Solutions to automation-induced job loss

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The Ellimist
Discuss.

Flyattractor
Never gonna happen. The Singularity will soon make humans 100% OBSOLETE!!!!!!

The Ellimist
Well there may be lots of time between mass-unemployment and human-level AGI.

Steve Zodiac
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Discuss. Stay at home and plug into your VR orgy or sex bot.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Well there may be lots of time between mass-unemployment and human-level AGI.

Nah. It will be the Future of a Judge Dredd Mega City One.

Humanity will go Ape Shit and Destroy it self out of boredom.

lazybones
Not entirely sure. I think market developments will make up for many of the job losses by automation, much in the same way they have during previous economic transformations (Industrialisation, Free Trade etc...). However, there may need to be some targeted government spending in the areas where it will strike first. However, I'm not of the opinion that this should necessarily be funded by a 'robot tax', which could drastically slow the pace of automation and endanger economic competitiveness. But you could make the tax system more progressive in general, to capture some of that excess wealth and redistribute to displaced workers and those still in work, or to prime into new industries that have the potential to provide more sustainable jobs. That said, I'm not on board with the idea of an unconditional basic income, because that would be far too costly and could breed a very shoddy work ethic. But there should be some targeted tax credits to ease the transition, which I don't think will be as drastic and sudden as some make it out to be.

Surtur
Originally posted by Flyattractor
Nah. It will be the Future of a Judge Dredd Mega City One.

Humanity will go Ape Shit and Destroy it self out of boredom.

No, we will have become gods in the future.

CnYDLHUwRKc

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Surtur
No, we will have become gods in the future.

CnYDLHUwRKc


I refuse to watch any clop ...I mean clip from BUFFY!

Surtur
How dare you besmirch the good name of Joss Whedon.

Beniboybling
clean coal

BackFire
UBI.

Robtard

Adam Grimes
Maybe turn yourself into a robot?

Surtur
We need some kind of cyborg program, this is clear.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Surtur
How dare you besmirch the good name of Joss Whedon.

Yeah. You are right. I should leave that to Joss himself.

He is WAY better at it then anybody else.



eek!

Surtur
There are loads of Buffy extras that he banged that would agree with you.

Flyattractor
Whedon Vs Wienstien.

Beniboybling

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Beniboybling
truly an inspiring wordsmith...

If coal is so dirty. Shouldn't we get it out of the ground?

Cause...LEFTY SCIENCE!!!!!!
eek!

Tzeentch
UBI pretty much, though even that isn't a true solution. Automation is the death of capitalism though, sure enough.

New jobs will be created (mostly in the IT/engineering sectors) but not nearly enough. What separates this event from other industrialization events in human history is the population boom that's accompanying it. Barring some near-extinction events the global population has been relatively stable until the 20th century. Globalism also compounds the issue. In 19th century Britain British workers only had to compete with other British for work.

We're projected to have around 16 BILLION people on the planet within decades. We aren't going to need 16 billion engineers and programmers, though. Hell we won't even need a billion- the more advanced technology gets the less man-hours you need for any project.

Population will completely outstrip labor and then we'll be ****ed.

ArtificialGlory

dadudemon
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Well there may be lots of time between mass-unemployment and human-level AGI.

Human-level Adjusted Gross Income, my favorite.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Stay at home and plug into your VR orgy or sex bot.

I can't wait.


But, so help me, if you troll me even in my VR sexcapades by pretending to be a gal, I will fly to wherever you are and punch you in the stomach. And if you're eating cheerios for your breakfast, I will fart in your cheerios.

dadudemon
Okay, seriously on topic...lol...I can't even talk about it.


I am working (not personally) on something that will automate something which eliminates all jobs related to this something that is automated. The only jobs would be the software pees and the hardware peeps. In other words, all the other people at the customer-facing spot...gone. lol

I seriously get a laugh out of this. We have an investor who wants to green-light this ASAP...he is trying to throw money at us to force us to up the priority on completing this. This is how badly he wants it. I seriously cannot stop pointing out all the problems and issues that need to be resolved to go to market with it but it is an amazing concept. I wish I could say more but NDAs n'such.



So, yes, I am directly involved with automating things to the point that it will eliminate an absurd amount of jobs. This idea is damn good and I would use this product, too. I did not consider the job losses associated with this until recently and it has me concerned. What if people protest this? What if I get harassed?


It's happening. It's not if, it is "which product will replace jobs x, y, and z this year?"

Adam Grimes
Well if you stop posting we will know what happened...

shiv
3 D Printing - AI - Networking Nanocomputers

The Jobs In IT = The Jobs in Design = Investment


They'll be Gone

dadudemon
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Well if you stop posting we will know what happened...

I wish so so so so so badly I could talk about it. My post would make absolute sensedsfl jal;sdfj ;aslkdf ;askdjf ;laskjdf; k

It's frustrating.

shiv
When you can't speak or write on a specific issue

Do as the old playwrights did in Athens

Can't tell a story - The king will kill you

Change the setting from Athens to Thebes

Change the protagonist from the Queen to The Princes Consort

Tell your story

Kurk
I love the takeover of mindless repetitive jobs by computers. I 100% support it.

There should be enough time before it fully happens for those who wish to change to do so. By change I mean pursue fields that require advanced problem solving and analytical thinking. Those sorts of jobs will be the last to be automated.

I see this entire thing as a purge of the inferiors much like the holocaust. The difference is that this purge is in the name of rationality rather than irrational fears and group thinking (bigotry).

Robtard
Originally posted by Kurk
I love the takeover of mindless repetitive jobs by computers. I 100% support it.

There should be enough time before it fully happens for those who wish to change to do so. By change I mean pursue fields that require advanced problem solving and analytical thinking. Those sorts of jobs will be the last to be automated.

I see this entire thing as a purge of the inferiors much like the holocaust. The difference is that this purge is in the name of rationality rather than irrational fears and group thinking (bigotry).

That was damn edgy, Kurk. Damn edgy. Extra points for working in the Holocaust reference and noting 'purging inferiors' to it.

Kurk
Originally posted by Robtard
That was damn edgy, Kurk. Damn edgy. Extra points for working in the Holocaust reference and noting 'purging inferiors' to it. Not sure how it's edgy. I'm not the one threatened by it. I'm a young college student pursing computer science for this reason.

Robtard
Now you're back on computer science? It was a dental hygienist a few weeks ago. You need to stop letting your mother beat you into submission.

Tzeentch
Originally posted by Kurk
Not sure how it's edgy. I'm not the one threatened by it. I'm a young college student pursing computer science for this reason.

In the future youre advocating you would be a loser, as youre competing with literally billions of people for the same job and millions of those competitors are either just smarter then you or willing to work in shittier conditions.

A second side effect is that once you get down to the last few non-automated sectors, the value of those jobs will go down due to the size of the available labor pool. Why would anyone pay you $50/hour to code or be an engineer when there are a million people who will do the same work at the same level of competency for $10?

Kurk

Robtard
Originally posted by Tzeentch
Why would anyone pay you $50/hour to code or be an engineer when there are a million people who will do the same work at the same level of competency for $10?

That's already happening with out sourcing tech jobs to places like China and India. There's going to be some Indian who's not only smarter than Kirk, but willing to work for 1/5th the pay at 12hr shifts with not benefits.

Kurk
Originally posted by Robtard
That's already happening with out sourcing tech jobs to places like China and India. There's going to be some Indian who's not only smarter than Kirk, but willing to work for 1/5th the pay at 12hr shifts with not benefits. simplistic programming has and will continue to be off-shored. Software development for companies often requires a level of business/soft-skills that some dude in a cubicle over-seas doesn't have.

Do you have a better alternative for me, Robby? Should I work in a warehouse like Quanchi or will it become automated before all computer systems administrator jobs are outsourced?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
simplistic programming has and will continue to be off-shored. Software development for companies often requires a level of business/soft-skills that some dude in a cubicle over-seas doesn't have.

Do you have a better alternative for me, Robby? Should I work in a warehouse like Quanchi or will it become automated before all computer systems administrator jobs are outsourced? My former apprentice takes the time to just make his intentions so clear well here comes the force lightning. I don't work in a warehouse and I'd bet my bank account is far superior to your parents combined bank accounts. You are free to continue to search for your way on the college scene but I sincerely doubt you'll ever achieve success or happiness.

From what I can gather from your odd posts is you do a lot of self reflecting which usually means you overthink everything and tend to suffer a lot. A pitiful masochist who doesn't understand why they can't ever catch a break when the bitter irony is your mind is the problem not reality that surrounds you.

Robtard
Originally posted by Kurk
simplistic programming has and will continue to be off-shored. Software development for companies often requires a level of business/soft-skills that some dude in a cubicle over-seas doesn't have.

Do you have a better alternative for me, Robby?

Should I work in a warehouse like Quanchi or will it become automated before all computer systems administrator jobs are outsourced?

Nah, there's people in China and India just (or more) as qualified and intelligent for development. In today's eWorld one needn't be on the job, to be on the job.

Do what you like; what interest you. But imo, your mother's choice of dentistry is solid, it's a field that will be needed for sure and iirc, there are not billions of dentist. You just have to be good at it, to excel. This is of course if you can stand being a dentist, doesn't matter if you're the best dentist in the world but hate it and end up jumping off a building after you're 10,000th molar extraction.

IMO, you seem too smart to just do quanchi's warehouse job, but hey, if it makes you happy?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
Nah, there's people in China and India just (or more) as qualified and intelligent for development. In today's eWorld one needn't be on the job, to be on the job.

Do what you like; what interest you. But imo, your mother's choice of dentistry is solid, it's a field that will be needed for sure and iirc, there are not billions of dentist. You just have to be good at it, to excel. This is of course if you can stand being a dentist, doesn't matter if you're the best dentist in the world but hate it and end up jumping off a building after you're 10,000th molar extraction.

IMO, you seem too smart to just do quanchi's warehouse job, but hey, if it makes you happy? I will give you one post to rescind your baseless claims that I work at a warehouse.

ILS
where do you work

quanchi112
Originally posted by ILS
where do you work Not in a warehouse.

smile

Robtard
Baseless? I was going off of what Kurk said and it's irrelevant where you work to my point. My point was to inspire the lad to achieve and not mope around his mother's house aimlessly.

Kurk
Originally posted by Robtard
Nah, there's people in China and India just (or more) as qualified and intelligent for development. In today's eWorld one needn't be on the job, to be on the job.

Do what you like; what interest you. But imo, your mother's choice of dentistry is solid, it's a field that will be needed for sure and iirc, there are not billions of dentist. You just have to be good at it, to excel. This is of course if you can stand being a dentist, doesn't matter if you're the best dentist in the world but hate it and end up jumping off a building after you're 10,000th molar extraction.

IMO, you seem too smart to just do quanchi's warehouse job, but hey, if it makes you happy? Ah yes, the Asian master race...tough to compete with, I won't lie.

I'd love to take out a small student loan of $400,000 to look into disease ridden mouths all day at Aspen Dental all while (when it's said and done accounting loan payback) making the same as any middle-class American. Who doesn't love being a student debt slave until they're 45??? big grin big grin

It's almost as if Quanchi has it better off!

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
Baseless? I was going off of what Kurk said and it's irrelevant where you work to my point. My point was to inspire the lad to achieve and not mope around his mother's house aimlessly. Well you can't trust Kurk's word is my point. He's a disillusioned lad who tries to wander back into my good graces as he stumbles through life. I tend to pity the lad because of the number his domineering mother has had on him. Mommy dearest only to a more severe degree than hanger beatings.

Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
My former apprentice takes the time to just make his intentions so clear well here comes the force lightning. I don't work in a warehouse and I'd bet my bank account is far superior to your parents combined bank accounts. You are free to continue to search for your way on the college scene but I sincerely doubt you'll ever achieve success or happiness.

From what I can gather from your odd posts is you do a lot of self reflecting which usually means you overthink everything and tend to suffer a lot. A pitiful masochist who doesn't understand why they can't ever catch a break when the bitter irony is your mind is the problem not reality that surrounds you. Deadass this is probably the smartest thing I've seen you post. I was actually somewhat shocked by its accuracy. You have probed me as Snoke does to Rey and Kylo.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l2Sqd3A0zQ4jjgMc8/giphy.gif

Robtard
Originally posted by Kurk
Ah yes, the Asian master race...tough to compete with, I won't lie.

I'd love to take out a small student loan of $400,000 to look into disease ridden mouths all day at Aspen Dental all while (when it's said and done accounting loan payback) making the same as any middle-class American. Who doesn't love being a student debt slave until they're 45??? big grin big grin

It's almost as if Quanchi has it better off!

Nah.

Then you're doing it wrong. My dentist, he owns/runs his own business easily makes well over $400k for himself, so even if all his loans (school, setting up the business etc) cost him a million, he's still doing alright and would be out of debt in a reasonable amount of time. He's also a very good dentist; this is key.

Nah, be like the dentist, not the guy throwing boxes in a warehouse. Or do computer science, if that's what you truly love.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
Ah yes, the Asian master race...tough to compete with, I won't lie.

I'd love to take out a small student loan of $400,000 to look into disease ridden mouths all day at Aspen Dental all while (when it's said and done accounting loan payback) making the same as any middle-class American. Who doesn't love being a student debt slave until they're 45??? big grin big grin

It's almost as if Quanchi has it better off!

http://i.imgur.com/dN1Y2Bk.gif

dadudemon
Originally posted by shiv
When you can't speak or write on a specific issue

Do as the old playwrights did in Athens

Can't tell a story - The king will kill you

Change the setting from Athens to Thebes

Change the protagonist from the Queen to The Princes Consort

Tell your story

It does nothing for you.



We are working on a swimming pool assembling project. Where some hardware and software assembles a swimming pool. And our client is Walmart. It will put countless people out of jobs who assemble swimming pools.


See, does nothing to actually let anyone understand it.

shiv
Message Received



NDA's can be pretty severe

Kurk

dadudemon

Robtard
Kurk,

I don't know how old he is, but he seems to be in his early 30's. He's just a very good dentist and admittedly, in a good/affluent location. It's also very possible he had/has family money backing him.

Anyhow, DDM summed up my previous general point above well. So listen to that.

The Ellimist
If you have the knack for it and we're only looking at earning potential / hours worked, software engineering might be the best profession to get into right now.

Of course, a lot of things matter other than that.

Surtur
The best solution is to get a job making robots until the robots replace you with other robots to build the robots.

By that point it won't matter. It's like discovering a nuke about to go off in 60 seconds: unless there is a refrigerator around to protect you...nothing you do matters.

Afro Cheese
Originally posted by dadudemon
It does nothing for you.



We are working on a swimming pool assembling project. Where some hardware and software assembles a swimming pool. And our client is Walmart. It will put countless people out of jobs who assemble swimming pools.


See, does nothing to actually let anyone understand it. All we need to understand is the robots will inevitably out-compete humans in the long run, leaving even the most advanced and accomplished among us obsolete and primed for extinction.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
All we need to understand is the robots will inevitably out-compete humans in the long run, leaving even the most advanced and accomplished among us obsolete and primed for extinction.

Troof.



It will happen even to me, a person who will be involved in making humans obsolete. But I would argue that I will be among the last "working humans."

cdtm
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Discuss.

Stop science?

AI advancement is to help workers, not replace them. Suuuuure it is.

cdtm
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/18/16495548/deepmind-ai-go-alphago-zero-self-taught

This is both fascinating and terrifying.

Go AI beats Go champion.

The game of Go has more positions then there are stars in the universe. Brute force is impossible, so this is a HUGE advancement.

cdtm
Kurk is right.

Times have changed. Younger people across the board have worse everything then the old guard did. Higher debt, worse retirement plans, MUCH stricter standards (Some business professionals admitted they wouldn't qualify for their own job, if forced to start over.)

And corner cutting is over the top, too.. Super markets have pulled those cardboard sleeves for their hot chickens to save money (A lawsuit waiting to happen, if a kid burns themselves..), tenured professors are being replaced by low paid adjuncts, general doctors are basically sweatshop workers now (Push in as many as they can, and run around like mad)

Low paid dentist chains" aren't exactly impossible, the way things are. The only people making money are those top 1% irreplaceables workers (The high paid genius's at Google and such, who are probably UNDERPAID for their true value), investors, and business executives savvy enough (read "corrupt"wink to game the system.

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