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Hmm...

tNoMQSvNAWE


Sounds about right.

😖

A great Star Wars film. Hell, a great film regardless of the brand. I can't wait for Rian Johnson's trilogy. If you losers **** this up I'm going to terrorize you.

Quanchi you're in denial. The Last Jedi was terrible, feminist garbage.

With a Star Wars Movie pretty much coming out Every Year for the Foreseeable Future. The odd are that some of them will be Stankers. TLJ wasn't Bad but it sure as Hell wasn't Great.


Rogue 1. Now that movie was a Stanker.

I thought Stigma died?

Nope. That honor still goes to Attack of the Clones.

The 1st Ewok movie still exists.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Nope. That honor still goes to The Force Awakens.


Fixed.

TFA has the sin of being derivative in plot and creatively bankrupt. I'd definitely say it's the most dull of the franchise.

However from a competency standpoint, its a better made movie. AotC isn't just a shitty star wars movie, its a shitty film in general. Bad pacing, wooden acting, cringy dialogue, nonsensical character motives, plot threads that go nowhere, etc.

Force Awakens was better honestly...

And the Prequels weren't even bad

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I thought Stigma died?
No. That was Bane.


This guy had a humorous rant, but some of his points are really solid. Especially about Luke tbh.

"This is a video that I really, desperately did not want to make."

I bet that Adsense revenue from the 362, 420 views is helping to ease his suffering.





Originally posted by Tzeentch
Nope. That honor still goes to Attack of the Clones.

91% Critics Score, 51% audience score. Box office is a success even while far under the predictions.
Not paying to watch it or any other Disney movie, nor buying merchandise is the best way to criticise a company. Glad to see that a lot of others feel similar. Its a small drop of resistance but talking to friends, family and co workes about how bad this movie is prevents them from wasting money. The benefit of being a fan, your opinion matters to non fans.

So currently The Last Jedi has 51% rating by audiences at Rotten Tomatoes....

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/


To put that in perspective, this is worse than Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, which are rated by audiences at 59% and 57% respectively.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_i_the_phantom_menace/

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_ii_attack_of_the_clones


In short, The Last Jedi is the worst received SW film by the fans of the saga.

LOL

Agreed. I even wrote a review of it.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t648603.html

You are on point there

We should have listened to Mark Hamill when he was subtly warning us before this garbage came out.

Originally posted by Not_a_sock
Quanchi you're in denial. The Last Jedi was terrible, feminist garbage. No, you're just a butthurt loser who is crying on the internet. Loved the film. Go spread your false narrative elsewhere.

I originally like it, but the more I think about it, the more I dislike it.

not sure what tfa has placing it above tlj

Originally posted by samappo
I originally like it, but the more I think about it, the more I dislike it. Weaker minds break when they hear other scrutiny. Film is great.

Interesting insights:

N0fTGR6_K5c

"every review is lying"
"not entertaining in the slightest"

Your boi is dramatic stig.

This review is a couple order of magnitudes bettter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzDqydDwmD8
^^^^ It's specific, doesn't go over-dramatic with absolutes, actually uses footage to make clear what he's talking about, and doesn't cherrypick.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
"every review is lying"
"not entertaining in the slightest"

Your boi is dramatic stig.
Sure, dramatic, yet mostly correct in his observations


TBH this movie is very polarizing and the divide between critics' opinion and the fans' opinion is one of the greatest I have seen in a long time.

Stuckmann is one of my favourite reviewers, yeah. I did disagree with him on that review though.

I like Stuckmann too, but he cucks for this movie hard. Many comments under his review indicate so lucidly.

EDIT: I also place him in "pro critics category," who seem to play it safe with their reviews or outright cuck for the movie. The general public is more dissatisfied in general with TLJ (see RT scores, for instance)

Originally posted by Stigma
Sure, dramatic, yet mostly correct in his observations


TBH this movie is very polarizing and the divide between critics' opinion and the fans' opinion is one of the greatest I have seen in a long time.
What? Fan reviews have the film at 4 out of 5 stars, critics rate it around there. Where's the divide? TLJ was liked both by fans and critics.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Stuckmann is one of my favourite reviewers, yeah. I did disagree with him on that review though.
Me too. His defense of TFA still irks me. "It has better pacing". It also has worse dialogue, rendered the OT pointless, and worse acting.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
What? Fan reviews have the film at 4 out of 5 stars, critics rate it around there. Where's the divide? TLJ was liked both by fans and critics. RT audience reviews has it lower than Phantom Menace.....

Also, check out other youtube reviews. This movie is polarizing or mediocre for many.


Example:

L9hwGZFPSmw

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
What? Fan reviews have the film at 4 out of 5 stars, critics rate it around there. Where's the divide? TLJ was liked both by fans and critics.

Which speaks to the number of people who liked it, not how much they liked it on average. Per Fandango, people on average rated it 4 out of 5 stars.

I don't really check many youtube reviews. People who write written reviews are usually a great deal more knowledgable,

Originally posted by Stigma
So currently The Last Jedi has 51% rating by audiences at Rotten Tomatoes....

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/


To put that in perspective, this is worse than Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, which are rated by audiences at 59% and 57% respectively.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_i_the_phantom_menace/

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_ii_attack_of_the_clones


In short, The Last Jedi is the worst received SW film by the fans of the saga.

LOL



It has a low audience rating on metacritic, too.

Originally posted by Stigma
RT audience reviews has it lower than Phantom Menace.....




Not reliable. Haters can vote multiple times through Sock accounts.

Yeah, these days things can get review-bombed pretty easily. It happens to games all the time.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


It has a low audience rating on metacritic, too.
51%... yikes

4.6/10

http://www.metacritic.com/movie/star-wars-episode-viii---the-last-jedi

86/100

Butthurt fans still trying to act like this film failed. Pathetic. Get over it you losers.

TLJ is the second greatest Star Wars film not far from rots which could change in the future. It would seem a lot of people have mediocre to shitty taste. This was the film of the year. Luke apologists don't dictate canon. Whatever preconceived notions you may have don't dictate Star Wars reality but rather the creative folks employed by Disney.

@ Sinious since the quote thing isn't working right.

I think Johnson going in blind with TLJ is a larger part too, episode 9 changing hands back to Abrams isn't gonna help anything either.

Yeah, a lot of the big picture twists can be explained by that. Little things like Rose saving Finn at last minute or Leia surviving the bombardment happening every 10 minutes is a different story though.Originally posted by quanchi112
creative folks employed by Disney. lol

Originally posted by Sinious
Yeah, a lot of the big picture twists can be explained by that. Little things like Rose saving Finn at last minute or Leia surviving the bombardment happening every 10 minutes is a different story though. lol You are free to hate it I loved it. Get mad because it's canon and already cruising over a billion and past Rogue One.

rCB8DUGpYQQ


^ Better than the actual movie

Originally posted by quanchi112
Butthurt fans still trying to act like this film failed. Pathetic. Get over it you losers.


Look I liked this one. But you cant deny going down $700mllion from the previous film is a bit of a disaster (financially speaking).

Can you imagine if Infinity War made less than $1bill? Would that be considered a success? Doubt it.

Plus it had the lowest box office multiplier of any Star Wars film to date. Plus theres clearly a good amount of hate out here for this as well.

So no point in pretending like everything went perfect (in terms of reception) for this one.

BTW If anyone's curious The Last Jedi on RT sits at a staggering 48% audience score (critics 91% LOL).

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/

In comparison, The Phantom Menace has an audience score of 59% (critics 55%) and Attack of the Clones has 57% audience score (66% critics).

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_i_the_phantom_menace/

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_ii_attack_of_the_clones/


GL is deeply missed by the general audience, it seems.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Look I liked this one. But you cant deny going down $700mllion from the previous film is a bit of a disaster (financially speaking).

Can you imagine if Infinity War made less than $1bill? Would that be considered a success? Doubt it.

Plus it had the lowest box office multiplier of any Star Wars film to date. Plus theres clearly a good amount of hate out here for this as well.

So no point in pretending like everything went perfect (in terms of reception) for this one.
Good points, DP.

Tbh people will love or hate it, it's rather subjective. But the numbers don't lie. This movie did not reasonate well with audiences and seems to be a financial disaster, relatively speaking of course...

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Look I liked this one. But you cant deny going down $700mllion from the previous film is a bit of a disaster (financially speaking).

Can you imagine if Infinity War made less than $1bill? Would that be considered a success? Doubt it.

Plus it had the lowest box office multiplier of any Star Wars film to date. Plus theres clearly a good amount of hate out here for this as well.

So no point in pretending like everything went perfect (in terms of reception) for this one. I didn't expect it to go anywhere near TFA due to the time gap in between films. What hurts it is the negative perception out there. It still earned the highest box office out of the entire year and you're not going to hit it out of the park every time at the box office.

I do agree that would be a nightmare for Infinity War but this didn't make under a billion either it made three hundred million more than a billion. Your expectations of box office success are too high IMO.

Only thing I worry about is the perception but I expect that to dissipate entirely by the time episode nine rolls around. There was a lot of hate for Into Darkness by a small contingent of Trekkers. I loved the film as do I love this film. It's my favorite Star Wars film to date after various rewatches. Rots still has the best action but to me this was the best film.

I never pretended it did I think it's overblown and I personally loved it. I can't control how others view the film. We also were informed of a few thousand DC fans purposely putting up negative fan reactions to Disney films which definitely matters as well.

Interesting video on the business decisions made in regards to TLJ:

IzHeDYfkAB0

TFA reset the lore, had fair inferior acting, dialogue, thematic strength, ect.

TLJ was orignial and offered the lore something new.

Like Mark Hamil, Andy Serkis all vastly outacted their tfa counterparts save for maybe harrison ford who was given far worse material.

Kylo Ren was far more impressive in TLJ and Rey displayed wider range here. Only weak performance came from finn's new fling, but that's hardly enough to lower TLJ to a less well executed ANH rehash.

Being original is not a testament to quality within itself, and while I think TFA being a copy and paste of ANH is bad on the whole, TLJ being subversive, almost to the point of parody, really isn't much better. TLJ has some of the worst dialogue in the series, its themes are that nothing matters and that we should just throw away the past for no reason in particular, and the acting within itself doesn't make up for said dialogue or themes. Older actors being better than younger ones is not an achievement either. Neither is the younger actors coming back more experienced an achievement. These are just things that should logically happen as one practices any skill, which acting qualifies as.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
TFA reset the lore, had fair inferior acting, dialogue, thematic strength, ect.

TLJ was orignial and offered the lore something new.

Like Mark Hamil, Andy Serkis all vastly outacted their tfa counterparts save for maybe harrison ford who was given far worse material.

Kylo Ren was far more impressive in TLJ and Rey displayed wider range here. Only weak performance came from finn's new fling, but that's hardly enough to lower TLJ to a less well executed ANH rehash.
Right.

Still, this seemed not to reasonate well with general audience and hardcore fans given the terrible audience ratings and possibly the greatest hate for SW movie since AotC (interesting tidbit: AotC outperforms TLJ with fans). On top of that, there is a growing movement among fans calling out for a boycott of the next movie as well as spin-offs. These are telling signs.

But the focus of the video I provided above is on actual numbers too as well as business decisions that may have recovered the film.
TLJ bombed financially, it seems, or at leats vastly underperfomed.


Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Being original is not a testament to quality within itself, and while I think TFA being a copy and paste of ANH is bad on the whole, TLJ being subversive, almost to the point of parody, really isn't much better. TLJ has some of the worst dialogue in the series, its themes are that nothing matters and that we should just throw away the past for no reason in particular, and the acting within itself doesn't make up for said dialogue or themes. Older actors being better than younger ones is not an achievement either. Neither is the younger actors coming back more experienced an achievement. These are just things that should logically happen as one practices any skill, which acting qualifies as.

If anyone is interested, concerning audience scores, I only see the RT audience score being posted, which has 183,957 audience scores/reviews and is at 48% (4.8) and IMDB'S audience score has a 7.5 with 316,948 audience scores/reviews.

Both sites score user/audience reviews out of 100%/10, obviously.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2527336/ratings?ref_=tt_ov_rt

Honestly, audience scores are unreliable since a lot of people have extra accounts they use to bump up movies they like or rank down movies they dislike and a lot of people don't even have accounts.

The critics score is, imho, more important and valid.

Originally posted by MythLord
Honestly, audience scores are unreliable since a lot of people have extra accounts they use to bump up movies they like or rank down movies they dislike and a lot of people don't even have accounts.

The critics score is, imho, more important and valid.
Nah.

Audience scores can be hugely unreliable, yeah. Review bombing is a thing that happens these days. And most formal critics aren't that much better. YouTube critics like Chris Stuckmann and Jeremy Jahns are more reliable imo since they're real people.

Originally posted by MythLord
Honestly, audience scores are unreliable since a lot of people have extra accounts they use to bump up movies they like or rank down movies they dislike and a lot of people don't even have accounts.

The critics score is, imho, more important and valid.

I agree that the latter score is definitely more reliable than the former of the two you mentioned. One is not more important, in certain respects (mostly pertaining to just liberty), but the critic score is certainly often a more nuanced and experienced consensus.

Neither, of course, can be utilized as a tool to measure objective quality, seeing as that is certainly not an aspect present in film-making.

Good points, Ares

The critics score is more reliable than the audience score, certainly, but in RT's case it's still pretty useless.

Originally posted by quanchi112
idn't expect it to go anywhere near TFA due to the time gap in between films. What hurts it is the negative perception out there. It still earned the highest box office out of the entire year and you're not going to hit it out of the park every time at the box office.

I do agree that would be a nightmare for Infinity War but this didn't make under a billion either it made three hundred million more than a billion. Your expectations of box office success are too high IMO.

Yes but this isn't like Age of Ultron which only went down by $100mill world wide from Avengers1, despite most people seeing AOU as a vastly inferior film. It's a $700million drop.


If Infinity War has the same percentage drop from the last Avengers film then it would make under a billion. That's how large the drop off is with this.

Largest drop off for a Star Wars sequel, and lowest box office multiplier of any Star Wars film.

It's not about my expectations. It's about it's box office trajectory.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Only thing I worry about is the perception but I expect that to dissipate entirely by the time episode nine rolls around. There was a lot of hate for Into Darkness by a small contingent of Trekkers. I loved the film as do I love this film. It's my favorite Star Wars film to date after various rewatches. Rots still has the best action but to me this was the best film.




Well lets hope Episode 9 doesn't have the same drop off Star Trek Beyond had.

To be fair though, it's the end of the trilogy so will make more than TLJ.

Indeed, audience response to a given merchandise is what matters to the business. There haven't been so much negative feedback towards a SW film since AotC, it seems.

Regarding critics. They are often closed in their own little world too. They have subjective tastes and can be fanboys or be persuaded etc.

On top of that, I have seen criticis like Stuckmann (whom I respect a lot) being willingly ignorant of glaring mistakes in TLJ (opening the door to the vaccum of space to let Leia in). This is not a subjective value judgement, but a logical mistake that undermines the coherence of the movie. He did the same with The Dark Knight Rises, so there's that.

Bottom line is this:
Critics are no more objective than an average person, nor are they immune to the influence of the movie business. Actually, they are more exposed to it, for better and for worse. They just have a job and a set of skills that help them to analyze movies on various levels. But the more knowledge you have it is easier to dose it for those who do not possess it.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
should just throw away the past for no reason in particular
What? No it's that we should learn from our mistakes and move on.

THE PT jedi made a slew of mistakes resulting in their downfall. OT Luke realzined and defied one of the pt jedi's defining flaws:
"no love"
to redeem his father.


Quote me on "some of the worst dialogue in the series". Yoda's bit about masters, "let the past die", and luke's "I didn't fear it enough then" are some of the series' best lines.