Valkorion vs. Nihilus

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Stigma
Both combatants in their prime.

Setting: Vjun

Starting distance: 100 feet


Who wins?

The Ellimist
Valkorion. I'd say Nihilus is on par with novel Vitiate, but by SWTOR Vitiate already has accolades putting him above Nihilus.

Of course, there's always the gigadrain but eh.

Azronger
Nihilus wins. Reasons: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/darth-nihilus-runs-the-vitiate-gauntlet-1919490/?page=1#js-message-19694903

Haschwalth
Valkorian, Nihilus is below Novel Revan at best.

Trocity
Valkorion.

AncientPower
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Valkorian, Nihilus is below Novel Revan at best.

Factually wrong.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by AncientPower
Factually wrong.

?

Haschwalth
There is no facts, other facts seem to support my stance.

AncientPower
The only claim for that is the Exile, yet the Exile states that Nihilus' power is literally impossible and unfathomable. Then not only does she say that, but when she actually meets Nihilus, she realizes he's far more powerful than she'd previously been led to believe. This was a starving Nihilus, obviously, so he's not even in his most powerful incarnation.

The line of logic is contradictory. Clearly she refers to his mastery of the Force, of which Nihilus has none.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Azronger
Nihilus wins. Reasons: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/darth-nihilus-runs-the-vitiate-gauntlet-1919490/?page=1#js-message-19694903
I will counter you there, don't worry.

Azronger
Not worried, no.

Haschwalth
Originally posted by AncientPower
The only claim for that is the Exile, yet the Exile states that Nihilus' power is literally impossible and unfathomable. Then not only does she say that, but when she actually meets Nihilus, she realizes he's far more powerful than she'd previously been led to believe. This was a starving Nihilus, obviously, so he's not even in his most powerful incarnation.

The line of logic is contradictory. Clearly she refers to his mastery of the Force, of which Nihilus has none.

She never sensed Nihilus in person when she made that comment, so she really had no context, to assume the amount of power one would wield to cause the death of Katarr. meaning you can't link it to Revan.

Tell me why would she think he is even more powerful as she believed if she was only force crushed by him, when he literally has drained a planet dry, lifted a ship out of a gravity well. Is TKing a couple people more impressive? sounds illogical.

Dude i'm pretty sure it was hard for Meetra not to feel Nihilus's full power try drain her, considering she was the target, it would be silly to think, she didn't feel a thing.

Also, it is stated in the Revan novel, and linked that his Mastery and strength came hand in hand, as stated by Nihilus, also it's stupid to think Nihilus has no mastery of the force aftering him using TK, at an insane level is silly.

Scourge Literally puts the context of command into Raw power
http://i.imgur.com/lLrAEYn.png


Pretty sure Ant has a good argument about, about command = Raw power.

Add that on top of Kreia's statements of Revan being regarded as "power", with Nihilus around, this was Mando wars Revan too, who grew more powerful as his darth incarnate and Reedemed/Novel version.

Haschwalth
Not to mention Revan surviving Novel Vitiate's full power, put's him within this realm of power. As Vitiate already had Marka ragnos potential(candidate to succeed him), pre absorbing a planet with 8,000 sith lords then continuously growing for the next 900 years in power.

SunRazer
Valkorion wins, yeah.

Freedon Nadd
Someone is so pissed off by Nihilus that he summoned The Vitiate Wank Support to demolish him. laughing

DarthAnt66
Valkorion might consume Nihilus' spirit ngl

Freedon Nadd
He cannot consume a living singularity.

Stigma
Nihilus's TK seems to eclipse Valkorion's.

Big N. may have an advantage through giga-drain that seems to be instantaneous, no?

The Ellimist
Isn't there a double standard with some people using the Valkorion = most powerful Force user to put him above prior Force users, but then discounting the same quote about Sidious being the most powerful dark sider because "what about the Ones!"?

Stigma
No. No double standard. Hope that clears that up.

AncientPower
Implying the Ones are Force users. Kek.

Haschwalth, I have no idea what the fvck you're talking about, but Nihilus was literally beyond Meetra's comprehension throughout the game. It's a clear contradiction to use her praise for Revan to rank him above Nihilus when the last time she ever saw him to measure his power was pre-Malachor V. Since then Nihilus' power clearly dwarfs the possibilities she concieved through prior experience, including the aforementioned Revan incarnation.

There's no argument there, nor does a feats comparison do you any favors.

Geistalt
Their species is literally called Force wielders. All the quotes about Darth Sidious claim that he was the most powerful Sith.

S_W_LeGenD
Any Force-user can be referred to as a Force-wielder. Galen Marek was stated to be a Force-wielder in the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia for example.

Geistalt
I'm just pointing out that they do use the Force.

Freedon Nadd
In the Revan novel it is stated that Revan's mastery of the Force is greater than any she has known. She doesn't know the extent of Nihilus' power, personally. She isn't familiar with him.
AP is right. She was talking about Revan's command of the Force.
Not to mention that Drew hated KotOR 2 and the Wound in the Force concept.

S_W_LeGenD
Revan's command of the Force would be vastly superior to that of Darth Nihilus. However, Darth Nihilus is powerful in a different context.

S_W_LeGenD
See my rebuttal in https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/darth-nihilus-runs-the-vitiate-gauntlet-1919490/?page=1#js-message-19694903

Not trying to lowball Darth Nihilus but certain things should be clear to all.

Haschwalth
Originally posted by AncientPower
Implying the Ones are Force users. Kek.

Haschwalth, I have no idea what the fvck you're talking about, but Nihilus was literally beyond Meetra's comprehension throughout the game. It's a clear contradiction to use her praise for Revan to rank him above Nihilus when the last time she ever saw him to measure his power was pre-Malachor V. Since then Nihilus' power clearly dwarfs the possibilities she concieved through prior experience, including the aforementioned Revan incarnation.

There's no argument there, nor does a feats comparison do you any favors.

So she just had no grasp on what power it took to pull off said feats, Revan never had a need to raze a planet via the force, in fact Revan killed only out of necessity, meaning he would never do such a thing. again, she had not felt Nihilus's power at the time of that quote meaning she has no grasp on what It took to do such a thing.
Thus it cannot be applicable to Revan.

And actually they do considering Revan believed at Vitiate's level of power he could pull off another Nathema type, without the ritual. Yet he fairly challenged him, on an uneven playing field, and still had futures with his victory.

Anyway, you Nihilus wankers love to ignore context of the Kotor series overall, (a God like being)was being/hinted hyped throughout Kotor 1 and 2, which turned out to be Vitiate, Kotor 3 or Revan's novel/Swtor. Meaning via context Vitiate is the ultimate sith, within the story, as proven with Revan/meetra's defeat. He contextually is the top character of the Series, Nihilus/Malak they were precursors to Vitiate, even chris states, the 3rd kotor would of reached, a Nihilus type playing field with shaping planets etc, which it sort of did in respect to Vitiate. Why would a side villian with in the context of the entires series be stronger than, the main.

Sorry but the Context, feats(Nathema/900 years in strength increase), and straight up accolades, favor Novel Vitiate, and in Return Revan, with him competing with Vitiate. Both who grow even stronger with the events of SWTOR.

NIhilus doesn't stand a chance tbh.

Haschwalth
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
In the Revan novel it is stated that Revan's mastery of the Force is greater than any she has known. She doesn't know the extent of Nihilus' power, personally. She isn't familiar with him.
AP is right. She was talking about Revan's command of the Force.
Not to mention that Drew hated KotOR 2 and the Wound in the Force concept.

http://i.imgur.com/55DtBVC.png
http://i.imgur.com/lLrAEYn.png

These seem to clearly indicate it was referring, that they go hand in hand.
AS Scourge clearly repeats it as Raw Power, after stating command/connection. Within context regarding to Meetras belief that scourge would gush over his power.

The Merchant
Traya talks about the "True Sith" who make the remnants of Revans Empire aka the Sith Triumaritive look like nothing.

Haschwalth
Originally posted by The Merchant
Traya talks about the "True Sith" who make the remnants of Revans Empire aka the Sith Triumaritive look like nothing.
And Revan/Malak shit on them, via starforge thumb up

AncientPower
FFS, the entire argument of Revan > Nihilus is based on Surik's POV.

Haschwalth
Originally posted by AncientPower
FFS, the entire argument of Revan > Nihilus is based on Surik's POV.
Add context of the story in it's entirety, and Kreia's comments on him being regarded as Power. And feats.(Vitiate)

Haschwalth
There is plenty of substance.

The Merchant
Vitiate is portrayed as Nihilus 2.0 tbqh.

AncientPower
Kreia states that Nihilus is transcendant and yet she believes his path to the dark side is nihilistic and empty. There's no power in what he does because it's never enough. She fully believes he's an embodiment of hunger who is destined to inevitably die. Revan is conventional raw power. Hence the difference.

Haschwalth
Originally posted by AncientPower
Kreia states that Nihilus is transcendant and yet she believes his path to the dark side is nihilistic and empty. There's no power in what he does because it's never enough. She fully believes he's an embodiment of hunger who is destined to inevitably die. Revan is conventional raw power. Hence the difference.

Nah, it's because she believes the power is not his to aim, or use anymore. Even though he harnesses an immense amount of Power.

AncientPower
"Power? Do you think so? No, there's no power in the strength that one possesses. And it's power controls him, not the other way around."

"It is an empty road to the dark side, that's why he and those like him must be stopped. And their teachings must never be learned again."

That's pretty damning evidence. Revan she considers most powerful because he's not like the others. His is real strength and the knowledge of how to correctly apply it. The Exile became her greatest student because she learned to live without the Force, and then in defeating her, becoming more powerful than her, she achieved what the others couldn't. Surik learned the higher mysteries without being beholden to flawed dogma. Just like Revan.

AncientPower
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'd say Nihilus is on par with novel Vitiate.

He isn't.

Nephthys
Meetra seems to really struggle with comprehending power Tbh.

AncientPower
It's confirmation nonetheless, Post-Nathema Vitiate > Nihilus by some degree.

Haschwalth
Originally posted by AncientPower
It's confirmation nonetheless, Post-Nathema Vitiate > Nihilus by some degree.

It's good when you start making sense.

AncientPower
Your argument for Revan > Nihilus doesn't.

Haschwalth
Originally posted by AncientPower
Your argument for Revan > Nihilus doesn't.
Nah it does, infact your quote literally supports my argument.
Think of Vitiate's Marka ragnos potential/on top of 900 's of growth, with the ritual, and still having to bring foward his full power(Charged force lightning), on an advantaged playing field with other advantages. to slightly overwhelm Revan.(Completely overwhelming Revan would of left him as a pile of ash) But he simply couldn't give out that miniscle amount of energy. Seriously i'd wager Revan>100 years after Ritual Vitiate.
and this only confirms Exar kun/Revan>Nihilus.

AncientPower
He had to bring about his power to force Revan out of using his lightsaber to repel his quick bolts. A few seconds of charging forced Revan to adopt a Tutaminis defensive but it completely overwhelmed him and he was left cooking on the ground, about to die. Both T3 and Surik had to interfere to save his life. The first time Revan faced him, with Malak in support, it wasn't even a fight. Vitiate swatted him and there was nearly no growth for Vitiate between those two engagements.

The Meetra statement also obviously refers to literal command of the Force, or she wouldn't have thought Nihilus surface wiping Katarr to be beyond the powers of Jedi. Only for her to realise that even a starved Nihilus was even more godly than that. Let alone Nihilus at full strength.

Haschwalth
Originally posted by AncientPower
He had to bring about his power to force Revan out of using his lightsaber to repel his quick bolts. A few seconds of charging forced Revan to adopt a Tutaminis defensive but it completely overwhelmed him and he was left cooking on the ground, about to die. Both T3 and Surik had to interfere to save his life. The first time Revan faced him, with Malak in support, it wasn't even a fight. Vitiate swatted him and there was nearly no growth for Vitiate between those two engagements.

The Meetra statement also obviously refers to literal command of the Force, or she wouldn't have thought Nihilus surface wiping Katarr to be beyond the powers of Jedi. Only for her to realise that even a starved Nihilus was even more godly than that. Let alone Nihilus at full strength.

He was put flat on his ass twice, then he realized mediocre attacks wouldn't suffice, And charged his lightning(building up his force power), Revan on a disavantaged Playing field had less time to channel his tutamini's to meet Vitiate's power, Vitiate with several advantages(More time to build up energy, DS nexus, Revan not in peak condition)then slightly overwhelmed him, Revan casually bent back Incinerating level Lightning at Nyriss incinerating her, think if he can do that with lightning a tier below him, You would think that Vitiate could with Revan, but he couldn't because Revan is within his tier.

Think about it this way, Nyriss can casually incinerate Humans, her lightning managed to break her barrier incinerating her, from when revan reflected that energy. Vitate only barely managed to overwhelm Revan's tutamini's, leaving a small enough amount of energy for Revan to physically tank, but when comparing it to lower tier force user, who have straight up incinerated their opponents, you would think Vitiate could do the same to Revan, but that is not the case.

Yeah the emperor was vulnerable to a ****ing Droid incinerating him, sort of indicates, his full power/attention was focused on Revan. Cute, don't even compare Mando Revan to Darth Revan/Kotor Revan let alone Novel Revan. He was Far more powerful than he was during then. That ain't an argument.

She felt NIhilus's full power try drain her, it would be near impossible for her not feel her opponent attacking her's strength.

She never knew, what sort of energy was required to be able to harness such a technique. This Circular reasoning of yours is annoying. already dealt with this.

darthbane77
Valkorion bests Nihilus, if somewhat narrowly. Depending on whether or not Valk is a Force Wound, which I believe he is.

S_W_LeGenD
@Haschwalth

An environment strong in the Dark Side does not negate Revan's strength. Revan is sort of unique in his ability to utilize both Light and Dark sides of the Force to his advantage.

I believe that Revan had edge over any Jedi in the setting where he fought Vitiate.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Valkorion bests Nihilus, if somewhat narrowly. Depending on whether or not Valk is a Force Wound, which I believe he is.
See my response in Comicvine thread.

Freedon Nadd
Originally posted by Haschwalth
http://i.imgur.com/55DtBVC.png
http://i.imgur.com/lLrAEYn.png

These seem to clearly indicate it was referring, that they go hand in hand.
AS Scourge clearly repeats it as Raw Power, after stating command/connection. Within context regarding to Meetras belief that scourge would gush over his power.

You just proved that Meetra was referring to Revan's Force Mastery and his knowledge and properly to apply it.
Anyways, by the time she faced him, he was extremely weakened.

And, Legend, where does it say that Revan can control both sides of the Force mutually at perfection? That's impossible. Either light or darkness would be more in his very being. One side would always 'dominate' a person. Yes, no one is perfect. You can have both light and darkness within you; but one will always dominate the other.

Freedon Nadd

AncientPower
She never assumes anything of the sort beyond the known fact that Tenebrae became far more powerful due to the ritual. Then the narrator itself says Vitiate became more powerful than Meetra could imagine.

JKBart
Valkorion's main interest is Drain area - in which he demonstrates the greatest mastery, indepth knowledge and personal developments. It's only logical to presume he may be one of the most knowledgeable people in anything surrounding that and he might posses what it takes to resist Nihilus.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
And, Legend, where does it say that Revan can control both sides of the Force mutually at perfection? That's impossible. Either light or darkness would be more in his very being. One side would always 'dominate' a person. Yes, no one is perfect. You can have both light and darkness within you; but one will always dominate the other.
Go through the novel and you will find evidence. Revan even demonstrated that kind of ability when he unleashed a blast of power on (unsuspecting) Vitiate, sending the opponent flying backward. Rare to see Vitiate being pushed in this manner since it is virtually impossible to budge him from his position under normal circumstances.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
And, Legend, where does it say that Revan can control both sides of the Force mutually at perfection? That's impossible. Either light or darkness would be more in his very being. One side would always 'dominate' a person. Yes, no one is perfect. You can have both light and darkness within you; but one will always dominate the other.

"Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form."

"He had learned to balance on the knife-edge between them, drawing on both the light and dark sides for strength."

"They contend that simultaneously knowing and embracing both the light and dark sides of the Force is possible, and point to Revan as potential proof."

LordOfTheLight
Doesnt Revan say that the dark side clouds his vision on Dromund Kaas? Indicating that he is still predominantly hindered by the nexus, isnt it?

Haschwalth
Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Doesnt Revan say that the dark side clouds his vision on Dromund Kaas? Indicating that he is still predominantly hindered by the nexus, isnt it?
Yeah, why?

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