Exar Kun and Kyp Durron accolades.

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AncientPower
So I found something I didn't even know existed, a hardcover Omnibus of Jedi Academy trilogy. It was still sealed. I only got it because I horde Star Wars books but I didn't expect a nice surprise within.

"Luke Skywalker, Master Jedi, is on a new mission. Not to defeat the forces of evil but to renew the good. He recruits old ally Kam Solusar, and Dathomir witch Kirana Ti. Eventually Luke discovers the old labourer Streen, the alien clone Dorsk and the Force prodigy Gantoris. But there is one he's unprepared for, somewhere between awe and terror, he meets Kyp Durron. A Jedi with greater potential than he's ever sensed." - Dark Apprentice

"Kyp Durron has absconded with the Suncrusher to terrorise the galaxy as Luke Skywalker lies between life and death. The manufacturer of this madness is no other than the spirit of fallen Jedi warlord Exar Kun. In a cruel twist of fate, Luke's attempt to revive the Jedi has only aided in engineering the return of the dead Sith order. Yet Kyp Durron has his master's measure and knows that should he return, neither he or his old master would be able to stop him. To prevent this he leaves the moons of Yavin behind, long beyond the reach of Kun's spells. So long as things remain the same, Kyp Durron controls the galaxy." - Champions of the Force

Great stuff to be honest.

The Merchant
Cool, a revived Kun can't be stopped by JA Luke.

LordOfTheLight
Yeah, sure, like Kyp knows Luke's powers even as of his massively hindered state in DA, let alone what a focused Luke can do.

AncientPower
Him 'knowing' means he knows a fact, that's different from him thinking something from his POV.

There are two statements from JA itself stating he has gotten stronger with every mission though.

Benithesoyboy
Nice thumb up

Just reinforces what the intelligent already knew.

LordOfTheLight
That's not how it works. He "knew", is simply used to assert that the character's conviction and belief in the assertion is very strong. An example would be a vastly pre-prime( from ROTS) Sidious "knowing" that he or Plagueis would be more powerful than the order's most powerful members. There are countless examples of such stuff, really.

3 actually(IIRC). Let me add the context: They are either at the start of JA JS, soon after his confrontation with Palpatine, or towards the end of JA CoTF, well after his ordeal as a spirit, where his emotional progression is clearly shown.

There are none in DA, which is where the main "Kyp and Kun" arc takes place, and where all the signs are there.

I mean, his emotional evolution as a spirit is clearly outlined. He is initially afraid of Kun, obviously, and then goes to being unsure but confrontational( defeating Kun in a spirit encounter), and then goes to being completely fearless.

So, those quotes only apply to Luke either at the start of JA, or at the end. That's like me being a champion racer, starting a tournament where races are held simultaneously one after the other. I may say at the start that I am better than I ever was. Well after the end, I may say again, that I am better than I ever was, but in the middle-end of the tournament, where I am battered, worn out, tired, I cannot say that I am better "in that condition" than I was at the start of the tournament, or at the end, where I am refreshed, and feel stronger than ever.

Obviously the analogy isn't perfect, but all that needs to be gleaned from it is the "middle condition". Except that in this case, it applies exclusively to Luke.

AncientPower
Eh. It says he knows, in an OOU summary. It'd be different if it was his POV narrative, then I'd agree. This is a summary from an OOU perspective stating that Kyp knows Kun can't be stopped by either himself or Luke.

Luke's like that in everything though through NR. He's never really performing at his best.until at least BFC. Furthermore, I'd make the argument that it's not exactly referring to a fvcked up Luke but a Luke prior to his confrontation at the climax of DA. It'd make no sense otherwise.

LordOfTheLight
Exactly. I too was talking about character's opinion from outside perspective as well. Nobody buys( it is flat out wrong) that LOTS Vader is more powerful than KF Vader. Nobody buys( again, it is pretty evidently wrong) that 30/40 year old Sidious is more powerful/skilled than Yoda.

What makes no sense? This quote? Yeah, given that this is still from a character's perspective, be it from outside perspective.

The "Luke getting stronger" part? Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. There is a reason why Luke is so confident either at the start of JA, or at the very end of JA, and nowhere in the middle. Again, refer to the analogy. In a more amenable mindset and even playing fields, Luke has visibly gotten the better of Kun. His mindset makes a pretty monumental difference in his fights. His entire life is a testimony to that.

Yeah, Luke is like that till BFC. I never said anything contradictory to that. In fact, he is like that in his later stages as well. FOTJ makes a pretty good excuse for that, by having him weakened and injured regularly so as to even out the contests a little. That is why he goes from "destroying" Abeloth in a force contest( and IIRC, simultaneously dealing with Taalon and some Sith Sabers), to a position where he can only give 1/12 of her power out.

AncientPower
Both of those claims are in the narration of the books themselves which are still from the POVs of the characters in reference. Hence their fallibility. This is neither the narration of the character's perspective nor is it even in the book. It's a summary of the events of the Omnibus itself. That's the difference here.

Your appeal to fallibility would be correct when Corran Horn claims Kun's powers are greater than anything he's even imagined despite making that estimation during a conversation with Luke himself. Again, there's a difference. The former is a statement, the latter is a musing by a character from their perspective.

But here's the thing, this is a general estimate of the powers of the characters involved. It's not entertaining the context of any one scene in the book. Furthermore, Luke doesn't 'best' Kun. Kun leaves because Luke doesn't fall for Kun's attempts at intimidating him. In the only real confrontation they have, Luke goes all-out defensively attempting to find a way to defend himself with every technique he knows. But this has a ton of circumstances in and of itself and I don't like using it as it's been argued every which way without consensus.

An_Sock
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
. Again, refer to the analogy. In a more amenable mindset and even playing fields, Luke has visibly gotten the better of Kun. His mindset makes a pretty monumental difference in his fights. His entire life is a testimony to that.


This isn't really a good comparison though. Reading throught the text myself.

Kun knew that attempting to fight each other in spirit form is folly. Because neither he or Luke can truly cause harm to the other. What his attempting to do is get Lukes students to finish off his comatosed body.

Kun didn't fight back either, the "cold spear of ice" Luke felt is just something that happens when people come into contact with Kun's spirit. As Luke did when he rugby takcled him.

Unbowed
It was always obvious that Kun>Luke>DE Sidious.

AncientPower
DE Luke < JA Luke << DE Sidious

LordOfTheLight
Originally posted by AncientPower
Both of those claims are in the narration of the books themselves which are still from the POVs of the characters in reference. Hence their fallibility. This is neither the narration of the character's perspective nor is it even in the book. It's a summary of the events of the Omnibus itself. That's the difference here.

Your appeal to fallibility would be correct when Corran Horn claims Kun's powers are greater than anything he's even imagined despite making that estimation during a conversation with Luke himself. Again, there's a difference. The former is a statement, the latter is a musing by a character from their perspective.

But here's the thing, this is a general estimate of the powers of the characters involved. It's not entertaining the context of any one scene in the book.

This is just your opinion on how it should be, not what it is. Let me summarize:

Both Vader and Sidious's quotes, are from outside perspectives. Out of universe perspectives, to be more specific. That much is clear. So, when I hear you say that "because" it is in the main narrative of the books, that "outside perspective" isn't to be taken, when it is blatantly obvious that it is so, I find it pretty ludicrous.

I don't think so. There is absolutely no basis for discarding character opinions from outside perspective in the "content of the material" yet accepting an exactly proportionate quote when it is present on a hardcover, other than "your opinion". Essentially, you would then be questioning the source material "itself".

There is no difference between what is given on the hardcover, and what is clearly written in the novel. In fact, what is actually in the source material is by default, to be given more importance. If you are not making any claims on sources and their questionability in general, then there is nothing further to discuss.

Yes, and incidentally, your "excuse" for doing so, would be that it is a general estimate of the characters involved. Lol, what? It is nothing more than a "summary" of the events which took place. Novel-Full details on events which took place. Hardcover-A short summary of some specific events. There is nothing distinguishing the credence of this over anything given in the novels, except, again, your view on how it should be.

As far as "general estimate" goes, again, Kyp "knows" that he is more powerful than Luke( despite the contrary being repeatedly confirmed), Sidious "knows" that he is more powerful than Yoda, and LOTS Vader "knows" that he is more powerful than KF Vader( this is in fact as close to objective fact as it can get from LOTS), all according to outside perspective. None of them entertain any kind of context, vital context which proves them blatantly wrong. They are exactly similar to this quote, both general, both written in the exact same kind of perspective. Kyp's quote being on the hardcover, and the other quotes being in the main material, does nothing to change this "general estimate", nor that they can and are wrong.

LordOfTheLight
For the spirit fight:



Kun "discorporates". Presumably that does him some kind of damage, because he would not seek to "escape" the situation at hand. Furthermore, Luke doesn't discorporate, and just has the "cold ice" feeling when he encounters Kun. Further more, Luke's attack leaves Kun reeling, something that certainly doesn't happen to Luke.

Obviously Luke has the upper hand, lol. Obviously he is superior to Kun, in this particular encounter. If Kun truly is invincible, he would simply continue to mock, not "discorporate" and "reel", and immediately escape the situation, as though meeting a foe stronger than him.

Either that, or its just Luke's force energy vs Kun's force energy( they are pure energy at this point), in which case, again, Luke comes off the better.

LordOfTheLight
Originally posted by Unbowed
It was always obvious that Luke>DE Sidious>>>>>Kun.

Corrected(power).

AncientPower
The narratives of Plagueis and Lords of the Sith aren't out-of-universe at all, they are by definition the perspectives of the characters making the claim. Thus they are also liable to hold the subjective views of said characters. This isn't the same, as the source is a summary of events put inbetween the books of the Omnibus themselves aren't of any perspective subject to misinformation.

Except Kyp only knows this, as it's an explanation of his reason for leaving. (Also manages to fill the plothole of why Kun didn't have Kyp kill Luke physically after the soul rvpe) The event of Kun returning never happened and is thus a statement of the hypothetical occuring. Thus it isn't beholden to the context you're asserting. Base JA Luke can't stop a Revived Kun, is what it's saying.

AncientPower
You realise it is as simple as Luke tackling Kun, who probably didn't expect him to do anything of the sort. Then Kun falling back against the wall as a result of that action. Kun leaves because he fails to intimidate Luke, that was the entire scene.

LordOfTheLight
Originally posted by AncientPower
You realise it is as simple as Luke tackling Kun, who probably didn't expect him to do anything of the sort. Then Kun falling back against the wall as a result of that action. Kun leaves because he fails to intimidate Luke, that was the entire scene.

You do realize that they aren't physical here? It is just a clash of their force energies.

Obviously it is not as simple as that( you saying), which is why I took effort to post the whole thing, and highlight specifically as to why it isn't.

LordOfTheLight
Originally posted by AncientPower
The narratives of Plagueis and Lords of the Sith aren't out-of-universe at all, they are by definition the perspectives of the characters making the claim. Thus they are also liable to hold the subjective views of said characters. This isn't the same, as the source is a summary of events put inbetween the books of the Omnibus themselves aren't of any perspective subject to misinformation.

Except Kyp only knows this, as it's an explanation of his reason for leaving. (Also manages to fill the plothole of why Kun didn't have Kyp kill Luke physically after the soul rvpe) The event of Kun returning never happened and is thus a statement of the hypothetical occuring. Thus it isn't beholden to the context you're asserting. Base JA Luke can't stop a Revived Kun, is what it's saying.

Wrong. The quote from LOTS is as close to objective narration as it can get, meaning it is but one small step away from being objective fact. It is written 99% as to how we would state something like "Human babies are smaller than adults".

Again wrong. There is nothing preventing the aforementioned quote in the Omnibus from being just a perspective of Kyp, summarized in the passage. It could just as well be that Kyp's motivations for doing what he did are essential to the hence the Omnibus presented it as a character opinion, from an outside perspective.

Let's talk about the quote. It clearly says that Kyp had the measure of Kun. Really? Reminds me of a quote in ROTS which states that Anakin on Mustafar had the measure of Sidious and thought he could defeat him. Funny, he wasn't able to defeat Obi Wan. That right there, makes it nothing but a character's perspective, as the quote says that Kyp had the measure of Kun, hence why he did what he did, and because he had the measure of Kun, he thought that Kun was more powerful than him and Luke( who he hasn't seen at base level at all). Funnily enough, the quote is also wrong, because Kun was controlling Kyp throughout, even across the galaxy, ensuring that Kyp stayed firmly on the dark side. What's more, Kun clearly has influence across space. So, Kyp certainly isn't beyond Kun's spells, and you have to wonder, when Kun was corrupting and controlling Kyp throughout, can't his own opinion on how powerful Kun is be controlled by Kun himself? Certainly, I would bet on it.

You are saying that a quote like this:

"Kyp had the mesaure of his master and knew that if Kun returned, neither Luke nor he would be able to stop him"

Compared to this:

"His injuries had strengthened his body but they had perfected his spirit....Suffering had birthed insight, increasing his connection to the force."

Has more objective weight. That the latter is just from a character's perspective, and the former is an objective quote.

Are you kidding me?

You are obviously engaging in fancy wordplay here, but to keep things simple, no.

AncientPower
You're blatantly ignoring the massive difference in the sources of information themselves. One is an objective source and one is from the perspective of a character. If you can't simply admit to that basic crucial difference then there's no point even continuing this debate.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Tbh the intent is pretty clear that physical Kun would indeed be more powerful than JA Luke. smile

An_Sock
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
For the spirit fight:



Kun "discorporates". Presumably that does him some kind of damage, because he would not seek to "escape" the situation at hand. Furthermore, Luke doesn't discorporate, and just has the "cold ice" feeling when he encounters Kun. Further more, Luke's attack leaves Kun reeling, something that certainly doesn't happen to Luke.

Obviously Luke has the upper hand, lol. Obviously he is superior to Kun, in this particular encounter. If Kun truly is invincible, he would simply continue to mock, not "discorporate" and "reel", and immediately escape the situation, as though meeting a foe stronger than him.

Either that, or its just Luke's force energy vs Kun's force energy( they are pure energy at this point), in which case, again, Luke comes off the better.


It isn't a "clash of force energies" because Luke was the one who attacked Kun. Rather than a mutual struggle of force powers occurring. This is no better than Yoda landing a force push on Palpatine. Which we know is irrelevant because he looses in a direct struggle of Force combat. For a real life example, you and I can have the exact same strength and weight, but if you decide to rugby tackle me while I'm standing still, The chances are that I'm going to either fall over or be sent backwards are pretty high, because you decided to use your momentum to push me. Or like one car being driven into a slightly bigger car that's stationary, the bigger car will be sent backwards, but not because it has less energy(mass) than the smaller car, but because it's not using as much energy than than the car being driven.

Also, in the Jedi vs Sith guide, Corran horn predicted that Kun's spirit could have wrecked more havoc on the Praxium had he not lavishly spent energies reviving the Sun Crusher or Removing Luke's spirit from his body. Dismissing this as just a character opinion is benign when the character holds a decent amount of authority in his own universe and especially when he's offering an explanation that's reasonable.

This of course, would mean that Kun was not on equal footing with Skywalker during their time as spirits given that his reserves would have been depleted.

Azronger
Ziggy, since you seem to be back debating now, will you get back to defending Galen and his clone against Kun?

An_Sock
I will debate the Odan Urr > Galen premise based on his defending of the shockwave. I'll concede that Kun might be able to handle two starkillers.

AncientPower
Ten shockwaves, Ziggy. An event described as more devastating than anything prior to it.

LordOfTheLight
Originally posted by An_Sock
It isn't a "clash of force energies" because Luke was the one who attacked Kun. Rather than a mutual struggle of force powers occurring. This is no better than Yoda landing a force push on Palpatine. Which we know is irrelevant because he looses in a direct struggle of Force combat. For a real life example, you and I can have the exact same strength and weight, but if you decide to rugby tackle me while I'm standing still, The chances are that I'm going to either fall over or be sent backwards are pretty high, because you decided to use your momentum to push me. Or like one car being driven into a slightly bigger car that's stationary, the bigger car will be sent backwards, but not because it has less energy(mass) than the smaller car, but because it's not using as much energy than than the car being driven.

Also, in the Jedi vs Sith guide, Corran horn predicted that Kun's spirit could have wrecked more havoc on the Praxium had he not lavishly spent energies reviving the Sun Crusher or Removing Luke's spirit from his body. Dismissing this as just a character opinion is benign when the character holds a decent amount of authority in his own universe and especially when he's offering an explanation that's reasonable.

This of course, would mean that Kun was not on equal footing with Skywalker during their time as spirits given that his reserves would have been depleted.

Ah, no, you misunderstand. By clash of force energies, I meant not literally as in, both would bombard each other with force powers. I meant that as a clash between each other.

You have to understand, your entire first passage has no relevance here. This isn't a "physical" clash happening. Spirits don't behave like physical objects, and absolutely do not follow the same laws that govern physical entities or objects.

It is just their force energies colliding with each other. Luke and Kun themselves are at this point, pure manifestations of the force. In other words, pure force energy. When they clash, it is not about who attacks first or who takes who off guard, it is literally about whose force energy is stronger than the other. Because the fight isn't like any "rugby tackle" or "fistfight" at all.

Take the event itself. Luke passes "clean through" Kun, not being repelled by him as would any physical object. If spirits could affect each other like physical objects do or push each other like normal beings do, this one event disproves the notion entirely. Speaking of which, nothing should have happened to Kun as well. He too should have stayed put, exactly as he was. Since neither of them used force powers, we know that this is the only clash happening, that of force essences. All their power is localized only in their respective forms, not unleashed.

I simply view it as whose force essence or being is more powerful than the other. Luke's was in this case, which is why he was the one standing firm, instead of being repelled. Which is why Kun was the one discorporating, not Luke, and which is why Kun immediately "escaped". Emphasis "escape". More emphasis on Kun discorporating.

Coming to your second point, yeah, I am aware of it, there is nothing special in that. You are talking about Kun's force energies being depleted? Not only had the guy prior to becoming a spirit drained thousands of Massassi, he had also completely drained Gantoris's life force and was draining Kyp's. He also had the advantage of Yavin's DS nexus being among the most powerful in the galaxy. What does Luke have? Literally nothing compared to that. He has none of those advantages, is completely reliant on his base power and is hindered by the nexus rather than being empowered by it.

As for your take on character opinions, yes, they may hold certain level of authority in their universe. They however do not hold authority on how powerful other beings are, especially if they have known them for a period of a scant few weeks. Especially since Luke here, is far from his optimum self.

An_Sock
Originally posted by AncientPower
Ten shockwaves, Ziggy.

Doesn't matter. The nature of explosions mean that they're subject to uniform distribution. Meaning that only a tiny percentage of those shockwaves can actually hit Odan Urr.

On top of that, the shockwave didn't even melt the surface of the planet, guaranteeing that the temperature was below 1500 degrees. The mountains and cliffs were still intact on the planet too, meaning that the Shockwaves couldn't destroy those either. Azronger, was making out like Odan could match the power of a supernova. If that is true it has yet to be seen.

AncientPower
He survives ten shockwaves that utterly desolate the surface of the planet, to the point that even 4,200 years later it is utterly lifeless. Given that our indications of the full scale damage are the fact that everything around Urr in the comic, including entire buildings, and evidently some of the surrounding mountains when comparing TOTJ to DE, then it's clearly extensive.

LordOfTheLight
This is like saying Grevious is planetary because he survived a planet busting explosion.

AncientPower
Kun's spirit used the Temples as anchors for his spirit, so he isn't being amped further than preserving his own essence. As is noted when he's stated to lay dormant and can barely kill a few pirates who trespass against him. The Massassi sacrifice fueled the ritual that allowed him to ascend from his physical form, he wouldn't have any energies to use from that. Gantoris' life force was depleted when Kun attempted to convert Luke. Kyp Durron was out in the galaxy and actively resisting Kun's possession.

Just wanted to counter those claims.

AncientPower
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
This is like saying Grevious is planetary because he survived a planet busting explosion.

Not it isn't. It's merely a measure of his power amped by Ossus that his Force barrier tanks the shockwaves that hit him and devastate the entire surface of the planet. An insanely impressive feat no matter what way you swing it.

An_Sock
On top of that, The Yavin nexus is not something that seems to hinder any of the Jedi on it. Luke's students drew from the temples without being tempted to the dark side when blowing away 16(?) star destroyers.

LordOfTheLight
Cool. So Grevious is planetary.

"Kun's spirit used the Temples as anchors for his spirit, so he isn't being amped further than preserving his own essence. As is noted when he's stated to lay dormant and can barely kill a few pirates who trespass against him. The Massassi sacrifice fueled the ritual that allowed him to ascend from his physical form, he wouldn't have any energies to use from that. Gantoris' life force was depleted when Kun attempted to convert Luke. Kyp Durron was out in the galaxy and actively resisting Kun's possession."

The temples are preserving his spirit, sure. The DS energy of Yavin distributed across the planet isn't. It's doing more.

No, it would also have allowed him enough power to wreak havoc on the galaxy if the Jedi hadn't countered with the WoL. Basically, what happened to Luke except the latter didn't drain the thousands of Massassi.

Unless you have a source, then no, nothing says Gantoris's life force was depleted completely by Kun. And Kyp Durron was still under the full control of Kun who was feeding off of him.

All bogus claims. I think you should let Ziggy do the actual debating.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by An_Sock
I will debate the Odan Urr > Galen premise based on his defending of the shockwave. I'll concede that Kun might be able to handle two starkillers. Urr? Do you mean Ood?

An_Sock
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Urr? Do you mean Ood?

They are basically the same character.

LordOfTheLight
Quick question, how does Kun scale off the Ood that handled the shockwave?

If I am not wrong, amped Ood put Kun on his ass with a force blast, and put up an impenetrable barrier.

Genuinely curious.

AncientPower
Kun uses a ritual powered by Massassi sacrifices to transcend to spiritual form and escape the Jedi. The Jedi trap him with a WoL. Kun is forced to anchor his spirit to the Yavin IV temples in order to not fade away. His Force reserves are entirely spent. He awakens 4,000 years later and gradually draws energy from the students to sustain himself. This energy is spent when Kun attempts to convert Luke with illusions. He drains Gantoris to gain a source of power which sustains him and uses that energy to empower Kyp to defeat Horn, draw out the Suncrusher and defeat Luke. Horn destroys one of the Temples and weakens Kun further, before Kun spends more energy ragdolling Horn. With his energy spent and Kyp gone, the Jedi students realise he has no more servants to draw energy from and he is thus defeated.









The Temple focal points draw Yavin's latent taint, so I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here.

AncientPower
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Quick question, how does Kun scale off the Ood that handled the shockwave?

If I am not wrong, amped Ood put Kun on his ass with a force blast, and put up an impenetrable barrier.

Genuinely curious.

Amped Ood catches Kun off-guard with a fully powered Force blast but only manages superficial damage.

Azronger
Originally posted by An_Sock
I will debate the Odan Urr > Galen premise based on his defending of the shockwave. I'll concede that Kun might be able to handle two starkillers.

Concession accepted.

Anyway, the supernovas destroyed every city on Ossus. It's not much but still pretty neat:

KAM: Computer on.

Sound: Computer reactivates.

KAM: Continue overview of planet Ossus.

COMPUTER: Ossus. Number of existing cities: Zero. Number of former city locations: 12,006. Topography: Mountainous, rich in minerals. Sentient Life: Ossus is inhabited by pre-technology humanoids. Surface Structure: Tribal.

Dark Empire II Audio Drama

LordOfTheLight
Yeah, not sure what the point of the rant was. The comparison being made here is with Luke who:

1. Didn't drain an entire planet's population of Massassi before being ripped from his body. Essentially that means that whatever state Luke is in as a spirit relative to his self at full power, the ratio for Kun as a spirit relative to his full power is is a lot more. It's nothing but common sense.

2. Didn't feed off Gantoris completely, draining his entire life force. Again as I said, that extra energy wasn't available to Kun, and in retrieving the Sun Crusher( which was done by Kyp) and bolstreting Kyp's power to defeat Luke, there still isn't a quote that says that Gantoris's entire life force was completely spent on both those endeavors. He would obviously be weaker than if he hadn't done the above two, but that is a pointless statement to make, as the Horn quote says.

3. Didn't have Kun's hold on Kyp which was complete and across the galaxy till Kun finally was obliterated. As said, he fed off of his apprentice's anger, which Kyp had in plenty and was doing that throughout CoTF. Not only that, he now had Streen as a new source to drain, in CoTF.

4. Yavin is a DS nexus not only in its temples, but throughout. I believe SoR confirms that the dark side saturates Yavin uniformly to a very high intensity.

LordOfTheLight
Originally posted by AncientPower
Amped Ood catches Kun off-guard with a fully powered Force blast but only manages superficial damage.

"Catches Kun off guard", "fully powered force blast", are you pulling this from the sky, lol?

That anyways doesn't matter as it is all but confirmed that amped Ood>Kun. It is outright stated that his barrier was impenetrable for Kun.

Further, you cannot equate Ood's force attack to Ood's internal tanking capabilities. Obi Wan 3 years after TPM completely tanked, without a force barrier, a full barrage of laser fire from laser cannons from among the most powerful starfighters in the galaxy. Yet you cannot say that that version of Obi Wan can now disintegrate sizable asteroids, blow apart buildings or bridges with casual singular force blasts. He can just tank that level of power.

Nephthys
Originally posted by An_Sock
The mountains and cliffs were still intact on the planet too, meaning that the Shockwaves couldn't destroy those either.

Maybe the shockwave created those mountains and cliffs! Didn't think of that, did you smart guy?

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by AncientPower
"Kyp Durron has absconded with the Suncrusher to terrorise the galaxy as Luke Skywalker lies between life and death. The manufacturer of this madness is no other than the spirit of fallen Jedi warlord Exar Kun. In a cruel twist of fate, Luke's attempt to revive the Jedi has only aided in engineering the return of the dead Sith order. Yet Kyp Durron has his master's measure and knows that should he return, neither he or his old master would be able to stop him. To prevent this he leaves the moons of Yavin behind, long beyond the reach of Kun's spells. So long as things remain the same, Kyp Durron controls the galaxy." - Champions of the Force

Great stuff to be honest.
Can't this just mean that Luke can't stop him because he's in a state between life and death, though?

Not reading through four pages to see if this was brought up earlier.

AncientPower
It'd be redundant if it meant anything but that.

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