had he been on his own, Dooku would have killed him in about 10 seconds. Sources are not always accurate in situations such as these {for example, I think it was a Fact File that claimed that Yoda and Dooku could not defeat each other in Force combat, and another source stated that Mace had to give everything he had to beat Ventress}. So I question the remark and I believe that my case is adequately described above.

He got in a Force push once that did nothing to Kenobi, it's not any more impressive than Yoda force pushing Sidious, and we know how that turned out. As for the 2nd one, there are 2 sources implying Kenobi could've countered Dooku's choke, but it was just too fast. In an other source he doesn't even ragdoll just got a lucky force push that knocks Kenobi out. Couple that with my above quote and the fact that they are both Tier 8 combatants and Dooku ain't stomping Kenobi on the regular basis.


Originally posted by ~Quesin~
That said, I suppose I am willing to concede my phrasing, but the rest of my post still stands. Would you mind sharing the entire excerpt, though?

I don't have it, ask Myth.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
and had he been on his own, Dooku would have killed him in about 10 seconds.


Unsubstantiated.

Had Kenobi been on his own and fought fully defensively like he did against ROTS Anakin or against Rebels Maul, then theres little to suggest Dooku would stomp.

Originally posted by Kurk
Context?

What context? That quote is blatantly clear.

I mean, here I am crafting arguments( generally speaking, not right now) for Kenobi to be close to Dooku, and here there is discussion going on about him stomping outright.

https://i.imgur.com/SqlJvlO.jpg

excellent

Dooku stomps

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9ce78852df3b6ffbefbc8bd3a40ba43f-c

Dooku can win if Maul is chained up without his weapon. That's about the only way that cuck gets a W over Maul.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dooku can win if Maul is chained up without his weapon. That's about the only way that cuck gets a W over Maul.

Chained up? Cuck? You have something you want to tell us quan?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Chained up? Cuck? You have something you want to tell us quan? Maul wins but I already told you that so why repeat myself over and over. Dooku is inferior to Maul in fair combat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul wins but I already told you that so why repeat myself over and over. Dooku is inferior to Maul in fair combat.

No I think you know what I'm talking about. The other thing. You have cuckhold fantasies don't you?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No I think you know what I'm talking about. The other thing. You have cuckhold fantasies don't you? No, Dooku is a cuck and Maul isn't. We have been over this. Maul kills the cuck.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
What context? That quote is blatantly clear. Which encounter is it referring to?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Unsubstantiated.

Had Kenobi been on his own and fought fully defensively like he did against ROTS Anakin or against Rebels Maul, then theres little to suggest Dooku would stomp.
How does fighting defensively render him less likely to get taken out by a Force attack?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
He got in a Force push once that did nothing to Kenobi,
Actually, Kenobi is out of the fight for circa 7 seconds. If Anakin hadn't been there, what would have stopped Dooku from simply taking his lightsaber from him, and then killing him?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
it's not any more impressive than Yoda force pushing Sidious, and we know how that turned out.
I pointed to the fact that Dooku momentarily removed Obi-Wan from the fight so swiftly as part of my argument as to why I take issue with the source you referenced. In the movie, Yoda clearly demonstrated skill and power that, logically, would warrant him the status as a ''threat'' to Sidious. Obi-Wan hardly did, so I disagree with your comparison.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
As for the 2nd one, there are 2 sources implying Kenobi could've countered Dooku's choke, but it was just too fast.
I'm not exactly sure what your point is... Dooku was too fast for Obi-Wan. Is there reason to believe, in another instance, Kenobi would be able to resist the attack?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
In an other source he doesn't even ragdoll just got a lucky force push that knocks Kenobi out.
It doesn't really matter if you deem it a ''ragdoll'' or a Force push. The end result is the same - that Obi-Wan got knocked out, as you mention.


Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Couple that with my above quote and the fact that they are both Tier 8 combatants and Dooku ain't stomping Kenobi on the regular basis.
I disagree. Perhaps ''stomp'' is a borderline extreme term but he did take out Kenobi twice in the same fight, while simultaneously dealing with Anakin. In TCW, he was also almost knocked out, and would have been if Anakin had not intervened. So I fail to see how he competes with Dooku.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
How does fighting defensively render him less likely to get taken out by a Force attack?


I actually don't remember from Stover's novel whether Dooku overpowers Kenobi with the Force, moves too quickly for him, or just catches him off guard, in order of how big of a disparity it implies.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I actually don't remember from Stover's novel whether Dooku overpowers Kenobi with the Force, moves too quickly for him, or just catches him off guard, in order of how big of a disparity it implies.
In the RotS novel by Stover, Dooku kicks Obi-Wan down the stairs, then uses to Force to send him crashing into the balcony. In the junior adaption, Obi-Wan attempts to counter Dooku's Force attack, but the attack was ''too sudden''. Whether he would have been able to succesfully counter the Force attack is not mentioned.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Actually, Kenobi is out of the fight for circa 7 seconds. If Anakin hadn't been there, what would have stopped Dooku from simply taking his lightsaber from him, and then killing him?

Dooku pushed Kenobi in one direction then moved to an other. It's painfully obvious why that wouldn't work in a 1on1.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
I pointed to the fact that Dooku momentarily removed Obi-Wan from the fight so swiftly as part of my argument as to why I take issue with the source you referenced. In the movie, Yoda clearly demonstrated skill and power that, logically, would warrant him the status as a ''threat'' to Sidious. Obi-Wan hardly did, so I disagree with your comparison.

Excpet there's nothing impressive about force pushing someone away for a few seconds. It happens all the time.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
I'm not exactly sure what your point is... Dooku was too fast for Obi-Wan. Is there reason to believe, in another instance, Kenobi would be able to resist the attack?

The point is that Dooku can't overpower Kenobi on a whim.


Originally posted by ~Quesin~
It doesn't really matter if you deem it a ''ragdoll'' or a Force push. The end result is the same - that Obi-Wan got knocked out, as you mention.

It does matter, because in the novel Kenobi was only knocked out because:
1. Dooku had the highground and kicked Kenobi in the face
2. This left Kenobi open for an empowered force push
3. When Kenobi smashed into the wall it buckled on top of him

Even in the movie if the railing wasn't there Kenobi might've not been knocked out.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
I disagree. Perhaps ''stomp'' is a borderline extreme term but he did take out Kenobi twice in the same fight, while simultaneously dealing with Anakin. In TCW, he was also almost knocked out, and would have been if Anakin had not intervened. So I fail to see how he competes with Dooku.

TCW is pre-prime so doesn't matter. His 1st force push is useless because literally anyone can do that. His ragdoll was circumstantial. And there are 2 sources saying/implying Kenobi can compete with Dooku.

Superficial analysis of the movie duel that lacks context doesn't hold water to the above.

Originally posted by Kurk
Which encounter is it referring to?

RotS. That's when Dooku switches tactics, isn't it?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Dooku pushed Kenobi in one direction then moved to an other. It's painfully obvious why that wouldn't work in a 1on1.
... Because he went on to fight Anakin. No, it's not really obvious why, in a 1 vs. 1, knocking someone out with a Force push and then using the Force again to remove their weapons and then killing them would not work. It sounds pretty logical to me, but perhaps you could elaborate?


Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Excpet there's nothing impressive about force pushing someone away for a few seconds. It happens all the time.
Why do you keep using the word ''impressive''? We're hardly comparing feats and accolades here, but rather discussing the nature of the fight in question. And what is your point that it happens all the time? Not really a rational response. I already explained why your Yoda vs. Sidious comparison is faulty {which you did not address}, so perhaps you could make another, better comparison instead?



Originally posted by cs_zoltan
The point is that Dooku can't overpower Kenobi on a whim.
But he already did? You really haven't explained why Dooku can't do that again.


Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It does matter, because in the novel Kenobi was only knocked out because:
1. Dooku had the highground and kicked Kenobi in the face
2. This left Kenobi open for an empowered force push
3. When Kenobi smashed into the wall it buckled on top of him
And in the junior novel, Obi-Wan was too slow to defend Dooku's attack. And in the movie {which stands above}, Obi-Wan was not knocked out by a kick first, he was simply taken in a Force choke and then thrown away.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Even in the movie if the railing wasn't there Kenobi might've not been knocked out.
Obi-Wan didn't move an inch from the time he hit the balcony to when Dooku brought it down on him. But as you said yourself, the point is whether Dooku can overpower Obi-Wan ''on a whim'', not whether Obi-Wan would have been unconscious or not had the balcony not been crashed onto him.


Originally posted by cs_zoltan
TCW is pre-prime so doesn't matter.
Pre-prime Dooku, too?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
His 1st force push is useless because literally anyone can do that.
Useless? He temporarily removed Obi-Wan from the fight, which would have been a good opportunity to end it, had Anakin not been there. That doesn't sound useless to me, but okay.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
His ragdoll was circumstantial.
Mind elaborating as to why the circumstances were against Kenobi, when it was Dooku who was fighting 1 vs. 2?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
And there are 2 sources saying/implying Kenobi can compete with Dooku.
That may or may not be true, but if ''competing'' is the same as what Kenobi does in the movie, choice of word hardly matters. In any case I question the validity of the quotes, for the same reason as with the first one you provided. But again, post the quotes?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Superficial analysis of the movie duel that lacks context doesn't hold water to the above.
?

I already said that I conceded that Kenobi might be a ''threat'' to Kenobi {due to your quote}, but that I took issue with it nonetheless. I pointed you to the duel, in which Dooku makes him appear as the exact opposite, and have reasonably argued why I find that my stance is fair. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to agree with me, but you haven't provided a fair and decent argument as to why that is, in my opinion.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Dooku pushed Kenobi in one direction then moved to an other. It's painfully obvious why that wouldn't work in a 1on1.



Excpet there's nothing impressive about force pushing someone away for a few seconds. It happens all the time.



The point is that Dooku can't overpower Kenobi on a whim.




It does matter, because in the novel Kenobi was only knocked out because:
1. Dooku had the highground and kicked Kenobi in the face
2. This left Kenobi open for an empowered force push
3. When Kenobi smashed into the wall it buckled on top of him

Even in the movie if the railing wasn't there Kenobi might've not been knocked out.



TCW is pre-prime so doesn't matter. His 1st force push is useless because literally anyone can do that. His ragdoll was circumstantial. And there are 2 sources saying/implying Kenobi can compete with Dooku.

Superficial analysis of the movie duel that lacks context doesn't hold water to the above.



RotS. That's when Dooku switches tactics, isn't it? It referred to B2 droids so I was thrown off.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
... Because he went on to fight Anakin. No, it's not really obvious why, in a 1 vs. 1, knocking someone out with a Force push and then using the Force again to remove their weapons and then killing them would not work. It sounds pretty logical to me, but perhaps you could elaborate?

He didn't knock out Kenobi lmao. Kenobi fell over, then get on his feet and ran back. That's why it took so "long". Unless Dooku disengages again then all of that is irrelevant.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Why do you keep using the word ''impressive''? We're hardly comparing feats and accolades here, but rather discussing the nature of the fight in question. And what is your point that it happens all the time? Not really a rational response. I already explained why your Yoda vs. Sidious comparison is faulty {which you did not address}, so perhaps you could make another, better comparison instead?

Because you make it out to be impressive? You base your stance that Dooku can stomp Kenobi because he pushed him...

My point of it happens all the time is that it happens all the time?
Weaker force users push more powerful ones around several times in SW. Maladi vs Cade, Ventress vs Anakin, Outlander vs Arcann, Yoda vs Sidious, Sora Bulq vs Mace Windu. Do you want me to keep going?


Originally posted by ~Quesin~
But he already did? You really haven't explained why Dooku can't do that again.

I have, maybe you have comprehension issues? Dooku slipped under Kenobi's defense when he fought uncharacteristically, Kenobi could've countered it still but Dooku threw him away too fast, and then he got lucky by actually having something around to knock out Kenobi.

Since Dooku can't just power through Kenobi's shield he have to have an opportunity when Kenobi isn't expecting it, then he have to capitalize on it before Kenobi can break out, and he has to have in a situation that he can instantly knock him out. That's why he can't do that consistently. I didn't say he can't do it at all, period.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
And in the junior novel, Obi-Wan was too slow to defend Dooku's attack. And in the movie {which stands above}, Obi-Wan was not knocked out by a kick first, he was simply taken in a Force choke and then thrown away.

I addressed these already...

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Obi-Wan didn't move an inch from the time he hit the balcony to when Dooku brought it down on him. But as you said yourself, the point is whether Dooku can overpower Obi-Wan ''on a whim'', not whether Obi-Wan would have been unconscious or not had the balcony not been crashed onto him.

Your point?

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Pre-prime Dooku, too?

Yeah I'm sure the 83 year old Dooku - who mostly directed from the back, not fighting in the front line - improves as much as the 38 years old Kenobi fighting in the front lines in the most intense part of the biggest war the galaxy have ever seen...

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Useless? He temporarily removed Obi-Wan from the fight, which would have been a good opportunity to end it, had Anakin not been there. That doesn't sound useless to me, but okay.

Yeah except he couldn't have. By the time Dooku gets to Kenobi he would've already been on his feet.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Mind elaborating as to why the circumstances were against Kenobi, when it was Dooku who was fighting 1 vs. 2?

I did, several times.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
That may or may not be true, but if ''competing'' is the same as what Kenobi does in the movie, choice of word hardly matters. In any case I question the validity of the quotes, for the same reason as with the first one you provided. But again, post the quotes?

I posted one, the other is from Gillard's tier ranking. Where both Dooku and Kenobi are 8s.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
?

I already said that I conceded that Kenobi might be a ''threat'' to Kenobi {due to your quote}, but that I took issue with it nonetheless. I pointed you to the duel, in which Dooku makes him appear as the exact opposite, and have reasonably argued why I find that my stance is fair. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to agree with me, but you haven't provided a fair and decent argument as to why that is, in my opinion.

Well that's your opinion. If Dooku's concession that he can't break Kenobi's Soresu, several sources explaining why Dooku could BFR Kenobi, several sources stating Kenobi is a threat to Dooku isn't enough for you then we are done here.

So, you prioritize irrelevant nitpicking of wording on whether Kenobi was ''knocked out'' or simply Force pushed, then proceed to scream ''irrelevant'' instead of addressing what I said and answering my question?




First, your neglectance to actually read my posts is noted, and second, so is your strawman. I never said that Dooku could stomp Obi-Wan solely on the basis that he Force pushed him, but rather pointed to it to add to my point that the movie disagrees with the idea that Obi-Wan can compete with/is a threat to Dooku, and that Dooku could have capitalized more effectively had Anakin not been there.




Not really, because at this rate, all you're doing is throwing around bad comparisons with no merit. I already told you why your Yoda vs. Sidious does not work, and to reiterate, you failed to respond adequately. The fact that you base your comparisons on the notion that weaker Force adepts have Force pushed stronger ones before is utterly irrelevant, because Dooku is not weaker than Obi-Wan {unless you will contest this, of course?}. In fact, at this point you have practically moved the goalpost, because your initial response was that the Force push did nothing to Obi-Wan {when it actually did, clearly}.


Nice ad hominem, but no, you haven't. But I have a tendency to ignore bullshit, so perhaps it slipped under my radar?


Actually, per the movie, Obi-Wan simply runs up the stairs and then gets Force choked. I suppose running up a staircase is uncharacteristic for Obi-Wan, though?


Prove that he would have countered Dooku's attack successfully.


What, is Dooku gonna take his time and let Obi-Wan get an opportunity to defend himself this time? You still haven't given a good reason for why this invalidates that it happened.


... So Dooku throwing Obi-Wan across the room is less impressive and something he can't do again because, to his luck, there was a balcony for him to drop on the already seemingly unconscious Kenobi? You're seriously grasping at straws here.


Proof?


Yeah, this sentence sums up your arguing nicely. The junior RotS adaption describes the fight from mostly Kenobi's viewpoint, and how he constantly is aware of Dooku's lightsaber skills and Force powers and that they needn't his powers be any greater than they already are {his thoughts, when Anakin taunts Dooku}. But what, did Kenobi's brain turn inside out which made him, for some incomprehensible reason, not expect that Dooku might want to use those Force powers?


Which he is perfectly capable of, as shown already.


Which would be what, exactly? Does he need a set of stairs and a balcony for it to work?


If there's a good, reasonable suggestion as to why Dooku wouldn't be able to consistently shit on Kenobi with his Force powers, you haven't made it. Your argument as to why he won't is terrible. It has very little basis to support it in itself and is entirely illogical.





You haven't addressed a single thing. How can you even say this, when this is the first time I bring up the junior novel to you?



facepalm

I responded to this dismal argument of yours:



Tell me, do your own points confuse you?



Yeah, I'm sure that Dooku isn't interested in continuing to increase his Force mastery because he's 83 years old. That he wasn't on the battlefield as much as Kenobi is also a terrible point. Neither was Sidious, yet his power grew from TPM to RotS. Either apply the same standards to both characters or have a logical explanation for why you don't. This is neither.



But Dooku would already have beel able to take his lightsabers away from him, or deactivate them, or whatever he would find most effective. Good luck to Obi-Wan without his weapon and barely escaping an attempt on his life from Dooku {if that}.



In this post perhaps, but they were terrible and illogical. So no, not really.



Cool.




The difference being that I have defended my stance with reasoning and a look on the movie, in addition to addressing your points. In return you've presented a strawman, an ad hominem, completely illogical points and have decided to not address most of mine. Yeah, we're done here, broski.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
How does fighting defensively render him less likely to get taken out by a Force attack?



Because hes caught off guard with Force attacks a lot when it the offensive. Not so much on the defensive.


You know Kenobi is the Defence Master right?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because hes caught off guard with Force attacks a lot when it the offensive. Not so much on the defensive.


You know Kenobi is the Defence Master right?
Kenobi is known for his great Soresu skill, not his great defensive Force skills. And your point honestly doesn't make much sense to me. Why would he be less likely to get hit by a Force attack when he is defending compared to when he is attacking? Whether he gets caught off guard due to inferior speed, Force senses, reaction, less Force mastery or whatever, why would any of that be in relation to whether he is on the defensive or on the offensive?

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Kenobi is known for his great Soresu skill, not his great defensive Force skills. And your point honestly doesn't make much sense to me. Why would he be less likely to get hit by a Force attack when he is defending compared to when he is attacking? Whether he gets caught off guard due to inferior speed, Force senses, reaction, less Force mastery or whatever, why would any of that be in relation to whether he is on the defensive or on the offensive?


Because he fights better defensively and is less likely to get caught off guard.

Or do you have an example of Maul or Dooku TK bitching him when he was combating defensively?

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
So, you prioritize irrelevant nitpicking of wording on whether Kenobi was ''knocked out'' or simply Force pushed, then proceed to scream ''irrelevant'' instead of addressing what I said and answering my question?

How the **** is the distinction between being knock out and simply falling over irrelevant?

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
First, your neglectance to actually read my posts is noted, and second, so is your strawman. I never said that Dooku could stomp Obi-Wan solely on the basis that he Force pushed him, but rather pointed to it to add to my point that the movie disagrees with the idea that Obi-Wan can compete with/is a threat to Dooku, and that Dooku could have capitalized more effectively had Anakin not been there.

You act like a simple force push is proof that Kenobi is not a threat to Dooku. The fact that you still can't concede that proves my point.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Not really, because at this rate, all you're doing is throwing around bad comparisons with no merit. I already told you why your Yoda vs. Sidious does not work, and to reiterate, you failed to respond adequately.

You didn't show **** all. You totally missed my point. My point was that Yoda, who is weaker than Sidious, could still land a force push on him. And somehow you came to the conclusion that this makes Yoda a threat to Sidious, but Kenobi didn't demonstrate this against Dooku. And I care about that why? I didn't draw any analog between Yoda's push and Kenobi not landing a push. I drew it between Dooku and Yoda. How you could interpret it otherwise is beyond me.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
The fact that you base your comparisons on the notion that weaker Force adepts have Force pushed stronger ones before is utterly irrelevant, because Dooku is not weaker than Obi-Wan {unless you will contest this, of course?}. In fact, at this point you have practically moved the goalpost, because your initial response was that the Force push did nothing to Obi-Wan {when it actually did, clearly}.

That's the point idiot. If a weaker force user can push their superior then why the **** should anyone care that Dooku pushed Kenobi, his inferior?

By not doing anything I meant it didn't incapacitate or injure Kenobi in any form. So, practically nothing.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Nice ad hominem, but no, you haven't. But I have a tendency to ignore bullshit, so perhaps it slipped under my radar?

Yes, it's what started our whole debate:
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
As for the 2nd one, there are 2 sources implying Kenobi could've countered Dooku's choke, but it was just too fast. In an other source he doesn't even ragdoll just got a lucky force push that knocks Kenobi out. Couple that with my above quote and the fact that they are both Tier 8 combatants and Dooku ain't stomping Kenobi on the regular basis.

Maybe not comprehension issues just short term memory loss?

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Actually, per the movie, Obi-Wan simply runs up the stairs and then gets Force choked. I suppose running up a staircase is uncharacteristic for Obi-Wan, though?

And as per the novel he was attacking Dooku.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Prove that he would have countered Dooku's attack successfully.

The novel credits Dooku's choke to his speed. If the author wanted to convey that Kenobi can't break out of the choke because Dooku is too powerful then the quote would've looked like this:

He reached for the Force to counter Dooku, but the attack had been too powerful.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
What, is Dooku gonna take his time and let Obi-Wan get an opportunity to defend himself this time? You still haven't given a good reason for why this invalidates that it happened.

He threw Kenobi away fast because of Anakin. Sure he could do it again, but there's no guarantee to the same effect. The thread doesn't specify but in vs threads most of the time the "arena" is a plain ground. If Dooku can't smash Kenobi into something damaging instantly, then he can't do it at all.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
... So Dooku throwing Obi-Wan across the room is less impressive and something he can't do again because, to his luck, there was a balcony for him to drop on the already seemingly unconscious Kenobi? You're seriously grasping at straws here.

You miss the part where he threw him to the railing. I imagine almost breaking your spine might hurt. As I said above, if there's nothing around to smash Kenobi into then it won't work.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Proof?

The junior novel.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Yeah, this sentence sums up your arguing nicely. The junior RotS adaption describes the fight from mostly Kenobi's viewpoint, and how he constantly is aware of Dooku's lightsaber skills and Force powers and that they needn't his powers be any greater than they already are {his thoughts, when Anakin taunts Dooku}. But what, did Kenobi's brain turn inside out which made him, for some incomprehensible reason, not expect that Dooku might want to use those Force powers?

Because Dooku was busy with Anakin and he attacked from behind? Dooku literally interrupts him mid-thought...

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Which he is perfectly capable of, as shown already.

In that instance, in that place.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Which would be what, exactly? Does he need a set of stairs and a balcony for it to work?

Pretty much yeah. If they were fighting in an open field how would've Dooku knock out Kenobi before he breaks out of the choke?

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
If there's a good, reasonable suggestion as to why Dooku wouldn't be able to consistently shit on Kenobi with his Force powers, you haven't made it. Your argument as to why he won't is terrible. It has very little basis to support it in itself and is entirely illogical.


To you perhaps. I call 4 sources as more than a little basis.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
You haven't addressed a single thing. How can you even say this, when this is the first time I bring up the junior novel to you?

But I already brought up the junior novel myself. I write this up too to your short term memory loss.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
facepalm

I responded to this dismal argument of yours:



Tell me, do your own points confuse you?

The fact that I said if not for the railing Kenobi might've not been knocked out then you brought up what happened after Kenobi was already smashed into the railing. Like seriously? Get a grip.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Yeah, I'm sure that Dooku isn't interested in continuing to increase his Force mastery because he's 83 years old. That he wasn't on the battlefield as much as Kenobi is also a terrible point. Neither was Sidious, yet his power grew from TPM to RotS. Either apply the same standards to both characters or have a logical explanation for why you don't. This is neither.

It's not about inclination, it's about ability. The fact that Dooku was pushing 90, and had extensive traning both as a jedi and a sith leaves little room for impovement. Also TPM to RotS is 13 years and Sidious is Dooku's junior by 18 years. It's hilarious that you seriously think Dooku could've improved that much.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
But Dooku would already have beel able to take his lightsabers away from him, or deactivate them, or whatever he would find most effective. Good luck to Obi-Wan without his weapon and barely escaping an attempt on his life from Dooku {if that}.

Based on what lmao? If Kenobi is in a horizontal position he can't keep his lightsaber? He wasn't incapcaitated in any way.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
In this post perhaps, but they were terrible and illogical. So no, not really.

What is terrible, and illogical to you matters little to me.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
The difference being that I have defended my stance with reasoning and a look on the movie, in addition to addressing your points. In return you've presented a strawman, an ad hominem, completely illogical points and have decided to not address most of mine. Yeah, we're done here, broski.

You completely missed my points several times, you use retarded assumptions based on a screenplay that lacks context and used more ad hominems than I used letters...

Maul loses to multiple fodder tier opponents/gets stomped by Ben Kenobi but can challenge Dooku

Kek

Originally posted by carthage
Maul loses to multiple fodder tier opponents/gets stomped by Ben Kenobi but can challenge Dooku

Kek That was well past his prime. That's like saying Jordan loses at fifty years old therefore he loses at age 32. Try to use a reasonable argument in the future.


Sincerely, Mr. Reasonable

Originally posted by quanchi112
That was well past his prime.
Prove it.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because he fights better defensively and is less likely to get caught off guard.

Or do you have an example of Maul or Dooku TK bitching him when he was combating defensively?
Pretty sure he hasn't fought ''defensively'', per say, against Dooku, because he was always alongside Anakin. As for Maul, I believe he was Force choked inside the cave when he was defending himself? Not really sure, but in any case, you still haven't made any correlation between him fighting defensively and being less likely to get attacked by the Force. That he perhaps hasn't might as well be talked down to chance, because I can't find any logical reason as to why his Force defenses would be better.

Originally posted by ~Quesin~
Pretty sure he hasn't fought ''defensively'', per say, against Dooku, because he was always alongside Anakin.


Bingo.


Originally posted by ~Quesin~
As for Maul, I believe he was Force choked inside the cave when he was defending himself?


I think he was Actually on the offensive. But his attention was diverted between 2 opponents anyway.

Then at the end of that fight when it is 1 on 1 again, he gets Force blasted when attempting to rush at Maul.


Compare that to Rebels Kenobi who refuses to make the first attacking move, and Maul is clearly unable to do anything to him. Or Mustafar Anakin against ROTS Kenobi. He doesnt get force owned in those situations.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Prove it. Common sense did that a long time ago. I can't force you to absorb my knowledge. Snoke knows I've tried.

^ He probably was past it, given Witwer and Mauls own comments.

But his peak showings were still pretty much on par with what we have seen from him before. Plus he displayed some cool new abilities.

He just has more poor performance moments in his old age. Probably out of frustration.

He was broken so no one is in their mental prime in this toxic state of mind. Common sense people.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was broken so no one is in their mental prime in this toxic state of mind. Common sense people. Is this why you can relate to Maul? He's symbolic of the typical white-trash lower class worker like yourself who has spiraled into mental decay.

Originally posted by Kurk
Is this why you can relate to Maul? He's symbolic of the typical white-trash lower class worker like yourself who has spiraled into mental decay. Says the mentally abused wanna/don't wannabe dentist. Suicide rate is sky high. Join up, kiddo. I'm sure everything will be all right, sporto.

You seem to be projecting, kiddo. Maul is great and died a hate filled Sith refusing to stop.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Says the mentally abused wanna/don't wannabe dentist. Suicide rate is sky high. Join up, kiddo. I'm sure everything will be all right, sporto.

You seem to be projecting, kiddo. Maul is great and died a hate filled Sith refusing to stop. I don't know wtf you're rambling about my dude. Fact is Maul was an insignificant tool who accomplished nothing in the grand scheme of events in the galaxy. You claim he's so smart yet he couldn't stop his own criminals from turning on him.

Originally posted by Kurk
I don't know wtf you're rambling about my dude. Fact is Maul was an insignificant tool who accomplished nothing in the grand scheme of events in the galaxy. You claim he's so smart yet he couldn't stop his own criminals from turning on him. That in and of itself doesn't prove he isn't smart. He isn't all knowing and was a rival to Sidious. That's something very impressive. Sidious wasn't smart enough to save himself against his one handed weaponless apprentice. Maul came out on top against his criminals. Using your own logic I decimate you, bicuspid.

So how did Maul change history and how was it as relevant compared to Dooku's separatist movement or Vader/Sidious's empire?

Originally posted by Kurk
So how did Maul change history and how was it as relevant compared to Dooku's separatist movement or Vader/Sidious's empire? Maul altered history on Mandalore and his events definitely altered many in Star Wars. Sidious came up with the plan Dooku helped orchestrate including his own demise. Maul was the one orchestrating his life post Phantom Menace. I liked the part when Dooku was set up to be killed and he just took it as Sidious made eye contact and revealed to Dooku, "You are the cuck."

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul altered history on Mandalore and his events definitely altered many in Star Wars. Sidious came up with the plan Dooku helped orchestrate including his own demise. Maul was the one orchestrating his life post Phantom Menace. I liked the part when Dooku was set up to be killed and he just took it as Sidious made eye contact and revealed to Dooku, "You are the cuck." Altered what events? Wiping out the Mandalorians because they all got stomped by Dooku's forces?

Dooku accepted that he was inferior to Skywalker and took death like how Vizsla did. Maul screamed like a little b1tch.

Originally posted by Kurk
Altered what events? Wiping out the Mandalorians because they all got stomped by Dooku's forces?

Dooku accepted that he was inferior to Skywalker and took death like how Vizsla did. Maul screamed like a little b1tch. He was their leader. Maul defeated Pre Vizsla to become their one and only. Dooku cucked to Skywalker and just gave in. Too much Jedi not enough Sith.

Maul didn't scream at all when he died. You're the fan of a Sith Cucklord.

Yes Maul accepted his loss at the end. And respected Obi-Wan for beating him the way he did.

I was referring to "have mercy, please, please!"

But yes, he was submissive towards Obi Wan. And this puts him above Dooku because...?

Originally posted by Kurk
I was referring to "have mercy, please, please!"

But yes, he was submissive towards Obi Wan. And this puts him above Dooku because...? No, he wasn't he still never gave into his hate or moved past anything. A true Sith to the bitter end. Dooku was just another Jedi twisted by Sidious.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he wasn't he still never gave into his hate or moved past anything. A true Sith to the bitter end. Dooku was just another Jedi twisted by Sidious. Maul didn't give into his hate? Or Dooku?

Originally posted by Kurk
I was referring to "have mercy, please, please!"

But yes, he was submissive towards Obi Wan. And this puts him above Dooku because...?


He didnt die like that though. But yeah he was very much like his Master who also begged Anakin/Windu to spare him.

Didnt say it put him above Dooku. Just dont see how he comes out looking worse.

Originally posted by Kurk
Maul didn't give into his hate? Or Dooku? I wrote that too quickly. Maul never gave up on his hatred. He hated until the moment of death whereas Dooku accepted his fate which is more characteristic of a Jedi. The Jedi is the way of the cuck.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I wrote that too quickly. Maul never gave up on his hatred. He hated until the moment of death whereas Dooku accepted his fate which is more characteristic of a Jedi. The Jedi is the way of the cuck. Maul became a victim of the dark-side; he was consumed by it and it ultimately cost him his life.

Dooku always maintained control of his emotions and utilized the dark-side when he needed to. He wielded the dark-side; the dark-side wielded Maul.

Originally posted by Kurk
Maul became a victim of the dark-side; he was consumed by it and it ultimately cost him his life.

Dooku always maintained control of his emotions and utilized the dark-side when he needed to. He wielded the dark-side; the dark-side wielded Maul. Being consumed by darkness is what I look for in a fantasy character. He went out like a true selfish bastard. He died by the sword. Great death IMO.


Dooku accepted his death whereas a true Sith will try to prolong their lives at any unnatural cost. Dooku was a Sith poser. I don't like characters who are trying to be something they are not. Why do you think I attack Vader without mercy. It's the same bs that plagued Dooku. They were just dark Jedi led astray by Sidious. They weren't true to themselves. Maul was a selfish Darkseid with or without Sidious. It is who he was.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Being consumed by darkness is what I look for in a fantasy character. He went out like a true selfish bastard. He died by the sword. Great death IMO.


Dooku accepted his death whereas a true Sith will try to prolong their lives at any unnatural cost. Dooku was a Sith poser. I don't like characters who are trying to be something they are not. Why do you think I attack Vader without mercy. It's the same bs that plagued Dooku. They were just dark Jedi led astray by Sidious. They weren't true to themselves. Maul was a selfish Darkseid with or without Sidious. It is who he was. Dooku ratting out Sidious would've meant the end of the Sith. A true sith puts the order before themselves.

Originally posted by Kurk
Dooku ratting out Sidious would've meant the end of the Sith. A true sith puts the order before themselves. Dooku wasn't a true Sith. Listen to the wisdom I share with you. He accepted his fate like a Jedi. A true Sith puts himself above anyone else.

yeah dooku died like a cuck why is anyone denying that
that's an awesome end for him tbh, quality irony

Lol no. Maul died like a cuck begging for the messiah of the Jedi's religion to do what he could not. At least Dooku died knowing his enemies were destroyed with order 66.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol no. Maul died like a cuck begging for the messiah of the Jedi's religion to do what he could not. At least Dooku died knowing his enemies were destroyed with order 66. Dying in combat and not relenting in your hatred for your enemies is dying on your terms. Your inability to understand the obvious has been noted. Dooku died at the behest of his master ordering his execution and he just accepted it like a Jedi cuck.