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Yup, let's do this.

1. Anime canon
2. Manga canon

Piccolo should win both. Beerus placed Goku below Freeza when they met in BoG and Piccolo is definitely stronger than Freeza.

Is Kaiō-ken allowed?

As for the anime canon, Goku could access a good portion of his SSJ power without transforming:

1:05 - 1:20

hRkc5c-A_TU

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_Power

No kaioken or false SSJ, forgot to add that.

Current Piccolo, I assume?

Manga/DBS canon: Piccolo stomps with ease. As mentioned, even BoG-era base Goku was still < Freeza.
Anime canon: Probably the same... I don't recall any filler scenes that'd put base Goku over Piccolo. /shrug

Even if Kaioken is allowed, I still don't see it changing the outcome here. KKx20 is the highest we've seen Goku take the technique -- and that's not even half of the standard SSJ multiplier.


...Unless we use Goku from Movie #4, who used KKx100 to defeat Lord Slug, after...ironically enough...absorbing Piccolo's ki, lawl.

Buu saga for both.

Doesn't change the outcome.

Piccolo(Boo saga) > Piccolo(Cell saga) = Android #17 >>> Freeza > base Goku.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Piccolo should win both. Beerus placed Goku below Freeza when they met in BoG and Piccolo is definitely stronger than Freeza.

Piccolo stomps. Goku would need to turn blue to max out his sub sonic combat speeds (E.g., Piccolo should be faster, although it's hard to know how much faster.. We only know it's under the speed of sound, thanks to that robot tracking everyone with sonar, which proves the entire cast is < speed of sound.)


Piccolo wins.

what if goku uses warp-kamehameha right after the battle starts?

Piccolo would probably tank it.

Goku would need to,be a good deal > than #17 in base...which I find hard to believe.

Before Super came out a lot of people, perhaps the majority, thought that the base Saiyans in Buu saga were above Piccolo:

- Vegeta was confident he could win the tournament without going SSJ, even though Piccolo was in it
- Goten and Trunks were fighting Android 18 evenly in base
- Dabura selected Piccolo as one of the weaker fighters even though he and Babidi were surprised later by SSJ

Beerus' comment makes no sense. Frieza was a f*cking pussy, even Base Gohan one-shotted him in Fusion Reborn movie. And he was weaker than during Cell Games.

Goku was supressed af when Beerus tried to gauge his battle power, that's the most likely explanation.

Piccolo cant even beat a bug.biscuits

He blasts himself in the face with special beam cannon after mumbling 5 minutes about strategy.

Fusing with Kami made him such a pussy...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Beerus' comment makes no sense. Frieza was a f*cking pussy, even Base Gohan one-shotted him in Fusion Reborn movie. And he was weaker than during Cell Games. *Non-canon, doh. ermmhappy

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Goku was supressed af when Beerus tried to gauge his battle power, that's the most likely explanation. I don't think so, personally.

Whis is nigh-omniscient, and had clearly researched Goku's past(along with the other Saiyans') when Beerus woke up in BoG. Had Goku's base form been > Freeza, Whis surely would have noted such, and/or corrected Beerus when he sized base Goku up. Aside from that, Goku himself would have almost certainly said something like: "Hey!!! I'm way stronger than Freeza like this!!!", IF Beerus' comment weren't true. /shrug

No, I'm confident that Goku's max PL at base(barring multipliers like Kaioken and/or SSJ) was *close* to Namek saga Freeza's at the time, but still not quite there. The strong implication was that he still needed *some* sort of multiplier-boost to beat Freeza(though I'm sure a standard KK would have been more than sufficient)... And tbh, I'm fine with Freeza's PL not dwindling into utter insignificance compared to base Saiyans as of the Boo-era -- a power like his *should* still be relevant on some level, imo.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Fusing with Kami made him such a pussy...
How so?