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Setting: Naboo plains

Starting dstance: 100 feet


Who wins?

Mace solidly.

Mace stomps

Mace demolishes. Even if he was an inferior duelist, Vaapad would give him the edge.

Good fight, though.

Originally posted by Azronger
Mace stomps

Good fight, but Mace wins. He's just on another level

Mace Windu is overrated.

Not really

Mace without a highly circumstantial Vaapad amp, is only around Dooku's tier. Without that feat, Malgus' are just better.

Mace annihilates

Mace wins and doesn't need vaapad to do so

Lol, Malgus gave a team far stronger than Mace an intense bout. He's just got better Force feats.

mace rapes

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lol, Malgus gave a team far stronger than Mace an intense bout.
Malgus is good. Mace is better.

Given the RotS novel explicitly establishes Palpatine as the limit for Mace's Vaapad, with Malgus being well below that, there's literally no way for Malgus to win as Mace can match him in any aspect where Malgus is fueled by the dark side. It's a draw at best, but Mace being on par with Dooku or above in of itself gives him the win here.

Stop trying to claim that Mace can amp himself to such a degree in any bout. It's been established for 13 years that Mace was amped by the circumstances of his mindset and the fear of Anakin Skywalker.

The fear of Anakin wasn't even a factor until the end of the fight. Mace and Sidious were already fighting to an impasse until then.

Secondly, the idea of Mace being amped by the circumstances of his mindset is never explicitly stated in the text. It was an extrapolation that Silver drew by connecting two passages in the text, and alternate explanations have risen for why Mace performed the way he did. Mace's own darkness is only as relevant as far as actually using his form to its best capacity goes; the rest is up to his opposition.

What the text does say, though, is that Mace was cutting loose and that he was reflecting Sidious' dark side fuel, hence why he matched Palpatine perfectly (it's pretty coincidental that Mace having a random amp would make him exact equals with Palpatine).

None of which indicates him being capable of replicating that feat any time he pleases.

Who said he was going to be as strong as Sidious whenever he wants? I said he's a match for any opponent he's pitted against as long as they're RotS Sheev-level or below, not accounting for his own ability (which, being Dooku+, would let him beat most of his opponents in of itself anyway).

Yes, I'm sure that's why he stomps all the dark siders he comes across.

Uh-huh. Because they're all lesser than him anyway (save for Dooku who's a match for him), so what's Vaapad going to do for him there? It only scales him to the level of the opponent he's up against, or in other words nothing if those opponents are already weaker than or equal to him. As was the case with everyone he fought until Palpatine.

So he more or less just relied on his own skill in those fights. Which makes sense given he routed Ventress pretty quickly and matched Dooku.

So I assume the Kar Vastor fight where he nearly died was him scaling up to any opponent sub-Sheev?

Wasn't he injured and not at his best in that fight? Because we know that's not a reliable indicator of anything unless we now have Kar Vastor well above Dooku.

Regardless, the RotS novel also tells us that he learned from his experiences in Shatterpoint and harnessed Vaapad more properly, so to speak, from then on. So it could well be that he had simply been imperfect up to Shatterpoint, and no longer so after that. I assume that we are using RotS Mace here, of course.

It's implied to be the opposite because he's trying his utmost to save Depa Billaba, so I'm not entirely convinced of that.

Shatterpoint also features Mace struggling to lift a small transport at some point, does it not? So Mace definitely hasn't been operating at his peak throughout.

RotS establishes that he's improved since then anyway, so once again your criticism isn't a valid one for RotS Mace.

Originally posted by Azronger
Mace stomps